Spk Land No Used During One Year

[steph14]

HI everybody,

I've bought 17 rai SPK land 6 month ago. My first project was to farm rubber tree, but a professor says to my thai wife that the soil is no sufficient plane and we have to move the soil before plant rubber trees.I not sure that a such investment is good now.

Actually we have sugar cane, but I don't know if i want to continue this culture.

My wife says to me that the governement can take back our land if there is no culture in the land during one year. Is it possible ?

Please if anybody has information concerning this subject.

Regards.

[gotlost]

What's your location and does your wife have a chanot on the land?

[jamescollister]

Yes the land my have been granted for the purpose of growing rubber, but they usually give you more than one year. There is lots of land that is crown and given to families to farm, but it is still crown land and if you don;t use it you lose it. Jim

[steph14]

hello together,

This is not a chanote land but a Sor Por kor land title bought by my sister in law near Buriram in isaan country.

I haven't choose which farm can i do.

Can't i wait one or two years before choose which farm i want to do ?

Thanks a lot for your help.

[Khonwan]

Hi Steph14

SorPorKor land must be used for agricultural purposes. It is state land, which the person granted the land has the right to use for agricultural purposes only. It can be reclaimed by the state in the event of non-use (and in other events such as having been acquired by a person who is not immediate family of the original title holder – but that’s another topic). I do not think leaving it unused for one year would create a risk since allowing land to be fallow for a season is a legitimate farming practice but I would suggest anything longer than this is risky (and only compounds your existing risk if your wife is not immediate family to the original title holder).

I also believe it is unethical to leave agricultural land unused when so many people are crying out for land to farm and when land has never been needed more for food and fuel production.

I suggest you rent out the land until such time as you will make use of it yourself.

Rgds

Khonwan

[thaipod]

We are in a simular situation where my wife has 60 rai SorPorKor land and planted teak trees near the Burmese border where as we have to use the land for agriculture purposes only . It was state land where it was split and distibuted to incourage farming . My wifes mother bought it and signed it over to my wife who has to pay annual tax on it .

I'm still not sure of the full story myself of what we can do with this land .One of the best people to confirm this would be the district village head or go to the land department.

As for the teak we need a permit from the forest department to cut it, transport it, or sell it . they seem to have full control over the whole crop.

[steph14]

hello everybody,

"SorPorKor land must be used for agricultural purposes" : can you confirm that farming rubber tree is a agricuture purpose and not from the forest department ?

Another question, When we have a SorPorKor land,must we pay a taxe every year and how much is it ?

Regards.

[Mobaan]

hello everybody,

"SorPorKor land must be used for agricultural purposes" : can you confirm that farming rubber tree is a agricuture purpose and not from the forest department ?

Another question, When we have a SorPorKor land,must we pay a taxe every year and how much is it ?

Regards.

The taxes are going to kill you:

4 Baht per Rai per year !!!

[Khonwan]

Yes, Steph14, all forestry is included as agriculture.

With regards to SorPorKor rules, “agricultural purposes” even extends to other businesses supporting agriculture directly (e.g. suppliers of agricultural products – seed, fertiliser, machinery, etc.) and indirectly (e.g. shops supplying basic goods and services to the agricultural community – groceries, hairdressing, clothes, building supplies, etc.). The meaning can therefore be quite wide but doesn’t include the likes of golf courses.

Since all are included as agriculture, it is entirely up to you whether you choose to (or try to) grow rubber, teak, cotton, beans, grass, onions, maize, cassava, oranges, pigs, fish, frogs, or whatever. Nature, soil, nutrition, skill, effort, and markets shall, of course, determine your chance of success.

As has been noted in the case of teak, certificates are required from the Forestry Department (usually at planting, as far as I know) before cutting them…but that is only to curtail the supply of illegally logged teak from the national forests.

Mobaan has already (and correctly) answered your tax question.

Rgds

Khonwan

[steph14]

thanks a lot for your response,

How much can we rent a land per year ? My wife speak about 500 baht/year/rai, is it correct ?

Another point, a wife's friend tell us her bad adventure concerning 20 rai of rubber farm. She has actually, 1000 rai of rubber trees and she produces latex for 20 years.

Unfortunately her 20 rai of 8 years old are not productive, she decided to cut down and replace this 20 rai with another production.

The forestry department came to see her and gave her a big big fine cause it's not authorise to destroy trees. Can't we replace trees by another farm production ?

What do you think about ? Has it sense ?

Regards.

[Khonwan]

Hi Steph14

Rentals vary between areas; 500 baht per rai is certainly possible in some areas but my area is 1,000-1,200 baht per rai.

I’m surprised that the Forest Dept intervened over the rubber trees. I can only think that the land was not SorPorKor (certainly not chanote) but was Zone 4 land, which is land adjacent to forests that the Forest Dept have not allowed to be changed to SorPorKor. Such land can still be farmed but the logging of trees is not allowed.

Rgds

Khonwan

[steph14]

hi,

another topic, I have bought 17 rai -->600000 baht, that's mean each rai cost 35000 baht. What do you think about this price for a Sor por kor land located near Buriram ?

I've read some people have bought each rai 10000 baht.

Regards.

[OOTAI]

hi,

another topic, I have bought 17 rai -->600000 baht, that's mean each rai cost 35000 baht. What do you think about this price for a Sor por kor land located near Buriram ?

I've read some people have bought each rai 10000 baht.

Regards.

steph14

I wouldn't worry about what you read because its what you actually pay that is real. My missus just paid B49000 per rai (we're in Buriram). The price is determined by what someone will pay. In her case it adjoined land she already owned and she was the one asking if was for sale so they knew they could charge a premium.

She has paid anywhere from B12000 per rai up to B100000 per rai (she really wanted the 4 rai).

The other thing is if your wife was happy to pay that then she should know what land is being sold for in the area as Thai's are always talking about everyone else's business.

My suggestion if you are worried about leaving it for a year is to plant a few trees around the block and then if anyone asks you are testing what grows best where before you do the serious planting in a year's time (or later if the trees grow slowly).

[finner]

Sor Por Kor land just south of you is going for about B50,000 per Rai if it has road access anywhere. If on a main road, up to B60,000.

[Mobaan]

Hi Steph14

Rentals vary between areas; 500 baht per rai is certainly possible in some areas but my area is 1,000-1,200 baht per rai.

I’m surprised that the Forest Dept intervened over the rubber trees. I can only think that the land was not SorPorKor (certainly not chanote) but was Zone 4 land, which is land adjacent to forests that the Forest Dept have not allowed to be changed to SorPorKor. Such land can still be farmed but the logging of trees is not allowed.

Rgds

Khonwan

First ime I heard the term "Zone 4". With a SorPorKor does one have any actual land paper with the embossed government seal on the top ? Or is it just a hand written statement signed by buyer , Seller and the Puya Ba ?

Also I heard it might be possible in certain cases to ask for special court approval to change a SorPorKor into a full chanote (never mind the logisical nightmares to employ a Thai court -just the theoretical pssibiltes)

[bina]

Also I heard it might be possible in certain cases to ask for special court approval to change a SorPorKor into a full chanote (never mind the logisical nightmares to employ a Thai court -just the theoretical pssibiltes)

lots of info in the real estate forum but from personal and horrible experience:

we are still waiting one and ahalf years later to get the chanote... we applied, paid, got permission and waited and then in january thailand gave one month for anyone who wants to upgrade to chanote to apply. in february they closed the application process. so now hundreds of families are waiting for the official surveyors to do the land. ours was surveyed. then apparently someone on one border didnt sign (his brother signed for him but it turns out that the brother doesnt actually own the land bordering our land so had to wait for the original real brother/owner to sign for the border permission. latest is that: its in process. that was may 2009.

we actually called the land office in kornburi and in korat and spoke to all concerned; sent mother in law with papers; still in process and waiting. we were told that because so many thousands of people managed to get their applications in in february that there is a huge back up and very few surveyors, plus thai slowness ... the land was originally for rice, owned by mother in law, she gave to my husband...

still waiting and it has ntoihing to do with me being farang. just beurocracy.

[steph14]

hi,

thanks a lot for alll these comments, I want to test a rubber plantation with 6 rai and let the other with sugar can plantation.

This land is sloppy, i think i can grow rubber tree in the top and make a bore for the water. I will launch another topic because i havelot's of question about this farming.

I think that the next time i will buy chanote land, but my wife says that it's difficult to acquire and very expensive.

How much more can we buy a Chanote Land ?

Regards.

[Khonwan]

Steph14, “zone 4” should have read “zone C” – sounds similar to me in Thai!

“Zone C” is a Forest Dept. term appearing on their maps, basically representing areas adjoining forest that are currently allowed to be farmed but where ownership rights (chanote) or even usage rights (Sor Por Kor) are not granted. These lands are usually (always?) Bor Tor 5 or Bor Tor 11. Note, this does not mean that Bor Tor 5/11 land is always, or even usually, Zone C. The farmers of such Zone C land should be familiar with the term as they are likely (at least in my area) to be called to village meetings from time to time by the Forest Dept. where the term is regularly used.

“How much more can we buy a Chanote Land ?” If I understand you correctly, the answer is: there is no limit to the amount of chanote land a Thai can legally own. If you are asking about the cost: how long is a piece of string?

Rgds

Khonwan