National Parks Ongoing Saga

[IanForbes]

I think that the main reason so many farang get so bent out of shape is because they have their "thainess" rejected. They think in their mind, "I am such a kee nok farang lifer that they won't dare charge me the tourist price. I am going to get in for the Thai price and then I am going to laugh at the tourists because I am special!" and then when the gate keeper is unimpressed they throw a hissy fit.

Post of the month. :jap:

[stander]

^^

On the contrary, it is a constructive and a very relevant point.

Why should Thailand accommodate people who in reality can't afford to stay here?

After all a retired person has at least 800K in his bank account and that is far more thna your average Thai.

As for a English teacher on minimum wage, I think you will find he is being paid well above the Thai minimum wage.

Edited October 12, 2010 by stander

[jackr]

I think that the main reason so many farang get so bent out of shape is because they have their "thainess" rejected. They think in their mind, "I am such a kee nok farang lifer that they won't dare charge me the tourist price. I am going to get in for the Thai price and then I am going to laugh at the tourists because I am special!" and then when the gate keeper is unimpressed they throw a hissy fit.

Yes Chunky, that is exactly the way I see it.

I don't see it that way. When I'm made to pay a lot more for the same thing, I see it as a rip-off first and that perhaps they would rather deter whitey and keep it untainted for the natives second.

Whether one can afford it is neither here nor there and is a naive viewpoint.

[stander]

20Baht for a Thai national 200Baht for a foreigner, this is what we are talking about here.

I do not feel that I am being ripped off in any way and I have nothing but contempt for farangs who do. I feel for their Thai family who are almost certainly highly embarrassed by the fuss that is made.

[robblok]

20Baht for a Thai national 200Baht for a foreigner, this is what we are talking about here.

I do not feel that I am being ripped off in any way and I have nothing but contempt for farangs who do. I feel for their Thai family who are almost certainly highly embarrassed by the fuss that is made.

Strangely my wife and Thai friends feel embarrassed by the dual pricing. Different folks different strokes. For tourists who don't pay Thai tax i can see it a little bit.. but for residents.. I don't. Parks don't tick me off as much as private places like Bungsamran where a farang pays 1000 bt and a Thai 400. Then we are not talking pennies. Same with some aquariums, those places are not kept up by taxes but are privately owned.

But hey next time ill let the bakery charge you 10 times more for a loaf of bread, because you can afford it and a Thai cant. Strange reasoning because you can afford it you have to pay more. Or if you worry about that kind of money you should not be here.

I have a reasonable income but still why should i squander it.

[stander]

I agree with you with regards to private places, but we are talking about entrance to national parks here, so your cost of bread scenario is a bit strange, to say the least.

My Thai family and friends would definetly consider me a "cheap Charlie" if I made a fuss, but hey as you say "different strokes for different folks".

[theoldgit]

....... I have nothing but contempt for farangs who do.......... I feel for their Thai family who are almost certainly highly embarrassed by the fuss that is made.

Contempt? you have a real problem.

[robblok]

I agree with you with regards to private places, but we are talking about entrance to national parks here, so your cost of bread scenario is a bit strange, to say the least.

My Thai family and friends would definetly consider me a "cheap Charlie" if I made a fuss, but hey as you say "different strokes for different folks".

The thing is both the loaf of bread and the entrance fee are then based on skin color and presumed wealth. That is the point im trying to make. But for national parks kept up by tax money i can see it a little bit for tourists. However if a resident pays income tax he should have the same rights to the park.

When i went to the south last year the boat driver even commented on the high prices of the national parks on the islands and offered to drop us out of sight of the government guys. I told him don't drop me at all im not going to pay 200 baht for a 10 minute stay at a beach and im not going to circumvent it.

But like i said the private places bug me the most, and for national parks paying 200 bt is not a big problem, but its more the difference in price based on skin color and presumed wealth. I just judge if it is worth me or not if so ill pay else i skip it. I am sure some parks are determinately worth it but other meager waterfalls are not.

[stander]

....... I have nothing but contempt for farangs who do.......... I feel for their Thai family who are almost certainly highly embarrassed by the fuss that is made.

Contempt? you have a real problem.

Contempt, yes most certainly. For me it is simple, it is about the haves and the have not’s and as far as I am concerned every farang should fall into the have category. So if you are not willing to pay that bit extra then don’t go and maybe it is time to reconsider if this is the place for you.

[stander]

I agree with you with regards to private places, but we are talking about entrance to national parks here, so your cost of bread scenario is a bit strange, to say the least.

My Thai family and friends would definetly consider me a "cheap Charlie" if I made a fuss, but hey as you say "different strokes for different folks".

The thing is both the loaf of bread and the entrance fee are then based on skin color and presumed wealth. That is the point im trying to make. But for national parks kept up by tax money i can see it a little bit for tourists. However if a resident pays income tax he should have the same rights to the park.

When i went to the south last year the boat driver even commented on the high prices of the national parks on the islands and offered to drop us out of sight of the government guys. I told him don't drop me at all im not going to pay 200 baht for a 10 minute stay at a beach and im not going to circumvent it.

But like i said the private places bug me the most, and for national parks paying 200 bt is not a big problem, but its more the difference in price based on skin color and presumed wealth. I just judge if it is worth me or not if so ill pay else i skip it. I am sure some parks are determinately worth it but other meager waterfalls are not.

I am sorry, but really I just don't get it, .................200Baht, £4 ,$6, but let's agree to disagree

[robblok]

I agree with you with regards to private places, but we are talking about entrance to national parks here, so your cost of bread scenario is a bit strange, to say the least.

My Thai family and friends would definetly consider me a "cheap Charlie" if I made a fuss, but hey as you say "different strokes for different folks".

The thing is both the loaf of bread and the entrance fee are then based on skin color and presumed wealth. That is the point im trying to make. But for national parks kept up by tax money i can see it a little bit for tourists. However if a resident pays income tax he should have the same rights to the park.

When i went to the south last year the boat driver even commented on the high prices of the national parks on the islands and offered to drop us out of sight of the government guys. I told him don't drop me at all im not going to pay 200 baht for a 10 minute stay at a beach and im not going to circumvent it.

But like i said the private places bug me the most, and for national parks paying 200 bt is not a big problem, but its more the difference in price based on skin color and presumed wealth. I just judge if it is worth me or not if so ill pay else i skip it. I am sure some parks are determinately worth it but other meager waterfalls are not.

I am sorry, but really I just don't get it, .................200Baht, £4 ,$6, but let's agree to disagree

Lets agree to disagree.. i like that.

What i mean was i went with a boat touring islands.. and just to hop on the beach and stay there maybe half an hour was 200bt.. then it would not be worth it for me.

But going trekking for a day in a great park and pay 200bt to enter... then it would be worth it.

If its just a simple waterfall where i stay for a short time that isn't really special like in Ko Chang.. then its not worth it.

That is basically it, i don't like paying farang prices but I would on some occasions if i think its worth it.

[Sojourner]

Well, not just Thailand has a double standard for parks and recreation. At the Indiana Dunes State Park on the shores of Lake Michigan I was charged double because I didn't have an Indiana driver's license. I used to live in Northwest Indiana and never knew they charged double for "foreigners".

[thunder30101]

Its bullshit plain and simple, and for you jerk-offs that think its okay, YOU shouldnt be here at all in my opinion, YOU are the reason there is so much discrimination against foreigners because YOU bow your little heads and bend over while they stick it in you which makes them think they can do it to everyone !!!! Take your freaking money and your I can afford it and you cant attitude and go somewhere else to live so i dont have to explain to thais that is just isnt right in the civilised world to dual price anyone.

[theoldgit]

^^^^

My view entirely, but said with feeling.

[JusMe]

For me it is simple, it is about the haves and the have not's and as far as I am concerned every farang should fall into the have category.

So Khunying Potjaman pays 20 baht, and Joe Backpacker pays 200 baht, and it's all about the haves and have nots?

Nope, clearly it's about the passport you hold.

[thomo]

Don't show them your TDL and pay the few hundred baht. Helping keep the beautiful NPs of Thailand maintained and as beautiful as they are is worth it. Then give the attendant a 100b tip, as a lowly paid government employee it's nice to help them out.

It's nice to be nice.

[thomo]

Its bullshit plain and simple, and for you jerk-offs that think its okay, YOU shouldnt be here at all in my opinion, YOU are the reason there is so much discrimination against foreigners because YOU bow your little heads and bend over while they stick it in you which makes them think they can do it to everyone !!!! Take your freaking money and your I can afford it and you cant attitude and go somewhere else to live so i dont have to explain to thais that is just isnt right in the civilised world to dual price anyone.

Oh dear.... Thailand's eating somebody up.

If you wouldn't be happier in your homeland, your homeland must really chew you up.

[robblok]

Don't show them your TDL and pay the few hundred baht. Helping keep the beautiful NPs of Thailand maintained and as beautiful as they are is worth it. Then give the attendant a 100b tip, as a lowly paid government employee it's nice to help them out.

It's nice to be nice.

Id hate to say it but similan has loads of tourists and gets loads of money but it only declined. The place had construction garbage everywhere. THe rangers did not even make an effort to tidy it up. Such a shame for such a great place.

[tim armstrong]

Interesting viewpoints. I don't think it's about the actual amount, as 200 baht is not a large amount for many foreigners. But to me its more about the message it sends to tourists and to those of us who live here. Which is fairly clear - despite the smiles, yes, we really are more interested in your money than anything else, however long you've lived here. If you have lived in country where people are generally treated with fairness and equality, Its still suks to see this attitude, even if you can choose to live somewhere else.

I think dual pricing is generally unacceptable, especially when its deliberately not made clear. By contrast Vietnam has a dual pricing sytem for foreigners, but its very obvious, and you're usually told about it by locals, and its not something you discover after the event.

[IanForbes]

I guess the few of us who don't mind paying are out voted. In that case I think Thailand should raise the prices of taxi fares equal to what you pay in North America or the UK. And, jack up the cost of food by at least 5 times, and accommodation by the same amount. Then, they could lower the prices to the National parks to the same as Thais pay. Of course, the Thais would also have to have their wages increased to compensate for their living costs, and expats wouldn't be able to afford maids and servents. That should satisfy all the expats complaining about 2 tier pricing .

[gregb]

I guess the few of us who don't mind paying are out voted. In that case I think Thailand should raise the prices of taxi fares equal to what you pay in North America or the UK. And, jack up the cost of food by at least 5 times, and accommodation by the same amount. Then, they could lower the prices to the National parks to the same as Thais pay. Of course, the Thais would also have to have their wages increased to compensate for their living costs, and expats wouldn't be able to afford maids and servents. That should satisfy all the expats complaining about 2 tier pricing .

Ian,

While I always appreciate your very level headed viewpoint, in this case I must respectfully disagree with everything you've said. I know you are retired, but many of us here work. We pay taxes into the system. More taxes than the Thais if truth be told. And we aren't flush with cash from a cushy Western retirement package or accumulated years of savings from overinflated Western salaries. We are trying our best to raise a Thai family in the Thai economic environment, and all we ask is that we be given the opportunity to take our families to a national park without being extorted or blackmailed for the price of admission.

We don't have maids or drivers. We work...hard. Long, exhausting hours. The system doesn't need to be changed to that of the West, as you mistakenly and unfairly quip. It is acceptable the way it is, but those of us who are already struggling to raise a family do not need additional unfair charges thrust at us when we should be receiving just the opposite. For people like yourself, who are happy to pay more, I suggest a donation box is in order.

For those of us who can find better uses for that 200 baht than giving even more to an already corrupt government, we should be allowed to use it in our own way to help our own family. Foreigners raising families over here suffer enough indignities already. It is not too much to ask that the government show an equitable policy to those of us who are paying their salaries and giving them the opportunity to fill their personal coffers with the spoils of corrupt practices.

Normally, you are the voice of reason on this site. Unfortunately, on this particular problem, your opinion is simply flawed. My family needs that 200 baht more than a corrupt government minister. You may feel differently, but then you would be wrong.

[thomo]

I think dual pricing is generally unacceptable,

So you think that locals, with an average wage of 8,000b per month or whatever the average salary is, shouldn't be granted a lower rate to visit their own countries NP's, as they otherwise wouldn't be able to afford seeing them?

Must say that that's a disgusting viewpoint.

[JiveTalker]

I guess the few of us who don't mind paying are out voted. In that case I think Thailand should raise the prices of taxi fares equal to what you pay in North America or the UK. And, jack up the cost of food by at least 5 times, and accommodation by the same amount. Then, they could lower the prices to the National parks to the same as Thais pay. Of course, the Thais would also have to have their wages increased to compensate for their living costs, and expats wouldn't be able to afford maids and servents. That should satisfy all the expats complaining about 2 tier pricing .

Ian,

While I always appreciate your very level headed viewpoint, in this case I must respectfully disagree with everything you've said. I know you are retired, but many of us here work. We pay taxes into the system. More taxes than the Thais if truth be told. And we aren't flush with cash from a cushy Western retirement package or accumulated years of savings from overinflated Western salaries. We are trying our best to raise a Thai family in the Thai economic environment, and all we ask is that we be given the opportunity to take our families to a national park without being extorted or blackmailed for the price of admission.

We don't have maids or drivers. We work...hard. Long, exhausting hours. The system doesn't need to be changed to that of the West, as you mistakenly and unfairly quip. It is acceptable the way it is, but those of us who are already struggling to raise a family do not need additional unfair charges thrust at us when we should be receiving just the opposite. For people like yourself, who are happy to pay more, I suggest a donation box is in order.

For those of us who can find better uses for that 200 baht than giving even more to an already corrupt government, we should be allowed to use it in our own way to help our own family. Foreigners raising families over here suffer enough indignities already. It is not too much to ask that the government show an equitable policy to those of us who are paying their salaries and giving them the opportunity to fill their personal coffers with the spoils of corrupt practices.

Normally, you are the voice of reason on this site. Unfortunately, on this particular problem, your opinion is simply flawed. My family needs that 200 baht more than a corrupt government minister. You may feel differently, but then you would be wrong.

Point well made. I don't think people realise that by tolerating dual pricing they are helping some Thai people justify their unethical actions. For any foreigner trying to do work or do business here legally on an even playing field it's very frustrating to be charged more for services and products because you have a different passport. It shouldn't be accepted at any level by any foreigner that calls Thailand home. It's irresponsible.

[elkangorito]

1] People, who are 'obviously' foreigners, are asked to pay greatly inflated prices compared to Thai nationals.

2] Passport checks do not seem to be carried out in order to ascertain who is a foreigner & who is not. If one doesn't look like a foreigner, they may not be subject to extra charges.

3] Since many of us 'obvious foreigners' are admitted to government run facilities for the same price as a Thai national (Work Permit, Driving License), it would appear that foreigners are not the target.

4] Where does this extra 'foreigner' money go?

Solution:

Stop this discrimination. Corruption becomes a lot more difficult when the playing field is level.

This behaviour certainly does not occur in Australia, as it is against the law.

[thomo]

This behaviour certainly does not occur in Australia, as it is against the law.

Kakadu National Park Entry Fee

The $25 fee (which is inclusive of GST) will apply to all interstate and international visitors aged 16 years and over.

A foreigner will have to pay $25, a local will pay nothing.

Edited October 13, 2010 by thomo

[elkangorito]

This behaviour certainly does not occur in Australia, as it is against the law.

Kakadu National Park Entry Fee

The $25 fee (which is inclusive of GST) will apply to all interstate and international visitors aged 16 years and over. All Northern Territory residents and children under 16 are exempt.

A foreigner will have to pay $25, a local will pay nothing.

My modifications in blue (above). Sorry but I had to add the bit about people under 16.

[Kwasaki]

I really don't care about whether I have to pay double, treble, because let's face it we are talking about pennies.

But it's not actually double or treble is it, it's ten fold, and it's not a few extra pennies it's an extra £3.75 or $6, ok not a lot of money in the grand scheme of things but not pennies.

Put another slant on it, you could be a retired person from overseas living on a reduced income or an English teacher on the minimum wage, wanting a reasonable day out with the family you're struggling to support, you have to pay 10 times the admission price of your family, meanwhile a hi-so drives up to the same park in his top of the range BMW and pays 20 Baht, and probably no tax.

I personally will not go to an attraction that charges me ten times more than my partner, and she agrees with my stand, though I suspect the cashiers don't actually give a sh*t if we go in or walk away. We take the same stand when we visit my home country, the UK, we absolutly refuse to go to attractions that charge her more because she is not British, well we would do if we ever came across one.

100% right sir. it's basically principle in my book not money.

[robblok]

This behaviour certainly does not occur in Australia, as it is against the law.

Kakadu National Park Entry Fee

The $25 fee (which is inclusive of GST) will apply to all interstate and international visitors aged 16 years and over. All Northern Territory residents and children under 16 are exempt.

A foreigner will have to pay $25, a local will pay nothing.

My modifications in blue (above). Sorry but I had to add the bit about people under 16.

I can live with the residents.. non residents part. Many expats are residents here.. so if we were exempt its ok because its something that can be explained by tax issues. Its a different story from skin color and presumed wealth.

[IanForbes]

Do I think that 2 tier pricing it okay because of skin colour? No. Does it really bother me... same answer... No. Does it REALLY inconvenience the average farang who has to pay an extra 200 baht? Hardly. How many times a year does one actually visit the National Parks?

I could write a whole list of things that are wrong with Thailand. It would take several pages. And, most of the complaints are far more important for every day living than the 2 tier pricing for parks. But, does that stop me from spending half my remaining years in a country I've grown to love? Not a chance.

[sarahsbloke]

200bht a night out with my family or enough food for the family to eat for 2 days.

To some living here it's not a lot.

Anyway

Has anyone noticed that when you get away from tourist areas, nobody pays any entrance fee to National parks.

They are free to enter. Yesterday the family went to a National Park in Petchabun to see Than Thip waterfall.

Much better than any other waterfall I have seen so far, large swimming area, and a life guard with life ring.

The water was very deep.

Edited October 14, 2010 by sarahsbloke