Characteristics Of Thai Violent Behaviour

[thaibebop]

Have seen too many incedents.Some of the worst at late night concerts in the villages of Isaan.Once the young lads get liqoured up you know why the security people(usually poo yai and his mates)have pump action shotguns.Brawls start up quickly and a free for all starts with twenty + involved in seconds it only takes one with a knife and several are cut.I'm gone,could easily turn on the farang next.In the morning the talk is about who got slashed or once even killed.These concerts are on almost weekly at certain times of the year.All the local villages go with bigger ones having several thousand spectators.Trouble starts when the families drift away after midnight.Lots of kids have weapons hidden away in the darkness and undergrowth ready for trouble.Tempers flare quickly.

On Koh Chang I regret to say I once watched a young thai man beating his girlfriend so bad I thought he would kill her.He had a mate with him who just casually watched.I was restrained by the person I was with,and told I would have the two of them and likely her as well attack me if I helped.

Seen many incedents in Pattaya as well.Never ever get involved.Thai jails and hospitals are there if you do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's two posts I have seen about Thai women being beaten but attacking someone who is trying to stop the beating. I know this behavior happens world over, but could some one explain it to me. I mean do they want, or think they should be beaten? Why would they have that mind set? Is this like abusive husbands or different?

[Heng]

I think they view it as their business, not yours. Kind of like if you just barged into some strangers kitchen and told them the right way to do a pot roast. If many parts of the world, you'd be shot by the woman, man, and sometimes children of the house.

[thaibebop]

I think they view it as their business, not yours.  Kind of like if you just barged into some strangers kitchen and told them the right way to do a pot roast.  If many parts of the world, you'd be shot by the woman, man, and sometimes children of the house. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, they would respond that way even it was another Thai who tried to step in?

[helitool]

If you type "international crime rates" into google you can get a comparison of the number of murders that occur per year in various countries. Thailand is number 3. The only reason that it is not number one is that Columbia and Africa are one and two! Out of 50 countries guess who number 4 is? Us Americans, gosh... I'm so proud!

Another interesting Fact is that there are nearly 7 times more burglaries per capita in the US than in Thailand. Of course one has to wonder how accurate the reporting of crimes is in the various countries, particuraly Thailand. When you look at Europian countries the murder rate drops from thousands down to a couple of hundred. New Zealand has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.

[thaibebop]

If you type  "international crime rates" into google you can get a comparison of the number of murders that occur per year in various countries. Thailand is number 3. The only reason that it is not number one is that Columbia and Africa are one and two! Out of 50 countries guess who number 4 is? Us Americans, gosh... I'm so proud!

    Another interesting Fact is that there are nearly 7 times more burglaries per capita in the US than in Thailand. Of course one has to wonder how accurate the reporting of crimes is in the various countries, particuraly Thailand. When you look at Europian countries the murder rate drops from thousands down to a couple of hundred. New Zealand has one of the lowest murder rates in the world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not surprised about us Americans, after all the country was founded in blood, rised in blood. I am not proud of this. I do wonder why Americans complain so much about violence all over the world. The news in L.A. over the little girl that was shot by the police seemed to close to starting a riot. But, we still complain about the violence over seas.

[Heng]

I think they view it as their business, not yours.   Kind of like if you just barged into some strangers kitchen and told them the right way to do a pot roast.   If many parts of the world, you'd be shot by the woman, man, and sometimes children of the house.  

So, they would respond that way even it was another Thai who tried to step in?

Who knows? Some people would react the same. Some would react like some falangs would react if a black person barged into their home with pot roast advice.

Edited July 24, 2005 by Heng

[Neeranam]

QUOTE(thaibebop @ 2005-07-24 05:57:35)

QUOTE(Heng @ 2005-07-24 11:29:20)

I think they view it as their business, not yours.   Kind of like if you just barged into some strangers kitchen and told them the right way to do a pot roast.   If many parts of the world, you'd be shot by the woman, man, and sometimes children of the house.  

So, they would respond that way even it was another Thai who tried to step in?

Who knows? Some people would react the same. Some would react like some falangs would react if a black person barged into their home with pot roast advice.

Ha ha, I find that hilarious for some reason

I tell many guys who complain about being a farang that, especially upcountry, when they see a farang is it similar to 30 years ago in my home town, seeing a 7 feet tall black man, very unusual and of course we all looked and said some perhaps what he thought were racial things, but they weren't meant to be.

So, they would respond that way even it was another Thai who tried to step in?

Yes they would, that's why Thais don't get involved. Another case of us farang trying to apply our principles in a country that is not ours.

Edited July 24, 2005 by Neeranam

[kat]

Just look around and pay attention. From the top of the political sphere (such as the PM or ASEAN) you always hear the term "non-intervention". I think it is the same sentiment at work in the kitchen or on the street. Asian cultures tend to view family or group rights as greater than the individual.

[leftcross]

No need to worry. Some people like to live their lives in fear of (smaller!!!) others.

Thai men are friendly, just like Thai women, and you won't have problems. All this sh ite about Thai men being 'THE BOGEYMAN' is hilarious.

[Boo]

some sense from leftcross Try butting into a fight outside a night club in the UK (as an example) & see how quick you get knifed or punched or worse. I saw it a lot on my youth in London, club spills out, 2 guys start fighting about a perceived slight or over a girl, the mates get involved & the whole thing descends to chaos, the rozzers are called & when the crowd clears, some poor mug is on the floor with blade sticking out of him or with a mashed up face.

[glefs]

I often see posts of the following sort:

"...oh, watch out for them, if you upset him he will come back with a gang and beat you up..."

or

"...don't get into a fight in Thailand because even if you win they will get a group and attack you..."

or

"...if the Thais start fighting then they start killing people..."

I am curious about this and whether it is usually true.

Has anybody here personally experienced such things or do they believe it to be true?

Of course people coming back later with a bunch of their friends can happen anywhere but is it a real phenomenon here?

Surely it is not necessary to treat everybody here as though they are an inch away from murder? Do the men here relish the thought that they must be given consideration as a potential murderer or am i wildly misinformed?

And my apologies in advance if i have been expressed myself offensively.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fanciman,

I certainly wouldn't put everyone in Thailand into that catergory but there does seem to be (to me at any rate) a propensity for things to escalate out of control here quite quickly.

I'll give you an example: My wife and I have a small general store here and recently we had some new people move in next door. There are 2 brothers and their mother and one brother (the eldest) has his young daughter living there as well (she is probably about 7 or 8y/o).

One night the eldest guy had gone out on the p#ss and while he was out his daughter awoke and started crying and screaming as he wasn't there. His mother and youngest brother had been up for a couple of hours trying to settle her down without much success.

He arrived home and immediately a large argument broke out between himself and the younger sibbling and in a very short time things got nasty. I was outside having a couple of drinks with a friend and trying to ignore it all when the boys mother started screaming.

Not knowing much Thai at all and being loathe to get involved in peoples domestic disputes especially when they don't speak english I never the less accompanied my friend next door to see what was going on.

I arrived to see the eldest brother trying to stab the youngest brother with a large carving knife and the only thing in between was their mother who was holding the eldest back (and failing) with the daughter watching and screaming in the background.

I grabbed the guy from behind all the while trying to tell him to calm down (which was a bit difficult to do) and managed to hold him down while my friend took the knife off him.

He was eventually convinced by some people he knew who turned up to see what all the commotion was about to leave and go to the karaoke bar down the road.

I was finally told that it was all over the youngest giving the eldest a bit of lip over him not being at home to look after his daughter. There were other issues that were bought up as well but that was the instigating one.

I was stunned that something could escalate that quickly and with that sort of severe reaction. There was no fist fight it was srtaight to the knife department.

Maybe I've been leading too sheltered a life but someone would have to do something atrocious to me or my family before I'd even consider a knife let alone picking one up.

So I guess I don't think that everyone is an inch away from murder but I do think things get out of control here a lot more quickly than I'm certainly used to anyway but to clear up any misconceptions I haven't personally had any problems here at all with anyone with regard to threats, violence etc even the guy next door had no problem with me when it was all over.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[chechoie]

A man may fight for many things. His country, his friends, his principles, the glistening tear on the cheek of a golden child. But personally, I'd mud-wrestle my own mother for a ton of cash, and a sack of porn.

(Blackadder)

[leftcross]

too true Boo, seen in myself many times in the UK.

i've also been on the receiving end of unprovoked attacks a few times in England, something i doubt would happen here.

it's a joke when people say 'thai men and booze don't mix be careful etc etc etc'. i've been in places where thai men have been absolutely hammered and never had any problems (real thai bars).

in fact i'd go as far to say all this 'thai men blah blah' stuff is just plain racist. jesus, these people are the friendliest on the planet and yet some posters still find a way to say something negative. that says a lot more about them than it does thai men.........

[meom]

Agree with Leftcross. The only problems I've ever had in LOS were with other falangs, never with Thais.

But still if Thailand is number 3 in the world for murders/capita somebody must be killing someone somewhere?

[bkkmadness]

too true Boo, seen in myself many times in the UK.

i've also been on the receiving end of unprovoked attacks a few times in England, something i doubt would happen here.

it's a joke when people say 'thai men and booze don't mix be careful etc etc etc'. i've been in places where thai men have been absolutely hammered and never had any problems (real thai bars).

in fact i'd go as far to say all this 'thai men blah blah' stuff is just plain racist. jesus, these people are the friendliest on the planet and yet some posters still find a way to say something negative. that says a lot more about them than it does thai men.........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said Leftcross, though by looking at your avatar I would expect you not to get too much hassle anyway.

Its something I have always thought since I first come to Thailand, you get massive clubs full of working class Thais (Hollywoods for example), they get fuelled up on whiskey and though there maybe on occaisions incidents, I have never witnessed one.

Try packing a club out in any big UK city, fill it full of young working class lads and give them a bottle of whiskey to get hammered on, it would be fights all over the place. Police vans would have to stand by outside the club everynight to deal with the trouble as is what happens in many of the UK's drinking entertainment areas. The only reason a lot of UK clubs are peaceful is because booze is not the drug of choice in many of them.

I've very rarely seen the Thais kick off at each other after a session of the booze, in comparison to local pubs back home where Friday and Saturday nights guaranteed trouble.

At least when it does kick off in Thailand there is some reason, albeit often a stupid one ie. girl, money borrowed etc. In the UK the violence is so random, and even more frightening because of the fact you often can't avoid it.

Be honest, how many of you in this forum have had trouble of a violent nature come your way from the Thais? On the odd occaision it has come my way in Bangkok it has always come from drunk farangs.

[CarlBkk]

I think fighting and violent behaviour is more common in countries such as the UK, but normally takes place on a fairer basis (i.e 1 on 1) and few times will bystanders allow one guy to get kicked senseless on the floor by 3 or more. Random attacks are also more common.

However, I think Thai men can be incredibly unpredicatable with alcohol...and you don't get much warning. They can be drinking with you, having a laugh, getting more and more friendly, when all of a sudden they will turn. I don't really attract trouble and I usually know when to shut my mouth, even after alcohol, but after several years in Thailand with no problems with farangs or Thais (just about), I encountered one back in UK - with a Thai guy! At a house party of my Thai friend, his cousin was quite a big chap who was well-dressed, spoke perfect English and seemed very polite and intelligent. After a several more whiskies his attitude changed and he thought "I wasn't joining in" enough. It very quickly escalated, which he made sure of, and it was very unexpected. I later found out from his relatives that this young guy ALWAYS got into scrapes after alcohol but was the nicest guy when sober. He was also residing in England due to shooting at a bus driver who cut in front of his car in Thailand, after the pub. His father is an army general.

My lesson: be wary of groups with alcohol - some of these guys lose their senses. Make sure you've got some good friends to back you up if you need it.

[bkkmadness]

I think fighting and violent behaviour is more common in countries such as the UK, but normally takes place on a fairer basis (i.e 1 on 1)

Sorry for laughing dude, but a bit fairer? You'll be telling us they put on boxing gloves next and have a jolly good old fashioned punch up next.

Acid in the face, indiscriminatly 'bottling' someone and attacks of groups on individuals are commonplace in the UK.

I do follow your point, but I don't agree with it at all.

[thaibebop]

I take all this"Thai men are dangerous" stuff with a grain of salt. When was the last time Bangkok had a riot? Anyone in Thailand dragged behind a truck just cause they a different color?

After growing up in America and not in only the nice places I feel that the only way for a country to be more violent then we are is to start a war, and even then, they really gotta try.

After 9/11 Americans were saying how united we are, , what a joke. We fight each other every day. If someone can survive American Violence, they'll do okay else where.

Edited July 25, 2005 by thaibebop

[CarlBkk]

Sorry for laughing dude, but a bit fairer?  You'll be telling us they put on boxing gloves next and have a jolly good old fashioned punch up next.

  Acid in the face, indiscriminatly 'bottling' someone and attacks of groups on individuals are commonplace in the UK.

I do follow your point, but I don't agree with it at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's pretty much common knowledge that here in Thailand if you get into a fight it's likely that the guy's acquaintances will come out of nowhere and do more than split it up.

If you see the techniques of even the British born Chinese in London, you will understand how fair Westerners fight in comparison. Period. Watching on TV the technical students picking on someone, or a Thai concert riot brought back memories of seeing over 50 Chinese pile on someone in a club for doing something very little, many many times. I just don't think your average Brit chav in the club will have that mentality - they have no qualms taking on a group of equal numbers. It is more an Asian/Arab technique where they adopt "maa moo" (pack of dogs) to completely batter and guarantee a win over their foe.

[snoophound]

Oh Yeah

How about those altercations at the soccer stadiums then.

Doesnt look like much like the good old one on one to me.

Alcohol and testosterone

Sorry for laughing dude, but a bit fairer?  You'll be telling us they put on boxing gloves next and have a jolly good old fashioned punch up next.

  Acid in the face, indiscriminatly 'bottling' someone and attacks of groups on individuals are commonplace in the UK.

I do follow your point, but I don't agree with it at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's pretty much common knowledge that here in Thailand if you get into a fight it's likely that the guy's acquaintances will come out of nowhere and do more than split it up.

If you see the techniques of even the British born Chinese in London, you will understand how fair Westerners fight in comparison. Period. Watching on TV the technical students picking on someone, or a Thai concert riot brought back memories of seeing over 50 Chinese pile on someone in a club for doing something very little, many many times. I just don't think your average Brit chav in the club will have that mentality - they have no qualms taking on a group of equal numbers. It is more an Asian/Arab technique where they adopt "maa moo" (pack of dogs) to completely batter and guarantee a win over their foe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[daleyboy]

If you see the techniques of even the British born Chinese in London, you will understand how fair Westerners fight in comparison.  Period.  Watching on TV the technical students picking on someone, or a Thai concert riot brought back memories of seeing over 50 Chinese pile on someone in a club for doing something very little, many many times.  I just don't think your average Brit chav in the club will have that mentality - they have no qualms taking on a group of equal numbers.  It is more an Asian/Arab technique where they adopt "maa moo" (pack of dogs) to completely batter and guarantee a win over their foe.

Sorry carl i am afarid you are wrong. Having worked as a doorman for a considerable amount of time i can tell you now fights are very rarely fair. It will often be 4 or 5 on 1, it will nearly always involve a weapon of some sort, be it a bottle, chair, stanley knife, glass etc etc. I know this is true as i have been on the rough end of 6 pairs of shoes on a few occasions

[thaibebop]

Sorry for laughing dude, but a bit fairer?  You'll be telling us they put on boxing gloves next and have a jolly good old fashioned punch up next.

  Acid in the face, indiscriminatly 'bottling' someone and attacks of groups on individuals are commonplace in the UK.

I do follow your point, but I don't agree with it at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think it's pretty much common knowledge that here in Thailand if you get into a fight it's likely that the guy's acquaintances will come out of nowhere and do more than split it up.

If you see the techniques of even the British born Chinese in London, you will understand how fair Westerners fight in comparison. Period. Watching on TV the technical students picking on someone, or a Thai concert riot brought back memories of seeing over 50 Chinese pile on someone in a club for doing something very little, many many times. I just don't think your average Brit chav in the club will have that mentality - they have no qualms taking on a group of equal numbers. It is more an Asian/Arab technique where they adopt "maa moo" (pack of dogs) to completely batter and guarantee a win over their foe.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you're right. I know for a fact that when the L.A. riot of '92 broke out everyone fought each other in a fair and clean manner, befitting our proud American heritage.

[CarlBkk]

Ok guys, just through my own observations over time I've noticed a general trend of those pre-mentioned techniques - I know not every time, but generally I'd expect a fairer fight in the UK (or at least the chance of it getting split up) than in Asia.

But times may have changed...granted. Daley works as a doorman in Bristol so he's in the frontline - Bristol was my local nightspot and I know how rough a place that is/was (anywhere which had a Ritzy and a Warehouse was trouble!). Still, I never did see a group pouding just one man in all my nights out there.

[daleyboy]

Ok guys, just through my own observations over time I've noticed a general trend of those pre-mentioned techniques - I know not every time, but generally I'd expect a fairer fight in the UK (or at least the chance of it getting split up) than in Asia.

But times may have changed...granted.  Daley works as a doorman in Bristol so he's in the frontline - Bristol was my local nightspot and I know how rough a place that is/was (anywhere which had a Ritzy and a Warehouse was trouble!).  Still, I never did see a group pouding just one man in all my nights out there.

Ritzy and warehouse

Believe me matey i know because i have had a pounding off six guys on xmas eve that left me with a fractured skull, cheekbone and jaw with both my eyes closed over and a crushed upper pallette.

The firm i used to work for had a tv program called Muscle that was on the bbc a few years ago, fly on the wall documentry. One of the local councillors said it was portaying Bristol in a poor light and it wasnt that bad, but if he had actually worked on a door then he would of realised that this is your typical Friday or Saturday night not just in Bristol but all over the country.

As far a Thailand goes i have only ever felt threatened once, and that was by a group of young Thai guys sat outside a house one evening when the wife and i walked past. They started shouting at us as we walked past and i thought we were in big trouble until the wife told me all they wanted to do was talk about Man utd and Arsenal football clubs. We went back sat down had some great food and a good laugh.

[thaibebop]

Please forgive me for going off topic, but I love the Goonies!

Sorry, have not seen that moive in a while.

[bannork]

Have seen too many incedents.Some of the worst at late night concerts in the villages of Isaan.Once the young lads get liqoured up you know why the security people(usually poo yai and his mates)have pump action shotguns.Brawls start up quickly and a free for all starts with twenty + involved in seconds it only takes one with a knife and several are cut.I'm gone,could easily turn on the farang next.In the morning the talk is about who got slashed or once even killed.These concerts are on almost weekly at certain times of the year.All the local villages go with bigger ones having several thousand spectators.Trouble starts when the families drift away after midnight.Lots of kids have weapons hidden away in the darkness and undergrowth ready for trouble.Tempers flare quickly.

On Koh Chang I regret to say I once watched a young thai man beating his girlfriend so bad I thought he would kill her.He had a mate with him who just casually watched.I was restrained by the person I was with,and told I would have the two of them and likely her as well attack me if I helped.

Seen many incedents in Pattaya as well.Never ever get involved.Thai jails and hospitals are there if you do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We used to have a lot of morlam 'sing' concerts in our village but they were cancelled in the end due to too many fights between the youths all fired up on white whisky. The elders did their best, for a while dancing was segregated, women on one side, men on the other, like being back at school really; but a stare too long or a step on the wrong toes would see knives and forks drawn. Often it was a conflict between youths of different villages, a territorial thing.

Alcohol is the trigger, but if you avoid drunk Thais it seems a safe place to me. I've been here 19 years and I'm still waiting for my first punch!

My hometown is Bristol, like some other members, and I remember getting punched on the side of the head at one of the pubs near the BT head office, watching one of the local blues bands,'Harry's...?', I forget the name now,the place was packed and this bloke was trying to edge me out of the way so he could chat up the tight jeaned, long straight,shiny, silky haired beauty next to me. I merely stood my ground, so BIFF!

[robitusson]

I've lived in Bangkok for 7 months and have been on holiday here before that for about 2 months, so I've spent about 9 months in total in the kingdom. During that time I've met 2 women who've stabbed men ie: attempted murder and I've met 3 people who've been stabbed.

At home I've never known anyone who's been stabbed, plenty who've been beaten and attacked, but to me they seem fond of using knives anyway.

[bkkmadness]

I've lived in Bangkok for 7 months and have been on holiday here before that for about 2 months, so I've spent about 9 months in total in the kingdom. During that time I've met 2 women who've stabbed men ie: attempted murder and I've met 3 people who've been stabbed.

At home I've never known anyone who's been stabbed, plenty who've been beaten and attacked, but to me they seem fond of using knives anyway.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Of course the company you keep depends on what threats and violence is against you.

Carlbkk, you gotta try walking through Romford town centre just after 11 pm on a Friday/Sat night, theres no queensbury rules there.

Overall I have always found Thailand safe, and one of the great things about living here is you can walk about any area of the country and feel safe at night, where as many people back in their own hometowns have got to keep their guard up at night.

[Heng]

I think fighting and violent behaviour is more common in countries such as the UK, but normally takes place on a fairer basis (i.e 1 on 1)

Sorry for laughing dude, but a bit fairer? You'll be telling us they put on boxing gloves next and have a jolly good old fashioned punch up next.

Acid in the face, indiscriminatly 'bottling' someone and attacks of groups on individuals are commonplace in the UK.

I do follow your point, but I don't agree with it at all.

Yeah, don't agree either. It's fighting... which is a cousin of war... which as we all know, all is fair. You don't see the Taleban whinging "hey, land your B-52, draw a half-moon sword and fight like a man," do you?

[leftcross]

id go as far to say thai men are less violent than westerners after a drink. it is western culture to get beered up and then take on the world, it isnt the same in asia.

i have seen plenty of incidents in BKK involving drunken westerners where i thought' that bloke deserves a kicking off the thais' but they have been very patient and tolerant with them.

i also saw a thai man get whacked full in the face in the street in nana one night by a yank and nobody did anything.

people drinking to excess anywhere in the world causes problems. i always found the norwegians the best at flipping on the jagmeister when working out there ....... now that was something to see