Islam Praying Singing At 05.00 Am

[StevieH]

It's a religion and therefore by default you are expected to 'tolerate' it. If you don't then you are seen as a bigot. Sadly that's just the way it is now. People feel very worldly wise and superior in telling us this. I'm not sure how far this goes and what constitutes a religion worthy of respect and what is just nonsense. If a religion is founded on child abuse do we give that respect? If one religion includes hating one of the others do we respect that one, and if so where does that leave the one which is hated?

If evil actions are committed due to misunderstanding and poor interpretation of a religion how is it we don't see the same happening with Buddhism or Hinduism all over the world? I have yet to see a bombing in Europe carried out by someone misunderstanding Mormonism.

it's a rather good job bombs and gunpowder hadn't been invented in the crusades then isn't it?

[Thakkar]

I feel for you, the call to prayer is the most obnoxious noise pollution I've ever heard. But for your own personal safety, don't do anything yourself or try to express your annoyance. Either move, or wait until the locals get tired off it and make them turn it down, which may never happen.

With respect, consider this: it is your notions of Islam that makes the call to prayer appear obnoxious to your ears. If you could somehow discard those notions (for the sake of your own sanity if nothing else), the adhan may trouble you much less.

I don't subscribe to the notion that religions should be afforded unmitigated respect 'just because'. Religious ideas should be afforded the same treatment as any other ideas: open to challenge, argument and even ridicule. But these challenges have to be, for lack of a better term, sincere, and not based upon bigotry. Because the people who practice whatever religion they practice are fellow humans deserving of some consideration and respect, their seemingly delusional (to non-believers) practices notwithstanding.

Scratch below the surface of much of anti-muslim banter couched in defense of women's rights and whatnot, and one finds that bigotry is the real leitmotif. It is hard to define, but one knows it when one sees it, unless, of course, one is mindlessly practicing it oneself.

My mother, a devout Hindu, found it quite objectionable that beef was being sold in close proximity to the vegetables she wanted to buy. But because she wanted to continue living where Hindus were in a minority, she learned to accept things and blocked out what disturbed her. Religious people live with secular disturbances on a daily basis, for example billboards with scantily clad models (visual pollution to their sensibilities).

In other words, Live and Let Live., even if sometimes it means putting up with certain disturbances.

Edited September 14, 2010 by Thakkar

[jayjay0]

yeah that's it. Catholic's are .8% of population of Thailand.

interesting reading

Religion in Thailand

It might only be 0.8% of the population - but I seem to bump into missionaries everywhere I go.

They are Christian missionaries and do not in any way push there lives on us at 5:00 in the morning. Unfortunately we are saddled with a religion that cares nothing for there neighbors only for themselves and even at that they have no problem blowing each other up. Religious freedom is like free speech it allows every half wit to push themselves on to the honest hard working citizens.

Perhaps if you didn't go into Catholic church's you would meet a lot less of them.

[Thakkar]

5am... Ugh.

I think that it would be better for the mosque to move towards an SMS system to registered users. The SMS could be sent at the appropriate times for all who wish to receive. Simple and easy solution.

TheWalkingMan

That's actually a pretty cool idea.

[Richb2004v2]

It's a religion and therefore by default you are expected to 'tolerate' it. If you don't then you are seen as a bigot. Sadly that's just the way it is now. People feel very worldly wise and superior in telling us this. I'm not sure how far this goes and what constitutes a religion worthy of respect and what is just nonsense. If a religion is founded on child abuse do we give that respect? If one religion includes hating one of the others do we respect that one, and if so where does that leave the one which is hated?

If evil actions are committed due to misunderstanding and poor interpretation of a religion how is it we don't see the same happening with Buddhism or Hinduism all over the world? I have yet to see a bombing in Europe carried out by someone misunderstanding Mormonism.

it's a rather good job bombs and gunpowder hadn't been invented in the crusades then isn't it?

Oh not the crusades again! Do I really need to explain to you that the crusades were a very long time ago. Jesus Christ on a bike! The crusades he says!

[StevieH]

It's a religion and therefore by default you are expected to 'tolerate' it. If you don't then you are seen as a bigot. Sadly that's just the way it is now. People feel very worldly wise and superior in telling us this. I'm not sure how far this goes and what constitutes a religion worthy of respect and what is just nonsense. If a religion is founded on child abuse do we give that respect? If one religion includes hating one of the others do we respect that one, and if so where does that leave the one which is hated?

If evil actions are committed due to misunderstanding and poor interpretation of a religion how is it we don't see the same happening with Buddhism or Hinduism all over the world? I have yet to see a bombing in Europe carried out by someone misunderstanding Mormonism.

it's a rather good job bombs and gunpowder hadn't been invented in the crusades then isn't it?

Oh not the crusades again! Do I really need to explain to you that the crusades were a very long time ago. Jesus Christ on a bike! The crusades he says!

yes, the crusades where christianity sought to wipe islam from the face of the earth and convert all of its followers to the holy roman church. i am aware when they took place as it goes. though i think the metaphor may have sailed over your head somewhat.

and bikes weren't invented when jesus christ was allegedly knocking about. that too was a long time ago. see there's another thing i don't need explaining.

[jdinasia]

It does appear that the FOX News watchers are out in force in this thread.

For the majority of my years in Thailand I have lived in mostly Muslim areas. I find the call to prayer to be beautiful. People like the OP that whine about it instead of closing their windows just don't make any sense to me.

People that go off on a tirade about Islam instead of just addressing the issue of noise from a particular mosque (or temple, or bar, or intersection etc etc etc in Thailand) simply come off as bigots.

[StevieH]

Scratch below the surface of much of anti-muslim banter couched in defense of women's rights and whatnot, and one finds that bigotry is the real leitmotif. It is hard to define, but one knows it when one sees it, unless, of course, one is mindlessly practicing it oneself.

excellent comment.

In other words, Live and Let Live., even if sometimes it means putting up with certain disturbances.

and again. it's not a complicated concept is it? live and let live and also if you're not a fan of noise don't move into a condo from whose balcony you can see minarets.

[Richb2004v2]

It's a religion and therefore by default you are expected to 'tolerate' it. If you don't then you are seen as a bigot. Sadly that's just the way it is now. People feel very worldly wise and superior in telling us this. I'm not sure how far this goes and what constitutes a religion worthy of respect and what is just nonsense. If a religion is founded on child abuse do we give that respect? If one religion includes hating one of the others do we respect that one, and if so where does that leave the one which is hated?

If evil actions are committed due to misunderstanding and poor interpretation of a religion how is it we don't see the same happening with Buddhism or Hinduism all over the world? I have yet to see a bombing in Europe carried out by someone misunderstanding Mormonism.

it's a rather good job bombs and gunpowder hadn't been invented in the crusades then isn't it?

Oh not the crusades again! Do I really need to explain to you that the crusades were a very long time ago. Jesus Christ on a bike! The crusades he says!

yes, the crusades where christianity sought to wipe islam from the face of the earth and convert all of its followers to the holy roman church. i am aware when they took place as it goes. though i think the metaphor may have sailed over your head somewhat.

and bikes weren't invented when jesus christ was allegedly knocking about. that too was a long time ago. see there's another thing i don't need explaining.

Jesus is everywhere, and riding a bike was and is not beyond his powers. See.

[jdinasia]

Scratch below the surface of much of anti-muslim banter couched in defense of women's rights and whatnot, and one finds that bigotry is the real leitmotif. It is hard to define, but one knows it when one sees it, unless, of course, one is mindlessly practicing it oneself.

excellent comment.

In other words, Live and Let Live., even if sometimes it means putting up with certain disturbances.

and again. it's not a complicated concept is it? live and let live and also if you're not a fan of noise don't move into a condo from whose balcony you can see minarets.

An amazingly clear concept ... but honestly if you are so set in your ways that you cannot adjust to noise at all then Thailand simply isn't the place to live! It doesn't have to be call to prayer. It can be construction, a new nightclub, temples ... you name it. Thai people seem far more willing to let other Thai people lead their own lives without crying about it incessantly. A friend of mine bought a condo here and for 2 years had construction going on next to him. A car park went in at a temple on one corner of his unit and then when that finished new condos went up at the other corner of his unit. Life went on

[cmsally]

Actually I think you will find that Thais complain a lot about noise too. One of my friends is taking the local Karaoke bar to court about constant noise 6pm to the small hours.

Its interesting to see the views on tolerance because a lot of local people I know view too much tolerance as a recipe to getting stepped on.

Most people here are quite pragmatic in that some noise is necessary but some is plainly taking advantage of others. Normally it takes just one person to speak out and then if there's a genuine grievance it snowballs.

[singa-traz]

To the OP, I empathise with you. BUT we can not change the ways of the locals and it will be decades before effective noise-pollution laws will come to LOS. As other posters said, Thais have an amazing ability to block out noise and we need to learn to do that also. Funnily, now that I have decided to NOT fight the noise polluters, but to block out the noise, as much as I can, I started to sleep a bit better already.

Noise Pollution laws do exist in Thailand, and some documents can be found here: Pollution Control Department

What is lacking is effective enforcement, but if you really want, you can get them to be enforced (however, maybe not as fast as you wish).

For several months, our neighborhood has suffered from an open air bar, opening from 18h00 to 02h00, far more damaging than any call for prayer.

The curfew in May provided much relieve to our small communities, and I would have voted its extension indefinitely, just to enjoy the calm of the nights.

A police report, a few visits to the local district, a letter to PDC and a few but long weeks later, the bar is now closed/gone.

Obviously success is not always guarantee, but progress can be achieved in any situation, provided you follow some simple rules.

To come back to the OP, maybe he could record us the call for prayer, so we can assess the noise level ... at 1km, the call must be very loud to wake up somebody, or maybe the OP is very sensitive to prayer's call.

[cmsally]

The problem being one persons hate crime or religious intolerance is another's freedom of expression. For most people what others do in their cliques, groups etc. is their own business; it is when they infringe on others people's liberties that you have problems. When you have one group that insists it has a right to infringe on another's freedoms, surely that is an act of repression and the natural reaction is to defend your freedoms. To say that one group has the higher moral ground in that it is acting in the name of religion, is a slippery slope indeed.

[orang37]

We'd like to express our appreciation for the voices of "wisdom," "sanity," "tolerance," and "kindness" on this thread of Khuns Anguid, CMX, Cmsally, Gotlost, Jdinasia, McGriffith, Pun Pun, Sparkles, Taurus88, Thakkar, and Uptheos.

Your voices are the ones we remember

One comment on the statement: "Thais have an amazing ability to block out noise and we need to learn to do that also."

While we do believe that non-reactivity to stimuli is a behavioral manifestation deeply influenced by Thai culture and the entire socialization process (typically people always in groups, often little "physical privacy" in the western sense of that word, the deep inculcation of cultural-modal values of "jai yen," and "mai phen rai," etc.) ... that does not mean they are, physiologically any different, ear-wise, or any other-wise, and that their hearing is not damaged frequently.

A recent study found one in five American adolescents has hearing loss: Teen Ears in the USA

A few years ago, in his annual speech, HM King Bhumipol made a direct statement of his concern about loss of hearing in Thai children, and people in general.

An American friend of ours with a Ph.D. in Audiology commented to us in an e-mail over a year ago regarding what he saw as the causes of extreme hearing loss in Thailand:

"Poverty, inability to seek out intervention Lack of education in regards to hearing care etc. Easy access to ototoxic medications. Considering even Asprin can harm your hearing, I would imagine folks can get dosed with the hard hitting meds that can really rip up the hearing over here. Loud chaotic life style. Exposure to ototoxic chemicals with out any intervention or saftey mechanisms (gasoline, carpet glue and more other common products damage hearing). I once tested a husband and wife team of workers that worked at a facility that grows flowers etc. Turns out the pesticides also killed their hearing."

Other plausible hypotheses for ear damage in Thailand would be: mobile-phone use; extensive use of in-ear headphones.

Very recent reportage in the Nation mentioned a decline in average intelligence of Thai school-children, blaming it on "iodine deficiency:" Loss of IQ Thai children

Could this also be linked to hearing loss ?

best, ~o:37;

[Richb2004v2]

A few years ago, in his annual speech, HM King Bhumipol made a direct statement of his concern about loss of hearing in Thai children, and people in general.

best, ~o:37;

I remember it well. The BiB were dashing about forcing bars and clubs to turn down the volume. I wouldn't like to guess how long it lasted.

[gotlost]

WHAT???

[sbk]

And on that note, and considering the amount of moderation this thread has required. I see no reason to continue with a thread that brings out every racist inflammatory and intolerant poster around.

//CLOSED//