Thai Tradespeople.

[elkangorito]

It appears as though there are two fields of thought:

1] Thai tradespersons who work for multinationals (large companies). These people appear to do a good job.

2] Thai tradespersons who do local work. The opinion so far seems that good work is possible but not the 'norm'.

Temperature is one thing & humidity is another. If I was working in conditions such as 35 degrees Celsius at 80% humidity, I would be slower than usual...much slower as a matter of fact.

The other thing is that the Thai Vocational System does not seem to provide training with regard to an 'eye for detail'. At the local college, some work is done by students, which is sub-standard. Mind you, this work is largely carried out without teacher supervision so if the student makes an initial mistake, the work continues with the same mistake(s).

Normal western safety procedures are not apparent on any job.

With regard to 1] above, I suggest that the Thai tradespersons may have undergone some form of 'extra' training, whether this occured at the behest of the company or not, is not important. For some reason, they can do good work.

With regard to 2] above, I think the lack of 'Standards' has a great deal to do with poor craftsmanship, as well as the education system.

Comparing western workers to Thai workers is not necessarily a good comparison.

Many western workers are required to perform to the requirements of 'shareholders', which places huge strains on labour resources. I remember when, back in the 80's, a labour force of 'X' was required to do a job. Generally, the job was done to the satisfaction of the employer & hardly ever had any 'comebacks' (rework).

These days, western workers find themselves doing the same job but with a greatly reduced labour content. Also, a high quality of work is still required under these circumstances.

The only reason why western employers get away with such 'cost effective' situations is because many people have mortgages &/or children & are therefore 'chained to the wheel'.

Single people under 40, without children or a mortgage, are a liability as they can 'pack up their pimples & puss off'. Generally, the under 40's are unemployable for these reasons.

More questions:

1] Would you like Thailand to emulate the west, as far as quality of work versus time/cost is concerned?

2] Would you like Thailand to fall victim to the requirements of 'shareholders', which will certainly have a negative effect upon the 'quality of life' enjoyed by many in Thailand?

3] Would you like work done to a good standard & pay accordingly?

4] Would you like a set of 'Thai Standards' to govern the work done?

5] Would you endorse a more stringent 'trade' education curriculum within Thailand?

[dmax]

well i went through an absolute nightmare building my home last year , but listen up , these thai people havent had the tutoring we in the west get from colledges or apprentiships, if they had im sure there would be many more very skilled people of course, some of the guys who helped build my house were very skilled , 90 % of them were not

[GM1955]

well i went through an absolute nightmare building my home last year , but listen up , these thai people havent had the tutoring we in the west get from colledges or apprentiships, if they had im sure there would be many more very skilled people of course, some of the guys who helped build my house were very skilled , 90 % of them were not

So you done most of it yourself?

[GM1955]

It appears as though there are two fields of thought:

Yeah, and one field of thought is a jumped up Farang asshol_e sniping at Thai people perfectly safe in his anonymity.

In my many years here, there are certainly more brave guys on anonymous internet forums than there are in real life.

[travelmann]

<BR>

<BR>

<BR>Let's set a base line here:<BR><BR><BR>Who here is a qualified 'Time Served Apprenticed Craftsman'? <BR><BR>Who here hold's national trade certificates?<BR><BR>Or a completed certificate of Apprenticeship Indenture.<BR><BR><BR>-----<BR><BR>Me first - Yes to all.<BR>

<BR><BR>But as you said in a reply to another post of me,you are not a Thai national and this topic is about Thai tradesmen.<BR>

<BR><BR>But the answer's to the questions might reveal if the people dishing Thais here actually know what trade skills are. - The post, by the way, is asking opinions of Thai tradesmen.<BR><BR><BR><BR>So ..... erm...... what trade skills do you have?<BR>

<BR><BR>25 years tiling, decorating, bath and kitchen re fits including lowering ceilings, new boards etc coving, kitchen fitting............... certificates???????????????nope, tell you what heres a kitchen I did recently and bathroom thru into a hall and a spot of tiling.I can tell you now all the certificates in the world for this job mean bugger all, ive seen some wonderful certificates and the guys holding them couldnt paint for toffee or do much else for that matter. Photo of bathroom before I started on gutting it.

Edited October 18, 2010 by travelmann

[GM1955]

. Photo of bathroom before I started on gutting it.

And I assume you have a valid work permit to carry out such beautifications.

[travelmann]

. Photo of bathroom before I started on gutting it.

And I assume you have a valid work permit to carry out such beautifications.

I dont need one this is in the UK:lol:

[Scully]

25 years tiling, decorating, bath and kitchen re fits including lowering ceilings, new boards etc coving, kitchen fitting............... certificates???????????????nope, tell you what heres a kitchen I did recently and bathroom thru into a hall and a spot of tiling.I can tell you now all the certificates in the world for this job mean bugger all, ive seen some wonderful certificates and the guys holding them couldnt paint for toffee or do much else for that matter. Photo of bathroom before I started on gutting it.

This is a western house probably the UK with the plugs in the kitchen. Only a registered electrician would touch the electrics in the kitchen, the wire to the oven has enough electric running through it to kill you straight away. I do not disagree with you that the finish is good however a Thai tradesman don't usually have the tools for this kind of job, they should but they dont.

Do you own the saw for cutting worktops? Did the kitchen come prepacked or half built? Thai products such as bricks and tools are far inferior to the west as those of us that live here know.

Like I said a Thai house compared to a Western house is like comparing a cat with a dog.

[surayu]

And I assume you have a valid work permit to carry out such beautifications.

You need a work permit to carry on things in and for your own house???

[inmysights]

I've just had a run in with some little sht who asked for double the going rate (with a larger outfit, albeit bet the boss pays his workers sod all, so thought money better spent on an individual). He was one of those 'up to you' merchants when pressed for the price beforehand (God I hate that). And I even went out and bought him a packet of fags and a lighter!

Won't be using him again.

[travelmann]

25 years tiling, decorating, bath and kitchen re fits including lowering ceilings, new boards etc coving, kitchen fitting............... certificates???????????????nope, tell you what heres a kitchen I did recently and bathroom thru into a hall and a spot of tiling.I can tell you now all the certificates in the world for this job mean bugger all, ive seen some wonderful certificates and the guys holding them couldnt paint for toffee or do much else for that matter. Photo of bathroom before I started on gutting it.

This is a western house probably the UK with the plugs in the kitchen. Only a registered electrician would touch the electrics in the kitchen, the wire to the oven has enough electric running through it to kill you straight away. I do not disagree with you that the finish is good however a Thai tradesman don't usually have the tools for this kind of job, they should but they dont.

Do you own the saw for cutting worktops? Did the kitchen come prepacked or half built? Thai products such as bricks and tools are far inferior to the west as those of us that live here know.

Like I said a Thai house compared to a Western house is like comparing a cat with a dog.

I think youll find its the wire in the HOB not oven that'll kill you the oven in fact doesnt need a huge supply but the hob has to have minimum 10mm2 cable the oven will do fine on much less. Until a few years ago you could do all your own wiring, I did this one and it was checked by a certified electrician.

Cabinets ar all flat packed and have to be fully assembled, worktops you DONT use saw you use a router to cut the mitres and have a template/jig to do them.

[inmysights]

It tells me there arent many about, I had some "painters" do a room for me this year, when they had finsihed there was more paint on the floor and light fittings than on the walls, they missed various areas used no drop sheets and miles of masking tape something you dont really need if your any good.

And who do you think does the paint work in Thailand's world class hotels and resorts?

Paradon made it to the world top of tennis..........does that mean that Thais are top tennis players??

No but it demonstrates that Thais can be top tennis players.

Just like the thousands of Thais working in the construction industry building first class hotels, spas, condos, shopping centers - Not to mention the faith Honda, Toyota et al have in Thai workers.

Some expat falls off a bar stool, bangs his head and decides in his fully p1ssed and semi concussed state to build a house, hires the cheapest workers he can find, who he can't in anycase communicate with, winds up getting the sh1t build he paid for (and failed to manage) and now condemns all Thai tradesmen.

The issue is not a generalization made from the example of a top Tennis player, the issue is the condemnation of a whole nation of people on the basis of cheap charlie building plans........ That and the vested interest of Farang 'Tradesmen' who delight in condemning Thai workers so that more business can be brought their way.

[Scully]

25 years tiling, decorating, bath and kitchen re fits including lowering ceilings, new boards etc coving, kitchen fitting............... certificates???????????????nope, tell you what heres a kitchen I did recently and bathroom thru into a hall and a spot of tiling.I can tell you now all the certificates in the world for this job mean bugger all, ive seen some wonderful certificates and the guys holding them couldnt paint for toffee or do much else for that matter. Photo of bathroom before I started on gutting it.

This is a western house probably the UK with the plugs in the kitchen. Only a registered electrician would touch the electrics in the kitchen, the wire to the oven has enough electric running through it to kill you straight away. I do not disagree with you that the finish is good however a Thai tradesman don't usually have the tools for this kind of job, they should but they dont.

Do you own the saw for cutting worktops? Did the kitchen come prepacked or half built? Thai products such as bricks and tools are far inferior to the west as those of us that live here know.

Like I said a Thai house compared to a Western house is like comparing a cat with a dog.

I think youll find its the wire in the HOB not oven that'll kill you the oven in fact doesnt need a huge supply but the hob has to have minimum 10mm2 cable the oven will do fine on much less. Until a few years ago you could do all your own wiring, I did this one and it was checked by a certified electrician.

Cabinets ar all flat packed and have to be fully assembled, worktops you DONT use saw you use a router to cut the mitres and have a template/jig to do them.

You missed my point you are comparing a house built in the UK with a Thai house. You don't need to have things checked here for building regs or have to be corgi registered.

I bet you don't get paid minimum wage like general builders here do, no you will make a very good living out of fitting bathrooms and kitchens as it makes good money in the UK.

You will do a good job because you are paid accordingly however a Thai gets paid peanuts so takes short cuts so all I am saying is Thai builders need to know what standards you want and give them more time to complete the job meaning paying a little more.

[inmysights]

Yet but after all this where ANYWHERE is there a list on Thai Visa of GOOD work people, its often asked but not often answered you really would think a decent crew of workmen could clean up here and scoop all the Farang business, or is it just a case ofpeople not wanting to pay for it????

About time there wa s good list of reliable honest architects builders plumbers carpenters etc etc

I'll be embarking on constructing a rather comeplex shaped house soon so I will report back, one person who I have heard good things off is a chap in Pattaya area called "Fluke" he's Thai and appears on a build in another website which is "cool" hint hint.

Because, I've been given recommends by fellow farang/neighbours who turned out to be expensive sht, along with, on the odd occasion, those who do a good job and are paid accordingly. Many farang wouldn't recognise a good and appropriately paid job of work if it jumped up and bit them in the arse. Some of them are also quite mad.

This may come as a surprise to some of you, but the Thai race comprise all of the 'good' and 'bad' in any other population in the world. It's just that in third world countries, there is no regulation, thus no comeback, ie suing the buggers for bad workmanship (or at least the threat of ...)not an option.

Edited October 19, 2010 by inmysights

[surayu]

[Yeah, and one field of thought is a jumped up Farang asshol_e sniping at Thai people perfectly safe in his anonymity.

In my many years here, there are certainly more brave guys on anonymous internet forums than there are in real life.

Yes spot on as usual! i am sure all farangs that had to sent away less than perfect tradesmen used ThaiVisa.Com to let them know to get lost and what did they think of their masterpieces, thanks god there are ops like you which use a copy of their own passport as the avatar and the full address as a signature ok, jokes apart, what the heck has this tell whom or whom not you are in telling others what your opinion is??? is it because if someone is of your likes then he's always right indipendently by the expressed opinions or what? mmmmm

[Naam]

And I assume you have a valid work permit to carry out such beautifications.

You need a work permit to carry on things in and for your own house???

of course you do! you also need a work permit to have legally sex with your Mrs... if she's not the one doing all the work.

[surayu]

"You need a work permit to carry on things in and for your own house???"

of course you do! you also need a work permit to have legally sex with your Mrs... if she's not the one doing all the work.

Do the pictures for issuing the wp needs to be taken on front of the condo entrance as well or just in the main working place? and is it going to be cheaper if she can speak 3 languages? sorry for the sligtly OT but i am sure this matter is of the utmost importance for many....

[tso310]

It doesn't matter what country you're in, you're always going to get good and bad.

[inmysights]

It doesn't matter what country you're in, you're always going to get good and bad.

I already said that.

[travelmann]

25 years tiling, decorating, bath and kitchen re fits including lowering ceilings, new boards etc coving, kitchen fitting............... certificates???????????????nope, tell you what heres a kitchen I did recently and bathroom thru into a hall and a spot of tiling.I can tell you now all the certificates in the world for this job mean bugger all, ive seen some wonderful certificates and the guys holding them couldnt paint for toffee or do much else for that matter. Photo of bathroom before I started on gutting it.

This is a western house probably the UK with the plugs in the kitchen. Only a registered electrician would touch the electrics in the kitchen, the wire to the oven has enough electric running through it to kill you straight away. I do not disagree with you that the finish is good however a Thai tradesman don't usually have the tools for this kind of job, they should but they dont.

Do you own the saw for cutting worktops? Did the kitchen come prepacked or half built? Thai products such as bricks and tools are far inferior to the west as those of us that live here know.

Like I said a Thai house compared to a Western house is like comparing a cat with a dog.

I think youll find its the wire in the HOB not oven that'll kill you the oven in fact doesnt need a huge supply but the hob has to have minimum 10mm2 cable the oven will do fine on much less. Until a few years ago you could do all your own wiring, I did this one and it was checked by a certified electrician.

Cabinets ar all flat packed and have to be fully assembled, worktops you DONT use saw you use a router to cut the mitres and have a template/jig to do them.

You missed my point you are comparing a house built in the UK with a Thai house. You don't need to have things checked here for building regs or have to be corgi registered.

I bet you don't get paid minimum wage like general builders here do, no you will make a very good living out of fitting bathrooms and kitchens as it makes good money in the UK.

You will do a good job because you are paid accordingly however a Thai gets paid peanuts so takes short cuts so all I am saying is Thai builders need to know what standards you want and give them more time to complete the job meaning paying a little more.

Trust me I didnt miss your point at all, Ill do a good job as I like seeing it well done, I couldnt walk past a job I did if it looked a mess, however after 25 years Im rtaher tired of it all.

Im not comparing houses in the Uk or Thailand totally different climate completely different way of construction, I like the no rules hahahah

[travelmann]

And I assume you have a valid work permit to carry out such beautifications.

You need a work permit to carry on things in and for your own house???

of course you do! you also need a work permit to have legally sex with your Mrs... if she's not the one doing all the work.

I can legally have sex with your Mrs??? Can u send a photo first pls

[GuestHouse]

More questions:

1] Would you like Thailand to emulate the west, as far as quality of work versus time/cost is concerned?

2] Would you like Thailand to fall victim to the requirements of 'shareholders', which will certainly have a negative effect upon the 'quality of life' enjoyed by many in Thailand?

3] Would you like work done to a good standard & pay accordingly?

4] Would you like a set of 'Thai Standards' to govern the work done?

5] Would you endorse a more stringent 'trade' education curriculum within Thailand?

1. It is my experience as an engineer working with Thai tradesmen that they have already matched the west in terms of quality, projects I've worked on in Thailand have all come in within the schedule while price is a governed by other factors in the economy. Thai tradesmen in the O&G business with the right experience are turning in salaries over Bht60K a month - The rewards are there and so are the skills.

2. I understand that most tradesmen in the West (UK/US/EU) work for SMEs - I really do not believe that the corporate structure applies to most Tradesmen back home.

3. As I've said earlier, I've never had a problem with the work done by Thai tradesmen and the price is always good.

4. There are standards governing work. And there should certainly be a quality standard in any contract, but this brings me back to the problem of Johnny Know Nothings failing to pick qualified tradesmen (falling for the local rice farmer recommended to them by people with a vested interest) and failing to manage the work they are having done.

5. Having read so many of your knowledgeable posts I'm only surprised that you are not aware that Thailand has a very stringent trade education curriculum - I'm not saying that it could not be improved, but that is true of everywhere.

[GuestHouse]

Duplicate Post Deleted

Edited October 19, 2010 by GuestHouse

[elkangorito]

My comments in blue.

More questions:

1] Would you like Thailand to emulate the west, as far as quality of work versus time/cost is concerned?

2] Would you like Thailand to fall victim to the requirements of 'shareholders', which will certainly have a negative effect upon the 'quality of life' enjoyed by many in Thailand?

3] Would you like work done to a good standard & pay accordingly?

4] Would you like a set of 'Thai Standards' to govern the work done?

5] Would you endorse a more stringent 'trade' education curriculum within Thailand?

1. It is my experience as an engineer working with Thai tradesmen that they have already matched the west in terms of quality, projects I've worked on in Thailand have all come in within the schedule while price is a governed by other factors in the economy. Thai tradesmen in the O&G business with the right experience are turning in salaries over Bht60K a month - The rewards are there and so are the skills.

This appears to be mainly relevant to the group of Thai tradespersons, who do not work on domestic installations.

I have worked with Thai electrical tradesmen in Australia & they were just as good as Australian electrical tradesmen. Notwithstanding this, there appears to be a clear distinction between:

a] Thai tradespersons who work for a large multinational and,

b] Thai tradespersons who work locally & usually cater for the domestic/commercial market.

A friend of mine (foreigner & electrician) employs Thai electricians in Thailand & he is very happy with their work. The work is classified as 'specialist' (not domestic). He has also told me that they would not be any good at domestic work (he knows their limits). Notwithstanding this, these Thai electricians could easily be 'brought up to standard' with regard to domestic electrical work, as they have the correct aptitude.

2. I understand that most tradesmen in the West (UK/US/EU) work for SMEs - I really do not believe that the corporate structure applies to most Tradesmen back home.

3. As I've said earlier, I've never had a problem with the work done by Thai tradesmen and the price is always good.

4. There are standards governing work. And there should certainly be a quality standard in any contract, but this brings me back to the problem of Johnny Know Nothings failing to pick qualified tradesmen (falling for the local rice farmer recommended to them by people with a vested interest) and failing to manage the work they are having done.

This highlights the dire need for 'Standards' & regulatory control in Thailand. Of course, corruption could easily circumvent this.

5. Having read so many of your knowledgeable posts I'm only surprised that you are not aware that Thailand has a very stringent trade education curriculum - I'm not saying that it could not be improved, but that is true of everywhere.

Please enlighten me with regard to 'Thailand has a very stringent trade education curriculum'.

Edited October 20, 2010 by elkangorito

[RasiMike]

The quality of services and tradesmen varies everywhere... we have the same problem where I'm working at the moment.

In our Thai case, after repeated changes on a 'fixed price 'and terms to build and fit out our house then several dead end negotiations with other tradies, we opted to build ourselves. We built a Thai/western style bungalow on poles, with labour from our family's village. I'm originally a carpenter/cabinetmaker by trade so the general building was the easy part and our 'extensive' family has limitless experience in building something or other. Doing it ourselves proved very rewarding for all involved and I believe it helped pave the way to better relationships and understanding between those who were originally in' them and us' mode. We did all the construction, plumbing, roofing and fitout ourselves and the glazing, aluminuim doors etc, were done by a local tradesman by the name of Suk. My father-in-law and the poo yai baan ( career builder) laid the blockwork and tiles for the bathroom and laundry....as a result I started doing it myself after that .

We hired a team of electrical contractors to install the breaker and wire up the entire house, thinking it best we pay professionals.... the next day I got electocuted! The in-laws, cousins etc that were watching thought it was very funny the way I was screaming and shaking with a grinder in one hand and a sheet of reo mesh in the other. The circuit breaker didn't even come close to tripping, so after a cool beer with ice and a lay down, we decided that it might be best to do everything ourselves. I sh_t myself that the general concensus was getting an electrical shock wasn't anything out of the ordinary for these guys.

Car servicing was always good...the full detail as standard inclusion is fantastic, though I once watched the village 'mechanic' repairing the unrepairable brake wheel cylinders on his songtaew....with silk his wife had just extracted from the worm! ....I won't go into it any more as the wife doesn't like me spreading rumours about her dad.

Getting a new frontloading washing machine serviced and working (on warranty) for more than a week proved impossible, so after 4 tries and a lot of swearing while hand washing, I pushed it outside and bought a new toploader.

I definitely have mixed feelings on the quality of Thai tradespeople. Some are excellent, professional and a pleasure to deal with, some are expensive and/or useless and some have the potential to be lethal!

On a whole the standards of workmanship are below what I find elsewhere. IMHO, this isn't because of stupidity or disinterest, but because of little or no proper training and the need to not second guess your boss.... just do as your told.

[Richb2004v2]

I think everything built in Thailand has the shelf live of about 5 years, or less for some aspects of their work.

[GuestHouse]

Please enlighten me with regard to 'Thailand has a very stringent trade education curriculum'.

I suggest you look at the training offered by the Austro-Thai Technical College, just south of Jomtien and the Satahip Technical College.

You've conceded that major industry manages to employ well educated, well trained tradesmen - That begs the question were do they come from.

I disagree there is a clear distinction between the industrial tradesmen and the domestic tradesmen - Rather that most expats do not employ tradesmen at all, they go for the cheapest or someone recommended (who was probably recommended because they are cheap).

I've employed domestic tradesmen with no complaints of their work, if I had I'd stop them working and change them for someone who knows what they are doing.

Again it's about knowing what service you are buying.

[cooperspale]

After going through a couple of thai contractors while renovating my house, with disastrous results I found a singaporean contractor who I am very happy with. Very professional, with good attention to detail, very reasonably priced and keeps well on top of his Thai workers. He has completed a number of jobs around my house and has fixed a few of the shabby jobs done by the previous contractors. He has just started the building of an inground swimming pool in our garden Am more than happy to recommend him to anyone looking for a contractor in bangkok. If anyone interested you can email me on [email protected] for his details.

The quality of services and tradesmen varies everywhere... we have the same problem where I'm working at the moment.

In our Thai case, after repeated changes on a 'fixed price 'and terms to build and fit out our house then several dead end negotiations with other tradies, we opted to build ourselves. We built a Thai/western style bungalow on poles, with labour from our family's village. I'm originally a carpenter/cabinetmaker by trade so the general building was the easy part and our 'extensive' family has limitless experience in building something or other. Doing it ourselves proved very rewarding for all involved and I believe it helped pave the way to better relationships and understanding between those who were originally in' them and us' mode. We did all the construction, plumbing, roofing and fitout ourselves and the glazing, aluminuim doors etc, were done by a local tradesman by the name of Suk. My father-in-law and the poo yai baan ( career builder) laid the blockwork and tiles for the bathroom and laundry....as a result I started doing it myself after that .

We hired a team of electrical contractors to install the breaker and wire up the entire house, thinking it best we pay professionals.... the next day I got electocuted! The in-laws, cousins etc that were watching thought it was very funny the way I was screaming and shaking with a grinder in one hand and a sheet of reo mesh in the other. The circuit breaker didn't even come close to tripping, so after a cool beer with ice and a lay down, we decided that it might be best to do everything ourselves. I sh_t myself that the general concensus was getting an electrical shock wasn't anything out of the ordinary for these guys.

Car servicing was always good...the full detail as standard inclusion is fantastic, though I once watched the village 'mechanic' repairing the unrepairable brake wheel cylinders on his songtaew....with silk his wife had just extracted from the worm! ....I won't go into it any more as the wife doesn't like me spreading rumours about her dad.

Getting a new frontloading washing machine serviced and working (on warranty) for more than a week proved impossible, so after 4 tries and a lot of swearing while hand washing, I pushed it outside and bought a new toploader.

I definitely have mixed feelings on the quality of Thai tradespeople. Some are excellent, professional and a pleasure to deal with, some are expensive and/or useless and some have the potential to be lethal!

On a whole the standards of workmanship are below what I find elsewhere. IMHO, this isn't because of stupidity or disinterest, but because of little or no proper training and the need to not second guess your boss.... just do as your told.

[JurgenG]

It depends a lot of your expectation.The problem is foreigners usually wont be happy with a job most Thai will accept. A local contractor once told me he charges foreigners more because they are harder to please.

Then you have to be realistic about the abilities of the local workers. My gf likes to pick nice design from foreign magazine, the problem is the workers have absolutely no knowledge on how to work with these new materials.

The main problem is people look for the good deal without making sure the company they hire has the ability to do the job

Edited November 11, 2010 by JurgenG

[ableguy]

Would the example of the dive boat that just caught fire in Phuket and was damaged to the extent of 10 million baht be an example of qualified tradesmen? One guy welding while another guy carrying fuel on board, Poof!

From the posts I read on this forum all Thais in Phuket are swindlers, cut throats and any thing else you can come up with so no shock to me about the fire, oh yes its also full of half dead and broke retired farangs.

PS who smell