Viktor Bout's Extradition Depends On Thai Court Ruling Over Charges

[webfact]

BOUT'S EXTRADITION

Extradition depends on court ruling over charges

By The Nation

The court has to rule on Viktor Bout's charges on Monday before an executive decision can be made on whether the Russian arms dealer will be handed over to the US, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said yesterday.

When asked to explain the principles behind his executive decision, the premier said they would be along the lines of bilaterial cooperation and relations as well as the country's interests.

On Monday, the Criminal Court is expected to rule on whether it should dismiss the additional US charges against Bout. If the charges are dismissed, Bout will be extradited to the US within a 90-day time frame, counted from August 20 as ruled by the Court of Appeals. Otherwise he would walk free.

Citing an interview with the Washington Post, during which he said the decision on handing Bout over to the US was entirely in his own hands, Abhisit said: "I based my remarks on the legal principles of the extradition procedure."

He added that both the US and Russia should contribute to the final decision on Bout. "I have discussed this point with the US Secretary of State [Hillary Clinton], but have never had a dialogue with the Russian [foreign minister].

"I have also asked the US to discuss the matter directly with Russia," he said, without giving details of the progress of the US-Russia talks.

Asked about the Foreign Ministry's role in clarifying Thailand's stance and its legal processes to the US and Russia, Abhisit said: "We need to differentiate between their understanding of the matter, and their need to deal with it."

-- The Nation 2010-10-01

[Briggsy]

If the final decision is to be made by the PM, (something we all knew all along), one wonders why it was necessary to keep Mr Bout incarcerated in appalling conditions for 2 and a half years and why it was necessary to have the charade of lengthy legal proceedings.

[asiawatcher]

As mentioned in this article there are other charges which can be brought against Bout here. If they pass him to the US they save time, money and relieve themselves of the issue. They also keep the Thai/US handshake in place. I think they will pas him up.

As to why would they keep him in a Thai jail for 2 1/2 years they care not about his health or his comfort and why should they? And if this were a Human Rights dig - what rights does this guy deserve? He is responsible for countless deaths and misery globally so his 'forced' vacation is a sample of what is in store for him. If he gets incarcerated in the US he will be back on free dental, TV, a bed 3 square meals a day, real chance to exercise and can be some nice man's bitch! What more could an arms dealer want? It is a step up form the Thai system - he should be thankful.

[craigt3365]

I just watched the movie, Lord of War. I know it is not 100% factual, but a part of it is. He was responsible for many, many, many deaths. The opening scenes were probably not far from the truth....

[EnSvenskTiger]

Bout will never get a fair trial in the US. At best his to be judged by a jury who “have seen the movie” ! At worst he will simply disappear into the Gulag at Guantanamo.

High time for the Thais to get their act together and rule their own country.

Tiger

[animatic]

Bout will never get a fair trial in the US. At best his to be judged by a jury who "have seen the movie" ! At worst he will simply disappear into the Gulag at Guantanamo.

High time for the Thais to get their act together and rule their own country.

Tiger

No, all Americans have NOT seen the movie,

Nor have they all an impaired ability to make judgments

based on evidence presented.

Your comments are rude and supercilious to all the people

of an extremely diverse nation of 300 million.

Because when you insult a potential jury you insult

EVERY adult American who might be sitting on it.

Edited October 1, 2010 by Rimmer
Quoted reply from deleted post

[Rimmer]

One post removed from view, discuss nicely please !

[EnSvenskTiger]

On my “planet” every man is innocent until proven guilty, even mr Bout. And that is in front of a legitimate court. Not the lynching mob we sometimes see here on TV.

As for your jury system I just say OJ Simpson! A joke if it wasn't so serious.

And on my “planet” every nation is sovereign within its borders and makes decision in accordance with its laws, no mater who tries to put pressure on them.

There's where I live!

Tiger

[chantorn]

I just watched the movie, Lord of War. I know it is not 100% factual, but a part of it is. He was responsible for many, many, many deaths. The opening scenes were probably not far from the truth....

You mean the actor?

[craigt3365]

I just watched the movie, Lord of War. I know it is not 100% factual, but a part of it is. He was responsible for many, many, many deaths. The opening scenes were probably not far from the truth....

You mean the actor?

No, the movie. Here is a link on for it. Not a bad movie, but I am sure it is nowhere near 100% true. But it is still based on Viktor Bout, somewhat. And why people should lament his bad times is beyond me....do some research into Viktor's background....it might change your mind....he deserves a long stint in Gitmo for sure.

http://movies.yahoo.com/movie/1808681793/info

[tvh13]

I am curious. Where you do come from?

On my "planet" every man is innocent until proven guilty, even mr Bout. And that is in front of a legitimate court. Not the lynching mob we sometimes see here on TV.

As for your jury system I just say OJ Simpson! A joke if it wasn't so serious.

And on my "planet" every nation is sovereign within its borders and makes decision in accordance with its laws, no mater who tries to put pressure on them.

There's where I live!

Tiger

[bkkworker]

It is people that use weapons to kill people that kill people.

If this is not the case, then people who sell guns, weapons, etc... kill millions a year.

If this is not the case, then companies and all involved that manufacture weapons kill millions each year.

If this is not the case, then people involved in the research of weapons, kill millions each year.

If this is not the case, then governments who develop, create, transport, sell or trade any form of weapon or technology associated with weapons kill millions of people a year.

Further, if this is not the case, any citizen of any nation who's government falls into the above statement kills millions of people a year.

Ego, we, including myself, are all guilty of killing millions of people a year.

If people are held responsible for potential acts and the potential acts of others, then it will not be long before you can be legally arrested for even thinking harm to others, even in a fit of rage.

I find it scary that people/governments that have weapons can outlaw others the ability to have weapons or do as they please because they don't want them to have weapons. Yes, killing people should be wrong, but people who kill should be held responsible. We cannot go around and remove the ability from people to kill someone else. It is impossible.

[TAWP]

As mentioned in this article there are other charges which can be brought against Bout here. If they pass him to the US they save time, money and relieve themselves of the issue. They also keep the Thai/US handshake in place. I think they will pas him up.

As to why would they keep him in a Thai jail for 2 1/2 years they care not about his health or his comfort and why should they? And if this were a Human Rights dig - what rights does this guy deserve? He is responsible for countless deaths and misery globally so his 'forced' vacation is a sample of what is in store for him. If he gets incarcerated in the US he will be back on free dental, TV, a bed 3 square meals a day, real chance to exercise and can be some nice man's bitch! What more could an arms dealer want? It is a step up form the Thai system - he should be thankful.

I know you don't care about his health, but that says more about than anything else.

Fact is that he isn't sentenced for any crimes nor charged with killing anyone, even indirectly - ever.

So if yiu think he is guilty I hope you find everyone that owns shares in car companies guilty for each person that is killed using a car too, some times during the course of a crime.

Or why not everyone that owns a share in any company developing weapons or arms...which is most people that has any pension savings.

But oh, I forgot, it is alright when Your side supports the bad guys...

[craigt3365]

That may be going a bit far. For sure governments are responsible for killing millions of people. China, Russia and others have killed millions of their countrymen. Others have supplied the weapons for killing millions.

Tobacco and alcohol manufacturers are responsible for killing millions. Companies who paint lines on highways are responsible for killing people? Where do you stop...kinda ridiculous.

But it is hard to just say OK to individuals doing what he did. Again, do some research on his past actions. I hope that sheds some light on this guy....

Al Capone was a very bad man...never charged with anything other than evading taxes. But he was a bad man. That is a fact.

[bkkworker]

Craig, I agree with you. It is going a bit far. The exaggeration is used to amplify what is being said about this guy.

I don't know if he is good or bad. He might be bad. Either way, the question is, are we bad? I feel we are not.

If we do not treat all fairly, then we are just the same as he, just differently.

"The only difference between a mad man and me is that I am not mad."

As far as Al Capone. I never met him and I don't know what he did other than what others have said he has done.

Edited October 1, 2010 by bkkworker

[rametindallas]

As mentioned in this article there are other charges which can be brought against Bout here. If they pass him to the US they save time, money and relieve themselves of the issue. They also keep the Thai/US handshake in place. I think they will pas him up.

As to why would they keep him in a Thai jail for 2 1/2 years they care not about his health or his comfort and why should they? And if this were a Human Rights dig - what rights does this guy deserve? He is responsible for countless deaths and misery globally so his 'forced' vacation is a sample of what is in store for him. If he gets incarcerated in the US he will be back on free dental, TV, a bed 3 square meals a day, real chance to exercise and can be some nice man's bitch! What more could an arms dealer want? It is a step up form the Thai system - he should be thankful.

I know you don't care about his health, but that says more about than anything else.

Fact is that he isn't sentenced for any crimes nor charged with killing anyone, even indirectly - ever.

So if yiu think he is guilty I hope you find everyone that owns shares in car companies guilty for each person that is killed using a car too, some times during the course of a crime.

Or why not everyone that owns a share in any company developing weapons or arms...which is most people that has any pension savings.

But oh, I forgot, it is alright when Your side supports the bad guys...

I have no idea if Mr. Bout is guilty, as charged, or not but it seems to me you think what he is accused of should not be illegal. Are you saying that all weapons should be traded freely around the world with money being the only throttle? In the U.S., if you sell a gun to a criminal, you are responsible for any crime comitted with that gun.

[TAWP]

I have no idea if Mr. Bout is guilty, as charged, or not but it seems to me you think what he is accused of should not be illegal. Are you saying that all weapons should be traded freely around the world with money being the only throttle?

Yes.

Commodities should be allowed to be traded freely.

In the U.S., if you sell a gun to a criminal, you are responsible for any crime comitted with that gun.

That is false. Only exception is if your act of selling it in itself was a crime.

[chockdee]

the US is the biggest arms dealer in the worldand can invade every country they want.

This is hypocrism.

Thailand should not let themselves be used,for a political arguement.

Free Victor Bout

and no, I am not russian nor eastern european

[IAMSOBAD]

People known the world over as The Merchant of Death should be considered guilty until proven Very Guilty in a court of law.

Just like the Red leaders being held until a trial.

There is no innocence among these people who have zerrrrrrrrrrrrrrro regard for life of others.

Greedy Guilty Bassstards

[IAMSOBAD]

Chokdee you want Victor to live in Holland next door to your family?

Watch what you wish for.

[TAWP]

Chokdee you want Victor to live in Holland next door to your family?

Watch what you wish for.

Why not?

[chockdee]

Chokdee you want Victor to live in Holland next door to your family?

Watch what you wish for.

I'd rather see him instead of you

[whybother]

Victor Bout is (most likely) guilty of selling arms to enemies of the US. That means he is breaking US laws. That means that Thailand, having an extradition treaty (I assume) with the US, needs to go through the extradition process in the Thai courts.

Whether Bout gets extradited to the US depends on the Thai courts rulings according to Thai laws (not whether he broke Thai laws, but whether Thai laws allow him to be extradited).

Even if he did get extradited, there is nothing to say that he wouldn't get off on some technicality in the US.

[Nana]

It is a well known fact that the Yanks have used Victor Bout's services on several occations when they didn't want to dirty their own hands. And now they're going to put him in jail!!!!

He is a bad man. No doubt about it. But when the americans are going to judge him, it's a bloody joke.

[nithisa78]

Being in Thialnd throughout 2009. When he kept his mouth shut [Victor Bout] . He had the benefit of a doubt. When he started shouting, he lost it. From one point of view.

Edited October 1, 2010 by nithisa78

[chantorn]

Isn't Tony Stark the real "merchant of death"?

http://uk.video.yahoo.com/watch/2505060/7635746

Edited October 1, 2010 by chantorn

[craigt3365]

Craig, I agree with you. It is going a bit far. The exaggeration is used to amplify what is being said about this guy.

I don't know if he is good or bad. He might be bad. Either way, the question is, are we bad? I feel we are not.

If we do not treat all fairly, then we are just the same as he, just differently.

"The only difference between a mad man and me is that I am not mad."

As far as Al Capone. I never met him and I don't know what he did other than what others have said he has done.

For sure he will be treated fairly in the US. The US has a pretty decent trial system. He can get the best attorney's money can buy, and perhaps get off just like OJ Simpson did. In the US, you are innocent until proven guilty. Some on this forum should research how this works in the US before spouting off on TV. Will he be incarcerated? Probably as he will be considered a flight risk. Same thing they did here for the red leaders. No difference.

And I do recommend you do some research on him. He sold weapons, illegally and in violation of UN conventions, to many countries. And many innocent people were killed due to his actions. So I would classify him as a bad man.

It is a well known fact that the Yanks have used Victor Bout's services on several occations when they didn't want to dirty their own hands. And now they're going to put him in jail!!!!

He is a bad man. No doubt about it. But when the americans are going to judge him, it's a bloody joke.

For sure you are correct! Crazy, isn't it. But that doesn't change the fact he is responsible for killing many innocent civilians. And it is not just the US who wants him. He is wanted by countries all over the world. Luckily, the US has enough resources, and will power, to go after him. Despite all the criticism received.

[whybother]

Isn't Tony Stark the real "merchant of death"?

http://uk.video.yaho...2505060/7635746

He learnt the error of his ways.

[unblocktheplanet]

The world's biggest arms dealers are govts, often arming both sides of any conflict. The only reason Viktor Bout is in gaol is because govts can't stand competition.

BTW, what, exactly, do the FARC guerrillas have to do with the US? Why was Bout busted here by the DEA?!? Why would Thailand allow this sting on our soil?

Bout may well be a scumbag but law is intended to protect everybody, including the scumbags. Thailand has never been independent of foreign influence so it will be a miracle if Bout walks free. But that's the law as I see it.

The US wants to be the world’s policemen but other countries don’t have to buy it.

[craigt3365]

The world's biggest arms dealers are govts, often arming both sides of any conflict. The only reason Viktor Bout is in gaol is because govts can't stand competition.

BTW, what, exactly, do the FARC guerrillas have to do with the US? Why was Bout busted here by the DEA?!? Why would Thailand allow this sting on our soil?

Bout may well be a scumbag but law is intended to protect everybody, including the scumbags. Thailand has never been independent of foreign influence so it will be a miracle if Bout walks free. But that's the law as I see it.

The US wants to be the world’s policemen but other countries don’t have to buy it.

You are absolutely right regarding governments being the biggest arms deals. For sure. But the reason he was arrested had nothing to do with competition. Do some research and you will find out why he was arrested here. There is also speculation he was supplying arms to the Tamil Tigers...I guess if you were on their side, that would be good! If you were one of the innocent ones killed by his arms, then that would probably be pretty bad.

IMHO, if one life is saved by NOT allowing him to walk free, then it's a good deal. Do you know anything about the FARC? If not, again do some research before replying to posts here. The FARC are responsible for killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people. How you could support somebody who clearly supported them is beyond me.

Actions against Bout seemed to start with the Belgians. So if you want to dis on some country, maybe you should start with them?

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The Belgians requested that Interpol issue a notice for Bout on charges of money laundering, and in 2002 an Interpol red notice on Bout was issued.[32]

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He has broken many laws and is being pursued by many countries. I do hope he gets justice...and his day in court to defend himself. Here is an interesting quote that shows why Russia wants him back so bad:

It is highly unlikely he could have flown aircraft out of Russia and acquired huge amounts of weapons from Soviet arsenals without the direct protection of Russian intelligence, and, given his background, the GRU seems the most likely candidate. He was providing not solely AK-47s and massive amounts of ammunition, as his competitors were, but attack helicopters, anti-aircraft systems, anti-tank mine systems, sniper rifles, and items that are much harder to acquire. The clearest, most recent direct tie came through an obscure investigation in the United States carried out by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. Last year the ATF was investigating sales of $240,000 worth of night vision scopes and paramilitary gear from a small sporting goods store in Pennsylvania, and discovered that the items had been illegally shipped to a company that is controlled by an elite Russian intelligence counterterrorism group. The money was paid through a Bulgarian holding company controlled by Bout.

Glad the US did it's research. You think many other countries would have pursued this? Cambodia maybe?