Words sentences that are offensive

[CMX]

Please let me make clear that I am only interested in being alerted to any challenges to dog owning (as opposed to feeding) in Thailand. Unique to this nation.

I do not need a dog.

I do not ask for general information about caring for a dog.

My request is simply for information about any differences, once my dog has arrived, in keeping him here, from the point of view of his care and health.

In the U.S., for example, some owners use medicated dog collars against fleas and tics. I know nothing about such critters here. Tips about food would be welcome. I have no objection to hearing about vets with whom has had good experiences, and even kennels - though I prefer to avoid those. (From NON-commercial interests, of course).

But no general advice, please, as I am familiar with my dog and well studied (and successful) with dogs over (as it seems) wonderful centuries.

(I have had no luck finding this narrowly defined information doing searches.)

Many thanks!

Edited September 6, 2010 by CMX

[Nienke]

Animal hospital: Have good experience with Ban Mha ka Meaw: 053 205 155. With difficult cases I also go there and ask for Dr. Chakkrit, who's the owner. Dr. Ohn-usa, his wife and Dr. Piapong are also good. All have extensive practical experience and Dr. Chakkrit and Dr. Ohn-usa have studied in The States.

Ticks: epidemic here. Products on the market: Frontline, Revolution, Advantage, tick collars, tick powders of which I find only the brand TicTox effective, amitraz and bayticol which have to be mixed in water and then rinse the dog with it, ivermectin by injection. All products are effective only to a certain extent.

If despite these products your dog is still full of ticks: call in pest control to spray your house.

Also advisable to have your dog's blood tested every half a year. If positive for one of the tick diseases, then you probably catch it in the acute stage, which is still treatable with Ab's. Once chronic the only thing there's left to do is boost the dog's immune system and treat the acute flair-ups of the chronic disease.

Fleas: Mostly not found on well-cared for dogs. However, streetdogs can be full of them. All flea/tick products are quite effective against fleas.

Heartworm: epidemic. Prevention: ivermectin by injection and usually every two month, or monthly pills (brands Heartguard or Iversat). Although every two month is perfectly safe which is even indicated by the manufacturer of Hearguard.

Food: ALL food that can be found in the supermarket may say they contain the necessary nutrients, but that doesn't mean it is bio-available to the dog. Cheap and quality ingredients simply do not match. Better is to spend some more money on good brands, such as Nutro, Chicken Soup for the Dog Lover, Taste of the Wild, Premium Edge) or give home-made or raw meals. Science Diet and Eukanuba is also available here.

Infectious diseases: More common than in the States due to the many strays. However, as your dog is fully vaccinated it is supposed to be protected against these. Of course, caution is indicated, but being over-protective as in having to do the annual vaccinations can do more harm than good to your dog. Also giving the combined vaccines, like the 5-in-1 jabs, increases the chance on side-effects considerably. Research has shown that vaccinating the dog every 3 year with single vaccines and 4 weeks in between each jab is sufficient and much safer for the dog.

Rabies: still prevalent here. Annual vaccination obliged by law.

Taking dog out for walks: Difficult due to the many dogs on the street, owned or not. Places where you still can take your dog for a walk are Huay Tung Tao, and a National Park South of Chiang Mai of which I forgot the name.

[Amerifarang]

<FONT size=4>If I were you I would feed them nothing but the best food. Science Diet is my favorite from past experience! A healthy dog is a protected dog! Good luck!</FONT>

[thaimiller]

Nienke pretty much summed it up, also i would like to add the vets on Chiang Mai-Mae Jo road, just up from mee chok market before you get to the wawee coffee shop. I can't think of the name off hand but I have taken my dog there on numerous occcasions and have been very satisfied. There is also a pet food warehouse just a little further up the road next to the PTT service station that is very well stocked and cheaper that the usual supermarket outlets.

[lingnoi1977]

Sound advice/comments from Nienke.

I would add one thing. No matter how protected your dog is against all potential diseases, Thailand can throw up some beauties.

My dog was extremely well cared for back home and after a few months here she contracted a hepatic virus, not through neglect but from a sudden change in climate and surrounds. Although immunised against it, she must have picked up a different strain. The symptons were quite mild at first and easily missed for the inattentive.

My point is, look for changes in your dog's behaviour and condition no matter how mild.

[Nienke]

Nienke pretty much summed it up, also i would like to add the vets on Chiang Mai-Mae Jo road, just up from mee chok market before you get to the wawee coffee shop. I can't think of the name off hand but I have taken my dog there on numerous occcasions and have been very satisfied. There is also a pet food warehouse just a little further up the road next to the PTT service station that is very well stocked and cheaper that the usual supermarket outlets.

Vet clinic: Hong Hong Hong is think is the name.

Pet shop: there's a big pet shop, called Ran Raksath Overseas Petshop, on the superhighway, in between the Carrefour and the Makro and just before the Esso station and Tigerbeer's furniture shop. They have the quality brands I've mentioned before. Eukanuba can be purchased in many smaller petshops and at some vets, and Science diet can be purchased at many vet clinics and definitely at Ban Mha ka Meaw. Also Ran Raksath sells these two brands.

There's another big petshop in the parking lot of Airport plaza, it just changed owner, and I haven't been in the new place. But people say it's good.

[CMX]

Thanks to all, particularly Nienke of course. Incredibly informative.

Frankly, the information is not terrifically encouraging. My pooch, elegantly named Sam by yours truly, lives a pampered life in the U.S. now with my brother and his wife. They in turn have a Sadie and the dogs are friends. Because of their extended family, the dogs can lodge with a sister or daughter and enjoy visiting a Russell Terrier or a Wheaton. Sometimes three of them will take holidays together.

I mention all this because Sam is doubtless happier there than he would be with a disease here. So would I.

I am wondering if a Thai dog would be likely to be more immune to any risks (assuming all proper care, which is a given for me). I raise the question in part because of some orphan dogs I saw yesterday at Central Airport.

Please note that I never respond to solicitations - for adoption or anything else and ask only for disinterested and objective advice, based on facts or considerable experience.

[Nienke]

I think sometimes it is better to look at it from the dog's point of view. If you say Sam is happy there where he is now, maybe it's best for him to leave him there, how hard this may be on you. If Sam will be happier there or here is unknown till you bring him over. Then you can compare.

As for Thai dogs, there is still the survival of the fittest and they aren't stuffed full yet with vaccines, ab's, and other chemicals generation after generation (vaccines can change DNA) or over-bred, and therefore in general are stronger and with less hereditary diseases than the full-breds.

But, also in general, those that survive the puppy stage, live on the streets and have to fend for themselves most or all of the time, often don't get older then 5 years of age.

Those Thai dogs that are lucky, survive the puppy stage mainly on their own, and find themselves a caring home can easily become 12 to 15 years old in fairly good health.

However, as said before the ticks are epidemic here, and also many Thai dogs at least once in their lives show positive for one or more of these diseases, even those that have received monthly tick prevention.

Thai dog puppies are often quite out-going, quite intelligent, and love to explore, making their garden area quickly very boring, resulting in the disappearance of your beautiful garden or temporary disappearance of your dog en route in the neighborhood. Of course, training can help.

Providing a homeless dog with a caring home is very noble thing to do. Of course, the same thing applies as when looking for any dog: look around carefully and don't fall for a sad or pretty face at first sight. If you decide to leave Sam in the States and consider going the adoption route of a homeless dog, which can also be a full-bred, I suggest to pass by the shelter in Samoeng, or any temple for that matter, a few times before deciding which one to bring home.

I wish you good luck with your decision, as I assume it won't be easy on you.

[NancyL]

Consider, too, the process of bringing the dog into the country, from the dog's standpoint. We thought (for about 10 minutes) of bringing our dog with us from the U.S. and realized it is a nasty, long plane trip for people, so imagine how it would be in a box in the cargo hold without any understanding of why you were there. We started to find a home for our dog months before we left and she ended up in a very good situation. I visited her in her new home shortly before I left for Thailand. While she seemed happy to see me, she definitely didn't want to leave her new teenage kids and the other dogs. She seemed like a younger, more lively dog than she had been with just my husband and me.

Here we adopted a cat, but we took our time and let the right pet find us. A cat works much better with our current lifestyle.

[Tropicalevo]

Just two things to add, and if they are already covered - sorry.

Tropical climate takes some getting used to even for a human. Even if you live in air-con - you still have to go out. Asian dogs are used to the climate (and the local food).

When I had my dog in Bangkok, we had a problem with him for a short while and the vet asked if we fed the dog chicken liver from the local market. He said "Never feed your dog with liver from these markets - quite often the livers have chemicals in them to make them appear more fresh". (Hadn't come across that one before.) Sans chicken liver he lived to a ripe old age.

[CMX]

"I think sometimes it is better to look at it from the dog's point of view." - Ni

"Consider, too, the process of bringing the dog into the country, from the dog's standpoint." - Na

(Underlining mine.)

Well, it is not as if I didn't ask, but his responses were - noncommittal. He's always seemed more philosophic than people, men anyway, call it practical, more realistic than romantic. And he likes playing with Sadie, which in their condition is realistic but not romantic.

So I'm headed to the shelter tomorrow. It's the thought of the heat that did it - Sam bounds all around in the snow, thinks it is great; I think all of my dogs have and my parents almost lost one to the heat.

Thing is, should I get two? I mean, how would they feel?

Nienke, I have your postings from your site now and shall use them as the basis for health maintenance checklists. We may be visiting you for lessons in clickers. Again, serious thanks t'all.

Edited September 6, 2010 by CMX

[SadieMBeagle]

Nienke, you're the best I always learn something new from you!

As for Sam, what is best for him? Do you think he wants to be with you above all else? When I moved here, I knew it would be difficult on my dog, Sadie. But I also knew that she would be very upset if I got rid of her (and so would I!), and honestly that was never an option for me. So, the decision was made. She made it through the plane ride with some emotional distress, to be sure. And after we arrived I took her walking in the streets near my home and we were attacked by two Thai dogs. So, we learned our lesson.

But about a month after our arrival, Sadie was back to normal again. We live in a house with a big yard, and she loves to lay outside in the sun, which she didn't get much of in Seattle! And we recently adopted a sweet little Thai sister dog for Sadie (As NancyL said above, we took our time and let the right dog find us.)

In the end, this was the right decision for Sadie and me. As other posters above have mentioned, the decision is yours...though if you do end up bringing Sam, I think we've got enough farang dog here by now to organize a play group!

[isanbirder]

A crossbreed will tend to be stronger. Keep the jabs up-to-date, and worry about ticks, ticks and more ticks... and heartworm. Care-for-dogs will give you good advice (see their website).

[CMX]

I'm boosting my own thread as a report and to repeat my thanks for posters' help, which now has come into play. Sam stays with my brother and sister-in-law now, with their Sadie. They had there in their summer a grand time, often visiting the family cottage where they joined two other dogs who brought their families. Kids involved. Good time had by all.

And as I indicated in my last post, I've been in contact with Care for Dogs. At present, I'm fostering two dogs shown on their site as Bibi and Billy. No telling where fostering will go, but both are endearing in their ways. C4D has been wonderful with medical cards, charts, and so forth - as if I were a novice (which in Thailand, I AM). No market chicken livers for my charges!

But I'm using all your advice: Billy needs an escape-proof collar and Bibi a leash to allow her to range a bit - she's energetic. Where I live, walking on leashes is all that's done - lotsa purebred lapdogs or retrievers too - I've always preferred mutts. So I'm off to the "Overseas" store to extend my searches for equipment, if for no other reason than that I'd like to look at a Tigerbeer furniture store.

[Fishenough]

Infectious diseases: More common than in the States due to the many strays. However, as your dog is fully vaccinated it is supposed to be protected against these. Of course, caution is indicated, but being over-protective as in having to do the annual vaccinations can do more harm than good to your dog. Also giving the combined vaccines, like the 5-in-1 jabs, increases the chance on side-effects considerably. Research has shown that vaccinating the dog every 3 year with single vaccines and 4 weeks in between each jab is sufficient and much safer for the dog.

Rabies: still prevalent here. Annual vaccination obliged by law.

Cool information Nienke, thank you!

How about the quality of that frozen meat product sold as dog food at Makro and other large grocery stores? It appears to contain good amounts of other tissues besides meat, including some well ground bone pieces? Our dog go absolutely bananas when we cook the chicken flavor (no comparisons possible of how it's her favorite), but we don't let her live on it alone.

Cheers

[Nienke]

So I wrote a reply, almost finished, then buzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz and fai dap. GRrrrrrrrr.

Take 2:

I totally completely don't like these dog food frozen packages.

First: I have no idea what's in it. The price of a pack is fairly cheap, meaning there won't be many goodies in there as goodies are normally pricy per kilo. The goodies have the most bio-available nutrients for the dogs in there.

I suspect what's mostly in those packages is minced bones with fat, tissues, run-off meat and other stuff that people won't eat.

If you go to the frozen pork department in the Makro you can find minced bones. It looks pretty much the same, only now you know it's only the bones with the marrow (or at least you hope that what they write on the package is also actually in it).

Second: before I switched to feeding raw food to my dogs, almost 10 years ago, I also bought once such packages and cooked it. I could feel the *very* sharp pieces of bones. Now the general knowledge is to *never* feed cooked bones to a dog as it can splinter. These splinters can penetrate the intestinal wall and cause severe infection of which a dog can die in no time.

I rather buy meat, raw meaty bones, and organ meats where I can see what I buy and if it is still fresh.

In the Marko I rather don't buy raw pork meat because to me it looks too red. God knows what they put on it to make it that red. There I buy for the raw food eating dogs frozen duck (about 80b/k), partridge (about 130 b/k), crocodile meat scraps (90b/k), and last time they had goat ribs (about 135 b/k). Next to this they eat chicken, pork, buffalo and canned sardines or mackerel. Not raw fish as they rather go on hunger strike, the bastardo's.

The guest dogs eat, depending on the owners and dogs' preferences: raw or cooked food, food the owner brought or our food with or without a bit of meat soup or canned food.

[Thailand]

Our dogs are our dogs and basically family and we had no hesitation in bringing 3 of them from the west.One of them was originally from Thailand and then went to HK, off to the west and then back to Thailand. He had frequent flyer miles.

They had happy and healthy lives although all 3 are now under the tree at the bottom of our garden, I could not imagine leaving them behind anywhere.

Simply use your sense,check out the potential problems and deal with them.

Another friend brought 17 with him, yes 17! from abroad.