Falang Policy Changes In Cm Education Institutions

[Citizen313619]

The language center is being discussed. Similiar things are happening in the major International schools around CM. Falang staff have been told that they are being demoted and teaching contracts have been changed and broken. Only Thai nationals can hold top positions in International schools now. These changes have been sudden and without warning. I guess it could just be a coincidence that several major academic institutions have suddenly and without warning changed policies to limit falangs. I think its worth paying attention to.

[SausageKing]

AmazingThailand ?

[uptheos]

Think Buddhism...... nothing is permanent.

[iainiain101]

To what does this post/thread refer?

[sevenhills]

To what does this post/thread refer?

Policy changes, as the thread title suggests.

[CMX]

My theory is that we should all keep our references specific, based on first-hand knowledge with evidence that does not however name names, to Chiang Mai. Some of these issues are volatile, seen from some points of view, and we do not want to be shuffled off to some general forum out of town, where we will not know many of the participants in order to value their opinions.

Parts of the discussion, which already have been posted, are exclusive to Chiang Mai and have to do with many - dozens and perhaps hundreds - of troubled students who live HERE IN CHIANG MAI and need to know what is going on, what solutions are best, and how to act now.

One unfortunate aspect of closing and shifting a thread is that it sinks out of sight. Also, unless a search is worded correctly, the issue can be lost.

It is worthwhile while using Thai Visa always, I think, to practice Buddhist values, particularly in how to deal with the ridiculous or impossible. Posters.

[Bill97]

Citizen313619,

Thanks for the information. I have heard of something like this happening at one CM international school. Are you sure it is happening in all the major CM international schools? Or even in most of them which would be 4 or more?

[Citizen313619]

N (is) now named (School A) ~ happening - Personal experience

AP (is) now named (School B ~ happening -Personal experience)

CM (is) now named (School C) - do not have personal experience

PT (is) now named (School D) do not have personal experience

There is a Thai Law that has a subsection that states that ONLY Thai Nationals can hold top International School Positions (Director, etc) - as with most things, it isnt always upheld or cherry picked but School A administrators have made it clear that this will be enforced

School A demoted Principal and Asst Principal at the beginning of this fall semester (combined 20+ yrs experience at School A)

School B had a much larger than normal teacher turnover during the summer due to similiar changes

Edited September 27, 2010 by Citizen313619

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup, TV CM Friends,

We apologize for our previous frivolous response (we'll ask the mods to take it down).

We had not realized that the thread on this very serious situation involving some 300 people had been shifted to the "Thai visas, residency and work permits" section of TV : here's a link to the current last page of the thread titled "CMU Fails To Provide Visa Support Documents" :

ED Visa Boondoggle

Since this issue is happening here in Chiang Mai, and directly concerns many people in Chaing Mai, we find it strange to find it relocated, but are glad it's still there.

Our deep sympathies to those in Chiang Mai whose lives have been disrupted by whatever this chaotic dance is, and who have lost money, and applause for the posting of the letter ... on this forum ... from Matthew Kay found here:

Matthew Kay's Letter

Thanks to Khun TyWais for posting the link to the "relocated" (exiled ?) thread once found here in his "closing remarks" on the above post !

best, ~o:37;

[Loaded]

At NIS the owner tried to change the job description of the farang director. There was a response from parents and teachers but I've heard everything is normal again after this 'misunderstanding'. My information may be wrong but I believe it to be from a reliable source.

As most people know CMU canceled the programs run by IUS at the Language Institute. This has affected many foreigners who were relying on these programs for 1-year ED visas.

The world is not ending and the Thais aren't about to burn us out of our houses.

[Citizen313619]

Loaded -

Unfortunately, this is not the case in school A. The change in job description was a demotion in pay and title with an expectation of the falang principal and asst principal to continue doing the same job while in limbo.

Teachers are not allowed contact information for the owner or the board and parents and teachers are not represented on the board so there is no say in the matter.

Most highly qualified teachers begin looking for new positions in oct/ nov so it will be very difficult for School A to avoid a mass turnover this upcoming summer

At first it was looked at as a move by that Thai owner, but with this recent change at the University, it seems that there is a larger picture forming instead of just one owner making changes

Edited September 27, 2010 by Citizen313619

[CMX]

I, for one, am delighted to understand that the parents of the children of the posh are apparently not to be disobliged, even slightly, by such shifts.

It is all puzzling, absent reliable information. 'Twill be good to hear from those institutions where no such changes are taking place.

Edited September 27, 2010 by CMX

[chaoyang]

Loaded -

Unfortunately, this is not the case in school A. The change in job description was a demotion in pay and title with an expectation of the falang principal and asst principal to continue doing the same job while in limbo.

Teachers are not allowed contact information for the owner or the board and parents and teachers are not represented on the board so there is no say in the matter.

Most highly qualified teachers begin looking for new positions in oct/ nov so it will be very difficult for School A to avoid a mass turnover this upcoming summer

At first it was looked at as a move by that Thai owner, but with this recent change at the University, it seems that there is a larger picture forming instead of just one owner making changes

I had direct, long experience with NIS. The owner, a Sino-Thai oil executive, installed his 28 year old daughter as " manager," but she often did little more than ponder the correct color for the website, then declined to interact at all with the foreign staff. Perhaps because she was rarely there, she struck on the brilliant plan for all teachers to punch a time clock, but due to an uproar, finally backed down.

It is my understanding this manager is now not ever there, but retains the title. She probably communicates to "manage" the school through other female Thai staff, which seems to be the only people she is comfortable with.

Some government "rule" may be trotted out to justify what's going on now, but the frank truth is the Thai manager increasingly sought to marginalize the foreign administrators and teachers. She simply cannot bear to have anyone challenge or respond to her whims, and foreigners have a bad habit of saying what they think.

[Citizen313619]

Loaded -

Unfortunately, this is not the case in school A. The change in job description was a demotion in pay and title with an expectation of the falang principal and asst principal to continue doing the same job while in limbo.

Teachers are not allowed contact information for the owner or the board and parents and teachers are not represented on the board so there is no say in the matter.

Most highly qualified teachers begin looking for new positions in oct/ nov so it will be very difficult for School A to avoid a mass turnover this upcoming summer

At first it was looked at as a move by that Thai owner, but with this recent change at the University, it seems that there is a larger picture forming instead of just one owner making changes

I had direct, long experience with NIS. The owner, a Sino-Thai oil executive, installed his 28 year old daughter as " manager," but she often did little more than ponder the correct color for the website, then declined to interact at all with the foreign staff. Perhaps because she was rarely there, she struck on the brilliant plan for all teachers to punch a time clock, but due to an uproar, finally backed down.

It is my understanding this manager is now not ever there, but retains the title. She probably communicates to "manage" the school through other female Thai staff, which seems to be the only people she is comfortable with.

Some government "rule" may be trotted out to justify what's going on now, but the frank truth is the Thai manager increasingly sought to marginalize the foreign administrators and teachers. She simply cannot bear to have anyone challenge or respond to her whims, and foreigners have a bad habit of saying what they think.

Your experiences definitely shed light on a lot of what has happened.

Unfortunately, his daughter is battling cancer and is no longer working at the school

I still think that this isnt just about one owner, or one poor "manager" --- this is happening at several different places

Edited September 27, 2010 by Citizen313619

[cmsally]

As a matter of interest; what exactly is the relationship of NIS and the kindergarten (has a slightly different name as I remember). Is it their kindergarten or do they have their own too. There definitely seems to be a connection but I was told not the same school (sorry the exact name completely skips my mind).

Sorry that seems a bit jumbled - would make a lot more sense if I could remember the name of the kindergarten!!

[Citizen313619]

As a matter of interest; what exactly is the relationship of NIS and the kindergarten (has a slightly different name as I remember). Is it their kindergarten or do they have their own too. There definitely seems to be a connection but I was told not the same school (sorry the exact name completely skips my mind).

Sorry that seems a bit jumbled - would make a lot more sense if I could remember the name of the kindergarten!!

NAPA is a separate kindergarten located on the NIS campus

NAPA is Thai with english

NIS has its own English Kindergarten as well

Edited September 27, 2010 by Citizen313619

[cmsally]

Thank you, that's it. I didn't actually realise it was on the same campus. Why on earth would a school have 2 kindergartens, one not actually it own??

[chaoyang]

Sorry to hear about the cancer. I ran across her Facebook page recently with some beautiful pictures of her in the Maldives.

I hope she will be OK and I also hope the teachers and administrators at the school will be OK as well -- and treated professionally.

[wehugheog]

So, I better call my credit card company and report possible fraud for paying and not receiving a ED visa?

Any legal advice here (or PM)?

[Bill97]

The law requiring a Thai to be the top administrator at an international school has been around for a long time from what I was told by a school administrator 7 or 8 years ago. Most schools find a way to live with it and still have effective administration.

The problem at NIS is much deeper than just finding a way to live within that law. I heard that fees went up about 18% this year but teachers got no raise so the issue is probably not just the new manager because that would most likely be a Board decision. Unfortunate as the school was making good progress but has now put itself in a hole.

[Loaded]

The law requiring a Thai to be the top administrator at an international school has been around for a long time from what I was told by a school administrator 7 or 8 years ago. Most schools find a way to live with it and still have effective administration.

The problem at NIS is much deeper than just finding a way to live within that law. I heard that fees went up about 18% this year but teachers got no raise so the issue is probably not just the new manager because that would most likely be a Board decision. Unfortunate as the school was making good progress but has now put itself in a hole.

Cost savings of changing a farang director to a Thai one are huge. I guess nobody thinks paying a farang more for the same job is prejudice though.

[chaoyang]

The law requiring a Thai to be the top administrator at an international school has been around for a long time from what I was told by a school administrator 7 or 8 years ago. Most schools find a way to live with it and still have effective administration.

The problem at NIS is much deeper than just finding a way to live within that law. I heard that fees went up about 18% this year but teachers got no raise so the issue is probably not just the new manager because that would most likely be a Board decision. Unfortunate as the school was making good progress but has now put itself in a hole.

I can tell you from experience the decisions are made by the owner in consultation with his daughter. The school got itself a bit sideways with the Western Association of Schools and Colleges (WASC) a few years back during its accreditation review because of no school board and how desicions, both long-term and day-to-day, are made. The school has since established a board with Thai educators no doubt friendly with the owner. The owner and his family are definitely Bangkok Thais with a big basket of money.

So, it's his football. I think many of the moves he made are excellent for the school, but blood of course is much thicker than water, and when you have a hi-so Thai princess in a close working relationship with foreigners, you've got a recipe for trouble. In my experience, this class of Thai is just a nightmare to "work" with. They consider only other Bankok elite on their level and treat other Thais and foreigners with distain, or at best, condescension. Decisions are often reached based on face, and that is usually harmful to the business itself and the people who work there.

Well, enough said. I've known these things for many years, but never went out of my way to publicize them .Now that it's come up, I'm happy to share. I don't know why it should be a secret.

Edited September 27, 2010 by chaoyang

[jayinoz]

Overall I agree if you are of no real benefit 'Financially' to the Elite, you are a Ghost. Some goes for any organisation in which you may work and they own. You will never be as good as them or equal. It is the Asian way forever- I doubt this will change. Leave th Elite to themselves to try conquer the rest of the Thais, as they will rarely take any notice of you.

My Uncle a MD of a huge company has been appaulled at the attitude shown to him in Asia. Thus prefers to appoint Elitist Thais and Chinese to top positions to deal with other Elite in their land- as they will not listen to him. Yet the Elite he employees for INSANE money must listen to him, as they financially benefit off him. You are equal to them only if you pay them the right amount of money- everyone has a price.

In terms of International schools, some were started by Foreigners then bought out later on. Some are still owned and operated by Foreigners so the other Thai Directors need to listen to only the Farangs above them.

I have often wondered how teachers can put up with this AJAN YAY and AJAN NOI attitude. I would not stand for it and would simply tell them where to go. Whereas I presume many International School Directors are probably doing now, as these highly qualified people get treated as 2nd class compared to the equivalent in Thai. So they move on and out to better things. Thailand education will lose out in the end due to this attitude. They already very low in the country rankings as is, even at the Elite Vs Elite level of other countries. Now that statement may put a bee under some's bonnet, yet it is fact... look it up.

[mamborobert]

I'd argue the point about my own criminality for quoting but take your point that to do so on the board may give rise to undue attention and that was never my intent...so the point is well taken and thanks Newbie001

[newbie001]

please tell me that you didn't use your own computer to break the le majesty law. I would suggest that you delete your first 2 sentences or would you like the TV forums to be banned in Thailand? How can someone that has been here as long as you not know better?

[newbie001]

repeating what someone else said is also a breach of that law. Mambrobert.

[Loaded]

CMU LI's official response:

[CMX]

Loaded, I have never seen you (just a year, though) be so partisan. Hundreds of students are expelled without personal blame of any sort, and unless they have captured temporary visas, their annual ed. visas are useless if they've taken notes from the U to Immigration, where they were canceled at the request of the University. They are required to leave Thailand as well in two days, in spite of a contract, signed and paid for, for a year's time of study. Case closed and damage done.

Any suggestion that the U's concerns justified such a solution that harmed the innocent, particularly in such numbers, is mystifying to me and not answered in their notice.

(Incidentally, there are piling up refutations of sorts of the U's statement over on the thread that was moved out of our town.)

I'm one who believes that all laws of my host country should be followed with a will. In any case they must. But I fear that the U's action was unfortunate, as it harmed many innocents.

[PlanetX]

The institutions that seemed to be above harmful, insensitive and immediate (without notice or discussion) policy changes are quickly succumbing to sudden policy changes that are directed at falangs.

I am not insinsuating anything, but I do know in history when there were concerns of destabilization and power struggles, a group (minority) is used as a scapegoat for many of societies difficulties. The world Falang already sets the foundation of a minority group being singled together. All that needs to happen is a shift in perspective and view point regarding the group.

I think its worth paying attention closely to what is happening in these institutions, because it will set a precedent that will be followed (and we know how quickly our southeast asian brothers and sisters can replicate something).

The looming double dip recession (possibility), weak foreign currencies, and instability here in paradise are all standing by the gates -

If a Falang is no longer protected by established institutions, I think that is a sign that the falang is not appreciated - and therefore (slight possibility) may become the negative focus over a inevitable public policy campaign of making a better Thailand for all

[CMX]

On the other hand, paranoia is just around the corner, if I don't start with the sun-block.

I keep recalling that Thais have kept their independence from marauding countries by being suspicious. Geography and quirks of history helped, to be sure, but suspicious.

No rulers of any nation want a reduction of national independence very much (particularly because they form part of an elite in most cases), and for some, even a hint of a reduction of control is a red flag. Er.... Make that a cape before a bull. No, strike that....

But it is not necessary to swat a mosquito with an oar. Effective either.