Pigs 101 (A Start)

[OBCMO]

Hi.

One more newbie joins the crowd. I have in Isaan a pig farm for about 100 piglets, 10 sows and one boar. Currently it is all empty. I've been buying piglets few rounds in about 3 years with success and failures. Mostly failures I would say. Had also some sows at some point. Lost some to PRRS but got also some piglets on my own. I do not have time to do the work myself so I have delegated the task to Thais.

On this Thursday a batch of 100 piglets will move in and the story continues.

It's been great to read your writings in this thread. I've learned quite a bit and perhaps this time it will be a success.

[RedBullHorn]

Welcome OBCMO...

[tingtong]

welcome OBCMO!

are you contract farming now?

since you mentioned that prior runs were more faulire than success, it seem to me rather brave to take on 100 piglets all the same time.

i am nowhere that experienced, just thinking "aloud" here that least i would spread them over a few weeks period, so, when the selling time comes it isnt all or nothing, but have a bit more room to move around.

also, just curious on your plan for comaprison...how much per piglet, what you expect to spend on feed/pig, and where would you think your breakeven price would be?

just curious, if you dont mind.

[thedoctor]

Welcome OBCMO..

im sure youll get plenty of help and feedback on here to any question you ask,

which area of thailand are you living in,

mick

[OBCMO]

My farm is in Chaiyaphum, Phu Khieo. I do not have contract but I do have buyback agreement. Do not ask me on what price. I have no clue. I do not want to spread them over few weeks because I do not want to risk getting in germs. PIglets are about 20 kg and cost about 2000 per head. They are coming from EVAP farm and should be pedigree. I have also a deal with the feed (Betagro). According to calculations/estimations we should go below 3500 baht / pig. I have labor costs, which would apply anyway because of my other business. When we have pigs we need to pay a little more. Workers have 10 years of experience in CP contract farm with 150 sows. They know quite a bit and would be vaste of skills to keep the farm empty.

Actually my first 22 piglet batch created real profit about 900 per pig some years ago. After that some losses and some just generated income to workers. After PRRS disaster I had two sows left and got litters of 16 and 3. Those were sold on Song Kran and got rid of all. Cleaned the farm and we are back in business. Oh yes, one time lost 25.000 for sharks who tuned my mecanical scale, 100 kg pigs were sold 70-80 kg. I was not there are the time. All documents lost Thai style. It is history and worthless. :-)

Lot's of leaning done. Shoe cleaning, closed the farm with nets, no visitors, electronic floor scale, no car&motorcycle parking, no chickens, no dogs and so on. All data goes to excel (trying to enforce this). It was obvious that Thais did not consider having 20-25 piglets valuable business and did not focus. Now there is focus.

[IsaanAussie]

Welcome not to a newbie but to a grower entrenched in the Thai pig industry. Hi OBCMO, good luck to you. You seem pretty much aware of the risks and resigned to having to play the games within limits. I will watch what happens with interest.

[RedBullHorn]

Yeah, another seasoned player. The more the merrier...

Edited September 25, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[revar]

Omcbo,

Do tout hired helpers have an incentive like share of profit. My experience with them is that they are good for cleaning but no good at all for husbandry and checking the pigs/ piglets for sickness etc.

Why spend the effort if the money is the same and you can relax with your friends. O have had helpers with Community farm experience also and it made no difference

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[OBCMO]

Hi Revar,

Indeed I have seen that incentive or daily wage works the best. Also I have seen that every village is full of experts to "take care pigs". That means cleaning and feeding. Luckily my workers are able to look further and sees success as benefit for them. More work and more money in long run as well. Now they are planning sprinkler system on their own. Just need to wait the pigs get bigger and I need to get more info about the system.

The pigs arrived and got report that they are looking good and healthy.

-OBCMO

[thedoctor]

Just when you think its starting to get better ,

sold 9 pigs yesterday 97 -113kg 61bht kg got about 56000 ,, i say got but i didnt realy get much,,

told by many people dont let the pigs go if not paid for ,, so i drilled that into Dows head,, no money no pig,, ok,,understand ,,yes micheal

so she talks to many market sellers some good some not so good but the best one wanted the pigs,

came had a look last week and yesterday 5pm brought two trayback toyotas,, Dow told them again no money no pig ,, no problem

two familys one took 4 one took 5, one hr later one truck goes, Dow knows them well,

part of the relatives collection, Dow see's the two ladies exchanging money and off one family go, second family are sellers of pork in the kaset market.

the truck drives out the gate and waits for the last lady to pay the money and off they will go,,easy hey,,

not so,,

im clearing up, Dow hits the roof, and its on, the two families have only got 4000 bht betweeen them.

Dow calls me nearly in tears she tells me whats go on,, so i hit the roof now,,, i tell this last woman when i go 711 i pay cash or i dont get my food, when i buy pig food i pay cash or i dont get my pig food,

what makes her think she is different to me, i want the money,,, i not have, so bring the pigs back and unload,

then i got stuck into my love,, wrong of me i know, i said sorry later

they knew they couldnt pay but told her they could,

loaded the pigs and waited outside for the last woman to escape my venim

while me and Dow were at it in the shed the woman clears off quick smart,,

so now Dow is visiting the meat stall every morning until we get the full amount, they say 4 or 5 days

then the two families will be told where to go or where not to go [ my place ] after we get the money

talking to other people last night we find out many people have done a runner in the last few months after getting the pigs on credit saying they will pay when the meat sells,,

i know who wont be getting anymore pigs from us and from now on i want to see how much cash they have with them when they turn up

another happy day in wonderland

regards Mike

[thedoctor]

ok ill calm down now

got a pig about 25kg she had some kind of parasites when we got her at 10 kg and others at the same time,

so we gave ivermec and 5 of the 6 cleared up good no spots or scabs showing, good result

but one pig got traped in the feeder and scraped her back where she had bitemarks from parasites or other pigs,,

the sore grew bigger and is now an open wound about 70ml round in the centre of her back so we treated it daily with the purple antiseptic and after that didnt work a powder called nikersan ??

iv used 7 bottles of that powder to no avail, and given 2 penacilin injections told to do so by the local pharmacy pig medication supplier

any idea's on my next move,,

i wanted to put the pig down to save its pain but im hitting my head on a brick wall with that idea,,

i isolated it for a while to see if it got better but the pig just rubbed its back on the cage and tipped its food everywhere and didnt eat

more trouble then its worth

ps im looking for piglets at the moment but none around here,,

and i hear a lot of farms near yasothorn have a sickness and death is high so im giving that area a miss, were near RoiEt

regards mike

[RedBullHorn]

Me...Once a successful piggery farmer-turn-wholesaler-turn-exporter (If you read though Pig 101 and other threads related you will know ). Take it from me, never...ever...sells your pigs if there's no cash-on-the-spot !!! Even if there's a middleman involved whom will guarantee payment, be it middleman of big farm or super big farm cooperation, period !

I almost lost ฿285'000.- to a scum had i not made known to him who are my "big shot" peers that i play Poker with.

I don't farm pigs for the time being but I'm still delivering them in my Hino truck for my contact big farm for export.

Edited October 1, 2013 by RedBullHorn

[pigeonjake]

feeding time for the new lot, they seem to be coming on great,

touch wood

[IsaanAussie]

ok ill calm down now

got a pig about 25kg she had some kind of parasites when we got her at 10 kg and others at the same time,

so we gave ivermec and 5 of the 6 cleared up good no spots or scabs showing, good result

but one pig got traped in the feeder and scraped her back where she had bitemarks from parasites or other pigs,,

the sore grew bigger and is now an open wound about 70ml round in the centre of her back so we treated it daily with the purple antiseptic and after that didnt work a powder called nikersan ??

iv used 7 bottles of that powder to no avail, and given 2 penacilin injections told to do so by the local pharmacy pig medication supplier

any idea's on my next move,,

i wanted to put the pig down to save its pain but im hitting my head on a brick wall with that idea,,

i isolated it for a while to see if it got better but the pig just rubbed its back on the cage and tipped its food everywhere and didnt eat

more trouble then its worth

ps im looking for piglets at the moment but none around here,,

and i hear a lot of farms near yasothorn have a sickness and death is high so im giving that area a miss, were near RoiEt

regards mike

I'd suggest the original problem was mites, the ivermectin would have fixed the adults but maybe not the eggs. Now likely to be an infection. You could try continuing the antibiotics but you have to get rid of the itch. If you are game, cleanup the wound with hydrogen peroxide that will kill any bugs and remove dead flesh. But the pig ain't going to like it much. Put it in a crate first.

[pigeonjake]

ok ill calm down now

got a pig about 25kg she had some kind of parasites when we got her at 10 kg and others at the same time,

so we gave ivermec and 5 of the 6 cleared up good no spots or scabs showing, good result

but one pig got traped in the feeder and scraped her back where she had bitemarks from parasites or other pigs,,

the sore grew bigger and is now an open wound about 70ml round in the centre of her back so we treated it daily with the purple antiseptic and after that didnt work a powder called nikersan ??

iv used 7 bottles of that powder to no avail, and given 2 penacilin injections told to do so by the local pharmacy pig medication supplier

any idea's on my next move,,

i wanted to put the pig down to save its pain but im hitting my head on a brick wall with that idea,,

i isolated it for a while to see if it got better but the pig just rubbed its back on the cage and tipped its food everywhere and didnt eat

more trouble then its worth

ps im looking for piglets at the moment but none around here,,

and i hear a lot of farms near yasothorn have a sickness and death is high so im giving that area a miss, were near RoiEt

regards mike

I'd suggest the original problem was mites, the ivermectin would have fixed the adults but maybe not the eggs. Now likely to be an infection. You could try continuing the antibiotics but you have to get rid of the itch. If you are game, cleanup the wound with hydrogen peroxide that will kill any bugs and remove dead flesh. But the pig ain't going to like it much. Put it in a crate first.

i agree with IA ivermectin would of killed the mites but not the eggs,

the thing is with pigs once they see blood they are always at it,

so you have to move the pig, then if its away to long trouble when you move it back,

ive said many time on here about worming your pigs, dont just worm and then say that them done!,

do it again in 7 days, becouse there would of been eggs and they will of hatched, so another dose does the job,

the young pigs mac went and bought are doing great, no sickness, good poo, so im really pleased for her, ive told her to go and get another 20 in a couple of weeks, like we used to do when i was at home more,

ive been asked if i can extend me trip here working till 20 december, so ive changed my flight to 23rd,

but like ive said on here many time before, while im fit and earing good money ill keep at it,

it takes the presure of having to make big money on the pigs while we are still learning, ive found you never stop learning,

keep the thread going, its good to have a chat on here and see how we are all going,

ill take some pics when i get back,

maybe david could tell me how to take a video and upload that, i could give a tour of our place,,lol,

take care all

jake

[OBCMO]

When we sold our last batch of 19 pigs in Song Kran to a lady selling the meat in local market we got first half of the payment in about two weeks and another in 2-3 months. In that period she tried to sell us some land and tried to borrow 2M. When paying second half, which was 69.000, she asked for discount 1.000. At that moment we just took the money and gave discount. I am ready to give time to pay but I want something in return. Interest or higher price. Also in our other business I've seen that they will pay, eventually. But we are getting more and more careful.

Our 100 piglets seem to be ok. Few had some cough. Workers are suspecting EVAP to open air change or concrete dust might be the reason. They gave some medicin anyway. I am flying back on Saturday and hopefull will have time to visit the farm. Not that I can help much but I can google and ask you guys to challenge the workers. :-)

[RedBullHorn]

<deleted> man... you're on credit, i should charge more~ you want discount some more !!!

[tingtong]

here for us, the pattaya rule apply:

no money, no honey..i mean pigs.

prefer a deposit for booking, showing that buyer means biz, else no booking, reservation, or whatever.

i know, i know, though times and all, but just as we dont have things on credit, wont have any strangers from us neither.

[pigeonjake]

When we sold our last batch of 19 pigs in Song Kran to a lady selling the meat in local market we got first half of the payment in about two weeks and another in 2-3 months. In that period she tried to sell us some land and tried to borrow 2M. When paying second half, which was 69.000, she asked for discount 1.000. At that moment we just took the money and gave discount. I am ready to give time to pay but I want something in return. Interest or higher price. Also in our other business I've seen that they will pay, eventually. But we are getting more and more careful.

Our 100 piglets seem to be ok. Few had some cough. Workers are suspecting EVAP to open air change or concrete dust might be the reason. They gave some medicin anyway. I am flying back on Saturday and hopefull will have time to visit the farm. Not that I can help much but I can google and ask you guys to challenge the workers. :-)

sorry i dont get this at all,

im not having a go at you, its your business,

but you say you dont mind giving them time to pay,

you say im ready to give time to pay but i want something in return,

then after holding onto YOUR money for 2,3 months they ask for discount of another1000bht and you give it,

be very very carefull because one day you will get turned over,

there not botherd if they never buy another pig from you, there are plenty more famers with a few pigs to sell, they will turn you over,

ive never let the buyers take a pig away from me without paying, yes they have asked,, but ive just said no money no pigs,

take care

jake

[thedoctor]

We went looking a piglets yesterday , there is some about for about 12000-13000 each look about 8kg, but a lot of what we saw has scabs on them

looked like parasite, or fly bite for all in know ,, which isnt much ,,

we were told of another place where they had piglets but when we got there they didnt have any but his son has some 20 mins away so ill go there monday he isnt home this weekend,

while the missus was talking to the older guy she mentioned that we had sold some and not been paid,, he asked her who did you sell to,,,she told him,,

he then told her the lady we sold to went to his place this morning to buy more pigs but he wouldnt sell to her because she still ows him 30,000 from the last lot she bought, and its taken him months just to get half of what he sold for, he gets 1000 here 1000 there just bits at a time, and now she has a bad name in the market and she isnt the only one,,

he also told her about a buyer at another market where they give you a note to take to the bangkok bank, and the bank pays you the money

must be some kind of check or line of credit ,,

Also i had a piglet bit by a scorpion the other day it looked like it was going to die pail, shivering couldnt get up ,ears bloodshot the pig was cold looked close to death so Dow called the vet and he was busy but told her what to buy and to inject into the pig asap ANTROPINE SULPHAT i injected him 5 times ,, 4 hrs apart in total and he is fine now the bite has left a 50cent piece size black circle under his stomach where he got bit,, from that i was told spread lime around outside the sheds it will stop scorpions going over it,, we have lots here big and small

mick

[pigeonjake]

i no some on here say dont have chickens round the pigs,

but we do, and they keep the scorpians away,

[revar]

Bought A new batch of 25 piglets yesterday between 8-20 Kg. Paid for 26 (80Thb/kg). They had 5 left with 'problem.

1 thin (5Kg), 1 leg-Problem (9Kg), 1 Mange (26kg), 1 with some kind of growth of brown growth of 2cm under the belly (I suggested it was the intestine but it isn't) (16 KG) and 1 blind.(9Kg). I offered 2000 for the 5 and got them. The blind one spend the day carefully walking along the walls learning it's new environment And is adapting. The thin one is already getting bigger, ivermectin is already clearing up some of the mange, the leg-Problem one is walking and the last one is fine also. Sometimes it is smart to get piglets with minor problems (the normal price of the 26kg one would be a lot more then what I paid for 5.

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[IsaanAussie]

PJ and Revar, you guys must be saints. One invites problems inviting the chickens in, and the other tries to cure every problem. 555555

[revar]

Bless you my son:)

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[RedBullHorn]

PJ...10+++ year ago the chickens and pigs living in harmony together...because the diseases and viruses are not as...what they are this days. They have mutated into something more dangerous and some had mutate to the level it can be pass on to humans. You really need to seperate the chickens and pigs, they cannot be raise close to each other. Period. Just a friendly reminder~

[IsaanAussie]

PJ...10+++ year ago the chickens and pigs living in harmony together...because the diseases and viruses are not as...what they are this days. They have mutated into something more dangerous and some had mutate to the level it can be pass on to humans. You really need to seperate the chickens and pigs, they cannot be raise close to each other. Period. Just a friendly reminder

Biosecurity has become the watch word in the industry. But there is only so must you can do. How can you defend against these viral diseases airborne transferred over several kilometres? How do you ensure the vaccines you use is effective and not contaminated? My opinion is simple, you can't, not here!

I took the view that the best defense was a biologically "clean" environment that made for healthy animals and harder for the nasties to get a foothold. But I was lucky that there are no large farms of either pigs or chickens near me. Most "threat potential" was wild birds. They can travel long distances quickly and are a lot harder to keep out. Village chickens, by comparison, were a pain in the backside because of the mess they make, but only presented an insect pest issue.

Now the owners of "those" chickens, that is another story!

[revar]

Hi Mick. Well done with the scorpion bite but are you sure it was one? Had a piglet stung today. Died within 20 minutes.

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[revar]

Big scorpion problems at the moment. lost 2 50+kg pigs to them today. Bringing the total up to 5 this month. Byby profit. Yesterday evening checked at night and killed 24! All on the walls of the pens. Sealed all holes In the walls with cement. Today evening found 5 more. Any tips are appreciated.

I think the rain is driving then to my nice high dry walls. We already are using lime around the pens.

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Edited October 14, 2013 by revar

[Falang Nang Fa]

I have from the start a gutter from allow 20 cm wide and 15 cm deep around my stable. There is always water in it.

I think scorpions can not swim because never had 1 scorpion with my pigs. Outside regularly a scorpion (big and small).

Maybe do the same.

Chris

[HenkBeekhuis]

plant lavender around ur farm, scorpions cant stand it, and its cheap, and it smells good, and it looks pretty? hahaha.

Another thing is to put up traps, sticky tape, put on some cockroaches etc...

buy a uv light and a bbgun and shoot them..

Get a few cats..

take away there food source aka other bugs and critters, if they cant feed in the barn they wont go there. <- this is the most difficult but effective 1