Thai Supreme Administrative Court Rejects NTC's Appeal Against 3G Injunction

[rich54321]

What knobheads!!!!!! a backward step - i was on 3G 7 years ago in the UK sending pictures to picture desks all over the UK - this is a backward step - but no suprise there

[livinthailandos]

I'll give you the real run down with TOT, CAT, and this whole issue with 3G, due in part from Nation paper and a few other websites that make things more clear

lets look at TOT & CAT

Both TOT & CAT are state enterprises, they are under political influence. Their boards of directors are filled with government officials and political appointees.

CAT and TOT have been earmarked for privatisation for years, but the process gets nowhere. It is fair to say that once they go public, good governance must be in place to lure investment, with representation from the private sector. But who will invest in a privatised entity that is not totally free from political interference?

Why won't CAT, TOT let 3G happen the real reason below

At present, private mobile-phone companies in Thailand operate second-generation mobile phone services under concessions granted by either TOT or CAT Telecom that require revenue sharing of around 20%-30% with the state firms. The new 3G license will require an annual fee of only 6% of their revenues.

hope this provides a better understanding and answer

[golferchin76]

We are now in september 2010. More or less 12 years ago the EU made a decision that all EU-member states should have the possibility of 3G services before january 1, 2002. I got my first 3G-subscription 2003 and Stockholm and Oslo have had 4G (rather 3,9G with download speed of 100 Mb/s and upload speed of 50 Mb/s) for the last 10 month. I can see several reasons for the slow roll out of mobile data in this country. One of them is that the land line based ISP's can't deliver as fast connections as 3G can (in Sweden I get 20 Mb/s down on 3G when i use iPhone as a tethered modem via Bluetooth). In Bkk I get most of the time old dial-up modem speed (256 Kb/s) with TOT and some of the time I get zip. <div><br></div><div>If 3G licenses where to be auctioned to other telecom companies the ADSL customers of TOT, True, 3BB etc would leave like lemmings and then they have to invest gazillions of THB in new infrastructure to stay competitive. So wouldn't it be nice to wait another couple of years for this soon obsolete technology so that the ISP's can suck us ADSL customers dry by delivering inferior internet connections but still charge for premium service? <div><br></div><div>As a reflection on pricing and service my old man just got communal water to his farm in rural Sweden. The city counsel, who are in charge of connecting the pipes to the grid, asked if my dad wanted a fiber thrown in while they were digging the ditches anyway, at self cost for the fiber. He said yes and has now a 100/100 Mb/s fiber optics connection straight in to his PC and pays 1.000 THB/m for it. A DVD-movie takes 5 min to download. Here it takes a week.</div></div>

No offense intended friend, and to others who read my post. Let's have another perspective, you do understand that fortunately as well as unfortunately you and all who comment in this thread live in Thailand? It is another country totally different from let's say industrialized developed countries? Here you live in a place like a wild wild west and enjoy and risk certain things you can't compare to Sweden. For example cheap prostitution and nice young, but foolish, girls in the rural area s(that's what some are here for), great food, nice friendly rural population who smile all day long and will stab you in the back if you don't pay attention. It is easy to start a business here if you are smart enough and you can choose to pay almost no tax, a place where almost all the government projects work half efficiently as they were originally designed to? (airport, airport link, motorway pavement, automated toll collection, etc, etc.)

I've been here for more than 22 yrs, since I was 12 yrs old. I realized that living here is actually good, for sure not the best place in the world, but it is a great place. It is pretty easy to make money here, and pay almost no tax. I can't imagine myself letting the government get half of my profit as income tax while also pay horrendous amounts of tax on almost everything I buy, and that government still fcuks up, like Iceland, UK, and countries in EU. I've been to many modern countries I know ultimately it is no better there, you don't get to live happier, ultimately, because each country has it's own sets of problems.

Since the yellow shirt fiasco I shut myself from local news (not all, but 80%-90%), and you know what, the quality of my life have improved ever since! I am not saying that I choose to be an ignorant, because instead I pay attention to things that happen outside of this country. It is just not worth it to get all worked up by this country's politics, problems. The country has progress over the years, at it's own unique cripple-like brain damage speed, and will be this way for a long time, should I say FOREVER? That's why this is an ASEAN member, a backward region where the economic output of the whole region is less than that of a state in the US. It is a pathetic country from the start (they called it 3rd word 20 years ago), before civilization touched the region. The culture and the people are not made for advanced standards, otherwise, it would be the other way around. It is a place where men, feel no special pride when they say they are "Thais". Unlike the Koreans and Japanese and Chinese, just to give an example.

I am as frustrated as everyone else on this forum, about every brain-dead fiasco we see on the news. But seriously, life here is much more than that. The beauty of this country is not on the newspaper or TV forum. It is out there once you step outside of the capital (ok, you can find happiness in the capital but the terrific traffic jam and many evil things cancel that out).

Get a nice Thai girlfriend, travel to Kho Tao, North provinces, or places of the like. Try to stay away from the news, we will all be much happier. Hey, at least we have the slowest ADSL in the region that still works, and 2.5g service here, and they are not expensive.

Sam.

[golferchin76]

What a backwards country we are living in. By the time they sort this out, Laos and Cambodia will be on 4G. Absolutely zero interest in the wellbeing of the public.

Welcome to Amazing Thailand!

Bureaucracy, greed, corruption and fear always stops progress.

I think we need a foreigner prime minister with full arm body guard to take Thailand out of the stone age.

we we have a foreigner prime minister now but its not helping much

Yes, but although he was born, raised and educated in England UK, he learnt absolutely nothing !

Yes, absolutely, it's because he was born, raised and educated in England UK!

[golferchin76]

Amazingly backward thinking. I now live in Vietnam after more than a decade in Bangkok. My guess is Saigon is taking over Bangkok is less then 5 years.

Already now there is free internet everywhere - and its fast - I see more I-Phones daily than I ever saw in Bangkok, not # 3 but the newest #4 and 3G is launched as well, but does need some adjustment to work effectively.

Thailand is once again showing their incredibly special sense of "logic"... :-)

Hey there, you live in Vietnam but you come back to check on what Thailand is about? Don't you have a Vietnam Visa Forum there?

As far as I know, Vietnam is so backward and corrupted, a very bad place to conduct business, you can't hope to compare it to Thailand. It doesn't attract the amount of FDI compare to Thailand. Yes it is progressing so fast at a speed, because it never progressed before :-) You should see how fast Thailand was progressing 20 years ago, and it did that for a many years.

Vietnam catching up Thailand in 5 years? I don't like what I see in Thailand but I have to say what have you been smoking there :-)

[livinthailandos]

No offense intended friend, and to others who read my post. Let's have another perspective, you do understand that fortunately as well as unfortunately you and all who comment in this thread live in Thailand? It is another country totally different from let's say industrialized developed countries? Here you live in a place like a wild wild west and enjoy and risk certain things you can't compare to Sweden. For example cheap prostitution and nice young, but foolish, girls in the rural area s(that's what some are here for), great food, nice friendly rural population who smile all day long and will stab you in the back if you don't pay attention. It is easy to start a business here if you are smart enough and you can choose to pay almost no tax, a place where almost all the government projects work half efficiently as they were originally designed to? (airport, airport link, motorway pavement, automated toll collection, etc, etc.)

I've been here for more than 22 yrs, since I was 12 yrs old. I realized that living here is actually good, for sure not the best place in the world, but it is a great place. It is pretty easy to make money here, and pay almost no tax. I can't imagine myself letting the government get half of my profit as income tax while also pay horrendous amounts of tax on almost everything I buy, and that government still fcuks up, like Iceland, UK, and countries in EU. I've been to many modern countries I know ultimately it is no better there, you don't get to live happier, ultimately, because each country has it's own sets of problems.

Since the yellow shirt fiasco I shut myself from local news (not all, but 80%-90%), and you know what, the quality of my life have improved ever since! I am not saying that I choose to be an ignorant, because instead I pay attention to things that happen outside of this country. It is just not worth it to get all worked up by this country's politics, problems. The country has progress over the years, at it's own unique cripple-like brain damage speed, and will be this way for a long time, should I say FOREVER? That's why this is an ASEAN member, a backward region where the economic output of the whole region is less than that of a state in the US. It is a pathetic country from the start (they called it 3rd word 20 years ago), before civilization touched the region. The culture and the people are not made for advanced standards, otherwise, it would be the other way around. It is a place where men, feel no special pride when they say they are "Thais". Unlike the Koreans and Japanese and Chinese, just to give an example.

Sam.

Totally agree with all 3 of those paragraphs very true and thanks for making things very obvious and more clear especially to me, don't remember when I've really read anything close to what you've just posted

[animatic]

My two baht's worth. While I would dearly love to have access to 3G and the abilities it brings to advanced telecommunications, enabling devices like iPads and smart phones, I have to agree that most Thai citizens have no need of it. I asked my 26-year old Thai stepdaughter why she is so eager to lay hands on an iPhone4. I asked her if she understood what abilities that phone would give her and if she truly required those capabilities. To which she replied to me: "Loong, I want one; all my friends want one, and that is good enough for me". She will never harness 10% of a smart phone's capabilities...and doesn;t quite understand yet what that harnessing will cost her every month...but she 'wants one'. And this is coming from an MBA holder who holds a solid job as a commercial loan officer with a major Thai bank.

What my stepdaughter relishes so much is what every other techno-brand name- conscious young Thai in this Kingdom also relishes. They have no idea what 3G will deliver, but because it is new and sexy and desireable, they have to have it and will bankrupt themselves to get it, shelling out a month's wages to acquire it and a goodly amount to sustain it. In this sense, the Thai Supreme Court has it right...people need to be fearful of their dreams...they might actually come true.

'Kow Tow Kids logic.'

If I have one I am not lower than my friends,

or I am higher than those that don't have one.

This is how society here has raised their kids to be.

Makes no difference the usability of something,

the status of having it is much more important.

[Crushdepth]

I shudder at the thought of Thailand building nuclear reactors. I hope they will be run better than this.

[golferchin76]

My two baht's worth. While I would dearly love to have access to 3G and the abilities it brings to advanced telecommunications, enabling devices like iPads and smart phones, I have to agree that most Thai citizens have no need of it. I asked my 26-year old Thai stepdaughter why she is so eager to lay hands on an iPhone4. I asked her if she understood what abilities that phone would give her and if she truly required those capabilities. To which she replied to me: "Loong, I want one; all my friends want one, and that is good enough for me". She will never harness 10% of a smart phone's capabilities...and doesn;t quite understand yet what that harnessing will cost her every month...but she 'wants one'. And this is coming from an MBA holder who holds a solid job as a commercial loan officer with a major Thai bank.

What my stepdaughter relishes so much is what every other techno-brand name- conscious young Thai in this Kingdom also relishes. They have no idea what 3G will deliver, but because it is new and sexy and desireable, they have to have it and will bankrupt themselves to get it, shelling out a month's wages to acquire it and a goodly amount to sustain it. In this sense, the Thai Supreme Court has it right...people need to be fearful of their dreams...they might actually come true.

Ok I can understand what you mean about your 26 yrs old stepdaughter, and young people of similar age think and need. They are all the same, different races, countries, religions. But you are underestimating their ability and what some can do with this untethered technology.

I was in Japan last year and I was with a few Japanese friends (met him back in the US during my college years). It amazed me how they can go on-line whenever wherever they need to and search or exchange the information they need. Looking for a popular restaurant in twisty road and got lost, no problem, flick out the iPhone and navigator gets you there. Want to explain to a friend an object in Japanese context to a friend who speaks only English & Chinese (me), no problem, a photo of the object does the job. An race car engineer would like to explain to his potential customer but needs a photo of a double A arm suspension, no problem, a photo from google will do the job. Have a question how to get yourself out from an upside down position in a ski resort? google it and you will set yourself free before frozen to death.

I could do all that in Thailand, but tethered. Untethered, it simply is too slow I would only use it when I absolutely have to. For example, make necessary business payments on-line when I am not in office.

So, Thai citizens have great needs of 3g services. There are business people who want to use them on the road, tons of them. A more extreme example would be farmers, people (and their kids) who live in rural areas and labor in agricultural related field would be able to go on-line where they don't have access to ADSL. It is hard to believe but one of my tractor/semi driver (who had only a few years of primary school education) saved enough for her daughter a very basic computer, and now he talks about google map with me. I was freaking amazed! Some Thais actually care and eager to learn.

I can imagine "some smart" farmers search on-line about how to boost their rice fields' productivity, where to rent equipment, chat about how to maximize their rubber plantation output, etc.

The power for a country to get connected untethered is a must in modern world, the benefit to its people is unmeasurable. It is a giant leap in information exchange. I call it "open up the eyes" in my language.

Your stepdaughter will use that iPhone 3GS and the delayed 3g services to get more businesses, or learn how to stay competitive in this fast-paced society. (Ok the part with iPhone 4 is totally for show-off

Sam

[Arkady]

Playing by Thai rules this makes sense but Thai rules don't make sense, unless you are part of the elite they are designed to protect which is in this case the bureaucratic parasites in the state enterprises. Their mentality is no different from the Burmese generals who don't care how much they make the pie shrink as long they get to eat all of what is left themselves and don't have to share any of it with any one else.

The red shirts have correctly identified this problem of the amartiya or the selfish Thai elites but provide no solutions as their own leaders are also part of the elites and just want to push others aside so they can gorge themselves at the trough.

[dude007]

What a backwards country we are living in. By the time they sort this out, Laos and Cambodia will be on 4G. Absolutely zero interest in the wellbeing of the public.

Did you ever visit recently France's country side? Speaking of cyber stone age... this is the real jurassic cyber-world! A couple of months discussion on legal grounds here will not affect the 3G progress. Better prevent than healing and this is in my opinion the right way...

[golferchin76]

Also can own land in your own name and after 5 years residence in Cambodia you have the rights of citizenship too. (passport & local id included)

Cambodia is looking better all the time. Better exchange rate on the U.S. Dollar, I can start and own 100% my own business, and much better technology in regards to internet and phone service, not to mention much less restrictions on visas, i.e. no 90 day reporting, etc. And whether you like Hun Sin or not, at least they have a more stable government than Thailand.

Please don't even try to compare such a backward country to Thailand. That's such a disgrace to the Kingdom, the LOS. Cambodia is:

1. a country with GDP one twentieth that of Thailand!

2. the "capital city" Phnom Penh measures 5km x 5km at its dense regions! Almost every major Mueng in Thailand dwarfs it.

3. it is constitutional monarchy just like Thailand except Hun Sen has been ruling since 1979!

4. The country is worse in corruption!

5. if this doesn't smell bad enough for you I don't know what will?!

I have been to Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, for visits, and business surveys. My conclusion is that none of them can compete with Thailand yet if you want to make a decent living. If you are in manufacturing and export, Thais are still more productive in terms of output/dollar and produce products with "better quality", not to mention you need the better middle management to help you properly handle a company.

If one is looking to earn money domestically, he won't be able to. Competition is huge (you aren't the only foreigners out there), and the market is too poor and too small.

And It doesn't offer you the luxury and blings of Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Songkla, and developed tourist sites as Thailand. Where's its Pataya, Kho Tao, Phuket, Similan, Kanchanaburi, Chiang Mai (Rai), Isan, Chumphon, Hatyai, just to name a few? Even if you don't need that, it is still a backward 3rd world country, with less freedom to the people. A good travel point maybe, but to live and retire there, wait for another 10 years and with a slight maybe.

You are much much better off landing a job and live in Chonburi, there's a population of farangs there, with good roads, a big central department store, a bunch of retail stores, the convenience of access to airport, Pataya, and Bangkok. And you are sure that the bottle water you drink, contains less lead than that in Cambodia, and no-one can suddenly change the law and take away your hard earned assets.

[golferchin76]

i dont really care about the auction, i already have 3g and use it every day, but still, all this is holding back the country and making it look ridiculous. even north korea has 3g. and besides, why are they even bothering with 3g anymore, why dont they just move on to 4g.

NK has 3g, now that's really ROFLMAO.

But would you move there? I know I am happy to live in Thailand, and I know you're just giving an example so you won't too :-)

[Grumbles]

We are now in september 2010. More or less 12 years ago the EU made a decision that all EU-member states should have the possibility of 3G services before january 1, 2002. I got my first 3G-subscription 2003 and Stockholm and Oslo have had 4G (rather 3,9G with download speed of 100 Mb/s and upload speed of 50 Mb/s) for the last 10 month. I can see several reasons for the slow roll out of mobile data in this country. One of them is that the land line based ISP's can't deliver as fast connections as 3G can (in Sweden I get 20 Mb/s down on 3G when i use iPhone as a tethered modem via Bluetooth). In Bkk I get most of the time old dial-up modem speed (256 Kb/s) with TOT and some of the time I get zip. <div><br></div><div>If 3G licenses where to be auctioned to other telecom companies the ADSL customers of TOT, True, 3BB etc would leave like lemmings and then they have to invest gazillions of THB in new infrastructure to stay competitive. So wouldn't it be nice to wait another couple of years for this soon obsolete technology so that the ISP's can suck us ADSL customers dry by delivering inferior internet connections but still charge for premium service? <div><br></div><div>As a reflection on pricing and service my old man just got communal water to his farm in rural Sweden. The city counsel, who are in charge of connecting the pipes to the grid, asked if my dad wanted a fiber thrown in while they were digging the ditches anyway, at self cost for the fiber. He said yes and has now a 100/100 Mb/s fiber optics connection straight in to his PC and pays 1.000 THB/m for it. A DVD-movie takes 5 min to download. Here it takes a week.</div></div>

[Grumbles]

Surely if you want all the latest hi-tech facilities you could move back to Sweden.

Everybody should stop whineging about how backwards Thailand is and remember that this was probably one of the things that you originally liked - not too much government interference etc. Now everybody wants all the 3G, fibre optic cables and all the security cameras etc that will come with it.

Why not just enjoy what you have & if you cease to enjoy it GO HOME!

[meelousee]

Does anyone remember my first post on this topic? The first 3 years ago the newest last week.

Next to first, 16 page injunction is 16 steps backwards.

In 1998 I was going to open a IT provider and net shop a all in one operation, I did all due diligence. BOI the works, my meeting with CAT, I was told I had to pay 30% of my investment to them AND 33.3% of all income before taxes and cost to CAT EACH MONTH!

You may think there is no monopoly in communications in Thailand but there is. The tie breaker was Taksin and AIS. That is one of the reasons they got rid of him and a kicker did you know that the ONLY satellite owned by Thailand was put into place by a joint venture with Singapore and AIS(Taksin) oh silly me the satellite is named Shin and the ping is 0532535146L

[Deeral]

What a backwards country we are living in. By the time they sort this out, Laos and Cambodia will be on 4G. Absolutely zero interest in the wellbeing of the public.

Did you ever visit recently France's country side? Speaking of cyber stone age... this is the real jurassic cyber-world! A couple of months discussion on legal grounds here will not affect the 3G progress. Better prevent than healing and this is in my opinion the right way...

If you think this is a delay of a couple of months you'll be in for a shock.....most of the opinion indicates about 5 YEARS!!!

France was slow on the uptake with internet in general because they already had a data transmission system ahead of the rest of the world - Minitel.

[leiftheswede]

We are now in september 2010. More or less 12 years ago the EU made a decision that all EU-member states should have the possibility of 3G services before january 1, 2002. I got my first 3G-subscription 2003 and Stockholm and Oslo have had 4G (rather 3,9G with download speed of 100 Mb/s and upload speed of 50 Mb/s) for the last 10 month. I can see several reasons for the slow roll out of mobile data in this country. One of them is that the land line based ISP's can't deliver as fast connections as 3G can (in Sweden I get 20 Mb/s down on 3G when i use iPhone as a tethered modem via Bluetooth). In Bkk I get most of the time old dial-up modem speed (256 Kb/s) with TOT and some of the time I get zip. <div><br></div><div>If 3G licenses where to be auctioned to other telecom companies the ADSL customers of TOT, True, 3BB etc would leave like lemmings and then they have to invest gazillions of THB in new infrastructure to stay competitive. So wouldn't it be nice to wait another couple of years for this soon obsolete technology so that the ISP's can suck us ADSL customers dry by delivering inferior internet connections but still charge for premium service? <div><br></div><div>As a reflection on pricing and service my old man just got communal water to his farm in rural Sweden. The city counsel, who are in charge of connecting the pipes to the grid, asked if my dad wanted a fiber thrown in while they were digging the ditches anyway, at self cost for the fiber. He said yes and has now a 100/100 Mb/s fiber optics connection straight in to his PC and pays 1.000 THB/m for it. A DVD-movie takes 5 min to download. Here it takes a week.</div></div>

So how much did your father have to pay as "self cost". By me just outside Västerås they wanted the sum of 140.000:- bath and I had to dig from my properties border to the house myself. So mybe it´s not that cheap all over as you suggest.

[Deeral]

Also can own land in your own name and after 5 years residence in Cambodia you have the rights of citizenship too. (passport & local id included)

Cambodia is looking better all the time. Better exchange rate on the U.S. Dollar, I can start and own 100% my own business, and much better technology in regards to internet and phone service, not to mention much less restrictions on visas, i.e. no 90 day reporting, etc. And whether you like Hun Sin or not, at least they have a more stable government than Thailand.

Please don't even try to compare such a backward country to Thailand. That's such a disgrace to the Kingdom, the LOS. Cambodia is:

1. a country with GDP one twentieth that of Thailand!

2. the "capital city" Phnom Penh measures 5km x 5km at its dense regions! Almost every major Mueng in Thailand dwarfs it.

3. it is constitutional monarchy just like Thailand except Hun Sen has been ruling since 1979!

4. The country is worse in corruption!

5. if this doesn't smell bad enough for you I don't know what will?!

I have been to Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, for visits, and business surveys. My conclusion is that none of them can compete with Thailand yet if you want to make a decent living. If you are in manufacturing and export, Thais are still more productive in terms of output/dollar and produce products with "better quality", not to mention you need the better middle management to help you properly handle a company.

If one is looking to earn money domestically, he won't be able to. Competition is huge (you aren't the only foreigners out there), and the market is too poor and too small.

And It doesn't offer you the luxury and blings of Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Songkla, and developed tourist sites as Thailand. Where's its Pataya, Kho Tao, Phuket, Similan, Kanchanaburi, Chiang Mai (Rai), Isan, Chumphon, Hatyai, just to name a few? Even if you don't need that, it is still a backward 3rd world country, with less freedom to the people. A good travel point maybe, but to live and retire there, wait for another 10 years and with a slight maybe.

You are much much better off landing a job and live in Chonburi, there's a population of farangs there, with good roads, a big central department store, a bunch of retail stores, the convenience of access to airport, Pataya, and Bangkok. And you are sure that the bottle water you drink, contains less lead than that in Cambodia, and no-one can suddenly change the law and take away your hard earned assets.

......but they STILL can't provide nationwide 3G !!!!!

what a bunch of..................

[JetsetBkk]

My two baht's worth. While I would dearly love to have access to 3G and the abilities it brings to advanced telecommunications, enabling devices like iPads and smart phones, I have to agree that most Thai citizens have no need of it. I asked my 26-year old Thai stepdaughter... <snip>

Ok I can understand what you mean about your 26 yrs old stepdaughter, and young people of similar age think and need. They are all the same, different races, countries, religions. But you are underestimating their ability and what some can do with this untethered technology.

I was in Japan last year and I was with a few Japanese friends (met him back in the US during my college years). It amazed me how they can go on-line whenever wherever they need to and search or exchange the information they need. Looking for a popular restaurant in twisty road and got lost, no problem, flick out the iPhone and navigator gets you there. Want to explain to a friend an object in Japanese context to a friend who speaks only English & Chinese (me), no problem, a photo of the object does the job. An race car engineer would like to explain to his potential customer but needs a photo of a double A arm suspension, no problem, a photo from google will do the job. Have a question how to get yourself out from an upside down position in a ski resort? google it and you will set yourself free before frozen to death.

I could do all that in Thailand, but tethered. Untethered, it simply is too slow I would only use it when I absolutely have to. For example, make necessary business payments on-line when I am not in office.

So, Thai citizens have great needs of 3g services.

<snip>

(Ok the part with iPhone 4 is totally for show-off

Sam

I agree with you, Sam, and not with those who think that, just because Thai kids want it as the latest fashion accessory, that all of Thailand doesn't need it. The implication here is quite insulting to Thai people.

re. the "showing-off": I recently got an email from my niece in the UK. At the bottom it said "Sent from iPhone4". I don't know if that was automatically added or she was just showing off too!

[RKASA]

Does anyone remember my first post on this topic? The first 3 years ago the newest last week.

Next to first, 16 page injunction is 16 steps backwards.

In 1998 I was going to open a IT provider and net shop a all in one operation, I did all due diligence. BOI the works, my meeting with CAT, I was told I had to pay 30% of my investment to them AND 33.3% of all income before taxes and cost to CAT EACH MONTH!

You may think there is no monopoly in communications in Thailand but there is. The tie breaker was Taksin and AIS. That is one of the reasons they got rid of him and a kicker did you know that the ONLY satellite owned by Thailand was put into place by a joint venture with Singapore and AIS(Taksin) oh silly me the satellite is named Shin and the ping is 0532535146L

Oh no you forgot - right after the coup there was the Gen. on TV forgot his name. He said WE want OUR Satillite back. Tells volumes about how things work around here.

[Just1Voice]

Also can own land in your own name and after 5 years residence in Cambodia you have the rights of citizenship too. (passport & local id included)

Cambodia is looking better all the time. Better exchange rate on the U.S. Dollar, I can start and own 100% my own business, and much better technology in regards to internet and phone service, not to mention much less restrictions on visas, i.e. no 90 day reporting, etc. And whether you like Hun Sin or not, at least they have a more stable government than Thailand.

Please don't even try to compare such a backward country to Thailand. That's such a disgrace to the Kingdom, the LOS. Cambodia is:

1. a country with GDP one twentieth that of Thailand!

2. the "capital city" Phnom Penh measures 5km x 5km at its dense regions! Almost every major Mueng in Thailand dwarfs it.

3. it is constitutional monarchy just like Thailand except Hun Sen has been ruling since 1979!

4. The country is worse in corruption!

5. if this doesn't smell bad enough for you I don't know what will?!

I have been to Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Burma, for visits, and business surveys. My conclusion is that none of them can compete with Thailand yet if you want to make a decent living. If you are in manufacturing and export, Thais are still more productive in terms of output/dollar and produce products with "better quality", not to mention you need the better middle management to help you properly handle a company.

If one is looking to earn money domestically, he won't be able to. Competition is huge (you aren't the only foreigners out there), and the market is too poor and too small.

And It doesn't offer you the luxury and blings of Bangkok, Chiang Mai, Songkla, and developed tourist sites as Thailand. Where's its Pataya, Kho Tao, Phuket, Similan, Kanchanaburi, Chiang Mai (Rai), Isan, Chumphon, Hatyai, just to name a few? Even if you don't need that, it is still a backward 3rd world country, with less freedom to the people. A good travel point maybe, but to live and retire there, wait for another 10 years and with a slight maybe.

You are much much better off landing a job and live in Chonburi, there's a population of farangs there, with good roads, a big central department store, a bunch of retail stores, the convenience of access to airport, Pataya, and Bangkok. And you are sure that the bottle water you drink, contains less lead than that in Cambodia, and no-one can suddenly change the law and take away your hard earned assets.

And for all your "worldly travels", you still haven't got a clue as to when someone is being slightly sarcastic. Pity you.

[Acharn]

It is called checks and balances, and Constitution.

As much as I would like to use a 3G phone in Thailand, I have to admit there is something positive about the Courts safeguarding the constitution, which, if we like it or not, has clear procedures written down, that deserve to be followed, or the Consitution to be rewritten.

Now the question if it is really necessary to write such specified details in the constitution is allowed, but the facts remain, and I am happy that the courts did not bow to the public and governmental pressure here.

Begs the question why this commission required has not been founded, after more than 3 Years after the referendum. This is the scandal.

I think the problem stems from the excessive detail that was written into the 2007 constitution. I had the same criticism of the 1997 constitution. They combined nit-picking detail with complete ambiguity, and then required Parliament to write and pass "enabling legislation" to put these agencies into effect. It was a recipe for disaster, but probably the only way to achieve compromise at the time. It's too bad ordinary labor unions don't have the power the unions at CAT and TOT have.

[Deeral]

It is called checks and balances, and Constitution.

As much as I would like to use a 3G phone in Thailand, I have to admit there is something positive about the Courts safeguarding the constitution, which, if we like it or not, has clear procedures written down, that deserve to be followed, or the Consitution to be rewritten.

Now the question if it is really necessary to write such specified details in the constitution is allowed, but the facts remain, and I am happy that the courts did not bow to the public and governmental pressure here.

Begs the question why this commission required has not been founded, after more than 3 Years after the referendum. This is the scandal.

"It is called checks and balances, and Constitution." - sorry can't agree - this is an example of how NOT to write a constitution - there are fussy details and unthought out "extras" written into the constitution that as with all law and constitution issues make the country in many respects unworkable, undemocratic and purely to the advantage of an elite.

[Daewoo]

My two baht's worth. While I would dearly love to have access to 3G and the abilities it brings to advanced telecommunications, enabling devices like iPads and smart phones, I have to agree that most Thai citizens have no need of it. I asked my 26-year old Thai stepdaughter why she is so eager to lay hands on an iPhone4. I asked her if she understood what abilities that phone would give her and if she truly required those capabilities. To which she replied to me: "Loong, I want one; all my friends want one, and that is good enough for me". She will never harness 10% of a smart phone's capabilities...and doesn;t quite understand yet what that harnessing will cost her every month...but she 'wants one'. And this is coming from an MBA holder who holds a solid job as a commercial loan officer with a major Thai bank.

What my stepdaughter relishes so much is what every other techno-brand name- conscious young Thai in this Kingdom also relishes. They have no idea what 3G will deliver, but because it is new and sexy and desireable, they have to have it and will bankrupt themselves to get it, shelling out a month's wages to acquire it and a goodly amount to sustain it. In this sense, the Thai Supreme Court has it right...people need to be fearful of their dreams...they might actually come true.

Fore Man,

This is the same the world over... do you think Apple and Nokia became the huge companies that they are by catering to needs??? It is, and always has been about marketting themself as stylish and youthful...

Do I think not having 3G is stopping Thailand becoming all it can be, yes and no... Does it matter that the farmer in Issan, living in a hut with a dirt floor doesn't have hi-speed Internet, probably not... does it matter that his daughter has never used the Internet... not as long as he has no higher hope for her than a low paying low skilled job...

If Thailand wants to move from agriculture and basic manufacturing, it is going to need skilled, tech-savy people... it is going to need people who are natural with technology... Thailand is some way there, but still, the go to place for Telco Engineers in now Indonesia, not Thailand...

Note that while Thailand squabbles over 3G, the Australian Governement squabbles over the 1.2 Trillion Baht proposal to take Optical Fibre Connectivity to the whole country... Needed to provide High Speed Internet to allow the country not to fall further behind... A situation caused because the Governement Owned Body (Telstra Was 100%, over time it is now 17%) used it's position to prevent competition...

Different Technology, DIfferent Scale, same outcomes...

Cheers,

Daewoo

Edited September 27, 2010 by Daewoo

[Deeral]

" I have to agree that most Thai citizens have no need of it. " what a preposterously arrogant comment!

the poster does a survey of one and dismisses the entire Thai nation.

I think it really shows that the poster knows sod-all about business in this country or the internet in general - in fact it's a wonder he managed top post at all - BTW - what sort of connection do YOU need - obviously it's OK for you and not for the Thai nation.

A lot of other posters here seem to b confusing NEEDS and MARKETING - there is a need and for any company to get an edge in an extremely competitive market there needs to be groups targeted to increase the market, turnover and profitability. and tell me when HAVEN"T kids wanted the latest technology?

However this is irrelevant - what has happened is Thai "men in grey suits" have put their personal profit ahead of what might benefit the entire nation - INCLUDING KIDS! - and that is not IMO justifiable.

you mention the Australian debacle as if it has some bearing on the situation here in Thailand - well it has made the Aussies look like a bunch of fools too I suppose

BTW - it certainly WILL affect those in more remote areas where phone lines take months to install and a 3G transmitter can cover these areas easily. It may even affect property prices when people realise they can't get any decent internet in a particular area.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Deeral

[Thai at Heart]

" I have to agree that most Thai citizens have no need of it. " what a preposterously arrogant comment!

the poster does a survey of one and dismisses the entire Thai nation.

I think it really shows that the poster knows sod-all about business in this country or the internet in general - in fact it's a wonder he managed top post at all - BTW - what sort of connection do YOU need - obviously it's OK for you and not for the Thai nation.

A lot of other posters here seem to b confusing NEEDS and MARKETING - there is a need and for any company to get an edge in an extremely competitive market there needs to be groups targeted to increase the market, turnover and profitability. and tell me when HAVEN"T kids wanted the latest technology?

However this is irrelevant - what has happened is Thai "men in grey suits" have put their personal profit ahead of what might benefit the entire nation - INCLUDING KIDS! - and that is not IMO justifiable.

you mention the Australian debacle as if it has some bearing on the situation here in Thailand - well it has made the Aussies look like a bunch of fools too I suppose

BTW - it certainly WILL affect those in more remote areas where phone lines take months to install and a 3G transmitter can cover these areas easily. It may even affect property prices when people realise they can't get any decent internet in a particular area.

One has to look at how long it took for Blackberry's to be rolled out here and taken up in volume by business to see that the concept of using the internet to increase business efficiency is catching on very slowly. The amount of applications that can be put into mobile form for phones these days is astonishing, but as yet I don't see too many companies in Thailand taking advantage yet.

Presumably cost, speed and programming in Thai language is slowing the whole thing up.

[Deeral]

" I have to agree that most Thai citizens have no need of it. " what a preposterously arrogant comment!

the poster does a survey of one and dismisses the entire Thai nation.

I think it really shows that the poster knows sod-all about business in this country or the internet in general - in fact it's a wonder he managed top post at all - BTW - what sort of connection do YOU need - obviously it's OK for you and not for the Thai nation.

A lot of other posters here seem to b confusing NEEDS and MARKETING - there is a need and for any company to get an edge in an extremely competitive market there needs to be groups targeted to increase the market, turnover and profitability. and tell me when HAVEN"T kids wanted the latest technology?

However this is irrelevant - what has happened is Thai "men in grey suits" have put their personal profit ahead of what might benefit the entire nation - INCLUDING KIDS! - and that is not IMO justifiable.

you mention the Australian debacle as if it has some bearing on the situation here in Thailand - well it has made the Aussies look like a bunch of fools too I suppose

BTW - it certainly WILL affect those in more remote areas where phone lines take months to install and a 3G transmitter can cover these areas easily. It may even affect property prices when people realise they can't get any decent internet in a particular area.

One has to look at how long it took for Blackberry's to be rolled out here and taken up in volume by business to see that the concept of using the internet to increase business efficiency is catching on very slowly. The amount of applications that can be put into mobile form for phones these days is astonishing, but as yet I don't see too many companies in Thailand taking advantage yet.

Presumably cost, speed and programming in Thai language is slowing the whole thing up.

IT"S BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T GOT 3G!!!!!!!!!!!!! - DUH!

[Deeral]

BTW- i used a BB for work in UK and when I came back to thailand I chucked it because it really couldn't function as it should here.

My brother and his wife came over and both brought their BBs, but ended up buying an 800 baht cheapie to communicate with the UK.

In UK the business runs on mobiles and internet - until we have 3G I can't even get started here.

Edited September 27, 2010 by Deeral

[Thai at Heart]

" I have to agree that most Thai citizens have no need of it. " what a preposterously arrogant comment!

the poster does a survey of one and dismisses the entire Thai nation.

I think it really shows that the poster knows sod-all about business in this country or the internet in general - in fact it's a wonder he managed top post at all - BTW - what sort of connection do YOU need - obviously it's OK for you and not for the Thai nation.

A lot of other posters here seem to b confusing NEEDS and MARKETING - there is a need and for any company to get an edge in an extremely competitive market there needs to be groups targeted to increase the market, turnover and profitability. and tell me when HAVEN"T kids wanted the latest technology?

However this is irrelevant - what has happened is Thai "men in grey suits" have put their personal profit ahead of what might benefit the entire nation - INCLUDING KIDS! - and that is not IMO justifiable.

you mention the Australian debacle as if it has some bearing on the situation here in Thailand - well it has made the Aussies look like a bunch of fools too I suppose

BTW - it certainly WILL affect those in more remote areas where phone lines take months to install and a 3G transmitter can cover these areas easily. It may even affect property prices when people realise they can't get any decent internet in a particular area.

One has to look at how long it took for Blackberry's to be rolled out here and taken up in volume by business to see that the concept of using the internet to increase business efficiency is catching on very slowly. The amount of applications that can be put into mobile form for phones these days is astonishing, but as yet I don't see too many companies in Thailand taking advantage yet.

Presumably cost, speed and programming in Thai language is slowing the whole thing up.

IT"S BECAUSE THEY HAVEN'T GOT 3G!!!!!!!!!!!!! - DUH!

My Nokia E series functions perfectly well for email without 3g. The apps part is another issue. I wouldn't know if the type of apps available in the West would run on 2g, although of course, more slowly.