Dane Dies After Brawling in Pattaya

[Thaddeus]

Well Thailand is number 1 for tourist deaths for Aussies as well as Brits.

'In the year to June 30 2009, a total of 105 Australians died in Thailand, according to the DFAT figures. This compares with 50 in the US and 58 in Indonesia, both countries with larger numbers of Aussie visitors'

Taken from Phuket Wan.

This has come up before, and the general consensus was that there are many more retirees in Thailand therefore death figures (which include old age) are higher than other mainly tourist destinations.

ie, smaller amounts of visitors , but many more long term visitors.

Sorry OC, but my supposition before came after reading the FCO website, Brits top the charts when it comes to number of Brits needing consular assistance, being arrested and turning up dead, and it points out that it is with regards to tourists to Thailand.

I know that Brits figure quite heavily in the number of newspaper reports, but that is mainly because there are more of us than any other nationality visiting Thailand.

[hash9]

Before making rash claims about the "dangers" of Pattaya, take an estimate of the average population, location and economy etc and then compare the crime figures with other similar towns - your theory will look sadly distorted.

Where would you find "a similar town"?

Filled with local hookers, pimps and bandits - blended with foreign drunks and other low life.

[cup-O-coffee]

Must be a media blackout on this. Nothing on GOOGLE. This gets a lot more strange the more one reads the Scandasia report.

(A) He got in a loud and violent brawl (witnessed by reliable resources - added by cup-O-coffee)

The police came

[C] They all made up

------- You mean the police let it go at that? The policemen should be tried for contributing to a volatile situation, instead of hauling someone away to let them cool off overnight and then releasing them when they are sober. At least give someone a ride home and tell them to stay there or else, and inform the front desk.

(D) He left, and carried on at other bars (no witnesses, no fights, no one to tell what he said that made him return? Drunk people tell all when they are mad and intend to do something; this to bolster their courage)

(E) Later on in the evening (how much later?) he returned, and according to reliable resources (again?) he (dot dot dot) knocked one of the Englishmen down from behind. What is the dot dot dot to imply? You mean no one saw it coming? Hah!

(F) The Englishman still standing (still?) then knocked Lars down from behind

(G) Lars hit his head to the floor

--------and the guy Lars knocked down didn't?

--------And the reliable witnesses made sure to note that Lars did indeed hit his head to the floor

(H) Lars got up and left, but (according to Scandasia.com) did not call it a night

------- So scandasia was following this guy and/or has sources to verify that he didn't call it a night?

(I) Later he went to his room, where he, according to reliable sources, was beaten up and robbed by three Thais.

------- Scandasia is still tagging along?

------- What reliable sources?

------- Who are these people?

------- Why are they reliable, but their story can not be confirmed, while the reliable witnesses who saw Lars' head hit the floor justifies a murder charge?

------- And the reliable witnesses who mysteriously inform that Lars did not call it a night, but no one knows where he went to get more booze.

------- If the prior mentioned reliable sources can get a man put in jail because they saw his head hit a floor, then why are the reliable sources, who tell about the Thai mugging, not given the same credibility

------- If hitting your head on the floor can be construed as murder, then Lars should be charged (post-mortem) with attempted murder when the Englishman hit his head on the floor, when Lars knocked him down? Or was it only an elbow? Is that only aggravated assault?

------- He returned to his room? Wasn't his wife and kid there? Are they staying in separate residences? That is mighty suspicious that he has a big family and returns to a room, instead of a house where his family is.

------- What is it with the "Later" references? How about a time? 4am? 2am?

And you mean to tell me that no one has come forward to tell what Lars may have mumbled out loud about this event at the other places he stumbled into?

I would really like to know why returned to his room, and no mention of wife or child being there.

There is not even enough information to try the British men on involuntary manslaughter. An attorney will have a field day with this, especially if the skull fracture is not consistent with a floor surface in the bar, or the object used by the British man to hit Lars (fist, bottle, whatever). But even then, and due to Lars' dubious behavior, unless his journey can be tracked in its entirety, who is to say that he did not fall down of his own accord, on a flat surface. I've seen drunks fall down all the time and hit their heads. All it takes is for one person to say that they saw Lars fall down after this event, and the COD can be attributed to Lars being drunk and falling down and hitting his head on the Soi pavement.

A fracture bad enough to cause death, is more than likely going to put a drunk man unconscious on the spot! This fits the description of the room mugging, and not the bar.

There are simply too many holes in this story. The problem is that Thailand can hold foreigners up to 85 days in jail for no reason at all. This is an issue with the UN and human rights groups.

Methinks it is about fleecing the British men (known trouble makers) for money, while a more clandestine investigation is carried out to hunt for enough evidence to put this case to sleep, regardless of the truth.

[britmaveric]

Where would you find "a similar town"?

Filled with local hookers, pimps and bandits - blended with foreign drunks and other low life.

Most major city in the world, next question.

[geriatrickid]

Let's hope Thailand C.S.I. conducts the proper investigation, and that the surviving family members hire a proper forensics expert to examine that evidence

Interesting that there is an assumption that a CSI exists. The discussion illustrates my concerns that were ridiculed in respect to the presumed recent Bangkok apartment bomb, whereby the the fast statements made by police commanders as to the characteristics of the bomb including its components were immediately accepted by the very same people that are always questioning the reliability of the Thai police when it comes to suspicious foreigner deaths or events like this.

The consistency of Thailand is the consistency of its inconsistencies.

[thomo]

sorry, but nobody can comment on what happened and what didn't happen given the comprehension of the report in OP.

If anything it seems like bitter westerners trying to blame/slander Thais for a lowly western crime.

[Moonrakers]

sorry, but nobody can comment on what happened and what didn't happen given the comprehension of the report in OP.

Except for you, it would seem.

If anything it seems like bitter westerners trying to blame/slander Thais for a lowly western crime.

[thomo]

Shhhh Moonrakers.

[COXYATCITY]

Before making rash claims about the "dangers" of Pattaya, take an estimate of the average population, location and economy etc and then compare the crime figures with other similar towns - your theory will look sadly distorted.

Where would you find "a similar town"?

Filled with local hookers, pimps and bandits - blended with foreign drunks and other low life.

Please do not forget the good people here,there is a place a huge area of east Pattaya which is 6 -15 km,s out of town,where there are 250 plus Village,s,,which most are very good people are very nice ,bar for a few,Pattaya is much bigger now than the tourist area,s .e.g walking st,.beach rd, & & 3rd rd,Naklua ,Jomtien.,Pattaya /Thailand Bashers ,go somewhere else ,and bash them because you have problems in your head..

[COXYATCITY]

did this really happen,still no reports on the local news,i have been watching the local news with no mention of it.????????

[powderpuff]

If anything it seems like bitter westerners trying to blame/slander Thais for a lowly western crime.

Sounds like "Lars" got exactly what was coming to him.

[Moonrakers]

Shhhh Moonrakers.

[Deeral]

Well Thailand is number 1 for tourist deaths for Aussies as well as Brits.

'In the year to June 30 2009, a total of 105 Australians died in Thailand, according to the DFAT figures. This compares with 50 in the US and 58 in Indonesia, both countries with larger numbers of Aussie visitors'

Taken from Phuket Wan.

This has come up before, and the general consensus was that there are many more retirees in Thailand therefore death figures (which include old age) are higher than other mainly tourist destinations.

ie, smaller amounts of visitors , but many more long term visitors.

I dunno about that i would like to see the figures.

There are plenty of Aussie retirees in Indonesia particularly Bali and you don't hear the same sort of stories coming out of Bali or Indonesia as you do Thaialand on such a regular basis.

Oh no of course Bali - nothing ever happens there ?????

"similar"

If you are going to claim Pattaya as particularly violent then one must be comparing it ti something else - otherwise you can't suggest it is anything but normal,

if you compare cities of similar population etc, you'll find crime figures are just about the same - some countries have variations in the tyres of crime - e.g. guns etc) but you'll find that Pattaya doesn't deviate from any "norms"

As for "a lot of farangs" being involved in misadventure - well how "farang-centric" can you get? I think you'll find the numbers of "farng" in UK or USA who are involved/affected by crime is FAR higher than in Pattaya.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Deeral

[brahmburgers]

Please do not forget the good people here,there is a place a huge area of east Pattaya which is 6 -15 km,s out of town,where there are 250 plus Village,s,,which most are very good people are very nice ,bar for a few,Pattaya is much bigger now than the tourist area,s .e.g walking st,.beach rd, & & 3rd rd,Naklua ,Jomtien.,Pattaya /Thailand Bashers ,go somewhere else ,and bash them because you have problems in your head..

Those 250 plus villages would be a lot poorer if it weren't for the trickle down effect of the bustling town to its west. .....a town whose primary claim to fame is the plethora of teenage girls who will do anything for money.

[Deeral]

Please do not forget the good people here,there is a place a huge area of east Pattaya which is 6 -15 km,s out of town,where there are 250 plus Village,s,,which most are very good people are very nice ,bar for a few,Pattaya is much bigger now than the tourist area,s .e.g walking st,.beach rd, & & 3rd rd,Naklua ,Jomtien.,Pattaya /Thailand Bashers ,go somewhere else ,and bash them because you have problems in your head..

Those 250 plus villages would be a lot poorer if it weren't for the trickle down effect of the bustling town to its west. .....a town whose primary claim to fame is the plethora of teenage girls who will do anything for money.

Now if you'd said "young women" I think you might have a point - possibly as a perception - - but the use of the phrase "teenage girls" indicates to me a bit of wishful thinking on your part.

[cup-O-coffee]

sorry, but nobody can comment on what happened and what didn't happen given the comprehension of the report in OP.

If anything it seems like bitter westerners trying to blame/slander Thais for a lowly western crime.

I am speechless! There has got to be some sort of award for comments like this.

[souvenirdeparis]

I want to corrct my statemeny of yesterday, that I don't trust any Thaï; it is not true end unfair; there are several Thaï persons dear to me, and I respect the monks .

I used to roam Chiang Mai¨all night long and never had a shade of a problem.

Ko thôt na.

I know from personal experience a Thaï can blow a fuse easily, but the fact is I always managed to find a way out ; not in France in similar situations.

I am very sad at the present state of Thaïland; I am sad that any wrong doer can get a visa ; what's the use of a visa then? only money -making.

Now I had a flaming comment about my being French yesterday; I trust the person never had a problem with a French ; I didn't encounter dangerous French in Asia, just one or two harmless weirdos,the rest being decent people ( Idon't consider French whose only link to France is the engraving on their passport , do you?)

I'm sick and tired of the French Jokes, like blondes are are of blonde jokes, and will act accordingly from now on.

I am disappointed at the total lack of solidarity on this thread ; it's prejudice vs prejudice. There used to be a warm feeling between expats, but it no longer is the case.

Edited October 9, 2010 by souvenirdeparis

[COXYATCITY]

Please do not forget the good people here,there is a place a huge area of east Pattaya which is 6 -15 km,s out of town,where there are 250 plus Village,s,,which most are very good people are very nice ,bar for a few,Pattaya is much bigger now than the tourist area,s .e.g walking st,.beach rd, & & 3rd rd,Naklua ,Jomtien.,Pattaya /Thailand Bashers ,go somewhere else ,and bash them because you have problems in your head..

Those 250 plus villages would be a lot poorer if it weren't for the trickle down effect of the bustling town to its west. .....a town whose primary claim to fame is the plethora of teenage girls who will do anything for money.

Bram your are out of order,poorer for what,what do you mean ,have you ever been here,or are you just a news reader who believes everything you read,teenage girls who will do anything for money is this what you fantasize about .look at the bar they raided in town a few days ago soi 6,ladies 22-37 years of age,you must be looking for teenagers,and it is people like you who try to bring shame on this city/ country it must be so perfect where you live,do not think so

[souvenirdeparis]

trickle down economics, Reaganomics.

Prostitution is not a great idea for human development in the long, medium, short run.

[brahmburgers]

Please do not forget the good people here,there is a place a huge area of east Pattaya which is 6 -15 km,s out of town,where there are 250 plus Village,s,,which most are very good people are very nice ,bar for a few,Pattaya is much bigger now than the tourist area,s .e.g walking st,.beach rd, & & 3rd rd,Naklua ,Jomtien.,Pattaya /Thailand Bashers ,go somewhere else ,and bash them because you have problems in your head..

Those 250 plus villages would be a lot poorer if it weren't for the trickle down effect of the bustling town to its west. .....a town whose primary claim to fame is the plethora of teenage girls who will do anything for money.

Now if you'd said "young women" I think you might have a point - possibly as a perception - - but the use of the phrase "teenage girls" indicates to me a bit of wishful thinking on your part.

Why would I 'wish' for the main revenue train in Pattaya area to be driven by teenage girls? I report it as I see it. It's no secret, and it's a sad state of affairs, particularly if you have a perception of how the girls' childhood gets ripped off in the process - besides the other gaping drawbacks of being a sex-worker from the ages 15 to 25. What happens to the women when they're no longer useful in that context? It's easy to turn one's head away and not see the consequences.

[brahmburgers]

Please do not forget the good people here,there is a place a huge area of east Pattaya which is 6 -15 km,s out of town,where there are 250 plus Village,s,,which most are very good people are very nice ,bar for a few,Pattaya is much bigger now than the tourist area,s .e.g walking st,.beach rd, & & 3rd rd,Naklua ,Jomtien.,Pattaya /Thailand Bashers ,go somewhere else ,and bash them because you have problems in your head..

Those 250 plus villages would be a lot poorer if it weren't for the trickle down effect of the bustling town to its west. .....a town whose primary claim to fame is the plethora of teenage girls who will do anything for money.

Bram your are out of order,poorer for what,what do you mean ,have you ever been here,or are you just a news reader who believes everything you read,teenage girls who will do anything for money is this what you fantasize about .look at the bar they raided in town a few days ago soi 6,ladies 22-37 years of age,you must be looking for teenagers,and it is people like you who try to bring shame on this city/ country it must be so perfect where you live,do not think so

No, not perfect where I reside. I've been to Pattaya twice, average 2 days each visit. Was glad to be leaving each time. I call it as I see it. If you have a different perception, then express yourself.

[Deeral]

Please do not forget the good people here,there is a place a huge area of east Pattaya which is 6 -15 km,s out of town,where there are 250 plus Village,s,,which most are very good people are very nice ,bar for a few,Pattaya is much bigger now than the tourist area,s .e.g walking st,.beach rd, & & 3rd rd,Naklua ,Jomtien.,Pattaya /Thailand Bashers ,go somewhere else ,and bash them because you have problems in your head..

Those 250 plus villages would be a lot poorer if it weren't for the trickle down effect of the bustling town to its west. .....a town whose primary claim to fame is the plethora of teenage girls who will do anything for money.

Now if you'd said "young women" I think you might have a point - possibly as a perception - - but the use of the phrase "teenage girls" indicates to me a bit of wishful thinking on your part.

Why would I 'wish' for the main revenue train in Pattaya area to be driven by teenage girls? I report it as I see it. It's no secret, and it's a sad state of affairs, particularly if you have a perception of how the girls' childhood gets ripped off in the process - besides the other gaping drawbacks of being a sex-worker from the ages 15 to 25. What happens to the women when they're no longer useful in that context? It's easy to turn one's head away and not see the consequences.

Your obsession with the "salacious" and your underestimating (on purpose?) of the ages coupled with your lack of experience of Pattay would suggest that the topic rather than the reality is your main preoccupation.

I think you are getting a well deserved pasting for your comments.

Edited October 9, 2010 by Deeral

[JRinger]

It's like this.....

Great Britain is the largest of the British Isles. The Island nation consists of three separate countries: England, Scotland and Wales. I am English, and I have a British passport.

A Scotsman will also have a British passport but that does not make him English nor Welsh. Likewise with the Welsh. The British passport does refer to the three separate countries but does not specify which one in particular we are from.

Just to re-iterate. I am English AND British.

I could confuse matters further by mentioning The United Kingdom which includes the three countries mentioned already PLUS N. Ireland, but it's best to keep it simple for now methinks.

yes, our passport states 'United Kingdom Of Great Britain and Northern Ireland', and you quite rightly point out that Great Britain consists of England, Scotland and Wales, and as and English man I am also a British Man

and how is any of this related to the topic? and who cares anyway ?

[souvenirdeparis]

funny how you Brits all beat around the bush , ie that the Irish ( from Ulster ) aren't British .

[jackr]

Obviously coming from where you do with a nick such as yours, I don't think you have the right to question anything outside of your gormless little haven.

[souvenirdeparis]

sad to see once more it has come to that, but nothing new .

[angrypassenger]

You are the only one who got the point-- those 3 Thais --not that difficult to track these guys --but I believe these 3 Thais are working for the Dark influence of Pattaya -- like Dawood Ibrahim of Pakistan control Mumbai police ! Got my point who the Dawood Ibrahim of Chonburi is ?? He lives in Cambodia now !so who is going to touch these 3 Thais ?--Police in pattaya are also for sale--95 % discount - !!

Seems like the Dane was out for trouble and hit one of the English Guys from behind.

The other one hit him back.

But the Dane walked away.

Possible attack by 3 Thais needs investigation.

Very easy for Police to charge the English guys, but it smells fishy to me.

[axact]

Let me start off by saying I,m British [Welsh] but unfortunately the low life scum that get involved in this type of behaviour have been ruining Pattaya for a good few years now . What do you expect when they are catered for by wall to wall football , cheap booze and women and a police force that will turn a blind eye to their drunken outrages . The only thing they understand is the big stick and this needs to be wielded in no uncertain fashion to sicken these louts . The UK is a hel_l hole thanks to these refugees from the Jeremy Kyle show and everywhere they set foot in Europe , they have caused mayhem too . Basically they have no respect for themselves or anyone else and the sooner the better the Thai authorities start handing out draconian sentences , the better ...It really is the only thing they understand . Who in their right mind goes 6,000 miles around the world to do the same as they could do any weekend in their own cess pit of a city back home ? The mind boggles .

What a load of sh_t

One has to much to drink and immediately becomes a low life scum because he is British and should be locked up for ever... I assume you were at this incident and the British obviously were to blame especially as other europeans would never hit someone from behind and of course it never takes two to fight.

I am unsure what the Jeremy Kyle show is or where the refugees are from but I guess you spend all your time watching it so perhaps you could enlighten us, you watch it because ???

The cess pit in every city in the UK has girls available for 500 bt, a beach, cheap booze and constant hot weather.... you must have lived in a different place called the UK than I do, my UK is an island off the coast of Europe, where is yours, I suggest you are a Sun or daily sport reader who actually believes the crap they print..

The UK is a He-l hole ? Not from my experience and i an sure most Britons would disagree with you, perhaps you lived in a slum and never travelled out of your area or maybe you are just a blinkered old horse who would be better off as glue

Your post must be one of the most moronic I have seen on a forum and to other readers I can only apologise and stress that the Welsh in general are nothing like this idiot poster.

[dekbahnnok]

This story does not make any sense. The odds of being in a bar fight with fellow farangs, then upon your return back to your room three Thais attack and beat you are..........nearly zero. Since we almost never receive good information from these news reports, we are forced to make out own conclusions. I am guessing he received a traumatic brain injury from his fall to the floor, which he later died of. The job of the Thai police is not to actually solve crime, but to spin each crime to minimize damage to the tourist image. Some police sergeant must have decided that fellow farangs killing you in a bar does not sound very good. So suddenly there are " mysterious Thais" who come to your room and kill you, who of course will never be caught.

drunken foreigners get robbed all the time,,,,easy pickings,,,,where was this guy staying? no cctv?....this guy sounds like an aggressive drunk....maybe he was mouthing off to the Soi taxis boys....stories like this should serve as warnings....partying should not blind a new father to his responsibilities as a father....the arrested are a cash opportunity

[BossHogg]

I was so ignorred when the kid was born, I wasn't allowed toclean him, nor feed him a baby bottle at night,etc; I got extrememly frustrated of it and grew angry .I could take over when he grew older; I found the mother is a decided imbecile and we eventually divorced She asked the divorce on grounds I was aggressive with the baby ! I'll never expect any fair play from a thaï now.

You married the wrong Thai women who obviously disliked you. Now you're laying the blame on a whole nation. Is that "fair play"?

So she married a guy she didnt like ...and thats his fault? how is your criticism "Fair play". Why marry a guy that you "obviously disliked"? Then you blame the guy for getting married?