Man Shot At Stockwell Tube Station

[chuchok]

My fav subject.......   Shhhh.

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Not wanting to be too rude Udon(Honest!)...have you got a Roo in there.

[udon]

Stick a t on that and the ansa is still "no"

[chuchok]

Stick a t on that and the ansa is still "no" 

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[dr_Pat_Pong]

Being bereft of an Al Jolson tape or two must be a bugger for a lad confined to a garden shed in Sinnee

[bartender100]

Why don't we have a disscusion on the 25,000 innocent Iraq,s killed?Is one more that important.

He should have stopped,I bet thats the question his family will ask themselfs as well.

[Thomas_Merton]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4713199.stm

'Shoot-to-kill' policy to remain

Police leaders say they will not abandon their "shoot-to-kill" policy and warn more innocent people could be killed in the fight against terrorism.

The message came after Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes, 27, was shot dead by officers in London after being mistaken for a suicide bomber.

Met Police Chief Sir Ian Blair said "shoot-to-kill in order to protect" would continue, despite the "tragedy".

Police are still questioning three men in connection with Thursday's attacks.

Sir Ian has apologised for the killing of Mr Menezes, but defended the actions of his officers.

[planemad]

This is indeed a tragedy and my personal condolences to the family for this dreadful incident, however, from the moment the terrorists detonated their bombs on 7/7, this incident became more and more likely.

We, the public want instant action, that’s human nature. The government must be seen do be doing something and the security forces must therefore raise their profile to try to restore confidence.

Early response in this thread initially praised the police for having stopped a terrorist (of course there were a few who quite rightly questioned this turn of events). This quickly changed to condemnation and recrimination for having got it wrong. So many “what if’s”, sure, if it was a member of my family that had died, then I would be wanting answers, if on the other hand this guy was carrying a bomb, then what would we say to those who subsequently lose innocent family members?

As to the incident itself, I think there is probably as much missing from this account as that already made public. It appears that the address was under surveillance and, given the conditions, this guy appears to have dressed suspiciously and he is an electrician, was he carrying any tools of the trade, wire etc? He then catches a bus why not stop him now? Well, if he was carrying a bomb, how would you detain him without fear of causing another tragedy on the bus? He then alights at a tube station, apparently vaults a ticket barrier and fails to stop when commanded to. At this point, I suggest that the armed police were “twitching” to say the least (how many of you have carried loaded guns with a high probability that you will have to administer lethal force? It is a ###### of a responsibility and one not understood easily). The rest is sad history, an innocent life lost and a sudden lack of confidence in the police, at this point, I suggest the terrorists are having an effect in London!

From the outset of this campaign, the world media has commented upon the resilience of the British people and especially Londoners. So, this is a setback, but it is not the end. We are at war, let’s not pretend that we arn’t, in war, innocent people die. Let’s concentrate on winning this war rather than spend time fighting amongst ourselves, that’s exactly what the terrorists want!

[The_Moog]

The Brazilian was on a Student visa. It had already expired.

[bkkmadness]

So if what the Moog has said is correct info and considering he has been mentioned numerous times as an electrician it looks like a good probablity that he was running from getting caught with no visa and deported then?

[britmaveric]

Yep - he was guilty. However bear in my mind when someone says you will be shot think deportation is a better alternative.

Edited July 25, 2005 by britmaveric

[Thomas_Merton]

So if what the Moog has said is correct info and considering he has been mentioned numerous times as an electrician it looks like a good probablity that he was running from getting caught with no visa and deported then?

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Well, you never know, we might be able to re-introduce the phrase "Fair cop, guvner, you've caught me" or for the more educated "mea culpa" - instead of running away every time we are confronted with the Law and the possibility of having to pay for our crime (however insignificant you may think having a student visa and then working illegally is compared to the tragic consequences the Brazilian's run for "freedom").

It's just a thought.

[RDN]

New London blast at Holborn Tube Station

30+ fatalities – including 3 undercover policemen

LONDON: -- The Tube has been plunged into chaos again and several stations evacuated after a suicide bomber detonated a bomb at Holborn Tube station.

Met Police chief Sir Ian Blair said three undercover police officers were killed in the blast, together with the terrorist and at least 30 commuters.

Eyewitnesses said they saw a man being chased by police onto the tube train and had apparently been overpowered.

As the suicide bomber was pinned to the floor, shouts of “Kill him, now!” were heard by many bystanders apparently coming from some of the armed policemen surrounding the suspect. Seconds later, the bomb exploded.

Is that the story you bleeding hearts would rather have read?

[The_Moog]

RDN: Are you a Moderator or a jackass?

Don't print fictional stories to make your point.

[JemJem]

Idiot !!

To make a point (a typical right-wing style point, by the way), why do you have to resort to such a way ? My TV was not on and when I saw the top part of your post, I thought that it was really another bomb attack.

Fools like you are, well,.......fools !

Nuff said !

Jem

[britmaveric]

I do admit I surfed over to BBC News after reading that one , however that being said I think RDN is rather right - seems alot of you are missing the point.

[mariana]

I feel sorry for the Brazilian , maybe he didn't stop because he didn't understand english.

The darling police of London should think at least 10 times before shoting to someone.

[The_Moog]

Given that RDN yesterday was shrieking about people not discussing the subject sensibly, its ironic that he should be the one to make up a phoney story.

An ordinary member would be banned for such a stunt.

I have reported his post.

[britmaveric]

Mariana - according to his cousin he knew perfect english.

[mariana]

Mariana - according to his cousin he knew perfect english.

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Brit ,

Thanks for the info ,however i think that the police shoudn't have killed him

[bkkmadness]

I think RDN's posat was fine because he made his point in the way he knew how to, but of course the other way round, a member doing that disagreeing with a mod it would have been deleted or something.

The fact of the matter is as I see it, not whether they should have shot him once he reached the train, but how did this potential bomber get all the way to the train without being stopped beforehand?

It was not a case of this guys life or other peoples lives at all, he could have been dealt with beforehand.

I notice a few people seem to fail to grasp this. It should never have been the situation it became.

[bartender100]

I agree with RDN,a good way to put over the point.

That could have easily been the headline,and the police had to take action

The young guy was not thinking clearly at the time or he would have stopped and thats unfortunate,but we will probably never know the full facts.

By the way,may I suggest the thread is closed, as its in my name.Friends are starting to fall out.Nobody is going to be right or wrong on this one.

Edited July 25, 2005 by bartender100

[mcfester]

Mariana - according to his cousin he knew perfect english.

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Brit ,

Thanks for the info ,however i think that the police shoudn't have killed him

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If you read RDN's post you can see what might have happened if they didn't shoot him.

Who in the right mind would run from police in the heightened security? And of all places run on to a tube train?

I stand by the police and agree that the shoot to kill policy stands.

I just hope that the officers involved don't have to stand trail for this at a later date, which is what normally happens as with our boys over in Iraq.

I don't know the law but will the family be able to press charges or take legal action against the officers?

There was some talk that the SAS was involved, if this is the case, my advice to anyone planning on running from them is these boys don't mess around, they are highly trained killers and won't lose any sleep even if they have killed an innocent person, to them a kill is a kill, its just a job.

[RDN]

I agree with bartender. We're never all going to agree on this. My post was certainly aimed to shock for a few seconds until you then read my text at the bottom. I didn't think anyone would think it was real - but if you did, now you know why he was shot. It could have been just like that.

I also feel very sorry for him and his relatives. A sad mistake.

Enough said.