Pigs 101 (A Start)

[claynlr]

Thanks for the info and photos Revar. Your pigs look great! What is the weight of your pigs at about 4 months since April 10? Will you give a guess as to the weight of my GF's pigs from the photos? Thanks man!

[claynlr]

This is the prices she is paying for Betagro

[claynlr]

Revar and Jake- Can you please give me a plan to try to get these pigs (photos) to 100 kilo using Betagro? I think they are around 70 now and some of the younger are 60....Use 303? How many bags per pig do you think it will take?

I want to try to get these sold and come up with a better business plan for the next batch (different mama and papa...only Betagro...)

[revar]

they look around 70 kg.

give them 2 bags 302 each, then 1 303 if they havent reached 100 yet.

303 is for 90-100.

[revar]

there are 2 betagro recommended ways of using betagro feed. moo baan or 'farm way"

farm way from 15kg-100kg:

each pig eats

1/3 301 + 2/3 301L mixed (15-25kg)

3*301B (25-60kg)

2*302 (60-90kg)

1*303 (90-100kg)

this worked for me when I bought piglets.

301 and 301L are basicly the same but 301 contains

milk. both contain various medicines to combat diarea and other disseases common in small piglets.

I breed my own now and have them drink at the mother 4 weeks minimum. this ensures that their intestines develop well and I dont need to use 301 and only 1/6th 301L . from 15kg they now eat 301B and are at 60kg after 3 bags. but that needs very good piglets to start with

(If i got too many i sell them at 2500 bath, much higher then official cp piglets of 1600-2000, still buyers are calling all the time).

[pigeonjake]

how can anyone turn a proffit buying piglets at 2500 bht?

so you keep them on there mothers till they are 4 weeks? and they dont have any creep feed?

[revar]

not much profit I agree, but they reach 100kg with 5 bags of feed instead of 7.

and no need of expensive creep feed or milk based feeds.

Also this way of feeding produces lots of red meat and minimal fat. red meat is heavier and my meatpig buyers pay me a higher price/kg then for moo baan.

btw. when a piglet is weaned it has already cost me 900-1200 thb in costs of mothersfeed, cost of sow (based on 10 litters of 10) etc.

if i would sell at 1500 i wont make much profit. so i raise them myself.

food and other costs are between 2500-3000 so i got a nice profit. ( i do gwt a discount on my betagro feed, having been a betagro sub-dealer myself:) )

i believe some of those who buy use them as gilts.

i dont sell often, only if i cant raise them myself.

no i dont use any creep feed or milk based feed at all anymore. about 2 weeks after being born they generally start to nibble on spilled feed from the mother. after 3 weeks the sow throws some out on purpose and they eat it next to drinking her milk.

the use of EM in drinking water also stimulates their intestines.

Edited August 7, 2015 by revar

[revar]

3weeks old, bad litter after 3 times 12+ only 4 piglets this time

[revar]

7 weeks old, 18-25 kg

[revar]

-2 weeks

[revar]

creep feed is for sizzies, we eat mamma's food

we are moving out in 2 days.

Edited August 7, 2015 by revar

[revar]

after5 years betagro, i finaly go switch to perfect.

I tried their food a couple of times and got similar results as with betagro.

But now they offered me a deal I cant resist.

it includes:

- slightly lower price for feed

- they buy all my pigs at farm price (cp-price) if i bring them to 110 kg. (thats an exra profit of thb 550-800 a pig:))

-monthly delivery of feed

-free vaccinations and medicines.

- monthly vet visits.

-if i got extra piglets they buy these at farm price too.

only thing left to negotiate is amount of credit.

Things are looking good

[thoongfoned]

after5 years betagro, i finaly go switch to perfect.

I tried their food a couple of times and got similar results as with betagro.

But now they offered me a deal I cant resist.

it includes:

- slightly lower price for feed

- they buy all my pigs at farm price (cp-price) if i bring them to 110 kg. (thats an exra profit of thb 550-800 a pig:))

-monthly delivery of feed

-free vaccinations and medicines.

- monthly vet visits.

-if i got extra piglets they buy these at farm price too.

only thing left to negotiate is amount of credit.

Things are looking good

excellent, well done! all that hard work looks like it is paying you back well. good luck for the future.......

[nutterz64]

after5 years betagro, i finaly go switch to perfect.

I tried their food a couple of times and got similar results as with betagro.

But now they offered me a deal I cant resist.

it includes:

- slightly lower price for feed

- they buy all my pigs at farm price (cp-price) if i bring them to 110 kg. (thats an exra profit of thb 550-800 a pig:))

-monthly delivery of feed

-free vaccinations and medicines.

- monthly vet visits.

-if i got extra piglets they buy these at farm price too.

only thing left to negotiate is amount of credit.

Things are looking good

That's fantastic Revar. Congratulations. Now i assume that you didn't get this deal just because you buy of perfect. What else were they looking for to offer you this. Would love some tips on how to approach this myself. We are getting nothing near farm gate from our buyer.

I am seriously considering substantialy increasing the size of our farm up in Udon but am a bit nervous about our buyer.

[revar]

Lol, i havent even bought much perfect before. They have been trying to hook me for over a year.

They have visited my farm a couple of times, both sales and vets. Earlier good offers i refused because of loyalty to my current supplier. This seemed to impress them .

They also bought some pigs from me before and were impressed with the quality of meat.

What they are looking for are small but professionally run farms. High standards of hygiene, procedures, farm administration. No compromising on quality by mixing feed. Consistent quality of produced finished pigs.

No bought piglets and quality sows and sperm. In our case Betagro sows and saragorn sperm. Biosecurity should be good.

Farms should have been around for a few years to show commitment.

Last important factor to offer me this, according to the vet, was animal welfare.

They believe that the use of cages might be discouraged in the future (like in Europe).

They are reasonably new and compete with cp and betagro in both feed, but also in meat supply.

Instead of using big contract farms like these do, they are looking for the smaller semi-professional farms.

They want to focus on quality and animal welfare is a good sales point for the higher price meat market. Organic would be great to, but that's hard in Thailand.

Ps are u by chance a Scottish farmer who uses Perfect? They mentioned one in your province who they want to bring for a visit to my farm.

[pigeonjake]

well done raver,,, well done

[Allgeier]

Here some pictures from our pigs:

Toy for play

I not cut the tail, so i give them every day stroh and gras to keep them busy. Only for this. I feed them with commercial feed and mix also by my self.

I have one sow and 7 pigs. If i get a dealer who buy my pigs for sure i will maybe have more.

Normaly my plan is to rise them in a organic way, but who will buy after?

[revar]

Mixed results today

First sow 3rd litter got 17 piglets in just 2.5 hours.

(only 13 nipples )

Second sow finally has her first litter after 1.5 years but 6 piglets in 6 hours now and i don't think she is finished. None has come in 2 hours now but i can still feel some inside.

But the biggest problem is that she wont any of them drink. Throwing them and biting them as she sees them.

Also very aggressive towards me, bit me hard on the arm.

Letting them drink at first sow now and try to place them back later if the aggressive in is asleep.

Hopefully if they learned how to drink she will accept them as the suckle.

[revar]

Second afterbirth passed, dont think any more piglets inside. She hasnt had any stuck inside ( can and do get in to over elbow). Still aggressive towards piglets. But only aggressive towards me if I take the piglets.

Shes calling to them to come but if they do and wander close to her face she gets aggressive (biting, tossing and chasing)

Tranquilizing her now with 2cc acepromazine. (IM, no way i can do it IV).

After 45 minutes she seems asleep and let's them suckle but sometimes she still makes an aggressive head move (but doesnt get up and chase, especially if they move higher then her front legs.

If they suckle she now makes the content mother sounds.

[revar]

Didn't work. A second dose of2cc didnt make her less agressive to them.

Having them drink for 30 minutes at first sow every 2-3 hours.

Shes nursing 23 piglets now on 13 nipples.

Gave the bad mum 4cc this time. Shes dripping milk all over the place but is still extremely stressed out.

Not expecting much sleep the next week

Hope switching piglets every 3 hours works. No time to bottle feed.

Ps next one due on 25th, 28th, 31th, 1st, 2nd

[revar]

Even 8 cc could not make her accept them. She killed one. Now the other 5 are with the first sow whos suckling 22 piglets.

[thoongfoned]

from time to time we also have the "angry" mums, had 3 over the past week. in all 3 cases each time they give birth they are aggressive, it seems that some mums are just this way, all three of these mums are parity 3 or over, company tells us just to cull them, but every month we are short of pigs for AI so we keep them, they all give plus 12 every time thats why we keep them, if they were under 10 they would go. do not keep repeat mum if under 10 more than twice......

try and tie the mums mouth shut with some strong string, most of the time the mums manage to get it off but one mum the other day kept it on for 12 plus hours, she was dosed up to the eye bulls though, about 10cc of combi stress, in one dose, she is only small body frame though parity 3, so this kept her quite for a day of so. larger animals will need more have seen 20cc injected to very large mums and they are still on their feet -angry..... try not to give to much or the milk will dry up. that parity 3 was still up drinking eating ect.... so 10cc was about right for her.

thats the problem you will face if only one birth a day or large numbers born per mum, hard to split the litter ups nice.

is that that sow you said would not AI before?

[nutterz64]

14 new additions last night. This from one of our farm bred Gilts. She is Landrace covered by our Duroc Boar.

Unfortunately i am back in Oz so not there to weigh them. Apparently they all arrived very quickly so weighing was forgotten.

Cant wait to get back there full time again when this contract comes to an end.

Revar, thank you for sharing that info re your supplier. We have only been going for 18 months but you have given me something to aim for.

So far we have only had one aggressive sow but only mildly so for the first few hrs. Then she comes good.

Happy farming all.

[nutterz64]

Ooops this photo is a neighbor enjoying the placenta this morning.

[nutterz64]

The photo i meant to post.

[thoongfoned]

The photo i meant to post.

they look a good size anyway, 14 on a first litter that's the way to go............

have you tried that after birth from the pigs? people round here almost fight over it...... can not bring myself to try it, even the dogs at our nice home don't eat it! our farm dogs like it though, same breed and blood line as the one from the other house "life", must be higher strung. that white whisky can only add to the flavor me thinks..................

[nutterz64]

Yes mate i admit i have tried it. It's ok but can't get the picture of it landing on the dirty poo covered floor and then sitting in a dirty bucket for a couple of hours before they get around to cooking it, out of my head. Only the men seem to eat it. The women here love cow placenta and pay a premium for it. 350 baht a kg.

Edited August 23, 2015 by nutterz64

[revar]

After almost 2 days shes finaly accepting them.

We have let them drink at both her when she was passed out and at other sow. Locking them in the creep area in between. After 1.5 day she finaly lay on her side and responded to their calling by calling back.

As long as they dont go near her face or neck shes is lying quietly with that content look of a sow being suckled upon.

But if they go near her face she will nosebud them away.

She also freaks out if she sees a syringe or needle. I think this may be the cause.

She hates needles and before and during birth she was injected repeatedly . she might associate that with the piglets.

5 of the 6 survived, one was crushed.

Now im actually trying to foster 4 of the 17 of sow1 on her:)

But my wife gotto do most, she still is afraid of me. The guy with the needles.

Next to the 6 healthy born ones she had another full size piglet.

But her legs were fixed in lotus position, so i euthanized that one.

I might give her another chance if she nurses good now.

And yes she is the one who wouldn't AI.

Im not trying that afterbirth btw. We always give that to an uncle who enjoys it and will come collect it in the middle of the night if necessary.

Tomorrow our first home breed gilt will deliver.

She has a Betagro 100%LW mother and CP 100% Pietrain father.

Exited about that one. Hope she does well.

Edited August 24, 2015 by revar

[Allgeier]

Second sow finally has her first litter after 1.5 years

I have a question to revar:

What was your reason to wait so long for her first litter? This are 18 Month.

In my case. If she not get be pregnat with 11 Month + 4 Month = 15 Month. I will take here away.

Start the first time with 8 Month and about 120 kg and not to fat. This is what i now. But i am open for new opinions.

[thoongfoned]

After almost 2 days shes finaly accepting them.

We have let them drink at both her when she was passed out and at other sow. Locking them in the creep area in between. After 1.5 day she finaly lay on her side and responded to their calling by calling back.

As long as they dont go near her face or neck shes is lying quietly with that content look of a sow being suckled upon.

But if they go near her face she will nosebud them away.

She also freaks out if she sees a syringe or needle. I think this may be the cause.

She hates needles and before and during birth she was injected repeatedly . she might associate that with the piglets.

5 of the 6 survived, one was crushed.

Now im actually trying to foster 4 of the 17 of sow1 on her:)

But my wife gotto do most, she still is afraid of me. The guy with the needles.

Next to the 6 healthy born ones she had another full size piglet.

But her legs were fixed in lotus position, so i euthanized that one.

I might give her another chance if she nurses good now.

And yes she is the one who wouldn't AI.

Im not trying that afterbirth btw. We always give that to an uncle who enjoys it and will come collect it in the middle of the night if necessary.

Tomorrow our first home breed gilt will deliver.

She has a Betagro 100%LW mother and CP 100% Pietrain father.

Exited about that one. Hope she does well.

a bit late but good too remember for next time, always move (if you have too) girls from mum to foster mum, they 100 percent take quicker then the boys do, at any age from what I can see. I read this somewhere before and it works for us.......