Sex Tourism Is On The Decline

[capKnuckle]

last night at 1030 pm there were 5 upstanding gentlemen at rainbow 2 in nana plaza. never thought id say it -but if the sex tourists stop coming to thailand it cant be good for los tourist trade in general.

[bangkokcitylimits]

Isan already suffers water shortages... now this !

[highchol]

Isan already suffers water shortages... now this !

no naam shortages on thai visa!

[IanForbes]

The falling value of the dollar and the Euro, in comparison to the Thai baht, has something to do with it. And, the problems between the Reds and the Yellows presented a lot of bad press in foreign countries. Tourism will pick up in a month and a half. Everything runs in cycles. It will turn back again in a few years.

[capKnuckle]

no no no! you see nana are popular with japaness businessmen and their currency is booming.

the world economies are picking up, except the usa which is trying to socialize itself,

i think its fundamental change , not just a cycle, when the world was in dire starits the bars were still brimming w businessmen..............lol.

los is becoming irrelevant!

the new song will say one night in bangkok,,,,,,,,,,,,,who care!

[travelmann]

Does that include yourself??

As a researcher obviously.

"last night at 1030 pm there were 5 upstanding gentlemen at rainbow 2 in nana plaza. never thought id say it -but if the sex tourists stop coming to thailand it cant be good for los tourist trade in general.

"

[evanson]

The falling value of the dollar and the Euro, in comparison to the Thai baht, has something to do with it. And, the problems between the Reds and the Yellows presented a lot of bad press in foreign countries. Tourism will pick up in a month and a half. Everything runs in cycles. It will turn back again in a few years.

Ah well, every cloud has a silver lining, and all that.

[Boater]

and why are you complaining? , just means you get a better selection, and of course a better price

[basjke]

and why are you complaining? , just means you get a better selection, and of course a better price

Everyone knows that this would be against Thai logic.

[capKnuckle]

re price.

one would think it would be price advantage to the consumer but girls dont seem to go for it. if you aint selling at 2k , one might try 1.5k..............but not thai girls. dont they teach price elasticity and all that nonsense in issan?

[Forethat]

i think its fundamental change , not just a cycle

I agree. I believe the industry peaked three years ago. With respect to agogo-bars in Bangkok I also believe Nana was overtaken by Cowboy as the "place to be" last year; I drive past both said establishments daily and can tell the concentration of customers has shifted. My impression also is that the customers opts for Pattaya, Pukhet and similar instead of going to Bangkok.

On the other hand; if it has changed, it can change again.

[moe666]

re price.

one would think it would be price advantage to the consumer but girls dont seem to go for it. if you aint selling at 2k , one might try 1.5k..............but not thai girls. dont they teach price elasticity and all that nonsense in issan?

Not when they think it is made out of gold.

[moe666]

no no no! you see nana are popular with japaness businessmen and their currency is booming.

the world economies are picking up, except the usa which is trying to socialize itself,

i think its fundamental change , not just a cycle, when the world was in dire starits the bars were still brimming w businessmen..............lol.

los is becoming irrelevant!

the new song will say one night in bangkok,,,,,,,,,,,,,who care!

In the 60s in japan the bars were filled with Japanese whores but as their economy improved they started importing Thai whores. But Thailand will not improve the lot of poor Issan people and there will be a steady stream of young girls coming to Bangkok to make the big bucks.They just need customers who will eventually come back. Sooner or later the investors will pull their money from Thailand.

Then the baht will fall like a rock.

[DMC1]

I think that more people meet on the internet nowadays and skip around the meeting in the bar bit...

[Forethat]

one would think it would be price advantage to the consumer but girls dont seem to go for it. if you aint selling at 2k , one might try 1.5k..............but not thai girls. dont they teach price elasticity and all that nonsense in issan?

This is a principle that applies not only to Isaan girls, but to the entire Thai society, including the upper class.

Last year in May I found a condo up for rent. The price was set at 100k/month. I did a little bit of research (I bribed one of the members of the staff to give me the info) and found out the condo had been up for 12 months. With this in mind I gave the owner an offer of 90k/month. This was declined. The problem was the condo was absolutely pristine (and the missus LOVED it), so I raised the offer to 95K. This was again declined and the owner said she'd accept 98k. I was a bit sad about this because I really liked the condo - it was perfect for us. However, with the current economic situation I was advised to ask for AT LEAST 20% discount on the asking price, so I decided to pass.

Three months later I'm in desperate need of a condo and despite viewing more than 50 condos I can't find a place as nice as the 100k one, so I told my agent to check if the place was still available for 98k. Now the old hag says she wants 100k again.

This story teaches me there's nothing logical about the way Thai people thinks. I am confident this is a cultural feature that spans the entire spectrum of ages, origin and class. So don't expect the price for a shag to drop simply because there are a couple of thousand girls available for every customer in Nana plaza.

[bangkokcitylimits]

and why are you complaining? , just means you get a better selection, and of course a better price

Especially on the 30th or 31st of every month, next day they need to pay for their room !

But not in Chiang Mai, here shortages make them increase the rates. 'Chiang Mai-logics'

[Loz]

there's a reason Its called The oldest profession. it's going nowhere. as long as men are born with small heads there will be an industry for them to bury them in.

[digibum]

one would think it would be price advantage to the consumer but girls dont seem to go for it. if you aint selling at 2k , one might try 1.5k..............but not thai girls. dont they teach price elasticity and all that nonsense in issan?

This is a principle that applies not only to Isaan girls, but to the entire Thai society, including the upper class.

Last year in May I found a condo up for rent. The price was set at 100k/month. I did a little bit of research (I bribed one of the members of the staff to give me the info) and found out the condo had been up for 12 months. With this in mind I gave the owner an offer of 90k/month. This was declined. The problem was the condo was absolutely pristine (and the missus LOVED it), so I raised the offer to 95K. This was again declined and the owner said she'd accept 98k. I was a bit sad about this because I really liked the condo - it was perfect for us. However, with the current economic situation I was advised to ask for AT LEAST 20% discount on the asking price, so I decided to pass.

Three months later I'm in desperate need of a condo and despite viewing more than 50 condos I can't find a place as nice as the 100k one, so I told my agent to check if the place was still available for 98k. Now the old hag says she wants 100k again.

This story teaches me there's nothing logical about the way Thai people thinks. I am confident this is a cultural feature that spans the entire spectrum of ages, origin and class. So don't expect the price for a shag to drop simply because there are a couple of thousand girls available for every customer in Nana plaza.

Really?!?! You found your dream condo and walked on a 3% difference? Sounds like you're the one that needs to learn about economics (or at least negotiation).

When I found my current condo they were asking 28,000. I offered 20,000 and didn't move. I got the place for 20,000 even though I had already seen other similar units advertised in the same building for 30,000. So I got a 28% discount off the asking price from a Thai landlord and via a Thai estate agent. Have you ever considered the landlord wouldn't budge because she simply doesn't like you? I have people propose jobs or business offers to me all the time and if I don't like the person or don't want the job I quote a very high rate and refuse to negotiate down. It's a polite way of saying "F*** off."

[digibum]

there's a reason Its called The oldest profession. it's going nowhere. as long as men are born with small heads there will be an industry for them to bury them in.

The profession itself may always exist but whether or not it flourishes in Thailand is what the topic of this thread seems to be about. I don't think anybody is suggesting a binary future where either there is or isn't prostitution in Thailand. What was being suggested is that perhaps people are taking their prostitution dollars to other destinations.

[meom]

This is a principle that applies not only to Isaan girls, but to the entire Thai society, including the upper class.

Last year in May I found a condo up for rent. The price was set at 100k/month. I did a little bit of research (I bribed one of the members of the staff to give me the info) and found out the condo had been up for 12 months. With this in mind I gave the owner an offer of 90k/month. This was declined. The problem was the condo was absolutely pristine (and the missus LOVED it), so I raised the offer to 95K. This was again declined and the owner said she'd accept 98k. I was a bit sad about this because I really liked the condo - it was perfect for us. However, with the current economic situation I was advised to ask for AT LEAST 20% discount on the asking price, so I decided to pass.

Three months later I'm in desperate need of a condo and despite viewing more than 50 condos I can't find a place as nice as the 100k one, so I told my agent to check if the place was still available for 98k. Now the old hag says she wants 100k again.

This story teaches me there's nothing logical about the way Thai people thinks. I am confident this is a cultural feature that spans the entire spectrum of ages, origin and class. So don't expect the price for a shag to drop simply because there are a couple of thousand girls available for every customer in Nana plaza.

We found our dream condo at 3000/month.

It was perfect in every way so we immediately agreed to the price. We don’t live there permanent and after a couple of months the owner started complaining about the minimum quantity of water we used. Obviously she was taking a cut out of the water bill and didn’t like to miss out on a couple of baht every month.

Instead she wanted to give our place to a family of 4 who would live there permanent so she could pocket a bit more of the water trade.

So we had to move out but she offered us another condo at a similar price which wasn’t too bad either and we agreed to move there.

Again a couple of months passed and suddenly out of the blue she phones the Mrs and asks do you want your old condo back? Apparently the family she had moved in didn’t pay the rent so she offered us the same place for 2500/month which we happily accepted.

Next time we get kicked out we might opt for a 100k/month pad

[Forethat]

Really?!?! You found your dream condo and walked on a 3% difference? Sounds like you're the one that needs to learn about economics (or at least negotiation).

If I could only master the Thai way of negotiating...

The place was very nice, but in my opinion it was overpriced. I thought I gave her a real nice offer the first time (90k). For a while I thought I was taken for a ride by the agent (they usually get paid based on the rent), that no one could possibly be so stupid as to the place empty rather than getting a 90k/month check and that the landlord was never told that I offered 90k. I was wrong.

Have you ever considered the landlord wouldn't budge because she simply doesn't like you?

She never met me during the viewing or negotiations. But sure, that could have been a possibility. I say COULD have been, because I managed to get the contact details to the owner of another condo that was up for rent in the same building. This one was slightly smaller but just as pristine. Asking price was 95k. I offered 80k for that one and that's where we live now (easier to haggle when you cut out the middle man). Since we have lived here for a while I have now met the landlord of the first unit who comes around every now and then. She has now told me that she's prepared to let me have it for 75k if I cancel my agreement with my current landlord. I'd say she absolutely adores me, my wife and my daughter.

I have people propose jobs or business offers to me all the time and if I don't like the person or don't want the job I quote a very high rate and refuse to negotiate down. It's a polite way of saying "F*** off."

Oh, so that's how it works..? I would never have believed it.

[Lammbock]

Less Customer, More for ME!!!

[IanForbes]

I think that more people meet on the internet nowadays and skip around the meeting in the bar bit...

Agreed, at least for the smart ones. I've noticed lots of Thai gals conversing with foreign gents on the internet. Two young ladies came to my room in Chiang Mai to use my computer. They were on facebook, or some such dating site for about an hour checking out the connections.

This is a funny topic, or should I say TOPICS... hookers, accommodation prices, internet dating, international trade, oddities of how Thais do business... the whole shebang.

[Kwasaki]

Maybe a bit off topic me being in Ko Chang last year me and the Mrs. sitting at one of the bars chatting to two of the bar girls.

There must have been 20 bars all around or more and customers amounted to us and l noticed two other lone Gentlemen. Lucky for them maybe.

[Loz]

there's a reason Its called The oldest profession. it's going nowhere. as long as men are born with small heads there will be an industry for them to bury them in.

The profession itself may always exist but whether or not it flourishes in Thailand is what the topic of this thread seems to be about. I don't think anybody is suggesting a binary future where either there is or isn't prostitution in Thailand. What was being suggested is that perhaps people are taking their prostitution dollars to other destinations.

Yeah, I got that.

I was suggesting that there was no real decline. You see in times of uncertainty its not uncommon for people to look around for random indicators of change, no matter how thin the thread that links them.I humbley submit that When I was in Suk/vit on Monday night it was still busier than any friday night in Korat. Bars crowded and freelancers still lurking around the entrance to Nana. I like to purch on that corner bar and listen to the inevitable conversation between farang punter and "hostess".

Punter, " I just don't understand why people would want ladyboys" [really, f@@@@@K me, no imagination then... poor sod!)

Hostess, " YOU like ladyboy?"

Punter, "Me?! NOOO!! I like real lady! Oh, I can't explain...."

Hostess, "You want more drink?"

Punter, "er...yes" [punter lears at LBs until his hostess returns]

Hostess, "I see you, na! You look ladyboy! You want?"

Punter, "er... er.. I have to meet my friend,,, check bin.."

Me, "Next!"

It never gets old, and the bar is always nearly full. admitidely, I don't get to Bkk often.

[carmine]

Sex tourism is well down here due to a number of issues stretching from the Red shirt protests to weak foreign exchange rates. At the end of the day, when you do the conversion, its not the cheap pastime it used to be.

So at the end of the day, if your holiday is all about trawling around the lady bars stiring other peoples porridge isn't it more sensible to look for the cheaper options available in other countries?

[IanForbes]

Maybe a bit off topic me being in Ko Chang last year me and the Mrs. sitting at one of the bars chatting to two of the bar girls.

There must have been 20 bars all around or more and customers amounted to us and l noticed two other lone Gentlemen. Lucky for them maybe.

It is a tough racket for the women, and not all can handle it. The ones that do well are usually attractive and know how to hustle. Not all gals know how to do that and most are just average looking women. They barely make a living. The real beauties have more trade than they can accommodate and if they are smart they can retire in less than 10 years. A few get married if they are lucky.

I spend about a week a year in Pattaya visiting my golfing buddies. We wander around the pub scene viewing Pattaya's thousands of open bars, but we seldom stop for a drink... unless we want to play pool, and then we'll stop for one or two drinks and call it a night.. What I've noticed is that most bars have very few customers, or none at all, but a few bars seem to have far more customers than others. I believe it's probably a case of regulars who know the owner and frequent the same places all the time... sort of like a club. I live in Chiang Mai and go out every night, but I only visit a few bars where I've known the staff for many years. Only occasionally do I stop at anywhere else, and even then it's only because I see someone I know.

Over the 14 years I've been coming to Thailand I've seen lots of changes. At one time, Nana Plaza was the place to be and the little soi was packed with clients, but it lost out just as Patpong did before it. The quality of the acts went down, the owners raised their prices and the clientel moved on to Soi Cowboy, which was originally just a few shacks along the railway tracks. The sex tourists are not totally stupid. They go where they get the best value for their baht. Pattaya is a far better deal than any place in Bangkok... as far as the hooker bars are concerned. But, Pattaya is over saturated with bars and massage parlours, and I doubt if any one place is making much money. If you look closely at the working girls in the open bars you can see most are long past their best due date. The short time bars along Soi 6 are even worse and most women there are over 40 and long past their prime.

But, there is always something to suit every taste. The seedy bars attract the seedy clientel... and Pattaya certainly has a lot of seedy customers. It's part of the charm of the place. It's fun just to pull up a stool near some 7-11 and just watch the traffic go by.

[Beetlejuice]

and why are you complaining? , just means you get a better selection, and of course a better price

Especially on the 30th or 31st of every month, next day they need to pay for their room !

But not in Chiang Mai, here shortages make them increase the rates. 'Chiang Mai-logics'

Chiang Mai is a good example of what can happen when the bar and other adult entertainments become restricted and limited, especially the knock on affect this has on farang owned businesses, pubs and restaurants and so on.

Thailand was famous as the adult playground of the world, as Las Vegas is for gambling. The big Chiang Mai clamp down is what I believe to be one of the main reasons for it`s huge drop in tourism.

[samran]

and why are you complaining? , just means you get a better selection, and of course a better price

Especially on the 30th or 31st of every month, next day they need to pay for their room !

But not in Chiang Mai, here shortages make them increase the rates. 'Chiang Mai-logics'

Chiang Mai is a good example of what can happen when the bar and other adult entertainments become restricted and limited, especially the knock on affect this has on farang owned businesses, pubs and restaurants and so on.

Thailand was famous as the adult playground of the world, as Las Vegas is for gambling. The big Chiang Mai clamp down is what I believe to be one of the main reasons for it`s huge drop in tourism.

lord knows why anyone would want Thailand to be the knockshop of Asia.

That it has been that for a long time has diminished Thailand's reputation. That the industry is withering is a good thing, but it will still take another generation for the tarnish of that image to even begin to vanish.

[samran]

and why are you complaining? , just means you get a better selection, and of course a better price

Especially on the 30th or 31st of every month, next day they need to pay for their room !

But not in Chiang Mai, here shortages make them increase the rates. 'Chiang Mai-logics'

Chiang Mai is a good example of what can happen when the bar and other adult entertainments become restricted and limited, especially the knock on affect this has on farang owned businesses, pubs and restaurants and so on.

Thailand was famous as the adult playground of the world, as Las Vegas is for gambling. The big Chiang Mai clamp down is what I believe to be one of the main reasons for it`s huge drop in tourism.

lord knows why anyone would want Thailand to be the knockshop of Asia.

That it has been that for a long time has diminished Thailand's reputation. That the industry is withering is a good thing, but it will still take another generation for the tarnish of that image to even begin to vanish.