Never Wai A Waitress

[Thaddeus]

Anyone do the 'one handed wai' when we're holding something in the other hand.... ?

Yep, sure have, and that reminds me of a situation from more than a couple of years ago, I'm sure I have posted it before, but it was a very long time ago, so worth a repeat.

Early morning party in the village, wedding, monking, funeral can't remember which but not important. There is the usual segregation amongst the guest, more senior chaps together, the womenfolk together near the cooking area, and a table full of late teen early twenties young men with the usual six bottles on the table warming up and only one open.

I approached the table full of the lads and did something socially wrong, I knew it was wrong but I did it for a reason, I wai'd them.... in their desperation to return the gesture, one of the boys totally forgot that he had just picked up a glass full of beer and promptly emptied it over his face.

[tombkk]

I approached the table full of the lads and did something socially wrong, I knew it was wrong but I did it for a reason, I wai'd them.... in their desperation to return the gesture, one of the boys totally forgot that he had just picked up a glass full of beer and promptly emptied it over his face.

That gave me a laugh! In fact, somebody should have called canuckamuck's policeman...

[Buchholz]

Maybe the OP wasn't clear - old guy - 60ish, young waitress - 17 maybe

Guy walks into the place and wais her first.

This goes against ALL the rules - If you do it, you should stop unless you don't mind everyone having a laugh at your expense

90 posts and 9 hours after the OP, we get clarification on the OP.

Please don't mind if everyone is having a laugh at your expense.

Edited October 10, 2010 by Buchholz

[sarahsbloke]

Maybe the OP wasn't clear - old guy - 60ish, young waitress - 17 maybe

Guy walks into the place and wais her first.

This goes against ALL the rules - If you do it, you should stop unless you don't mind everyone having a laugh at your expense

You didn't notice the 1,000bht note held between his hands!

[dominique355]

Shouldn't we distinguish the different kind of "ways" we give?

Basically, the higher the hands, to more respect you show.

The highest respect goes to Buddha were the hands are high up to the forehead.

Shortly below is the way for HM The King and the Royal family.

Highly respected elder people and parents are next in level of the hands.

To people of similar respect (as you), you may way with finger tips at nose height.

To service personnel in restaurants etc, a way at the level of the chin is OK, let them way first at you.

Finally, even a child might get a way (at least from me) and my hands are down under the chin.

This is not some sort of old fashioned class thinking, it's simply following the Thai tradition and rules.

:jap:

[Kwasaki]

To all the farang Thai experts.

[edwardandtubs]

To people of similar respect (as you), you may way with finger tips at nose height.

:jap:

Are you talking about the tip of the nose or the bridge of the nose? I would say that any wai above the tip of the nose is to someone of higher status.

[canuckamuck]

To people of similar respect (as you), you may way with finger tips at nose height.

:jap:

Are you talking about the tip of the nose or the bridge of the nose? I would say that any wai above the tip of the nose is to someone of higher status.

Hope you guys don't lose any sleep over this

[carmine]

To people of similar respect (as you), you may way with finger tips at nose height.

:jap:

Are you talking about the tip of the nose or the bridge of the nose? I would say that any wai above the tip of the nose is to someone of higher status.

Hope you guys don't lose any sleep over this

Took the words out of my mouth.

[edwardandtubs]

To people of similar respect (as you), you may way with finger tips at nose height.

:jap:

Are you talking about the tip of the nose or the bridge of the nose? I would say that any wai above the tip of the nose is to someone of higher status.

Hope you guys don't lose any sleep over this

Being culturally aware is better than being culturally ignorant. The wai is an important part of Thai culture and if you don't recognise the different types of wai you'll never understand Thai people.

[edwardandtubs]

Here's a good summary from a website:

In general, the palms may be held so that the tips of the thumbs touch four different places: chest, chin, nose, and forehead. Each position indicates the social position of the waier relative to the waiee. Chest-wais are given to students, children, and compeers; chin-wais to adults; nose-wais to teachers and parents; and forehead-wais to images of the Buddha. The forehead-wai is also used to greet monks and the King of Thailand. If two strangers meet, but cannot gauge each other's age or relative social position, the chin-wai is the safest.

[canuckamuck]

Being culturally aware is better than being culturally ignorant. The wai is an important part of Thai culture and if you don't recognise the different types of wai you'll never understand Thai people.

Understanding Thai people goes a little beyond the wai, and even if could write a 200 page manual on wai techniques you might not be any closer to understanding, in fact I think that taking this stuff to seriously will also make you the odd man out.

I know that in certain situations the rules are out the window altogether and I can get away with a high five, a hug, a salute, a hand shake, or chest bump. But I wouldn't try it if I didn't feel accepted. Keep your wai book for officials, the elderly, and those you need favor with, other than that be yourself. Thais understand a genuine smile and polite behavior and they don't expect you to be like them.

[craigt3365]

Being culturally aware is better than being culturally ignorant. The wai is an important part of Thai culture and if you don't recognise the different types of wai you'll never understand Thai people.

Understanding Thai people goes a little beyond the wai, and even if could write a 200 page manual on wai techniques you might not be any closer to understanding, in fact I think that taking this stuff to seriously will also make you the odd man out.

I know that in certain situations the rules are out the window altogether and I can get away with a high five, a hug, a salute, a hand shake, or chest bump. But I wouldn't try it if I didn't feel accepted. Keep your wai book for officials, the elderly, and those you need favor with, other than that be yourself. Thais understand a genuine smile and polite behavior and they don't expect you to be like them.

For sure there is more to understanding a Thai person than just the wai. But I also think that our "western" ways...ie a chest bump...are tolerated because we don't understand their culture...and they know that. I know when I hug Thai's, it makes them step back the first time. Not something they are use to. But with me, they tolerate it. For sure a wai is expected to a "superior"...ie a monk, rich neighbor, local police general, grandfather of your wife, etc....

And for sure a genuine smile and polite behavior will help you immensely no matter where you are...

[StreetCowboy]

Maybe the OP wasn't clear - old guy - 60ish, young waitress - 17 maybe

Guy walks into the place and wais her first.

This goes against ALL the rules - If you do it, you should stop unless you don't mind everyone having a laugh at your expense

I'm quite happy to give someone a laugh; the only trouble is that sometimes they embarass themselves and display their ill-manners by letting it out in public.

Luckily, I have often a smile to spare as well.

Quite often, I trade smiles with complete strangers - I often get more pleasure from someone else's smile than my own

SC

[Mosha]

I try to get the wai in 1st to the Nai Amphur, the Nai Yok Orbortor, the Kamnan. Don't bother with the Puy Yais. hel_l if the Nai Amphur wai's 1st, this working class lad from Dewsbury is head and shoulders above the Puy Yais

Edited October 10, 2010 by Mosha

[bonobo]

I was at the gym today doing my bench press, and a Thai next to me was getting ready to do his decline bench (where the bench is lower at the head than at the legs.)  In order to do a decline, you have to scrunch up and twist your neck as you lay down so you don't hit your head on the bar.

This guy is wearing wrist straps, which are essentially long straps which attach to the wrist with another foot or so hanging loose.  When you are about to lift, you wrap this other end to the bar several times, creating both padding for your hands as well as securing your hands to the bar.  You end up sort of manacled to the bar.

Just as he is about to lift, another guy comes out, sees him, and gives him a very deferential wai, hands held high.  This guy jumps up to wai, hitting his head on the bar, and as his hands are pretty much fastened to the bar, his hands can't even come together and he falls back to the bench.  The other guy didn't even blink but wai'd once more for good measure.

I cracked up laughing, and I couldn't help but to think of this thread.  

[NanLaew]

^ Too funny. My favourite was catching the Amphur out Salaya way at his favourite fish noodle shop for lunch. Our country manager wai'd him just as he was forking a heap of fishballs and noodles into his mouth and it was funny to see his slight panic as he dropped the chopsticks, splashing the soup all over the table and trying to stand up and return the wai, nodding and trying to smile with a mouth full.

Lot's of opinions from our culturally aware foreign contingent; bless you for taking the time to enlighten the rest of us who don't bother.

Two examples seen today at the airport; foreign tourist returns the wai to the salesgirl at the newsstand after the sale is completed. His wai looked a but awkward and probably not required but she didn't mind. No harm done.

On the plane just after we landed; elderly foreign gent, well dressed with his Thai wife next to him and I just know his house in the moobahn in Nakhon Nowhere is the biggest and has blue roof tiles as well. Anyway, he turns and wai's the monks that were seated two rows behind him before turning and getting off the plane. Very respectful and in touch with the culture.

[makescents]

Inferior, lower order?

Ugh...Thailand's class system.

Yes.

1. Check out the Power Distance Index (PDI) of Thailand at http://www.geert-hofstede.com/

2. Compare it to your home country.

3. Accept that national cultures are different.

It's not culture. It's oppression.

[StreetCowboy]

Inferior, lower order?

Ugh...Thailand's class system.

Yes.

1. Check out the Power Distance Index (PDI) of Thailand at http://www.geert-hofstede.com/

2. Compare it to your home country.

3. Accept that national cultures are different.

It's not culture. It's oppression.

It's teamwork.

We all need to know where we fit in the team.

If you're not happy, go somewhere where they form the teams differently, but you can't play American Football with a 4 - 4 - 2 formation

SC

[SamboVilla]

I've only been here for nine months but I don't see the need to think too long and hard about whether to or not to wai sombody.

If somebody wais you, do it back (except for service staff because for want of a better work you'll look like a <deleted>)

I always wai older people who I know, or their friends/family.

I wai monks, obviously.

Thats about it.

As to people who say "I'm not Thai so I don't do it" I can imagine you are the sort of people who could be here for 5 years and still not speak a word of Thai. I in my humble opinion you should go home.

[makescents]

It's teamwork.

We all need to know where we fit in the team.

If you're not happy, go somewhere where they form the teams differently, but you can't play American Football with a 4 - 4 - 2 formation

SC

I don't think your analogy works.

I make the effort to respect Thailand's culture. I don't touch Thai's heads and I'm careful with my feet. I dress respectfully and I respect beliefs even I find them absurd.

I won't however participate in a system which splits people into a superior/inferior relationship and using culture as an excuse for backwards thinking does not fly with me

[james24]

I was in a Short time bar in Soi 6 and some old geezer started to wai all the girls, nobody was offended, but it did look a little strange.

Ive noticed that when someone wai's the bar girls they never wai back, especially if there is a group of them...

One did wai me once but it was a very low wai (disrespecting I guess, let me call the homies), so from then on it felt a bit awkward to do it. Well actually I dont go to those bars anymore ;-)

[tombkk]

It's teamwork.

We all need to know where we fit in the team.

If you're not happy, go somewhere where they form the teams differently, but you can't play American Football with a 4 - 4 - 2 formation

SC

I don't think your analogy works.

I make the effort to respect Thailand's culture. I don't touch Thai's heads and I'm careful with my feet. I dress respectfully and I respect beliefs even I find them absurd.

I won't however participate in a system which splits people into a superior/inferior relationship and using culture as an excuse for backwards thinking does not fly with me

Well, the analogy works. But if you choose to reject parts of Thai culture, you will not be respected fully, either.

It's a mirror. It's really up to you how much respect you give, and therefore can expect in return.

One thing is certain: The farangs who reject part of the culture will not change the culture. They will just stay outside. Some are content with that.

[StreetCowboy]

It's teamwork.

We all need to know where we fit in the team.

If you're not happy, go somewhere where they form the teams differently, but you can't play American Football with a 4 - 4 - 2 formation

SC

I don't think your analogy works.

I make the effort to respect Thailand's culture. I don't touch Thai's heads and I'm careful with my feet. I dress respectfully and I respect beliefs even I find them absurd.

I won't however participate in a system which splits people into a superior/inferior relationship and using culture as an excuse for backwards thinking does not fly with me

The point is that societies work like a team,

We all need to know our place, and how to behave in that place, and if we play out of position, the whole team suffers.

Now, I agree that playing with a line and a sweeper behind works better, but here, that's not the way that its done. And if I follow my scheme, no-one will understand what I am doing or where I stand.

Whereas, if I get into the 4 - 4 -2 - and, obviously, as a Hi-So Engineer (oh, that makes me laugh!) I'll take a place in the Centre-Forward position ; but I need to respect the client - or we all lose - and I need to make decisions for the team (taking their - wisdom - without it looking like advice or guidance...) but these people have grown up in their hierarchy. Its only if we fit in that we can hope to change it incrementally to what we think is a winning formation.

Or perhaps you are the next Bertie VogtsSven Gorasn-Erikson, and you can transform us in one fell swoop into world champions?

SC

EDIT: Changed for more universal understanding, hopefully without losing the bitter and twisted sarcasm

humerous interlude

- does anyone recall the Tartan Special advert in which the Tartan Pimpernell rescues the Bon Accord Athletic goal keeper, who says "Ally Macleod's still in there..."

"I'll pretend I never heard that!"

"don't cry for me....

[onnut]

I walked into a pub yesterday, and all the staff gave me a wai and I did the same back. Felt a little stupid for doing it but I know all the staff coz they used to work for me and I would feel un-polite had I not.

The other customers must of thought I was a <deleted>!!!

How very true, who cares as the original op mentiones? But if you live here in Thailand for a long time and don't want to look like a <deleted> of a tourist', like the original OP seems to imply. Maybe you you will assimilate into the culture and population. It depends if you respond to a wai, then wai back? How you wai is important. As onnut states ''it feels unpolite. I assume he has been here for a few years? Stay here for a bit longer and the op might realise the courtesy of a reply wai',just like if you hold your hand out in the west and it is not shaken. Who looks the <deleted> then?

But if the OP is refeering to a westerner initiating a wai, then they are mis-informed, of the cultural heirachy.'

Yes you are right, I've been here 8 years. The staff who wai me worked for me for about 6 years. I think it's nice they show me respect even though I have not worked there for over a year now. I would feel a bigger <deleted> had I not given them a wai in return.

It was funny though because there were about 10 staff who gave me a wai in the space of 2 minutes and I could feel people looking at me. I don't care what they think though as I would of felt very rude not giving a wai back.

I tend not to wai bar girls though, they get a nod and smile. I don't feel that is rude.

Has anyone ever put his hand out to shake another persons hand and they don't want to shake??? Very embarrassing! I should imagine that's how it feels for the Thais when we do not return a wai. It doesn't hurt nor cost anything to do so.

[britmaveric]

Ive noticed that when someone wai's the bar girls they never wai back, especially if there is a group of them...

Hmmmmm if in for a few sings(s) at a beer bar - ladies always wai me and course I return the wai back. Normally only wai to elders if anything or respond to a wai.

[saraburioz]

I wai monks, obviously

Actually it's not that obvious - many monks I do wai but not them all.

[makescents]

Well, the analogy works. But if you choose to reject parts of Thai culture, you will not be respected fully, either.

It's a mirror. It's really up to you how much respect you give, and therefore can expect in return.

I guess I'm willing to sacrifice "respect" for my moral integrity.

You don't wai your maid because she's an employee despite her being older than you.

You don't return a wai from a begger after he displays his gratitude from receiving money from you.

I hold my tongue for other examples as it violates the forum rules.

There's no respect here, it's enforcing hierarchy in everyday life so you know your place. A wai isn't neutral like a handshake, if it was I would have no problem with it.

One thing is certain: The farangs who reject part of the culture will not change the culture. They will just stay outside. Some are content with that.

I find it hard to believe that a foreigner would have any influence on these nationalistic people.

[IanForbes]

Is it okay to weigh a waitress?

[WinnieTheKhwai]

Maybe the OP wasn't clear - old guy - 60ish, young waitress - 17 maybe

Guy walks into the place and wais her first.

This goes against ALL the rules - If you do it, you should stop unless you don't mind everyone having a laugh at your expense

Much better than some of the rude behaviour commonly on display from many 'expert farongs'.

Up yours.

Edited October 10, 2010 by WinnieTheKhwai