'Cash For Thai University Degrees' Racket To Be Exposed : Activist

[mark45y]

I have met 5 people, 2 of which I know personally, who have Masters in English, and not a single one of them can sit down a write a simple paragraph describing what they did today.

That's probably because we who have taught in English Master's programs here in Thai universities are not allowed to give any student below a B grade for any course.

If you insist on giving poor-performing students the grades they deserve, they later get "magically" changed by someone in administration. Or, you are forced to teach the same course again, without pay, to the students who earned a C grade or below. If you continue the practice of giving less than B grades, you can count on the result that your own contract will not be renewed the next time around.

That's the system.

One consequence is that many well-qualified English-native-speaker instructors opt out of teaching in the program, as I have done myself. The other result is reflected in your above post.

I worked with a lady who was an old friend of the family for 35 years. I helped set her father up in business when I was in the military here in the 1960's.

The lady had an MBA and was quite bright. She went through all of the paperwork to get approval for a trade school to teach hotel and restaurant administration. I was helping her with her international program as she planned on offering the classes to students from other countries.

The forms were many but after a year she was legal and also approved to apply for government student loans. The government was also pushing her to offer the program to students from other countries.

She enrolled 30 students to start with (she had an existing English school).

One day she got tired of the girls playing during class and using their cell phones. She read them the riot act.

The entire class quit.

I had actually been excited by the school and her idea as the school location and her dormitory facilities made it possible to offer a quality education at far less than equivalent schools in Bangkok.

She agreed with me that producing students who actually had work experience instead of only text book learning was necessary and we had worked out a curriculum and apprenticeship program with some local hotels and restaurants. Three hours practical study and one in the classroom.

The hotels also funded part of the students education expenses.

I was looking forward to producing hotel and restaurant managers who could actually check in a guest, make a bed, cook and speak English. We were aiming at entry level positions, two year trade school, associates degree rather than bachelors degree.

I have dealt with University graduates with degrees in English and agree the standard of competence is appalling.

Before I retired I worked in government schools and private schools and played the grading game. The only satisfactory alternative I found was working directly for a private company in industry. The company paid the tuition and the employees hourly rate for attending classes. If the students did not learn I called the boss and he talked to them and/or kicked them out the program. They learned how to speak business oriented English in a relatively short period of time.

There is an Aussie who teaches English to junior Naval officers around here. I have never met him but have heard he threatens to have his students shot if they don't pay attention. Now that's a good idea!

[Ricardo]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

I wouldn't get too carried away there. I chart of accounts is a pretty simple request. I would expect anyone who has been to a business school of any kind to understand the term. How you want it set up is secondary. Use a computer or do it long hand in any event a chart of accounts is something available in any business. If an MBA didn't understand the term they are not an MBA in any normal sense of the word.

I have an MBA.

I do not understand what a chart of accounts is supposed to mean.

Based upon my employment criteria, employer and peer reviews I am judged competent to perform my job and receive a large salary with performance bonuses. And yet, I had no idea what was meant by the reference to a chart of accounts. Sorry,

I have had a lot of businesses and worked for a lot of businesses over the past 40 years. Restaurants, hospitals, manufacturing, oil and gas supply and maintenance and many more. They had one thing in common. They all had a chart of accounts. If a person does not recognize the term a one second search on google will rectify the lack of knowledge.

Google. A list of all account names and numbers used in a company's general ledger.

I assume you understand what a general ledger is.

I too am an internationally-experienced Chartered Management Accountant, and have worked with several company-ledger systems, but like Geriatrickid had never come across the term "Chart of Accounts" before, perhaps it is commonly-used in some countries (I'd guess at the USA ?) but not used elsewhere ? Perhaps 'Table of Accounts' or 'Accounts-Listing' is used here in Thailand instead ?

Whatever, the corrupt University stands exposed (Good !) and so should the full list of 'fake' graduates, to their shame.

[Xangsamhua]

He called on them to come forward or file criminal actions against the person in question or fellow officials who persuaded them to buy the degrees, collecting a commission in return.

Marc and Sherry Lewis are Georgia (USA) natives who love Jesus and the great commission.

Marc and Sherry may wish to consider rephrasing their intro.

They're referring to Matthew 28:16-20 in which Jesus is said to have authorised his apostles to teach and baptize the whole world.

This text is most likely a product of Matthew's community dating from the early second century, perhaps 80-100 years after Jesus' death. The inserted text puts words in Jesus' mouth which contradict what he said in Matthew 10:5-8 and 15: 24 where he expressly forbids his apostles to approach non-Jews. Baptizing "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" was a formula never seen in any early text before the second century. Fundamentalist Christians love the "Great Commission" text because they think it gives them carte blanche to carry their message into every corner of the earth.

[OzMick]

I think I'd rather pay the B100,000 than have my lecturer's abuse the authority of their position to foist their irrational beliefs.

[Tatsujin]

I teach English in my home for free to those who truly want to learn. I currently have 8 "students".

I strongly encourage others to do the same thing with those around them. Do it for fun and do it for free. Trust me, you'll feel good about it at the end of the day.

If anyone is interested, and wants to see what I use as an example to start their own teaching, pm me with email address.

Expect a knock on the door . . . you're working illegally . . . guess who also reads TV . . .

[Tatsujin]

I assume you understand what a general ledger is.

General Ledger, is he the Thai bloke with all the medals in charge of the library.

No, he's the one that just got promoted to head the Army I believe

[mca]

I teach English in my home for free to those who truly want to learn. I currently have 8 "students".

I strongly encourage others to do the same thing with those around them. Do it for fun and do it for free. Trust me, you'll feel good about it at the end of the day.

If anyone is interested, and wants to see what I use as an example to start their own teaching, pm me with email address.

Expect a knock on the door . . . you're working illegally . . . guess who also reads TV . . .

Attention all units. Be on the look out for a westerner teaching English for free. We're currently searching immigration records for a man by the name of Just1Voice.

[spiderleghead]

For those wishing to help the school, this is on NorthEastern University's Campus Outreach website:

You can pray for the NEU team and ministry by choosing the "Prayer Requests" link on the navigation menu.

http://thailand.camp...university-neu-

There are a lot of Christian fundamentalist farang staff there at the university, such as:

Marc and Sherry Lewis are Georgia (USA) natives who love Jesus and the great commission. Marc's campus focus is on the Northeastern University campus in Khon Kaen. The staff team at NEU spend the majority of their time building friendships with students in order to share the gospel with them, lead them to Christ, establish them in their faith and train them to be multiplying disciples. God has begun a good work at NEU that is only the beginning and foundation of what is to come.

<deleted>??? this is crazy, muslims in the south, christians in the north, here i am stuck in the middle with jews

[Lifer]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

You got to be kidding, or haven't had much business related college education. Every 1st year accounting student is taught what a chart of account is. I agree that a 4 year college degree at most colleges here is only worth about a what high school or Jr. College degree is worth from a state accredited institution.

[neverdie]

guess who also reads TV . . .

General Ledger?

[dekbahnnok]

For those wishing to help the school, this is on NorthEastern University's Campus Outreach website:

You can pray for the NEU team and ministry by choosing the "Prayer Requests" link on the navigation menu.

http://thailand.camp...university-neu-

There are a lot of Christian fundamentalist farang staff there at the university, such as:

Marc and Sherry Lewis are Georgia (USA) natives who love Jesus and the great commission. Marc's campus focus is on the Northeastern University campus in Khon Kaen. The staff team at NEU spend the majority of their time building friendships with students in order to share the gospel with them, lead them to Christ, establish them in their faith and train them to be multiplying disciples. God has begun a good work at NEU that is only the beginning and foundation of what is to come.

sound like priests

[dekbahnnok]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

You got to be kidding, or haven't had much business related college education. Every 1st year accounting student is taught what a chart of account is. I agree that a 4 year college degree at most colleges here is only worth about a what high school or Jr. College degree is worth from a state accredited institution.

you used to be able to buy degrees around Banglampu for cheap....or a visa or passport or drivers license or Thai ID.....ever wonder why so many 20 year old girls look 15?

[chiang mai]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

I wouldn't get too carried away there. I chart of accounts is a pretty simple request. I would expect anyone who has been to a business school of any kind to understand the term. How you want it set up is secondary. Use a computer or do it long hand in any event a chart of accounts is something available in any business. If an MBA didn't understand the term they are not an MBA in any normal sense of the word.

I have an MBA.

I do not understand what a chart of accounts is supposed to mean.

Based upon my employment criteria, employer and peer reviews I am judged competent to perform my job and receive a large salary with performance bonuses. And yet, I had no idea what was meant by the reference to a chart of accounts. Sorry,

I find that very surprising since it's a fundamental accounting and business element, when did you do your MBA and if you wish to share, where? Perhaps the year of the MBA is the issue here?

[Thaddeus]

guess who also reads TV . . .

General Ledger?

a green would normally been forthcoming, best laugh all day, mind you I did spend a fair portion of it in Big C.

[Estrada]

He wasn't selling real Bachelor Degrees but according to Khun Sompoch Sombat ACE reporter for the Nation(MBA English?), he was selling what he calls "Bechalor's Degrees"! Therefore they would not be forgeries but merely fun degrees which would be instantly recognisable as fun degree certificates due to the deliberate spelling mistake, quote:

'Cash for degrees' racket to be exposed : activist

By Sompoch Sombat

The Nation

Khon Kaen - A criminal action is set to be taken against a private university in Khon Kaen province for "selling" bechalor's degrees to hundreds of buyers each for Bt100,000, an activist representing teachers in both private and government schools said yesterday.

Note: There is no degree for sale racket to expose as it has been common knowledge for years that you can buy your degree here. I recall that back in the late 1990's quite a number of Thai Politicians were exposed as having bought degrees from a certain University in the Philippines that they had never attended.

[hardy1943]

For those wishing to help the school, this is on NorthEastern University's Campus Outreach website:

You can pray for the NEU team and ministry by choosing the “Prayer Requests” link on the navigation menu.

http://thailand.campusoutreach.org/northeastern-university-neu-

There are a lot of Christian fundamentalist farang staff there at the university, such as:

Marc and Sherry Lewis are Georgia (USA) natives who love Jesus and the great commission. Marc's campus focus is on the Northeastern University campus in Khon Kaen. The staff team at NEU spend the majority of their time building friendships with students in order to share the gospel with them, lead them to Christ, establish them in their faith and train them to be multiplying disciples. God has begun a good work at NEU that is only the beginning and foundation of what is to come.

Very common in the USA,the elite sends their not so smart child to a private University down to the Southern States and a degree is guaranteed. Worked with Bush JR even at a top Univerity I guess father had enough clout

[cutter007]

I have an MBA.

I do not understand what a chart of accounts is supposed to mean.

Based upon my employment criteria, employer and peer reviews I am judged competent to perform my job and receive a large salary with performance bonuses. And yet, I had no idea what was meant by the reference to a chart of accounts. Sorry,

Did you by chance buy that MBA from a university in Khon Kean?

I don't know how anyone from a decent western university with a bachelors degree in business couldn't know what it is.

You learn it probably the first 2 weeks of accounting 101, and without knowing what it is you can't do even the most basic accounting.

I have met a lot of Thai's with business bachelors degrees that definitely couldn't tell you what one is,

but after you explain it you see some recollection.

But for a Thai graduate with an MBA that is pretty bad.

My method:

Thai bachelors degree = Western high school education

Thai MBA or masters = Western bachelors degree

[toybits]

Shouldn't the buyer of the fake degree also be charged? Buying that fake degree to me - constitutes an act of fraud. So vendor and vendee should be equally guilty.

[slapout]

Shouldn't the buyer of the fake degree also be charged? Buying that fake degree to me - constitutes an act of fraud. So vendor and vendee should be equally guilty.

Some of the ones that should be charged and jailed are probably covered by their status/position, of which immunity is a perk of the job.

[dighambara]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?" So on asking how she got her degree the answer was 50% attendance and 50% pass mark. Maybe things have changed!!! So if she turned up and slept - then handed in a bad thesis, which she obviously did - she still would get a pass and a degree.

When I see the continuing ceremonial handouts every few weeks in papers I can't help buy laugh as they are about as worthless as bus tickets and issued the same way. These kids do get 'some' education and they believe what they ARE learning is good. But by international standards unless they are Chula grads, I would be highly skeptical of their ability to apply what they have learned or rather be able to quantify what they claim to have learned. Whilst there are good and bad in Thai universities standards, something such as this guy selling 'paper' to allow Thai's to get further up the food chain is not much different from my MBA grad! The person at the top does not necessarily have any qualifications for the job they are empowered to handle.

You would do better to hire an American who didn't finish High School. If he didn't know how to do something, he would find out and get the job done - likely much better than you expected. This goes for Thais raised in the states as well.

A Thai friend graduated from HS in California and works in a local mall, but his Thai employers think his Education is like a Thai education and they are wrong. Having worked in the US, he understands business and the American work ethic. From friends, he learned a lot about automobiles and other common US activities. He was into hunting with friends in the US, so knows more about guns than most Thai Policemen, but considering their training, or lack thereof that isn't surprising...

Meaning - he is knowledgeable and a hard worker, but his bosses promote the folks who bought their degrees. An attitude that predicts the 'crash and burn' of their business...

Edited October 8, 2010 by dighambara

[TAWP]

Spend 4 years and pay 3-8k per semester or pay for the paper right away for 100k...with possibly the same amount of knowledge retained...what is the problem?

I am paying 30,000 a semester for my daughter to go to Bangkok University.

If you don't care about being a part of the top universities in the city there are several fairly cheap ones that almost basically guarantee that you will pass. But you have to sit out the time and do the tests.

[UberBraun]

<deleted> the holy rollers. Put a bullet in their brain and put them out of our misery.

Edited October 8, 2010 by UberBraun

[Likenitstill]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

I wouldn't get too carried away there. I chart of accounts is a pretty simple request. I would expect anyone who has been to a business school of any kind to understand the term. How you want it set up is secondary. Use a computer or do it long hand in any event a chart of accounts is something available in any business. If an MBA didn't understand the term they are not an MBA in any normal sense of the word.

Totaly agree, My wife has a business degree from a University in Bangkok but has no real clue how to create a business plan or a budget for that matter. While her and her family have run a business for years they have no clue how much goes out to what comes in. Never have they created a budget or forecast.

My wifes cousin just graduated from University with a business degree she has no clue how to use excel for that matter, wishes to start a business and is needing financial help. I asked her to create a business plan with forecast and expenses etc....has no clue!

[mark45y]

For those wishing to help the school, this is on NorthEastern University's Campus Outreach website:

You can pray for the NEU team and ministry by choosing the “Prayer Requests” link on the navigation menu.

http://thailand.campusoutreach.org/northeastern-university-neu-

There are a lot of Christian fundamentalist farang staff there at the university, such as:

Marc and Sherry Lewis are Georgia (USA) natives who love Jesus and the great commission. Marc's campus focus is on the Northeastern University campus in Khon Kaen. The staff team at NEU spend the majority of their time building friendships with students in order to share the gospel with them, lead them to Christ, establish them in their faith and train them to be multiplying disciples. God has begun a good work at NEU that is only the beginning and foundation of what is to come.

Very common in the USA,the elite sends their not so smart child to a private University down to the Southern States and a degree is guaranteed. Worked with Bush JR even at a top Univerity I guess father had enough clout

Absolute BS from start of your post to the finish. There are no guaranteed degrees. Bush also flew a jet fighter. I suppose dummies do that as a rule. Or did he hire someone to fly it for him?

Schools in the US are accredited by a number of accrediting institutions. Check the school and the accrediting agency if you have any questions.

I think you may be surprised to know that in many instances it is easier to get into Oxford than Yale where Bush went to school.

I doubt you have the interest but google Oxford vs. Harvard, Yale, Princeton. That should set your anti American brain straight.

[yesdavy]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

I cannot believe any adult that has owned or managed a business or any freshman accounting student would not fully understand a chart of accounts. Vocational school students that barely make it through high school learn how to set up a chart of accounts in Quickbooks class.

Edited October 8, 2010 by yesdavy

[yesdavy]

For those wishing to help the school, this is on NorthEastern University's Campus Outreach website:

You can pray for the NEU team and ministry by choosing the "Prayer Requests" link on the navigation menu.

http://thailand.camp...university-neu-

There are a lot of Christian fundamentalist farang staff there at the university, such as:

Marc and Sherry Lewis are Georgia (USA) natives who love Jesus and the great commission. Marc's campus focus is on the Northeastern University campus in Khon Kaen. The staff team at NEU spend the majority of their time building friendships with students in order to share the gospel with them, lead them to Christ, establish them in their faith and train them to be multiplying disciples. God has begun a good work at NEU that is only the beginning and foundation of what is to come.

Very common in the USA,the elite sends their not so smart child to a private University down to the Southern States and a degree is guaranteed. Worked with Bush JR even at a top Univerity I guess father had enough clout

Better to keep your words to yourself and be thought a fool than to roll them out and remove all doubt.

[puipuitom]

And then astonished, if for many foreigners ( farangs) a Thai bacherlor degree is seen as a " high school" certificate. NO MORE !

My own experience since 1993 with Thai graduates: so dramatic low education, their diploma's are worth nothing as their knowledge is dramatic low. That's why so many go for a 1-2 years to a foreign Uni, mostly to studty English. But.. graduated .. or only stayed 2 years abroad ?

Really: Amazing Thailand !

[puipuitom]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

I wouldn't get too carried away there. I chart of accounts is a pretty simple request. I would expect anyone who has been to a business school of any kind to understand the term. How you want it set up is secondary. Use a computer or do it long hand in any event a chart of accounts is something available in any business. If an MBA didn't understand the term they are not an MBA in any normal sense of the word.

I have an MBA.

I do not understand what a chart of accounts is supposed to mean.

Based upon my employment criteria, employer and peer reviews I am judged competent to perform my job and receive a large salary with performance bonuses. And yet, I had no idea what was meant by the reference to a chart of accounts. Sorry,

Me too, after Physics in 1974 I graduated from University of Amsterdam in Business Economics ( Drs ) as evening study after 8 years in 1990, but still.. with only this question, you would get the same reply.

[RKASA]

I employed an MBA grad on arrival in 2000 at a good salary and after a month things were fine until I asked her to set up a chart of accounts! The response was 'What's that?"

I do not think any MBA graduate would understand the request. Do you mean a spread sheet listing? What info did you want in the chart? Providing clear and comprehensible instructions to personnel is a key part of getting things done.

Only if they forgot some time after the 2 year at community collage or never took a basic book keeping course. :jap: I would say many MBA would know but every bookkeeper does for sure. GAAP

[jcbangkok]

And then astonished, if for many foreigners ( farangs) a Thai bacherlor degree is seen as a " high school" certificate. NO MORE !

My own experience since 1993 with Thai graduates: so dramatic low education, their diploma's are worth nothing as their knowledge is dramatic low. That's why so many go for a 1-2 years to a foreign Uni, mostly to studty English. But.. graduated .. or only stayed 2 years abroad ?

Really: Amazing Thailand !

Although I "might" not go as far as saying it is "seen as" but in some cases my understanding is this is absolutely correct. As I understand it, working as a clerk in a store in the mall or possibly even at the 7-11 requires a college degree. But on the other hand, there does seem to be some respect given to those who finish high school as opposed to just the education the government pays for which I think is through the 8th grade.

I also wanted to point out that there are a number of private schools that are great. I know some Thai youngsters and teens that go to them and they speak English very well. Much better than those in the US having and continuing to take classes to learn another language at this same age. I also have a step-daughter who goes to BKK University and she does very well.

Bottom line is Thailand's eduction is improving and faces the same problems other countries face but being a developing nation, we see it on a much larger scale. The other point is that students CAN learn and can MATCH the education level of similar countries in similar grades but they can also skate by much easier. I cannot help but wonder if this partially has to do with the "saving face" attitude that is common in Thailand. I mean this must make it hard to tell somebody who has paid for an education that they have wasted their money and time because they are not getting a diploma ... same with correcting tests or putting them on the spot in a classroom.

What is funny is I can tell you the first days at BKK Univ. were much about what could be tolerated or looked down upon in terms of dress and what could not be. Appearance is everything.

Edited October 8, 2010 by jcbangkok