National Parks Ongoing Saga

[stander]

So many of the posters indicate that "it is not the money but the principal". It would be interesting to see what their residence status actually is and if their principals include having the correct type of visa or are they perpetual tourists, Do they have medical cover? Or would they be quite happy to use the government hospitals.

How much to they actually contribute?

It seems to me that their principals are fairly flexible!!!

[sarahsbloke]

So many of the posters indicate that "it is not the money but the principal". It would be interesting to see what their residence status actually is and if their principals include having the correct type of visa or are they perpetual tourists, Do they have medical cover? Or would they be quite happy to use the government hospitals.

How much to they actually contribute?

It seems to me that their principals are fairly flexible!!!

It's the money for me, I am poor!

Residence status, 1 year extension by reason of marriage to Thai national

Medical cover none, I would use government hospital, I'm not a snob.

What do I contribute

Enough money for my wife to attend high-school.

Enough money for my 12yo step-daughter to go to high-school instead of working in the field on the family tobacco farm.

(and the promise of enough money for daughter to attend CM uni)

Is that enough of a contribution for you?

[stander]

Sarahsbloke, I admire your honesty

[gpdjohn]

.

Anyway

Has anyone noticed that when you get away from tourist areas, nobody pays any entrance fee to National parks.

They are free to enter..

Not true.

I live on the "other" side of Khao Yai NP.. Prachinburi.( Actually a small village less than 6k from the park entrance) Not very touristy at all. My uncle, also an evil American, who has lived here for 30+ does as well. We are charged 400 baht everytime we show up at the gate..that's why we do not show up anymore. ( and most of the time the person working the gate is from our village, knows us and still demands 400B )

It might be alright with you if you only are here a few months outta of the year "visiting", but when you live here full time, it's horseshit.

[thomo]

This behaviour certainly does not occur in Australia, as it is against the law.

Kakadu National Park Entry Fee

The $25 fee (which is inclusive of GST) will apply to all interstate and international visitors aged 16 years and over. All Northern Territory residents and children under 16 are exempt.

A foreigner will have to pay $25, a local will pay nothing.

My modifications in blue (above). Sorry but I had to add the bit about people under 16.

Yes, so a Thai over the age of 16 wisiting Kakadu will have to pay $25, the equivalent of 740thb, while the local pays nothing.

I thought this was illegal in Australia, and certainly doesnt happen?

Edited October 14, 2010 by thomo

[robblok]

Medical coverage: Yes

Type of visa 1 year marriage to Thai

Seems like the right type of thing and yes its mainly principle.

[robblok]

.

Anyway

Has anyone noticed that when you get away from tourist areas, nobody pays any entrance fee to National parks.

They are free to enter..

Not true.

I live on the "other" side of Khao Yai NP.. Prachinburi.( Actually a small village less than 6k from the park entrance) Not very touristy at all. My uncle, also an evil American, who has lived here for 30+ does as well. We are charged 400 baht everytime we show up at the gate..that's why we do not show up anymore. ( and most of the time the person working the gate is from our village, knows us and still demands 400B )

It might be alright with you if you only are here a few months outta of the year "visiting", but when you live here full time, it's horseshit.

Comes down to the residency non residency thing. If they really differentiated between residents and tourists I could live with it.

[Atmos]

doesn't bother me, Pangsida near us is 200/40, I think 200 is a bargain, always complete their little 'visitor survey', I am after all, essentially a visitor to this country.

We visit KL a few times a year, similar structures there for tourists, eg (adult prices)

KL Butterfly Park: Malaysian 8r, non-Malaysian 18r, plus 1r if using a camera (haven't found that one in Thailand yet!)

KL Aquarium: Malaysian 35r, non-Malaysian 45r (for 'adults' 13 and over)

KL Bird Park: Malaysian 20r, non-Malaysian 45r (for 'adults' 13 and over)

KL Tower: Malaysian 8r, non-Malaysian 20r (for 'adults' 13 and over)

and so on . . . .

[gpdjohn]

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>. <BR><BR>Anyway<BR>Has anyone noticed that when you get away from tourist areas, nobody pays any entrance fee to National parks.<BR>They are free to enter..<BR><BR><BR>

<BR><BR>Not true.<BR>I live on the "other" side of Khao Yai NP.. Prachinburi.( Actually a small village less than 6k from the park entrance) Not very touristy at all. My uncle, also an evil American, who has lived here for 30+ does as well. We are charged 400 baht everytime we show up at the gate..that's why we do not show up anymore. ( and most of the time the person working the gate is from our village, knows us and still demands 400B )<BR><BR>It might be alright with you if you only are here a few months outta of the year "visiting", but when you live here full time, it's horseshit.<BR>

<BR>Comes down to the residency non residency thing. If they really differentiated between residents and tourists I could live with it.<BR>

<BR><BR>Me too. <BR>

[stander]

.

Anyway

Has anyone noticed that when you get away from tourist areas, nobody pays any entrance fee to National parks.

They are free to enter..

Not true.

I live on the "other" side of Khao Yai NP.. Prachinburi.( Actually a small village less than 6k from the park entrance) Not very touristy at all. My uncle, also an evil American, who has lived here for 30+ does as well. We are charged 400 baht everytime we show up at the gate..that's why we do not show up anymore. ( and most of the time the person working the gate is from our village, knows us and still demands 400B )

It might be alright with you if you only are here a few months outta of the year "visiting", but when you live here full time, it's horseshit.

Comes down to the residency non residency thing. If they really differentiated between residents and tourists I could live with it.

Permanent residency (PR) is one thing, but a one year marriage visa without a work permit is just basically an extended tourist visa.

[robblok]

Comparing the two is a bit strange.. they are totally different. I need to keep 400k in the bank for this one. Also i had a company paying loads of Thai tax. I closed it because i could not get a work permit without cheating. (employing 5 Thais on paper who could not do a thing for real because of the nature of the business).

PR is real hard to get and i would love to do it all legal but it can't be done without breaking the rules one way or the other in my situation. The Thais still have no good legislation for internet businesses. I consider myself a resident, not a tourist.

[Jimi007]

.

Anyway

Has anyone noticed that when you get away from tourist areas, nobody pays any entrance fee to National parks.

They are free to enter..

Not true.

I live on the "other" side of Khao Yai NP.. Prachinburi.( Actually a small village less than 6k from the park entrance) Not very touristy at all. My uncle, also an evil American, who has lived here for 30+ does as well. We are charged 400 baht everytime we show up at the gate..that's why we do not show up anymore. ( and most of the time the person working the gate is from our village, knows us and still demands 400B )

It might be alright with you if you only are here a few months outta of the year "visiting", but when you live here full time, it's horseshit.

Comes down to the residency non residency thing. If they really differentiated between residents and tourists I could live with it.

Permanent residency (PR) is one thing, but a one year marriage visa without a work permit is just basically an extended tourist visa.

That's a bit judgmental on your part, in my opinion. I have lived here 5 years on a retirement visa. I have leased the same house for almost as long as that. I have a car and two motorbikes in my name. The Truevisions and cable and internet bills are in my name. But I guess after all that long I am still a " extended tourist?"

[mca]

Permanent residency (PR) is one thing, but a one year marriage visa without a work permit is just basically an extended tourist visa.

It'd be nice to see your reasoning behind this statement.

[hansfromwales]

So many of the posters indicate that "it is not the money but the principal". It would be interesting to see what their residence status actually is and if their principals include having the correct type of visa or are they perpetual tourists, Do they have medical cover? Or would they be quite happy to use the government hospitals.

How much to they actually contribute?

It seems to me that their principals are fairly flexible!!!

It's the money for me, I am poor!

Residence status, 1 year extension by reason of marriage to Thai national

Medical cover none, I would use government hospital, I'm not a snob.

What do I contribute

Enough money for my wife to attend high-school.

Enough money for my 12yo step-daughter to go to high-school instead of working in the field on the family tobacco farm.

(and the promise of enough money for daughter to attend CM uni)

Is that enough of a contribution for you?

yeah. how old is the wife?

[stander]

Permanent residency (PR) is one thing, but a one year marriage visa without a work permit is just basically an extended tourist visa.

That's a bit judgmental on your part, in my opinion. I have lived here 5 years on a retirement visa. I have leased the same house for almost as long as that. I have a car and two motorbikes in my name. The Truevisions and cable and internet bills are in my name. But I guess after all that long I am still a " extended tourist?"

I have lived here 24 years, I work in the Oil & Gas business travel overseas extensively, so no need for me to get PR, so yes I consider myself "an extended tourist"

[tartempion]

.

Anyway

Has anyone noticed that when you get away from tourist areas, nobody pays any entrance fee to National parks.

They are free to enter..

Not true.

I live on the "other" side of Khao Yai NP.. Prachinburi.( Actually a small village less than 6k from the park entrance) Not very touristy at all. My uncle, also an evil American, who has lived here for 30+ does as well. We are charged 400 baht everytime we show up at the gate..that's why we do not show up anymore. ( and most of the time the person working the gate is from our village, knows us and still demands 400B )

It might be alright with you if you only are here a few months outta of the year "visiting", but when you live here full time, it's horseshit.

Last month I drove from Kho Chang to Udon and decided to drive through Khao Yai, I showed my Thai drivers license at the gate and paid Thai price

[RHCP]

1] People, who are 'obviously' foreigners, are asked to pay greatly inflated prices compared to Thai nationals.

2] Passport checks do not seem to be carried out in order to ascertain who is a foreigner & who is not. If one doesn't look like a foreigner, they may not be subject to extra charges.

3] Since many of us 'obvious foreigners' are admitted to government run facilities for the same price as a Thai national (Work Permit, Driving License), it would appear that foreigners are not the target.

4] Where does this extra 'foreigner' money go?

Solution:

Stop this discrimination. Corruption becomes a lot more difficult when the playing field is level.

This behaviour certainly does not occur in Australia, as it is against the law.

This regularly discussed subject always guarantees a few postings.

Ignoring the rights or wrongs of dual pricing and whether or not it should apply to those who are non-Thai but pay taxes here, if this policy was applied consistently then I wouldn’t have so much of a grievance on the unfairness of it all but the fact is on many occasions the Thai official will just determine based on one’s skin colour only so many Asians that look possibly Thai will just pay the Thai rate. If this was administered properly then everyone including Thai should be required to show ID before being charged whatever rate is specified but in practice this generally does not occur.

[caf]

I guess the few of us who don't mind paying are out voted. In that case I think Thailand should raise the prices of taxi fares equal to what you pay in North America or the UK. And, jack up the cost of food by at least 5 times, and accommodation by the same amount. Then, they could lower the prices to the National parks to the same as Thais pay. Of course, the Thais would also have to have their wages increased to compensate for their living costs, and expats wouldn't be able to afford maids and servents. That should satisfy all the expats complaining about 2 tier pricing .

Ian,

While I always appreciate your very level headed viewpoint, in this case I must respectfully disagree with everything you've said. I know you are retired, but many of us here work. We pay taxes into the system. More taxes than the Thais if truth be told. And we aren't flush with cash from a cushy Western retirement package or accumulated years of savings from overinflated Western salaries. We are trying our best to raise a Thai family in the Thai economic environment, and all we ask is that we be given the opportunity to take our families to a national park without being extorted or blackmailed for the price of admission.

We don't have maids or drivers. We work...hard. Long, exhausting hours. The system doesn't need to be changed to that of the West, as you mistakenly and unfairly quip. It is acceptable the way it is, but those of us who are already struggling to raise a family do not need additional unfair charges thrust at us when we should be receiving just the opposite. For people like yourself, who are happy to pay more, I suggest a donation box is in order.

For those of us who can find better uses for that 200 baht than giving even more to an already corrupt government, we should be allowed to use it in our own way to help our own family. Foreigners raising families over here suffer enough indignities already. It is not too much to ask that the government show an equitable policy to those of us who are paying their salaries and giving them the opportunity to fill their personal coffers with the spoils of corrupt practices.

Normally, you are the voice of reason on this site. Unfortunately, on this particular problem, your opinion is simply flawed. My family needs that 200 baht more than a corrupt government minister. You may feel differently, but then you would be wrong.

Point well made. I don't think people realise that by tolerating dual pricing they are helping some Thai people justify their unethical actions. For any foreigner trying to do work or do business here legally on an even playing field it's very frustrating to be charged more for services and products because you have a different passport. It shouldn't be accepted at any level by any foreigner that calls Thailand home. It's irresponsible.

A thoughtful response and I agree. But Ian is retired and not a full time Thai resident so he looks at issues from a personal point of view. We can influence dual pricing by commenting and ultimately voting with our feet. No problem in our doing that. As a frequent and long term visitor he has no reason to think the same way we permanent residents do. He also dislikes dual pricing based on race - so he clearly has a view - but then immediately turns on the mae bhen rai. That's fair enough as he does not live here and he can do with his money what he likes of course. It is not that he does not easily see other people's points of view. Just he is not inclined to follow them through. He disagrees with dual pricing in some circumstances but he is not bothered by it.

[Spaniel]

My (Thai) wife and I went up to Khao Yai National Park on Monday and I showed them my Thai drivers liscense and was admitted for the Thai price.

[merijn]

I live here for 21 years on basis of marriage/ business and my passport mentions Thailand as residence.

Have a business for 15 years with all the tax involved.

So in my opinion I’m not a tourist.

And the dual pricing is about principle for me.

I know enough Thai people who make much more money then me and I’m not really poor.