Emergency Declared In Thailand

[thaibebop]

alright. so exactly what do you guys think should be done about the pak tai situation?

i read this thread and all i see is "waah waah waah". just like everyone in the states whining and bitching about the patriot act and any number of other things that bush and the homeland security dept. have done in the last few years.

it`s really easy to criticize and complain. it`s a lot harder and infinitely more important to offer constructive suggestions.

so?

what do you do about the "terrorists", "insurgents", or whatever you decide to call them? what do they want? is it something that, if you were in thaksin`s position, you would be willing (and able) to give them? if not, then what? i think that if you guys start asking yourselves these questions, you might see why things down there have come to this...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many of us have talked about just that before and a lot of us agree that there is not much else one can do but get tougher. However, while most of us are willing to work with the govs we still need to be mindful that when this crap is over some laws need to be discarded. It's scary, who do you trust more and for how long? People need protection but what happens when the bodyguards won't go away?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

States of emergency and emergency laws by their definition are for that purpose i.e. an emergency which there now is in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what we hope for anyway. One should never trust laws too much, they are man made after all.

Edited July 16, 2005 by thaibebop

[Pattaya_Fox]

alright. so exactly what do you guys think should be done about the pak tai situation?

i read this thread and all i see is "waah waah waah". just like everyone in the states whining and bitching about the patriot act and any number of other things that bush and the homeland security dept. have done in the last few years.

it`s really easy to criticize and complain. it`s a lot harder and infinitely more important to offer constructive suggestions.

so?

what do you do about the "terrorists", "insurgents", or whatever you decide to call them? what do they want? is it something that, if you were in thaksin`s position, you would be willing (and able) to give them? if not, then what? i think that if you guys start asking yourselves these questions, you might see why things down there have come to this...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many of us have talked about just that before and a lot of us agree that there is not much else one can do but get tougher. However, while most of us are willing to work with the govs we still need to be mindful that when this crap is over some laws need to be discarded. It's scary, who do you trust more and for how long? People need protection but what happens when the bodyguards won't go away?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

States of emergency and emergency laws by their definition are for that purpose i.e. an emergency which there now is in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what we hope for anyway. One should never trust laws too much, they are man made after all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whether you trust them or not without them there would be anarchy throughout the world. In these times of violence and uncertainty better to have laws that will help to tackle these evil people than to worry about the temporary restrictions which may be imposed on certain individuals.

[ozzydom]

800 innocent people shot,beheaded or otherwise murdered in 18 months and some woosies call Thaksin a communist because he enacts laws that restrict peoples freedom, Dont you think that being afraid to venture out because some nutter may murder you isnt a restriction of freedom. I am no fan of the Prime Minister but draconion action is needed to sort out these animals. To ###### with civil liberties until the job is done.

[newworks]

alright. so exactly what do you guys think should be done about the pak tai situation?

i read this thread and all i see is "waah waah waah". just like everyone in the states whining and bitching about the patriot act and any number of other things that bush and the homeland security dept. have done in the last few years.

it`s really easy to criticize and complain. it`s a lot harder and infinitely more important to offer constructive suggestions.

so?

what do you do about the "terrorists", "insurgents", or whatever you decide to call them? what do they want? is it something that, if you were in thaksin`s position, you would be willing (and able) to give them? if not, then what? i think that if you guys start asking yourselves these questions, you might see why things down there have come to this...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Many of us have talked about just that before and a lot of us agree that there is not much else one can do but get tougher. However, while most of us are willing to work with the govs we still need to be mindful that when this crap is over some laws need to be discarded. It's scary, who do you trust more and for how long? People need protection but what happens when the bodyguards won't go away?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

States of emergency and emergency laws by their definition are for that purpose i.e. an emergency which there now is in Thailand.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what we hope for anyway. One should never trust laws too much, they are man made after all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whether you trust them or not without them there would be anarchy throughout the world. In these times of violence and uncertainty better to have laws that will help to tackle these evil people than to worry about the temporary restrictions which may be imposed on certain individuals.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

p. fox: i tend to agree. unfortunately, that choice has to be made at times, and these days it seems all too often. i have been watching the impressive speed with which the brits have been pursuing the london murderers and thinking to myself that the laws in the UK (which are considerably less restrictive towards law-enforcement than those in the states) are a big reason why they have made so much progress so quickly.

that, and the fact that they are f**king p**sed off.

i`d rather it didn`t come to a point in thailand where we find out what it takes to get the thai gov`t (much less the general populace) that angry. or are we there already?

[Ijustwannateach]

Gee, I can't see any similarities to the Marcos regime at all... nope, not me.

[VanZam]

Thats all very well, and I understand your point, although nobody has said what this law will change in the south...there has been martial law down there for quite some time already and yeilded zero results.

This new law(s) will offer nothing that could not have been achieved in the past, under a state of martial law.

And, Pattayafox....your putting alot of faith in lawmakers and the government, and in my opinion, with no good reason! This governmwnt harldy has a good reputation for good laws.

A university prof did a study of the laws (tax etc) passed last year... 90% of them affected only the shin corp and nobody else, your all entitled to your opinions, but I have zero faith in a government with so many internal interests.

[bangkokjedi]

I hope Bush isn't watching Thai TV.

Why?

After 9/11 Bush () did exactly the same.

With Patriotic act (USAPA) United States said goodbye to freedom.

Patriotic allow US government to seize library, medical, travel and other personal information of any American citizen, not just suspected terrorists. It allow US government to hold people for indefinite periods of time without charging them with a crime. It allow US government to issue secret subpoenas without probable cause. It allow US government the federal government to infiltrate legal political organizations that have no connection to terrorism. It allow US federal government to halt legal political protests.

By the way the Patriotic act has a lot similarity with Hitler's Ermächtigungsgesetz (Enabling Act).

So PM TaxiNoNightClub is just following other countries footsteps

Strange enough these terrorists acts give government leader super powers and freedom to do whatever they like in the name of national security..

Edited July 16, 2005 by bangkokjedi

[Pattaya_Fox]

Thats all very well, and I understand your point, although nobody has said what this law will change in the south...there has been martial law down there for quite some time already and yeilded zero results.

This new law(s) will offer nothing that could not have been achieved in the past, under a state of martial law.

And, Pattayafox....your putting alot of faith in lawmakers and the government, and in my opinion, with no good reason! This governmwnt harldy has a good reputation for good laws.

A university prof did a study of the laws (tax etc) passed last year... 90% of them affected only the shin corp and nobody else, your all entitled to your opinions, but I have zero faith in a government with so many internal interests.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I am not putting a lot of faith in this government, as I have said Thaksin and his government have done some stupid things. What I am saying is that in these violent times laws and special powers need to be enacted in order to fight these terrorists.

Obviously the Thai government felt that there were insufficient laws available to enable them to tackle this insurgent problem.

If the new laws help to sort some of these murderers out then the excercise in my opinion will have been worth it.

[Chua]

Anyone familiar with the Patriot Act in the US shouldn't be surprised by this move. Remember, Thaksin went to Yale and was in the same class with Dubya and guess who is Thailand's #1 trading partner!

When there's an oil crisis, what's the best solution? Distract, Distract, Distract!

Orwell eat your heart out.

[Chua]

800 innocent people shot,beheaded or otherwise murdered in 18 months and some woosies call Thaksin a communist because he enacts laws that restrict peoples freedom, Dont you think that being afraid to venture out because some nutter may murder you isnt a restriction of freedom. I am no fan of the Prime Minister but draconion action is needed to sort out these animals. To ###### with civil liberties until the job is done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, then, when the police tap your phone and mis-translate something you said, and throw you in jail for 3 years with no trial, we'll quietly wait on the sidelines while you get sorted out.

What people fail to realize is that such Draconian laws enable abuse of power, and given the rampant corruption in Thailand already, such Fascist rules are bound to hurt innocent, law abiding people.

Why do civil liberties and basic human rights like free speech need to be restricted in order to find criminals? All these things do is give the government more power and the people less.

[bangkokjedi]

Yale?

Bush and TaxiNoNightClub Skull and Bones blood brothers? sound funny!

[bangkokjedi]

OK, then, when the police tap your phone and mis-translate something you said, and throw you in jail for 3 years with no trial, we'll quietly wait on the sidelines while you get sorted out.

What people fail to realize is that such Draconian laws enable abuse of power, and given the rampant corruption in Thailand already, such Fascist rules are bound to hurt innocent, law abiding people.

Why do civil liberties and basic human rights like free speech need to be restricted in order to find criminals? All these things do is give the government more power and the people less.

I guess you need terrorist to allow governments to pass such laws............... when mass population are in fear they accept anything

[roamer]

Todays Bangkok Post makes clear that at least some of the laws apply nationwide. In particular any media coverage of events can be censored to the point of oblivion....not just the normal media control. That worries me.....lot of talk about the Brits bringing in new laws in the wake of the London Bombing....the above law ain't one of the proposed measures. Note also proposed, not imposed. Further, we are'nt about to give legal exemptions to any actions carried out by our security services. You can judge whether these laws are right or wrong for Thailand, but they don't bear comparisom with anything we have in the pipeline.

Concentrating power in the hands of an individual in what is, at best, a fledgling democracy, does strike me as somewhat dangerous. When that individual happens to be someone who tolerates critics badly if at all, has an unbridled desire for absolute power and also manages to create monumental foul ups ....guess I'm a little worried.

[sajal]

So much for peoples freedom....and a great excuse to bring in a law like this one.

What freedoms do Thai people have left, if the PM has control of mass media (not just his own newspapers now) and police can arrest anyone without charges.....

So long democracy....dictatorship, here we come.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

so whats new?

[amal2029]

Thousands will die in the coming weeks and all news will be censored.

Sounds like a dictarorship.

Maybe Thaksin is the new Saddam.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tell that to Bush. He'll have troops all over Thailand ready to free the people.

America the world police.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

may be all over patpong...

[jaloochapurr]

This Southern problem will eventually come to Bangkok, I really hope it don't, but Im not optomistic.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what worries me the most. That is where my in-laws are.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Me too My in-laws are there and in september I am flying to Hai Jai and will go to Satun. I just suppose I will have to stay in the family compound because there are also alot of Muslims in that province too. I am not really afraid about going there but my wife is concerned for me being there. Last time there. had no troubles but it seems that things are getting worse.

[jaloochapurr]

Anyone familiar with the Patriot Act in the US shouldn't be surprised by this move.  Remember, Thaksin went to Yale and was in the same class with Dubya and guess who is Thailand's #1 trading partner!

When there's an oil crisis, what's the best solution?  Distract, Distract, Distract!

Orwell eat your heart out.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No not correct He went to school at Eastern Kentucy Univ. where he got his B.A. and then to Sam Houston State in Texas where he got his M.A.

[jaloochapurr]

"Please don't intervene. Please leave us alone. It is my job and we can cope with this matter. We are trying to explain this to foreigners. But if they do not understand or ignore our explanation, I don't care because we are not begging them for food. This is what he said in May of 2004 about the way he was handling things. In my mind there is no way he is going to stop this. The people in the South want three provinces they can call their own. Since the man has taken over the country he has done nothing for the the South anyway. the roads are going to waste, there has been nothing done for the people of the south like Chuan Leekpai did. He was from the South and that is where the money went. Now the man from the north is in charge and see where the money goes, Night Safrai in Chinag Mai, what a Joke.

Give the muslims in the South the control of these three provinces and maybe will be on the road to peace, keep trying to destory their faith and they will be more and more trouble and Yes Bangkok and other places will become targets. This is most likely the only hope, Give into their demands. Three provinces and maybe there would be peace.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

"Please don't intervene. Please leave us alone. It is my job and we can cope with this matter. We are trying to explain this to foreigners. But if they do not understand or ignore our explanation, I don't care because we are not begging them for food. This is what he said in May of 2004 about  the way he was handling things. In my mind there is no way he is going to stop this. The people in the South want three provinces they can call their own. Since the man has taken over the country he has done nothing for the the South anyway. the roads are going to waste, there has been nothing done for the people of the south like Chuan Leekpai did. He was from the South and that is where the money went. Now the man from the north is in charge and see where the money goes, Night Safrai in Chinag Mai, what a Joke.

Give the muslims in the South the control of these three provinces and maybe will be on the road to peace, keep trying to destory their faith and they will be more and more trouble and Yes Bangkok and other places will become targets. This is most likely the only hope, Give into their demands. Three provinces and maybe there would be peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would have to disagree with your last statement of give into their demands. If we start giving in to everyone who thinks it's ok to kill and maim innocent bystanders then everyone with a gun, knife etc and with a gripe against someone or some decision that's been made or someones religious beliefs will think it's a green light to go out and start killing and maiming people to get what they want.

Not a great idea I do think!

[jaloochapurr]

"Please don't intervene. Please leave us alone. It is my job and we can cope with this matter. We are trying to explain this to foreigners. But if they do not understand or ignore our explanation, I don't care because we are not begging them for food. This is what he said in May of 2004 about  the way he was handling things. In my mind there is no way he is going to stop this. The people in the South want three provinces they can call their own. Since the man has taken over the country he has done nothing for the the South anyway. the roads are going to waste, there has been nothing done for the people of the south like Chuan Leekpai did. He was from the South and that is where the money went. Now the man from the north is in charge and see where the money goes, Night Safrai in Chinag Mai, what a Joke.

Give the muslims in the South the control of these three provinces and maybe will be on the road to peace, keep trying to destory their faith and they will be more and more trouble and Yes Bangkok and other places will become targets. This is most likely the only hope, Give into their demands. Three provinces and maybe there would be peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would have to disagree with your last statement of give into their demands. If we start giving in to everyone who thinks it's ok to kill and maim innocent bystanders then everyone with a gun, knife etc and with a gripe against someone or some decision that's been made or someones religious beliefs will think it's a green light to go out and start killing and maiming people to get what they want.

Not a great idea I do think!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes you make a good point about giving into the demands of people after they have protested with ways of killing and such. I was just trying to come up with ways to combat this problem withput more killing. Not to say that it will matter too much Thaksin will escalte the killing now just as did with the drug war.

[bangkokjedi]

Censor all news is a good move is the plan is to handle this like the war on drug...

[JAG]

1. Whether you like it or not, Taksin was elected a few months ago with a thumping majority. he is a democratic politician. with the support of the majority of the Thai people.

2, Given the bombings, drive by shootings, killing of teachers, civil serveants, monks and other innocents over the last 18 months, this seems a reasonable response to what is rapidly becoming an out of control situation.

3. Civil Rights are of limited interest when some bearded fanatic is sawing at your neck with a machete because you happen to be a primary school teacher!

Edited July 16, 2005 by JAG

[nikmcg]

I understand and have some sympathy with what is being said with regard to the emergency powers being suggested by the Thai govt. However these hopefully will only be short term measures.

Similar emergency powers are being discussed in Britain following the recent tube bombings. It is most likely these extra anti terrorist laws will be in place before the end of this year.

Perhaps if they had been in place prior to the bombings, maybe they could have been prevented? What is known is that an individual with known links to Al Queda was allowed to enter Britain through a ferry port, two weeks prior to the bombings and that this person left just one day before they took place.

My point is that whilst none of us like to see our cival liberties being infringed, surely a government has a duty to offer safety and security to its law abiding citizens, and that in an emergency situation this must surely take priority

Thailands' prime minister does seem largely to be unpopular with the Thai Visa forum members, but Thai people I speak to think he's doing a good job for them under difficult circumstances. Unrest in the South, Bird Flu, Tsunami, Oil Prices.

I was hoping that with the governments' offer of increased funding for education and job creation in the South, that this may help to ease tensions. Given the demands of a small minority of extremists seeking independence from Thailand this is unlikely.

It seems to me that the only peaceful solution is for the Thai govt to offer inclusion to those who feel excluded as the British govt had to do in N Ireland. Tensions clearly remain there but progress has been made.

[trigz]

Unfortunately I cant see any improvement to come as a result of the PM's new powers. The opportunity to sort out the problem should have occurred in the early stages when the perpetrators were less organized; the current assaults would now suggest a pretty well organised militant set up is in place.

If I remember correctly, the strife first emerged shortly after the established southern force was disbanded and replaced by a 'more efficient arangement' as devised by you know who.

Sorry to be negative on this, I hope I can be proved to be wrong.

[bggg]

I agree that something needs to be done. However Thaksin ,as has been said before in this post, has always wanted to censor the media and take things over the top with control. He has always been power hungry and now...well he has the power. Why did he win an overwhelming victory...because he is a master manipulator, for his own gains. He bounces off the walls with his approaches as well as his off the hip comments. There appears to be no long term thought nor logic to the man. I agree whole heartedly with the comment about how dangerous this is in a flengling democracy still full of corruption.

[ozzydom]

800 innocent people shot,beheaded or otherwise murdered in 18 months and some woosies call Thaksin a communist because he enacts laws that restrict peoples freedom, Dont you think that being afraid to venture out because some nutter may murder you isnt a restriction of freedom. I am no fan of the Prime Minister but draconion action is needed to sort out these animals. To ###### with civil liberties until the job is done.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

OK, then, when the police tap your phone and mis-translate something you said, and throw you in jail for 3 years with no trial, we'll quietly wait on the sidelines while you get sorted out.

What people fail to realize is that such Draconian laws enable abuse of power, and given the rampant corruption in Thailand already, such Fascist rules are bound to hurt innocent, law abiding people.

Why do civil liberties and basic human rights like free speech need to be restricted in order to find criminals? All these things do is give the government more power and the people less.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you had bothered to read the News Release properly you would see that it is intended to implement the Emergency Act in the Provinces of Pattani,Yala and Narathiwat. Some of you bleeding hearts really take the cake,The press is censorred all over the world in times of emergency ,one of the reasons may be to prevent statements like yours from being aired.

Remember this is Thailand and for better or worse it is governed by a democratically elected Parliament and we are merely guests and IMHO guests should not criticise their hosts. If you find it untenable you have the opportunity to go elsewhere,The real people suffering at the hands of the extremists do not have that luxury.

[Tornado]

Also remember he paid for his votes in the first election, he WAS NOT elected, he paid 300 baht per vote in many parts of Thailand - he bought his power and he is out of control. He also has no power amongst the people in the south via elections - he loses down here constantly. If you cannot win via a democratic vote, you use force/propoganda if you have the power - we see it everyday all around the world.

As I mentioned nearly 2 years ago on this forum, he also is trying to clear people out of the area, where he has a partnership with the Malaysian Kings son, to run a gas pipeline from Malaysia to Thailand. Just wait and see if it makes the news in the next year or so.

[Davey]

"Please don't intervene. Please leave us alone. It is my job and we can cope with this matter. We are trying to explain this to foreigners. But if they do not understand or ignore our explanation, I don't care because we are not begging them for food. This is what he said in May of 2004 about  the way he was handling things. In my mind there is no way he is going to stop this. The people in the South want three provinces they can call their own. Since the man has taken over the country he has done nothing for the the South anyway. the roads are going to waste, there has been nothing done for the people of the south like Chuan Leekpai did. He was from the South and that is where the money went. Now the man from the north is in charge and see where the money goes, Night Safrai in Chinag Mai, what a Joke.

Give the muslims in the South the control of these three provinces and maybe will be on the road to peace, keep trying to destory their faith and they will be more and more trouble and Yes Bangkok and other places will become targets. This is most likely the only hope, Give into their demands. Three provinces and maybe there would be peace.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To simply give into terrorism is absolutely ludacris, these people have no respect for humanity or democracy, giving into the people is not an option. They will not stop until there ideology is met, and that certainly won't stop at just those three southern provinces.

[jaloochapurr]

Also remember he paid for his votes in the first election, he WAS NOT elected, he paid 300 baht per vote in many parts of Thailand - he bought his power and he is out of control. He also has no power amongst the people in the south via elections - he loses down here constantly. If you cannot win via a democratic vote, you use force/propoganda if you have the power - we see it everyday all around the world.

As I mentioned nearly 2 years ago on this forum, he also is trying to clear people out of the area, where he has a partnership with the Malaysian Kings son, to run a gas pipeline from Malaysia to Thailand.  Just wait and see if it makes the news in the next year or so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So right.The people in the south hate him. ust in MSN with female from Hai Jai and people are not at all happy with the man Thaksin. He just gave away free rubber saplings and my in-laws who do rubber in the south did not get a single plant. Rubber in the north, what a joke.

[patekatek]

Given the terroristic history of the Muslim extremists in Thailand and other parts of the world, and the fact that they have declared a "Holy War" against just about the rest of the free world, what harm would it cause to declare war against these elements in one's country?

Unfortunately, these sub-human, brainwashed, and intolerant elements of society will not go away. Even if Thailand were to say "OK, you can have your autonomy and a "chunk of land", these people would not stop there. Afterall, their neighbors would have TV's, read documents other than the Koran, and the women would dress in "Evil Western" clothes and expect to be treated as humans. This would be reason enough for them to bomb more innocent people in the name of their God. (good enough reason to be an athiest)

One astute educator wrote an article where he compared the dedication and mentality of the Muslim extremists to that of a mother who would give her life to save the life of her child and the only way to have a positive impact on the terrorists is to get to the cleric "brainwashers" themselves. When a government or normal society is dealing with this mentality how do you reach a peaceful end?

I don't have a clue what would resolve this conflict and I would challenge anyone, especially the people who are guests in Thailand and criticize every move Taksin makes, to offer a plan that would work. I do not agree with the absolute power given PM Taksin but at some time a government has to take some action, even if it includes what Taksin wants to do.

How many falang are now considering leaving Thailand because of Taksin's position? How many of you are seriously worried that you are going to be arrested for no reason or otherwise negatively affected by the current situation?

Enough said. Also, I would like to offer my sympathy to our English friends for the death and destruction caused in London.