"harry" In Thaiscript

[Insight]

I was told by one Thai lady it was:

ฮารี

... which to me makes sense. However, my g/f thinks it should be:

แฮรี่

Which sounds more like "Herry", but apparently "Harry Potter" is spelt somewhat similar.

Anybody on here got any ideas? Thanks in advance if you have.

Edited July 26, 2005 by Insight

[mike_l]

แฮร์รี่ would be the standard way of spelling it I think.

//Made it bigger - RDN

Edited July 26, 2005 by RDN

[meadish_sweetball]

แฮร์รี่ would be the standard way of spelling it I think.

//Made it bigger - RDN

Yep, this is the spelling used on the Harry Potter novels, and so is very unlikely to be anything but the standard.

[Insight]

Thanks lads, will let my mate know.

[the scouser]

แฮร์รี่ would be the standard way of spelling it I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't dispute what you've written, but that would, to my ears, sound like "hairy".

Scouse.

[loong]

Sorry - no idea how to do Thai script on the computer

แฮร์รี่ (copied and pasted) in my opinion is nearly right except there should be the vowel shortener symbol over the "H"

Previous poster is right, without vowel shortener , spells "Hairy"

My opinion, maybe not right

[Insight]

Blatent cut & paste job from here looks like:

แฮร์รี่

[loong]

Blatent cut & paste job from here looks like:

I copied and pasted from previous post

Actually just looked again

And the 1st R should also have the silent symbol above it or be missed out altogether

แฮรี่ with the vowel shortener symbol over the H same as in เด็ก (Dek)

Edited July 26, 2005 by loong

[loong]

แฮร์รี่ would of course spell

Hairn-ry

[Richard W]

แฮร์รี่ would of course spell

Hairn-ry

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

a) I trust you mean แฮรรี่ would.

'Harry' is, of course, a pet form of Henry!

แฮรี่  with the vowel shortener symbol over the H same as in เด็ก (Dek)

No. There is a difference, though sometimes they can sound very similar.

A critical point about the transliteration is that แฮะรี่ would be like "Ha'-ri", with a glo'al stop in the middle.

[loong]

I can't type it so have written and attached (excuse my writing)

In my opinion this is closest to the English pronunciation of Harry

or maybe

Which includes the "R" sound, but is silent

Re Richard W's post

I trust you mean แฮรรี่ would.

On closer inspection I note that the silent symbol may well already be over the 1st "R", just so hard to see on my screen. So sorry about that.

A critical point about the transliteration is that แฮะรี่ would be like "Ha'-ri", with a glo'al stop in the middle.

As you can see, I have suggested a different vowel shortener (over the consonant, not after it), But I'm not totally sure if it is pronounced differently.

Re the Glottal stop, aren't all syllables supposed to be separated?

Would แฮร์รี่, if pronounced properly be "hair ' ree" ?

The thai word for 'what', 'arai,' is usually spoken with the 2 syllables flowing into each other, but the correct way is 'a ' rai' with the 2 syllables separated.

I'm not trying to say you are wrong about anything, just want to improve on my knowledge.

The truth is that many farang names cannot be written accurately in Thai and so can only get as close as possible. My name, because it ends in 'th' cannot be written in Thai accurately. 'Paul' will always end up as 'Porn' unfortunately for any Pauls out there.

Probably, the best thing is to show the various suggestions to a native speaker and see how they pronounce them and pick the closest to 'Harry'. As I am in UK at the moment, I am unable to do this.

[meadish_sweetball]

I can't type it so have written and attached (excuse my writing)

In my opinion this is closest to the English pronunciation of Harry

or maybe

Which includes the "R" sound, but is silent

Re Richard W's post

I trust you mean แฮรรี่ would.

On closer inspection I note that the silent symbol may well already be over the 1st "R", just so hard to see on my screen. So sorry about that.

A critical point about the transliteration is that แฮะรี่ would be like "Ha'-ri", with a glo'al stop in the middle.

As you can see, I have suggested a different vowel shortener (over the consonant, not after it), But I'm not totally sure if it is pronounced differently.

Re the Glottal stop, aren't all syllables supposed to be separated?

Would แฮร์รี่, if pronounced properly be "hair ' ree" ?

The thai word for 'what', 'arai,' is usually spoken with the 2 syllables flowing into each other, but the correct way is 'a ' rai' with the 2 syllables separated.

I'm not trying to say you are wrong about anything, just want to improve on my knowledge.

The truth is that many farang names cannot be written accurately in Thai and so can only get as close as possible. My name, because it ends in 'th' cannot be written in Thai accurately. 'Paul' will always end up as 'Porn' unfortunately for any Pauls out there.

Probably, the best thing is to show the various suggestions to a native speaker and see how they pronounce them and pick the closest to 'Harry'. As I am in UK at the moment, I am unable to do this.

You could of course choose to spell your name in an unorthodox way, but it would be a constant source of annoyance to yourself, as you would always have to explain that 'It is not spelt like Harry Potter, but should be pronounced the same, only not the way that Thais pronounce it, but rather like the English pronounce it.'

My advice is that to make it simple, just accept that there is a standard spelling for "Harry" already: แฮร์รี่, and go with this, even though the vowel sound may end up a little too long.

Using the 'maai thai khuu' vowel shortener to shorten the แ vowel is not accepted practice and will look wrong to any Thai reading it.

[richard10365]

I guess it would also depend on who is saying the name "Harry"

If i was to say "Ha Ree", I could spell it แหรี or แฮรี.

A southern from the Southeast USA might say Heh Ree and spell it เห็รี or เฮ็รี.

Someone else might say Hah Ree and spell it หารี ฮาร๊.

As far as the tone rules are concerned, since its a farang name, I don't think it matters which letter you use. ห or this ฮ, will give you the same result when saying a farang name......but thats only my opinion.

My girlfriend says I'm should only use ฮ. But if you used all 5 tones of the Thai language to say "Harry", in the end, the name is still "Harry".

[loong]

Meadish Sweetball

Using the 'maai thai khuu' vowel shortener to shorten the แ vowel is not accepted practice and will look wrong to any Thai reading it.

I agree that it is not common, but don't understand why it would look wrong to any Thai reading it. It does, after all, exist in the Thai language.

http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/1629.html

http://www.thai2english.com/explain/1629.html

แข็ง meaning Hard

[meadish_sweetball]

Meadish Sweetball

Using the 'maai thai khuu' vowel shortener to shorten the แ vowel is not accepted practice and will look wrong to any Thai reading it.

I agree that it is not common, but don't understand why it would look wrong to any Thai reading it. It does, after all, exist in the Thai language.

http://www.thai2english.com/dictionary/1629.html

http://www.thai2english.com/explain/1629.html

แข็ง meaning Hard

My apologies Loong, I was muddled about what I meant there - you are right that it is fine to use the 'maai thai khuu' vowel shortener with แ - when the syllable has a final consonant (or a glottal stop) - this is illustrated if you look at the dashes to the right of the vowel sign in the second reference you quoted แ-็- - they indicate obligatory positions for the initial and final consonant (How to pronounce the Thai word 'khaeng'). In your suggested spelling of Harry there is no final consonant symbol in the first syllable of the word.

There are norms for how to transliterate common English names into Thai. I am no expert at these rules and their practice, but I know they exist - newspaper journalists and most professional writers follow them. If you know any educated Thais, listen to what they have to say about this - they have read plenty of Thai and are used to certain spellings of common Western names. Also have a look at this list (where 'Harry' is actually not spelt as in Harry Potter! - Thai transcriptions of common English names).

[Richard W]

Re the Glottal stop, aren't all syllables supposed to be separated?

Would แฮร์รี่, if pronounced properly be "hair ' ree" ?

The thai word for 'what', 'arai,' is usually spoken with the 2 syllables flowing into each other, but the correct way is 'a ' rai' with the 2 syllables separated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. The glottal stop at the end of a syllable shortens the preceding vowel. The glottal stop at the end of an unstressed syllable is normally dropped, which is why you don't hear it in the word for 'what'.

My apologies Loong, I was muddled about what I meant there - you are right that it is fine to use the 'maai thai khuu' vowel shortener with แ - when the syllable has a final consonant (or a glottal stop) - this is illustrated if you look at the dashes to the right of the vowel sign in the second reference you quoted  แ-็- - they indicate obligatory positions for the initial and final consonant (How to pronounce the Thai word 'khaeng'). In your suggested spelling of Harry there is no final consonant symbol in the first syllable of the word.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't use maitaikhu with a final glottal stop - either the final glottal stop is written with sara a (ะ) or there is a special symbol for the short vowel. (I suspect maitaikhu, mai hanakat and sara a were originally the same symbol!)

[meadish_sweetball]

Re the Glottal stop, aren't all syllables supposed to be separated?

Would แฮร์รี่, if pronounced properly be "hair ' ree" ?

The thai word for 'what', 'arai,' is usually spoken with the 2 syllables flowing into each other, but the correct way is 'a ' rai' with the 2 syllables separated.

No. The glottal stop at the end of a syllable shortens the preceding vowel. The glottal stop at the end of an unstressed syllable is normally dropped, which is why you don't hear it in the word for 'what'.

My apologies Loong, I was muddled about what I meant there - you are right that it is fine to use the 'maai thai khuu' vowel shortener with แ - when the syllable has a final consonant (or a glottal stop) - this is illustrated if you look at the dashes to the right of the vowel sign in the second reference you quoted  แ-็- - they indicate obligatory positions for the initial and final consonant (How to pronounce the Thai word 'khaeng'). In your suggested spelling of Harry there is no final consonant symbol in the first syllable of the word.

You don't use maitaikhu with a final glottal stop - either the final glottal stop is written with sara a (ะ) or there is a special symbol for the short vowel. (I suspect maitaikhu, mai hanakat and sara a were originally the same symbol!)

Correct. My mistake.

[yoot]

' Harry ' can be transliterated to both ฮาร์รี่ and แฮร์รี่ follow by the rules of RID.

[yoot]

Re the Glottal stop, aren't all syllables supposed to be separated?

Would แฮร์รี่, if pronounced properly be "hair ' ree" ?

The thai word for 'what', 'arai,' is usually spoken with the 2 syllables flowing into each other, but the correct way is 'a ' rai' with the 2 syllables separated.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. The glottal stop at the end of a syllable shortens the preceding vowel. The glottal stop at the end of an unstressed syllable is normally dropped, which is why you don't hear it in the word for 'what'.

My apologies Loong, I was muddled about what I meant there - you are right that it is fine to use the 'maai thai khuu' vowel shortener with แ - when the syllable has a final consonant (or a glottal stop) - this is illustrated if you look at the dashes to the right of the vowel sign in the second reference you quoted  แ-็- - they indicate obligatory positions for the initial and final consonant (How to pronounce the Thai word 'khaeng'). In your suggested spelling of Harry there is no final consonant symbol in the first syllable of the word.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You don't use maitaikhu with a final glottal stop - either the final glottal stop is written with sara a (ะ) or there is a special symbol for the short vowel. (I suspect maitaikhu, mai hanakat and sara a were originally the same symbol!)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm quite confused with this. I didn't see anything wrong with loong's post and meadish's post.

For the word 'what' - อะ-ไร the correct pronunciation is 2 syllables seperated. You can't drop the first syllable.

The same as the word ' แฮร์รี่ ' if pronounced properly follow by Thai reading it would be "hair ' ree"

For the word ' แฮ็ร์รี่ ' you can't put ' mai tai khuu ' on ฮas the reason in the explanation of meadish.

[loong]

I am happy to be able to learn a bit more, especially regarding the rules. Thanks for the clear explanation Meadish.

However, re Richard W's post

No. The glottal stop at the end of a syllable shortens the preceding vowel. The glottal stop at the end of an unstressed syllable is normally dropped, which is why you don't hear it in the word for 'what'.

I feel I must dispute this. I am certain that the correct pronunciation for 'what' is

'a - rai' spoken as 2 completely separate syllables. I stress that I am referring to correct, not general usage.

Anyway, go ahead and prove me wrong as it is more important for me to know than to be shown that I don't know.

[lopburi3]

' Harry ' can be transliterated to both ฮาร์รี่ and แฮร์รี่ follow by the rules of RID.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

To add one more my official MFA translation of Harry produced 10 years ago was ฮาร์รี่ย์ .

[meadish_sweetball]

I am happy to be able to learn a bit more, especially regarding the rules. Thanks for the clear explanation Meadish.

However, re Richard W's post

No. The glottal stop at the end of a syllable shortens the preceding vowel. The glottal stop at the end of an unstressed syllable is normally dropped, which is why you don't hear it in the word for 'what'.

I feel I must dispute this. I am certain that the correct pronunciation for 'what' is

'a - rai' spoken as 2 completely separate syllables. I stress that I am referring to correct, not general usage.

Anyway, go ahead and prove me wrong as it is more important for me to know than to be shown that I don't know.

Loong, you're right about the formal pronunciation. Richard was addressing what often happens in practice.