Israel offers to extend moratorium on settlements if Palestinians recognize it as Jewish state

[Ulysses G.]

The Israelis do have a heavy hand in what is published.

Any proof of this? Are you getting confused with Jews - many of who are left-wing liberals who do not support Israel?

[SergeiY]

Ulysees

Actually, there was never a Palestine (other than the Jewish one) or a Palestinian people. There was mostly a big desert and there were always Jews there, as well as stateless Arabs.

The Jews - whose families had been there forever - legally bought land for Jewish settlers and worked it and made it fruitful, but the Arabs were jealous and wanted it back and tried to drive them off of it (and into the sea).

The Jews fought back and asked the UN for help. The UN approved two states to settle the problem, but when the Jews declared independence they were attacked by four huge Arab countries whose butt they kicked.

When the next flight from planet Thargon leaves for Earth, jump on it and lets talk about the history of Palestine on Earth.

Palestine WAS a real country with REAL people. Prior to being Muslim, the Palastinians were Christian. They were under Ottoman Rule until the Brits were 'given' them after world war 1. There was no 'jew's asking for help' and being 'Driven in to the sea. Hundreds of thousands of jewish refugees came to the area between 1920 and 1930, they were welcome there was no problem. In 47/48 the UN (kicked off by the Brits), with two million people living in Palestine, 1/3 of them Jews, established two seperate states, one of Israel and one of Palastine. Two thirds of the Arabic population were forced in to neighboring countries and have been unable to return. It was not just desert it was populated and productive land.

You know I could go on but I have suddenly realised it is futile with folks like yourself and Jingthing.So I am just going to stop writing. I take neither side, but make it my responsibility to get to the bottom of things. I am sorry your education system lied to you in order to promote the agenda of governments, but the truth is out there scully! Believe no Government. Go find it for yourself.

The maps speak volumes. I'd sure be fighting the 'invaders' I tell you.

Bingo.

[Ulysses G.]

Bingo?

The term "Palestine" is believed to be derived from the Philistines, an Aegean people who, in the 12th Century B.C.E., settled along the Mediterranean coastal plain of what are now Israel and the Gaza Strip. In the second century C.E., after crushing the last Jewish revolt, the Romans first applied the name Palaestina to Judea (the southern portion of what is now called the West Bank) in an attempt to minimize Jewish identification with the land of Israel. The Arabic word "Filastin" is derived from this Latin name.

The Hebrews entered the Land of Israel about 1300 B.C.E., living under a tribal confederation until being united under the first monarch, King Saul. The second king, David, established Jerusalem as the capital around 1000 B.C.E. David's son, Solomon built the Temple soon thereafter and consolidated the military, administrative and religious functions of the kingdom. The nation was divided under Solomon's son, with the northern kingdom (Israel) lasting until 722 B.C.E., when the Assyrians destroyed it, and the southern kingdom (Judah) surviving until the Babylonian conquest in 586 B.C.E. The Jewish people enjoyed brief periods of sovereignty afterward before most Jews were finally driven from their homeland in 135 C.E.

Jewish independence in the Land of Israel lasted for more than 400 years. This is much longer than Americans have enjoyed independence in what has become known as the United States. In fact, if not for foreign conquerors, Israel would be 3,000 years old today.

Palestine was never an exclusively Arab country, although Arabic gradually became the language of most the population after the Muslim invasions of the seventh century. No independent Arab or Palestinian state ever existed in Palestine. When the distinguished Arab-American historian, Princeton University Prof. Philip Hitti, testified against partition before the Anglo-American Committee in 1946, he said: "There is no such thing as 'Palestine' in history, absolutely not."

Prior to partition, Palestinian Arabs did not view themselves as having a separate identity. When the First Congress of Muslim-Christian Associations met in Jerusalem in February 1919 to choose Palestinian representatives for the Paris Peace Conference, the following resolution was adopted:

We consider Palestine as part of Arab Syria, as it has never been separated from it at any time. We are connected with it by national, religious, linguistic, natural, economic and geographical bonds.6

In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."

The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.

http://answers.yahoo...11181033AAIktxm

Edited October 15, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[SergeiY]

^^

omg & blah.

Historical there was also never ever an Israel as the Jewish nation state.

The Zionists came as colonialists and conquerer not with the intention to integrate and blend in, but with the goal to take over, to rule and kick the others out.

That can be discuses without bringing the nazis into the debate or finger point at the Arabs.

[Ulysses G.]

More unsubstantiated

[hobanse]

'PA recognized Israel's existence in 1993, and now Israel needs to recognize the Palestinian state in line with the 1967 borders,' Abbas tells left-wing MK's in Ramallah.

http://www.haaretz.com/

[Ulysses G.]

'PA recognized Israel's existence in 1993

The 1993 borders make a lot more sense.

[Pakboong]

The Israelis do have a heavy hand in what is published.

Any proof of this? Are you getting confused with Jews - many of who are left-wing liberals who do not support Israel?

Your definition of proof is a bit different than mine but I will mention Rupert Murdock who happens to own the Wall Street Journal, 20th century Fox, New York Post, News of the World, The Times, the Dow Jones & Company and my favorite, the Fox News.

Murdock speaks at an ADL banquet this past week and speaks the following:

“Israel becomes increasingly ostracized, while Iran – a nation that has made no secret of wishing Israel’s destruction – pursues nuclear weapons loudly, proudly, and without apparent fear of rebuke.”

“We live in a world where there is an ongoing war against the Jews.”

He is clearly biased so how can his assets be unbiased?

Interestingly, a Saudi prince recently bought a controlling interest in Fox News. Saudi Arabian Prince Al-Waleed bin Tala would love to bring an end to Iran. He’d like nothing better than to be the only game in town for the Islamic community to run to. Saudi Arabia is an American ally and predominantly Sunni. Iran is predominantly Shiite and a Western enemy. The rivalry between Saudi Arabia and Iran is comparable to the rivalry between the Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland. So we can expect little to change the current bias that I believe exists.

It gets conventient for the news not to mention this particular aspect of the situation.

The line between Israel and the Jews gets crossed often Murdock is an Australian of Jewish ethnicity, he believes he is speaking for Israel but a Jew could easily maintain that he is a left wing liberal and only speaking for Jews of the same ilk. I for one believe he is speaking for both.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Pakboong

[Ulysses G.]

So you are admitting that the Israelis have little to do with controlling the media and that many Jews do not support Israel? Your complaints seem to be more about private citizens that do pull for Israel over the Arabs.

Don't worry, between the fact that most of the media are left-wing and the Al Jazeera TV network, the Arabs are getting plenty of sympathetic coverage of their point of view.

[Pakboong]

So you are admitting that the Israelis have little to do with controlling the media and that many Jews do not support Israel? Your complaints seem to be more about private citizens that do pull for Israel over the Arabs.

Don't worry, between the fact that most of the media are left-wing and the Al Jazeera TV network, the Arabs are getting plenty of sympathetic coverage of their point of view.

We are free to interpret these sources anyway we like. If you refer to AIPAC or the America Israel Publc Affairs Committee it is arguably the most powerful political lobby in America. They contributed over $34,000,000 to American political candidates between 1978 and 2000 alone. You have to be in a coma to not know this. They could all be called private citizens but that is not their agenda. The News is influenced by them a bunch.

Not long ago an aid boat was attacked in the Persian Gulf by the IDF. 9 on board were killed. The Israeli investigation concluded self defense, the UN investigation concluded crimes against humanity. You can choose your source. But I don't think OJ Simpson was innocent, but, perhaps he was because he was found innocent by a jury of his peers.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Pakboong

[Ulysses G.]

The BBC are usually pretty anti-Israel, but they admitted that they were not guilty in the blockade running incident - while AL Jazeera lied about it until the Israeli surveillance tapes of the soliers being attacked appeared.

I'll take the BBC's word over the corrupt UN any day.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Pakboong]

The BBC are usually pretty anti-Israel, but they admitted that they were not guilty in the blockade running incident - while AL Jazeera lied about it until the Israeli surveillance tapes of the soliers being attacked appeared.

I'll take the BBC's word over the corrupt UN any day.

It think the UN are a bunch of anti-semites otherwise they would have not found against Israel.

In fact, it is very anti-semitic of you to keep this thread going. Neither of us are going to concede and you know that. You are probably one of those right wing extremist who spends all their time reading these conspiracy blogs and are content to have me throw out these examples.

[Ulysses G.]

It think the UN are a bunch of anti-Semites otherwise they would have not found against Israel.

Sounds like the theories of a far-left conspiracy nut.

However, concerning the UN, many of the member countries have been bought off with Arab oil and Arab oil money, but I doubt that most of the Representatives are anti-Semitic when they are not benefiting financially.

Edited October 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[hobanse]

Israeli settlers begin new settlement expansion outside Jenin

Saturday October 16, 2010 11:41 by Saed Bannoura - IMEMC News

Despite a statement by US officials Friday that they were disappointed in Israel's decision to continue expanding settlements in the West Bank and Jerusalem, new and existing settlements have begun a massive building spree, including in several settlements near Jenin

http://www.imemc.org/article/59651

[Ulysses G.]

Israel has never said that they will not build in Jerusalem and there is nothing illegal about doing so.

MYTH

"Under UN Resolution 242, East Jerusalem is considered 'occupied territory.' Israel's annexation of Jerusalem therefore violates the UN resolution."

FACT

One drafter of the UN Resolution was then-U.S. Ambassador to the UN Arthur Goldberg. According to Goldberg, "Resolution 242 in no way refers to Jerusalem, and this omission was deliberate....Jerusalem was a discrete matter, not linked to the West Bank." In several speeches at the UN in 1967, Goldberg said: "I repeatedly stated that the armistice lines of 1948 were intended to be temporary. This, of course, was particularly true of Jerusalem. At no time in these many speeches did I refer to East Jerusalem as occupied territory."²¹

Because Israel was defending itself from aggression in the 1948 and 1967 wars, former President of the International Court of Justice Steven Schwebel wrote, it has a better claim to sovereignty over Jerusalem than its Arab neighbors.²²

^[/url]MYTH

^{“Israel has not acknowledged Palestinian claims to Jerusalem.“}

^FACT

^{Jerusalem was never the capital of any Arab entity. Palestinians have no special claim to the city; they simply demand it as their capital.}

^{Israel has recognized that the city has a large Palestinian population, that the city is important to Muslims, and that making concessions on the sovereignty of the city might help minimize the conflict with the Palestinians. The problem has been that Palestinians have shown no reciprocal appreciation for the Jewish majority in the city, the significance of Jerusalem to the Jewish people or the fact that it is already the nation’’s capital.}

^{The signed in 1993 left open the status of . Article V said only that is one of the issues to be discussed in the permanent status negotiations. The agreed minutes also mention , stipulating that the Palestinian Council’s jurisdiction does not extend to the city. Prime Minister said that will “not be included in any sphere of the prerogatives of whatever body will conduct Palestinian affairs in the territories. will remain under Israeli sovereignty.”}

http://www.jewishvir...usalem.html#q13

Edited October 16, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[koheesti]

Not long ago an aid boat was attacked in the Persian Gulf by the IDF. 9 on board were killed. The Israeli investigation concluded self defense, the UN investigation concluded crimes against humanity.

How did the IDF get all the way over to the Persian Gulf? That's quite a distance from home.

[TAWP]

Interestingly, a Saudi prince recently bought a controlling interest in Fox News. Saudi Arabian Prince Al-Waleed bin Tala would love to bring an end to Iran.

Since when is 7% a controlling interest? It is in regards to News Corp, not FOX News.

"Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud of Saudi Arabia, through his Kingdom Holding Company, owns 7% of News Corp.'s shares, making Kingdom Holdings the second largest shareholder."

[Pakboong]

It think the UN are a bunch of anti-Semites otherwise they would have not found against Israel.

Sounds like the theories of a far-left conspiracy nut.

However, concerning the UN, many of the member countries have been bought off with Arab oil and Arab oil money, but I doubt that most of the Representatives are anti-Semitic when they are not benefiting financially.

Perhaps, given that pretty much every thing that happens is a conspiracy in some sense of the word.

I am certain you are smart enough to get the point without me spelling it out. That is simply how it usually works.

Of course countries are bought off, hence the comment about AIPAC contributions to US politicians made earlier. I do not have a problem with it. Just the way it works.

We end up with our own interpretation based on who we feel is most believable. But either way, it is likely a conspiracy of some sort.

[Pakboong]

Not long ago an aid boat was attacked in the Persian Gulf by the IDF. 9 on board were killed. The Israeli investigation concluded self defense, the UN investigation concluded crimes against humanity.

How did the IDF get all the way over to the Persian Gulf? That's quite a distance from home.

Sorry, I don't know as much as I would like to think I do.

[Pakboong]

Interestingly, a Saudi prince recently bought a controlling interest in Fox News. Saudi Arabian Prince Al-Waleed bin Tala would love to bring an end to Iran.

Since when is 7% a controlling interest? It is in regards to News Corp, not FOX News.

"Prince Alwaleed bin Talal al-Saud of Saudi Arabia, through his Kingdom Holding Company, owns 7% of News Corp.'s shares, making Kingdom Holdings the second largest shareholder."

Sorry, you know how those conspiracy blogs don't always get their facts straight. But, the point was relevant to the discussion. I read it differently but I am not prepared to argue that I am correct because the meat of the point was the tribal differences between Iran and Saudi Arabia and a follow up on a comment I made about the Arabs not being represented in the media. You have actually contributed to my point by clearing it up that 7% of a minor asset is the only mainstream representation they have and that small percentage is canceled by a tribal conflict within the Arab countries.

[siampolee]

Let's have a laugh I could not ignore the clip.

[rubin]

For the last 35 years of my life i've been listening about this middle east conflict almost every single day in the news. Gosh, how boring it is!

[Pakboong]

So you are admitting that the Israelis have little to do with controlling the media and that many Jews do not support Israel? Your complaints seem to be more about private citizens that do pull for Israel over the Arabs.

Don't worry, between the fact that most of the media are left-wing and the Al Jazeera TV network, the Arabs are getting plenty of sympathetic coverage of their point of view.

This is proof of nothing but interesting so I will attach it here:

"Murdoch's close relationship with Sharon and heavy investment in Israel led former Times Africa correspondent Sam Kiley to resign his position. "The Times foreign editor and other middle managers flew into hysterical terror every time a pro-Israel lobbying group wrote in with a quibble or complaint," Kiley said, "and then usually took [the lobby's] side against their own correspondent...No pro-Israel lobbyist ever dreamed of having such power over a great national newspaper." After one conversation in which Kiley was asked not to mention a 12-year-old Palestinian boy who was killed by Israeli troops, the reporter "was left wordless, so I quit."

Just one person's version of what might have been the case but I can live with it as probable.

[shiatsuman]

Israel has a right wing government and that is a shame, but to compare them to Nazis and their mass death camps is OFFENSIVE.

Isreal actions of creating a prison camp in gaza and then attempting to totaly destroy it can justifiably compared with the Nazi liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto.

The Zionist terrorists who founded Isreal were trained by the Italian fascits in the 30,s. They then conducted a vicious terror campaign against the British authorities in Palestine until the founding of Isreal. The comparisons is therefore fair whilst in no way being anti semtic or denying the holocost.

[Ulysses G.]

So you are admitting that the Israelis have little to do with controlling the media and that many Jews do not support Israel?

This is proof of nothing but interesting so I will attach it here:

"Murdoch's close relationship with Sharon and heavy investment in Israel led former Times Africa correspondent Sam Kiley to resign his position.

So your complain is really about one Jewish person - Rupert Mudoch - with his own news group and has nothing to do with Israel "controlling" history.

[Ulysses G.]

Israel has a right wing government and that is a shame, but to compare them to Nazis and their mass death camps is OFFENSIVE.

Isreal actions of creating a prison camp in Gaza and then attempting to totally destroy it can justifiably compared with the Nazi liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto.

Everyone is the Warsaw Ghetto was gassed or shot. Hamas has turned Gaza into what it is by constant attacks on Israel but there are plenty of Palestinians living there. There is no comparison at all.

[Ulysses G.]

The Zionist terrorists who founded Isreal were trained by the Italian fascits in the 30,s. They then conducted a vicious terror campaign against the British authorities in Palestine until the founding of Isreal.

I wonder why?

Announced in 1917 in the midst of World War I, The Balfour Declaration committed Britain to supporting the establishment in Palestine of "a national home for the Jewish people." Schneer demonstrates that, although most British leaders were sympathetic to Zionist aspirations, they were also extraordinarily duplicitous in their dealings with the Zionists -- and with the Turks and Arabs as well. At the same time the British were promising Palestine to the Jews they were promising its northern parts to France and to the Arabs. And they promised Turkey that she could keep Palestine if she would sign a separate peace treaty with the Allies.

"Basically, Prime Minister David Lloyd George was willing to promise anything to anybody in order to win the war," said Schneer, "and we are living with the consequences."

http://www.gatech.ed....html?nid=60720

[hobanse]

The Zionist terrorists who founded Isreal were trained by the Italian fascits in the 30,s. They then conducted a vicious terror campaign against the British authorities in Palestine until the founding of Isreal.

I wonder why?

Announced in 1917 in the midst of World War I, The Balfour Declaration committed Britain to supporting the establishment in Palestine of "a national home for the Jewish people." Schneer demonstrates that, although most British leaders were sympathetic to Zionist aspirations, they were also extraordinarily duplicitous in their dealings with the Zionists -- and with the Turks and Arabs as well. At the same time the British were promising Palestine to the Jews they were promising its northern parts to France and to the Arabs. And they promised Turkey that she could keep Palestine if she would sign a separate peace treaty with the Allies.

"Basically, Prime Minister David Lloyd George was willing to promise anything to anybody in order to win the war," said Schneer, "and we are living with the consequences."

http://www.gatech.ed....html?nid=60720

Britan can promise nobody nothing!!

[hobanse]

.

Everyone is the Warsaw Ghetto was gassed or shot. Hamas has turned Gaza into what it is by constant attacks on Israel but there are plenty of Palestinians living there. There is no comparison at all.

We learn from the history book, the Naziz killed 6 million jews, but we don`t learn how many survived the Holocaust.

Simon Wiesenthal,

The Nazis killed almost six million Jews; only a few hundred thousand survived the ghettos and camps of Nazi-dominated Europe. From the beginning, survival was a matter of pure chance; the Jews did not control their own fate. Those caught in the machine of destruction-roundups and deportations-could do nothing to alter their fate. At that point, survival depended on two factors: luck and the ability to do hard labor.

http://motlc.wiesenthal.com/site/pp.asp?c=gvKVLcMVIuG&b=394849#3

In Israel are still a few hundred thousand Holocaust surviviors with no money.

[SergeiY]

FACT

Jerusalem was never the capital of any Arab entity. Palestinians have no special claim to the city; they simply demand it as their capital.

QUESTION

What is the "special claim" that makes Jerusalem to the capital of an Jewish State?

Is it that the land was a promise by God? But old father Abraham and God and so on isn't that a MYTH too?