Testosterone

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

well I personally have had enough of Orang and his sniping discussion style

At this point I would hope the subject has aroused enough interest and curiosity with readers that they would pursue knowledge from various sources and if personally interested then take action to protect or improve this potentially important subject of health.

There is certainly not any imperative to pursue anything in life unless one values that pursuit.

I personally like the Life Extension Foundations framework for male hormone restoration as a starting point.

here is the link.

LEF male hormone restoration

Sorry Orang... No interest in your little drama's and need to quote, snipe and selectively challenge everything I care to share.

If a one armed midget at the gym keeps goading me to spar then it's just not me to play that game... My friends will make fun of me if I beat up a one armed midget. There is nothing in it for me...

And thanks... this frees up more of my time to study new ideas.

[orang37]

... snip ... I have no idea what your "debating" about now. ... snip ...

At this point we are not "debating" with you: you have already made it clear you are not capable of intellectual debate without being mentally disturbed by memories of prior girl friends, or using ad hominem attacks, and put-downs, and being generally irritated.

Now, we are trying to provide a somewhat "sane" alternative on this thread to the monomaniacally exaggerated focus on testosterone presented here with a glut of dis-organized medical and pseudo-medical facts, theories, etc. We're trying to present a palliative for the mutant growth of a "dis-organized religion"

And, we hope, to remind some of our aging male readers that biological change with aging, while it may naturally reduce testosterone, does not necessarily mean, in their case, the result will be either a pathological condition, or a diminution of vitality, or even virility.

We're trying to remind readers here that the healing force of nature, what the Romans called medicae vix naturae, is what keeps us healthy, and that in the Roman ideal of mens sana in corpore sano (undoubtedly borrowed from the Greeks), a "healthy mind in a healthy body:" bring notice that the word, in that phrase that comes first is "mind."

On the flood of hormonal-substance-religion unleashed on this thread, we are trying to float a small boat of moderation and reason.

Also, it interests us, intellectually, to discover what the meaning of "male" is among expats here related to our theory that Thailand attracts a certain type of mid-life road-kill male with "alpha" characteristics who would be most likely to engage in chemical self-modification related to sexual potency or strength.

Consider this from Marcus Aurelius:

"Because your own strength is unequal to the task, do not assume that it is beyond the powers of man; but if anything is within the powers and province of man, believe that it is within your own compass also."

And compare with this from Dante: Purgatorio, Canto XVI, lines 79-83 :

"To a greater force, and to a better nature, you, free, are subject, and that creates the mind in you, which the heavens have not in their charge. Therefore if the present world go astray, the cause is in you, in you it is to be sought."

And then compare the two views above with Einstein (1950):

"A human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe", a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest — a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

What, to you, as a male, do these three quotes say ? Anything.

best, ~o:37;

p.s. Perhaps it goes without saying that we like to write here because we like to write.

Edited December 20, 2010 by orang37

[orang37]

... snip ... If a one armed midget at the gym keeps goading me to spar then it's just not me to play that game... My friends will make fun of me if I beat up a one armed midget. There is nothing in it for me...

Oh Please, Khun CobraSnakeNeckTie,

Don't hold back, tell us how you really feel.

best, ~o:37;

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

it's been a good subject for me to focus on and in the process I have learned a lot more about the biochemistry issues and local sources of diet, herbs, supplements, and pro hormones that could be used in the successful management of male hormones.

The role of collecting blood chemistry data cannot be understated. Establishing a baseline and monitoring over time is crucial.

Without social networking I might not have really keyed in on it right now. Ken the Chiropractor in CM mentioned them to me and when the thread came up it really clicked. Nothing to complain about with new interest and knowledge.

I suspect this health field will blossom in the coming years and many people will benefit from it's fruits.

Live long and prosper :-)

and PS... I apologize for getting bogged down in any negativity and turning off readers to an interesting subject.

Edited December 20, 2010 by CobraSnakeNecktie

[Cobrabiker]

I am also interested in TRT, does anyone know what are the available testosterone injections in Thailand?

[heybruce]

Still no suggestion where at least one can have a test done in CM? Interpretation or subsequent treatment may be another issue for another place. Just to get started, where?? RAM??

I went to Ram 1 for my first physical exam in Thailand in November, and they tested me for testosterone even though I did not request the test. I don't know if this is a standard part of the exam, or if they do as many tests as they can charge for.

[el jefe]

Still no suggestion where at least one can have a test done in CM? Interpretation or subsequent treatment may be another issue for another place. Just to get started, where?? RAM??

I went to Ram 1 for my first physical exam in Thailand in November, and they tested me for testosterone even though I did not request the test. I don't know if this is a standard part of the exam, or if they do as many tests as they can charge for.

If you didn't ask for it and you paid for it, I think you answered your own question. I have my physical done at Sripat and testosterone testing is not part of any of their standard packages. I've asked for specific extra tests to be done, but I've never had to pay for anything I didn't ask for.

[orang37]

Still no suggestion where at least one can have a test done in CM? Interpretation or subsequent treatment may be another issue for another place. Just to get started, where?? RAM??

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun ThaiPhuket,

You can be tested for testosterone at Dr. Tawatchai's clinic on Loy Kroh (the lab work will sent out for that, we believe). It's a widely available test. Don't know if the good Dr. T. offers, or can order, the other tests mentioned on this thread.

Loi Kroh Clinic

Dr. Tawatchai

622 Loi Khoh Road

053-271-571

m-fri 8am-1pm, 4:30-8:30pm

sat 8am-1pm

sun 4:30-8:30pm

best, ~o:37;

[jimmym40]

I posted info a couple months ago on lab work in CM.

MTLab

It's located behind Carefour, right next to the new Jigsaw Condo. It's a brand new building. Been using that lab (old location) for several years. There is one fellow there that speaks English and very helpful. You can go in and request just about any test. All the tests I've had done, they bring you back into a room and give an explanation of the results.

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup CobraSnakeNeckTie,

After a selves-imposed "holiday" from this thread, and re-reading it start-to-finish, we'd like to apologize to you, specifically, for what we think is our writing in response to your posts that several times crossed over the line between "debate" and the type of point-by-point reaction/rebuttal/argument that does convey a spirit of animosity, or is at least annoying, and is not in the spirit of a true 'dialogue.' Yes, we confess, we "sniped."

We said clearly, several times, what we think about chemical self-modification, and what we think were/are some hidden agendas on this thread (related to male sexual performance): there was no need to elaborate at length, particularly in your case where you clearly advocate careful use of these substances under medical supervision, and in responsible ways, and your focus is clearly on health and improved strength, stamina, athletic effectiveness, etc.

Your posts are clear, intelligent, and thoughtful, and we are, in fact, "wide open" to, in the context of (as we noted so frequently on this thread) the recent historical radical jump in life-expectancy of being pro-active in doing what you can to reduce such age-related problems as osteoporosis, muscle loss, etc.

But, the broader goal, for us, with a human meat-package with 67 years on it, is always increased mental and emotional development (and, very specifically for us, developing as far as we can our ability as an artist in words to render our creativity), or maintenance of our still strong powers of concentration and memory ... of which physical fitness is always an important pre-condition, as well as "goal in itself."

But, for us, even these goals, are secondary to something much harder to define, if not impossible to put into words without sounding pseudo-spiritual (in an age in which we are saturated with psuedo-spiritual rhetoric to the point where banality sits on the throne of meaning): on a simple level: we'd just say: "being at home with who and what you are, and where you came from, at peace, and in a state of loving kindness, with your own small and large mistakes in living, and your brief moments of self-transcendence, and accepting that entropy, loss, aging, finally physical death, are ultimately as natural as birth, childhood, and maturation."

One grain of sand on an infinite beach has a twinkle of a moment where it imagines it is a universe, and, for a time, acts as if it is the universe, but later (too late ?) realizes how special (and paradoxical ?) it is that it is one of infinite grains of sand

For us, if there is a "Fountain of Youth," it is in "the moment:" and we perceive ourselves as the "active agent who "hides" from "the moment" which is always here, not there. For us the issue of whether we play hide-and-seek with "the moment" consciously or unconsciously, out of fear, or out of habit ... is of great interest.

For us, right now, it seems the "windows that open on to that moment" are serendipitously (pehaps, to use Jung's phrase, 'synchronicityously ?') unveiled, but often are the eyes of children, and babies, or the spontaneous sweetness we encounter frequently in our encounter with neighborhood Thais, and at the San Pak Hoi market. Or the sight of doves in the garden in the morning, enjoying that riot of overgrown everything that once was a lawn.

We wish we could afford go to a first-class American or European sports-medicine clinic and spend whatever to have a full metabolic, and hormonal review, and we'd have no hesitation about use of chemical substances that might give us ten more years of full mental powers at the cost, perhaps, of dying ten years earlier. But, for use, as humanly single, with no children, and an eldest child, with three siblings all with stable lives, that's an easy choice: if we had children, grand-children, dependents ... maybe many other dimensions to consider there ?

And we do wish we knew a coach/mentor in Chaing Mai who had not only educational certifications in sports fitness, but specific expertise in issues with exercise and diet for the aging human body, and who understood the importance, for the older person, in avoiding injury to the connective tissues (sinew, ligament, tendon, fascial sheath, etc.) that take much longer to heal with age. Any injury to our fingers, or wrist, for example, would be a major disaster: we've touch-typed since age eleven; we can hardly read our own printing, let alone cursive script; we play guitar amaturely but with immense enjoyment: any injury to our eyes, like a detached retina, etc., would be devastating since we read so much.

best, ~o:37;

p.s. to anyone we didn't at least mildly offend on this thread: we apologize, and will try harder next time

Edited January 7, 2011 by orang37

[orang37]

Saswasdee Khrup, Fellow TV CM Hormonally Regulated Human Meat Packages,

Fresh-breaking news: human female tears can lower male testosterone levels !

Story reported on NPR : Tears soften more than the heart ?

"Female tears had physiological effects on men who smelled them: It lowered their sexual arousal and decreased testosterone levels, according to a new study. Though study participants didn't notice a particular smell, researchers say there must be a chemical in the tears causing the effects."

Now this leaves us eager to know the effect of male tears on female humans' hormones, and other combinations of gender or cross-gender pairings.

If, reading the above, your first thought was: "what male tears ?:" then maybe you grew up in the deep-south macho culture our human form did in the US in the 1950's, but we hope not.

By the way: many years ago (twenty ?) we read a great true biographical book by a highly literate young man who became obsessed with body-building, and was really into steroids and such, and later came off it: his analysis of his "obsession," and what he went through as he went through terminating the drugs, and the addiction to monster work-outs for hours a day, and the comic episodes where he had amusingly awkward sex with equally intense female body-builders, were fascinating. Anyone remember the name of that book, or who it was by ?

best, ~o:37;

[plahgat]

Was recommended this lab in Pattaya by a pharmacist, he said they'll test your testosterone levels cheaper and faster than any of the bigger hospitals.

I never went there though, but might be considering going next trip for a testosterone check up.

Anyone tried it?

It's in Nah-kleua north of Pattaya.

Plahgat

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

A lot of the more sophisticated tests performed in Chiang Mai are sent and processed at a larger lab in BKK.

This includes the hospitals and MTlab.

Here is a short menu of tests available thru MTlab with prices. If they do it in house then marked "Inlab" otherwise its processed at the big lab.

Most people would get Total Testosterone, Estradiol for starters. Depending on those results then it makes sense to dig deeper and find out why. For example a low total testosterone could be caused by low DHEA or Pregnenalone. A high Estradiol could indicate high SHBG,DHT and low free testosterone. Can be a lot more complicated with Pituitary and Thyroid issues and those tests can be pursued if necessary.

A little too involved to spell out many scenario's. Lots of information out there on managing the steroidal hormones. By knowing the underlying values then much easier and cost effective to make dietary, lifestyle, supplement and/or drug choices.

Steroidal hormones are cleaved from cholesterol and include:

Testosterone, Estrogen, Cortisol(s), DHEA, DHT, Prenenalone, Progesterone, Aldosterone.

MTLab tests Price(Baht)

Aldosterone clotted blood 2400

Cortisol serum 350 (inlab)

DHEA Sulphate serum 600

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) serum 3000

Estradiol serum 400 (inlab)

Free Testosterone serum 4000

Growth hormone serum 500

IGF -1 insulin growth factor serum 900

IGF BP 3 serum 800

LH luteinizing hormone serum 350 (inlab)

Progesterone serum 400 (inlab)

SHBG sex hormone binding globulin serum 1500

Testosterone serum 400 (inlab)

I have the entire blood testing catalog from MTLab so if someone has a question can look it up if you ask.

In all this a well performing Liver and Gallbladder are so key to good hormone performance. The Liver can metabolize excess estrogen as a person ages as long its not clogged up, impaired or excessively busy dealing with something else like alcohol removal etc.

The Liver/Gallbladder flush protocol is cheap and effective. Most people over the age of 35 have gallbladders full of stones and gravel. The liver flows bile and its many hormones and enzymes to the body but if the gallbladder is full of marbles then the liver backs up and is really impaired.

For most people I would flush the liver/gallbladder first. If a person has never done it and say they are age 50 then many stones up to golf ball size will be removed. Often takes 6 to 10 flushes to get rid of stones and really allow the liver to work as in youth.

enjoy

basic liver/GB flush directions

Photos of liver gallstones

[thaitar]

Check out the book called 4 Hour Body. Just came out, by the same author that wrote 4 Hour Workweek. His protocol for natural T boost is such:

Long Term:

• Fermented cod liver oil + vitamin-rich butter fat—2 capsules upon waking and before bed
• Vitamin D3—3,000–5,000 IU upon waking and before bed (6,000–10,000 IU per day), until you reach blood levels of 55 ng/mL.
• Short ice baths and/or cold showers—10 minutes each, upon waking and right before bed
• Brazil nuts—3 nuts upon waking, 3 nuts before bed (see important footnote).

Short Term:

20–24 Hours Prior to Sex

• Eat at least 800 milligrams of cholesterol (example: four or more large whole eggs or egg yolks)

Four Hours Prior to Sex

• 4 Brazil nuts
• 20 raw almonds
• 2 capsules of the above-mentioned fermented cod/butter combination

Edited January 9, 2011 by thaitar

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Check out the book called 4 Hour Body. Just came out, by the same author that wrote 4 Hour Workweek. His protocol for natural T boost is such:

Long Term:

• Fermented cod liver oil + vitamin-rich butter fat—2 capsules upon waking and before bed
• Vitamin D3—3,000–5,000 IU upon waking and before bed (6,000–10,000 IU per day), until you reach blood levels of 55 ng/mL.
• Short ice baths and/or cold showers—10 minutes each, upon waking and right before bed
• Brazil nuts—3 nuts upon waking, 3 nuts before bed (see important footnote).

Short Term:

20–24 Hours Prior to Sex

• Eat at least 800 milligrams of cholesterol (example: four or more large whole eggs or egg yolks)

Four Hours Prior to Sex

• 4 Brazil nuts
• 20 raw almonds
• 2 capsules of the above-mentioned fermented cod/butter combination

Hey that's the recipe for "Wolverine Sex"

Supposed to be an entertaining book. Seems to draw on some principles of Ayurvedic medicine

4 hour body book review

[thaitar]

Hey that's the recipe for "Wolverine Sex"

Supposed to be an entertaining book. Seems to draw on some principles of Ayurvedic medicine

4 hour body book review

Very good book imo. Quite entertaining with lots of good info. The thing I like about this guy is that he doesn't just talk or rehash the info from other sources like it was said in some reviews. He actually tests all these theories on himself and finds what works. He has the money to run these frequent lab tests and buy all the gadgets and gizmos to do some tests in home conditions. Of course, the only thing I can say is that what works for one person not necessarily will work for others. However most of what he writes I can relate to from person experience and/or reading the same thing in several other trusted (by me) sources.

Another great way to produce more T is to work out. Especially heavy duty exercises like squats and bench presses. Disregard the machines if you can and work with free weights only. Needless to say consult a physician before you do this and maybe start light if you haven't done anything like this in a long time. But from what I hear, age is no excuse from serious, free weight exercise, unless you have some major injuries to worry about.

[thaitar]

P.S. Just read the review from the NY Times, and honestly, these douche journalists just have no idea what they are talking about and judging what Ferris wrote probably by what they know from popular science. If you want live healthy in a modern world, prepare to put some work for it

[orang37]

Sawasdee Khrup Khun Thaitar, and Khun CobraSnakeNeckTie,

Will address you both with this question since you both cite sources of similar "exoticness," for "health enhancing," or "corrective," procedures which involve a constellation of foods and vitamins, and consumption of chemicals, like epsom salts, that appear to resemble directions for witches' potions from medieval grimoires.

Have either of you actually tried any of these practices ?

If so, what was your experience ? What were the side effects. What were the short-term and long-term effects you experienced ?

If you have actually done "liver flushes" as descibed here, how many times have you done them: have you done them in a series, as recommended by the well known quack and fraud who authored them, fugitive from arrest warrant for medical fraud in Illinois, operator of one of the notorious "cancer clinics" just over the border in Mexico (in Tijuana: Mexico's Pattaya ?): have you had any personal negative reactions such as described in the possible side-effects by the author of the "liver flush" ritual ?

Please do share some of what you have actually done on/to/with yourselves.

thanks, ~o:37;

[orang37]

... snip ... But from what I hear, age is no excuse from serious, free weight exercise, unless you have some major injuries to worry about.

Sawasdee Khrup, Khun Taitar,

Prey tell, where do you hear this ? Who said it ? Did you read it ? If so, where ? Can you cite a scientific study saying free weight exercise poses no risk to connective tissue if you are aged ? We infer from your use of the words, "no excuse," you believe there is something about free weights, compared to say "cam driven" machines that ensure consistent resistance through a whole range of motion of the muscles, and also allow more specific isolation of certain muscle groups ... as well as eliminating the risk of injury due to loss of balance, falls, accidental dropping of weights ... or the risks involved in the "ballastic blast off" often required by free weights ... that is more beneficial.

If you believe this, what is the basis of this belief: do you have any formal education on the nature of human aging, and the changes in the ease of injury to connective tissue, and the longer recovery time required, with aging, to repair connective tissue ? In other words: what are the sources of your advocating free weights independent of age ... if we interpret your words correctly ?

You mention squats speficically, and we would like to be clear we believe that the full squat is ioho a very dangerous exercise with free weights, even for well-conditioned weight-lifters wearing strong lower back weight-lifting support belts: it compresses the lower back verterbrae intensely, as well as putting immense pressure on parts of the knees.

thanks, ~o:37;

Edited January 10, 2011 by orang37

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I just finished reading the 4 hour body by TIm Ferriss as per Thaitar's recommendation. Really interesting book that details his many self experiments and his over 10,000 blood and body composition tests. He offers some real gems in terms of tricks to create favorable conditions in the body as well as methodologies for tracking and achieving progress.

Very interesting read and looking forward to testing some of his techniques. Aside from the testing the techniques are not expensive at all.

I highly recommend the book. It's something I would have liked to have done if I had more resources.

Orang

The Liver flush is very old technique and predates Hulda Clarks influence. She has made some perhaps outrageous claims about being able to cure "ALL" cancers that have since discredited some of her over reaching boasts. Hulda Clark did popularize the technique and offered some very good refinements.

The flush itself is very beneficial and well documented and can be researched with google etc. It has been recommended to me by numerous Naturopaths and Chiropractors and I have myself have done about a dozen times over a ten year period.

Do one flush properly and the expelled stones and improvement in health are pretty dramatic. Unfortunately a backed up liver and gallbladder will have many stones and sediments after the initial flushes the new sludge will migrate as stones and sediment refill the gallbladder with many symtoms returning. For me it took about 6 to stop seeing stones. I thought I had a really good diet and health when I did my first one but was shocked what came out.

There is no way a perfect diet will dissolve and pass liver and gallstones. They are very hard festering bacterial rocks that really impede the bodies most important organ.

The drug industry has tried to develop drugs to dissolve them but little success that I am aware of. Some people have the stones removed in a Laparoscopic cholecystectomy operation. Unfortunately they can only remove the Gallstones and the liver wil deposit many more after the procedure.

Many people do nothing and eventually may require a gallbladder removal which is very unfortunate because the Gall Bladder is very helpful organ.

There are some people who just don't get gallstones and sludge but I think they are fairly rare breed.

The telltale symptoms of gallbladder congestion due to stones and sediment are:

Upper back tightness mostly between the shoulder blades.

Sluggish lipid and heavy meal digestion.

Heartburn and some related symtoms like acid reflux.

Fluctuating pressure sensations in the rib cage.

Sensitivity along the Gall Bladder meridian and especially GB balancing points which are well known Acupuncture locations.

[AZBill]

Serious downsides to loading up on this stuff. Studies have shown it seriously impedes good judgment, promotes permiscuity and may actually make you less attractive to women (scientific studies show women actually prefer males with more feminized faces who are able to provide something more than sperm). Scientists have shown that while the drive to make it to the top is higher in high T guys, lower T men actually make it to the top more often than high T guys because lower T guys are better thinkers and have better judgment . Most high T guys end up in blue collar jobs which obviously do not equate to any kind of status. If you're only wanting to take them to increase your libido or are having erection problems, then just try Cialis or Viagra instead.

[jayinoz]

Trying to increase your Testestore or HGH naturally is a hard ask... Sure 40 to 50 something yo very althletic guys\girls will have a bit more than their peers. But not a lot.

Age degenrates these hormones quite quickly. In saying that there are a number of experts in CMai and BKK. In terms of testing it cheaper in Sripat if you prepared to wait.

I advocate replacement therapy if it is done correctly and monitored... no dodgy supplement selling as some adverts on here. SImply the real deal and be montiored by an expert. In saying that there is not many around. There are several places. Sripat is good for testing afordability yet no good doctors as experts.

In general I do not think most need testing- if you over 25yo then your HGH and testorone is depleting at a fast rate- this is a fact. No one needs to tell you that you not the same person you were when you were 20yo. Even at 40yo HGH has depleted far more than half of when you were 20yo. 50 yo only a fifth on when you 20. Being one of the main features in aging. Natural supplements are a waste of $$$ and time IMO...simply go for the replacement with an expert monitoring. You will feel the difference within a couple of weeks. Add strength exercise and more protein to your diet for extra benefits.

Perfect conbo for the lazy like me LOL- (Plus affordable in Thailand- not in our homeland).... Testo weekly + HGH daily + workout with personal trainer (3x weekly) + higher protein diet will do wonders for most. Yet you do need Carbs for energy in any workouts... overall it is what you are after... bulk up and longevity\energy like benefits, slim down with the other benefits. Custom programs are best for most...plus monitoring... a few good ones in Cmai... not many.

Far cheaper than the below pricing... talk to the quake at SRIPAT and they can often bundle in a huge amount of test for a reasonable price. The below are very high... whilist I do not think you need all a few are more essential. FORGET the growth hormone test as when you naturally or artifially get these hormones they do their job in the body within 30min. So this test is good for nothing.

Steroidal hormones are cleaved from cholesterol and include:

Testosterone, Estrogen, Cortisol(s), DHEA, DHT, Prenenalone, Progesterone, Aldosterone.

MTLab tests Price(Baht)

Aldosterone clotted blood 2400

Cortisol serum 350 (inlab)

DHEA Sulphate serum 600

Dihydrotestosterone (DHT) serum 3000

Estradiol serum 400 (inlab)

Free Testosterone serum 4000

Growth hormone serum 500

IGF -1 insulin growth factor serum 900

IGF BP 3 serum 800

LH luteinizing hormone serum 350 (inlab)

Progesterone serum 400 (inlab)

SHBG sex hormone binding globulin serum 1500

Testosterone serum 400 (inlab)

In saying the testing- why bother it seems to be an excuse for people to delay a lifestyle change plus they only compare to peers so who cares. Will all know we not the same as when 20yo. It up to the individual if they wish to age naturally or not. It appears to HARD for most to seek advice, as we all do not wish for misinformation. Goto experts and you will feel the benefits.

I have been dissappointed in some of those regular posters here... let people do what they wish their lives... enhance the quality of your life. In a safe and caring environment is always best... forget the natural supplements- simply touted by those trying to make a buck. Get only Sustanon (Testosterone) and Jintropin (HGH) IMO. Look on sports sites and bodybuilding.com for more info... only difference for taking for bodybuilding, sports enhancement is the amount you take- meaning a lot less $$$ than those who wish for huge bulk, Only 3-5iu per day needed- whilst hormones get a bad name from those Mr Universes down in Pattaya taking 10-20iu daily + cocktail of other drugs. Big difference between them and us. Yet I have no issue with many body builders I know- one thing for sure is they know all about the science of the body yet a few simply overdo it for an advantage. Thus the bad name in hormone replacement. Sensible diet and hormone replacement and exercise can be a life changer. My old man in his 60s looked and felt nearly 20 years younger- put a price on that... those in 20 and 30s typically use for body building and towards 40 Up trying to turn back time with great success.

IF DONE correctly- seek advice... not just forums.

Cheers JAY

[jayinoz]

Also I will add DO NOT BE Ripped off by fake HGH... even jintropin can be fake. It is said that 90% of HGH out there is fake. Body builders especially know instantly if the real gear or not. You need an expert with a good rep who only charges 10% more or so than purchased direct in China. Some guys fly into china to grab many boxes of the real deal... typically charge a third of the price of Pharmacies and drug stores that store it in Cmai. I will not mention them as you need a script. You can get a script at SRIPAT yet not needed in Thailand for personal usage. If travelling you definately need a script for HGH and Testo.

If you unsure then have tested in a Lab, yet that does cost 20k bt yet worth it or go in with a few mates to have a batch tested if the source not confirmed as having good rep. Typically hormone replacement will set u back 9000bt pm for sustanon and Jintropin combo. If you paying much more, as I know some pay 20K + pm then you are getting ripped off. Plus competition bringing the price down every 3-6 months. Yet it has been around 9-10K pm for a couple of years.

Next cheapest is a drug store at thapea gate for 14000bt.... hospitals will be over 20000bt + pm.... all can be ripped off with fakes. Price not a real indication of whether true blue or not. IMO. Trusted source direct from manufacturer for sure then OK...plus you will feel the benefits after 1-2 weeks.

Under 9000bt then no way as that approx. Original manfacturers current pricing per box in bulk. As they charge approx 8.5k if orderred in lots of 100 boxes. Transporters need to cover costs so 9000bt is a hard ask yet possible if in the know for the combo.

Would love to exchange suppliers with others... as I hear some orderring in 1000 bulk for cheaper... Jintropin is the original and best IMO.

For some costly- yet works.

Cheers JAY

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Good posts Jay. Yes this therapy is to keep levels from dropping with advancing age. This isn't for 20 year olds.

What does the Sustanon alone cost in Thailand?

is it Sustanon 250 or 100?

Sustanon Wiki

How do you think the Testoviron compares ? (testosterone ethanate with a small amount of propionate)

Would be curious the prices of Sustanon versus Testoviron.

In the US a lot of people use the testosterone creams which is a lot more convenient to administer than an injection.

Who knows how long until the creams make it here. Probably a big issue with counterfeit in this market.

[tmifune]

Also I will add DO NOT BE Ripped off by fake HGH... even jintropin can be fake. It is said that 90% of HGH out there is fake. Body builders especially know instantly if the real gear or not. You need an expert with a good rep who only charges 10% more or so than purchased direct in China. Some guys fly into china to grab many boxes of the real deal... typically charge a third of the price of Pharmacies and drug stores that store it in Cmai. I will not mention them as you need a script. You can get a script at SRIPAT yet not needed in Thailand for personal usage. If travelling you definately need a script for HGH and Testo.

If you unsure then have tested in a Lab, yet that does cost 20k bt yet worth it or go in with a few mates to have a batch tested if the source not confirmed as having good rep. Typically hormone replacement will set u back 9000bt pm for sustanon and Jintropin combo. If you paying much more, as I know some pay 20K + pm then you are getting ripped off. Plus competition bringing the price down every 3-6 months. Yet it has been around 9-10K pm for a couple of years.

Next cheapest is a drug store at thapea gate for 14000bt.... hospitals will be over 20000bt + pm.... all can be ripped off with fakes. Price not a real indication of whether true blue or not. IMO. Trusted source direct from manufacturer for sure then OK...plus you will feel the benefits after 1-2 weeks.

Under 9000bt then no way as that approx. Original manfacturers current pricing per box in bulk. As they charge approx 8.5k if orderred in lots of 100 boxes. Transporters need to cover costs so 9000bt is a hard ask yet possible if in the know for the combo.

Would love to exchange suppliers with others... as I hear some orderring in 1000 bulk for cheaper... Jintropin is the original and best IMO.

For some costly- yet works.

Cheers JAY

Thanks for the post Jayinoz. I have used this hormone replacement combo in the past and would like to get started again. I sent you a pm.

[Mapguy]

I believe I asked a long time ago what this thread has possibly to do with Chiang Mai. Clearly it doesn't. Has to do with personal "geography."

With sympathy for males growing old and worried about losing their prowess I sympathize, but I am glad, at least to see the Myanmar "Earthquake" quickly overtake this thread in responses and view (209 Replies and 8,679 Views on the other thread, and it only took a couple of days !!!!)

Too bad in wasn't an earthquake in the loins!

Edited March 27, 2011 by Mapguy

[tmifune]

I believe I asked a long time ago what this thread has possibly to do with Chiang Mai. Clearly it doesn't. Has to do with personal "geography."

With sympathy for males growing old and worried about losing their prowess I sympathize, but I am glad, at least to see the Myanmar "Earthquake" quickly overtake this thread in responses and view (209 Replies and 8,679 Views on the other thread, and it only took a couple of days !!!!)

Too bad in wasn't an earthquake in the loins!

Well pardon me all over the place Mapguy. But what the hell does your reply have anything to do with this thread?

"I believe I asked a long time ago what this thread has possibly to do with Chiang Mai. Clearly it doesn't. Has to do with personal "geography."

That qualifies about 75% of the threads in this forum.

"With sympathy for males growing old and worried about losing their prowess I sympathize, but I am glad, at least to see the Myanmar "Earthquake" quickly overtake this thread in responses and view (209 Replies and 8,679 Views on the other thread, and it only took a couple of days !!!!)"

Reads to me like you have a personal problem Mapguy. I think there is a lot of people on this thread ( men and woman ) who care about what happened in Burma.

Hmmmm....nobody's paying attention to me...lets see...I think I'll just barge in this groups conversation and talk about what I want to talk about.

Edited March 27, 2011 by tmifune

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

I believe I asked a long time ago what this thread has possibly to do with Chiang Mai. Clearly it doesn't. Has to do with personal "geography."

With sympathy for males growing old and worried about losing their prowess I sympathize, but I am glad, at least to see the Myanmar "Earthquake" quickly overtake this thread in responses and view (209 Replies and 8,679 Views on the other thread, and it only took a couple of days !!!!)

Too bad in wasn't an earthquake in the loins!

We were talking specifically about hormone therapy in Thailand and that is geography specific. What products, doctors, tests and their merits that are available in Thailand.

If your not interested in the topic then read one of the millions of other topics on the internet. Why do you even care what topic is "winning" for longest or whatever.

Charlie Sheen disorder?

.

[Rimmer]

unnecessarily and inflammatory post removed from view

[andvari26]

Wow so much information supplied, I have used inject-able testosterone for 5 to 6 years, the difference in mental focus and general energy is astounding. The best place I found in Chiang Mai is a Pharmacy at 56 Loy Krow Rd - 053 208 856, the lady there ( Somporn Chansuksett) speaks v good English. There are various compounds available, the difference is the rate at which the product metabolises, if you want an even dosage release for general improvement as opposed to Mr Universe motivations, ask for Test Comp. It has a mix of four different bases with different speed of release, 1 injection will last about a month max. Also available as mentioned in an earlier post at the two Pharmacies near Tha Phae gate - inside the moat.

Cheers