Red Shirt Faction Leader Warns Some Red Shirts May Become Suicide Bombers

[SergeiY]

No, i am thinking of the Democrats.

And please don't come with that Thai rak Thai line logic. I have little interest in arguments on that lvl.

Why? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

No. I just think it is stupid.

[SergeiY]

No, i am thinking of the Democrats.

And please don't come with that Thai rak Thai line logic. I have little interest in arguments on that lvl.

Why? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

Hmmmmm OK we can't discuss a political party that has nationalism as it's name! There must certainly be an agenda here somewhere!

Ahh yes. And the Democrats name hints democracy - right? brilliant logic. you win.

[rubl]

Really?

And the Democrats, aren't they trying very hard to play the nationalistic line?

LOL ...

Um ... compared to Thaksin's Thai Rak Thai line? No ....

The Dems are fairly conservative but not even close to being "ultra-nationalistic". Perhaps you are thinking of the PAD? They are slightly more nationalistic than the average Thai, but still nothing like the line Thaksin drew (while stealing from his countrymen and selling to foreign countries!), strange that they bought into his line considering his actions isn't it?

No, i am thinking of the Democrats.

And please don't come with that Thai rak Thai line logic. I have little interest in arguments on that lvl.

Yes, lets forget about all the other issues and concentrate on bashing the Dem's. Who cares about k. Thaksin or his defunct TRT, or offspring PPP and PTP. Here and now, forget about the past and repeat the mistakes we made before. We're humans after all

[SergeiY]

Yes, lets forget about all the other issues and concentrate on bashing the Dem's. Who cares about k. Thaksin or his defunct TRT, or offspring PPP and PTP. Here and now, forget about the past and repeat the mistakes we made before. We're humans after all

Okay, deal. Do you have some evil man or glorious leader that we can compare somehow to Abhisit? Just drop some name, where everyone knows only little and the wikipedia version of it and say SAME SAME.

[rubl]

Yes, lets forget about all the other issues and concentrate on bashing the Dem's. Who cares about k. Thaksin or his defunct TRT, or offspring PPP and PTP. Here and now, forget about the past and repeat the mistakes we made before. We're humans after all

Okay, deal. Do you have some evil man or glorious leader that we can compare somehow to Abhisit? Just drop some name, where everyone knows only little and the wikipedia version of it and say SAME SAME.

Mikhail Gorbachev comes to mind somehow. A much misunderstood leader.

[SergeiY]

Okay, deal. Do you have some evil man or glorious leader that we can compare somehow to Abhisit? Just drop some name, where everyone knows only little and the wikipedia version of it and say SAME SAME.

Mikhail Gorbachev comes to mind somehow. A much misunderstood leader.

As in muched loved by foreigners, but so poorly misunderstood by the locals? Not really.

How about Tinky Winky from the teletubbies. Nobody can really say something bad about him.

[rubl]

Okay, deal. Do you have some evil man or glorious leader that we can compare somehow to Abhisit? Just drop some name, where everyone knows only little and the wikipedia version of it and say SAME SAME.

Mikhail Gorbachev comes to mind somehow. A much misunderstood leader.

As in muched loved by foreigners, but so poorly misunderstood by the locals? Not really.

How about Tinky Winky from the teletubbies. Nobody can really say something bad about him.

You asked 'can compare somehow', I gave you a name. Don't tell me now it's the wrong name. It simply suggests that whatever name some might give you, you will find a reason to reject it.

If you don't like conversations with others, please buy a mirror and talk to yourself. Mind you somehow I think you would disagree with yourself

[animatic]

Look up Pibul Songram, dictator of Thailand, on and off, from the late '30s to the '50s. There was a fellow who had a real personality cult going! Virtually all of the ultra-nationalistic habits of the Thais date from his terms in office. Personally, I think that Thaksin would like to be a 21st century version of old Pibul.

Oh yes this is spot on,

and BOTH sides now see that as a card to play

since it is endemic with in the culture.

But the Dems are not running on a personality cult.

Even if Mark has somethings going for him.

While the Reds have the Godhead Thaksin in full worship mode.

Much as Songkram was for so long.

[rubl]

(quote name='SergeiY' timestamp='1287935124' post='3977367')

No, i am thinking of the Democrats.

And please don't come with that Thai rak Thai line logic. I have little interest in arguments on that lvl.

(/quote)

Why? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

Hmmmmm OK we can't discuss a political party that has nationalism as it's name! There must certainly be an agenda here somewhere!

Ahh yes. And the Democrats name hints democracy - right? brilliant logic. you win.

Your name "SergeiY' hints at Russian or Slavic background - right? Brilliant logic. I win ? Don't bother to answer, I couldn't care less.

Just return to the OP, please.

Edited October 24, 2010 by rubl

[SergeiY]

Your name "SergeiY' hints at Russian or Slavic background - right? Brilliant logic. I win ? Don't bother to answer, I couldn't care less.

Yes, you win. one rubl = 100 kopeks.

[animatic]

No, i am thinking of the Democrats.

And please don't come with that Thai rak Thai line logic. I have little interest in arguments on that lvl.

Why? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

Exactly WB.

[animatic]

Okay, deal. Do you have some evil man or glorious leader that we can compare somehow to Abhisit? Just drop some name, where everyone knows only little and the wikipedia version of it and say SAME SAME.

Mikhail Gorbachev comes to mind somehow. A much misunderstood leader.

As in muched loved by foreigners, but so poorly misunderstood by the locals? Not really.

How about Tinky Winky from the teletubbies. Nobody can really say something bad about him.

Actually there was an extended movement to ban Teletubbies because they supposedly were a gay advocacy show trying to convert children early in age. Tinky Winky was the alleged prime mover in this farrago. He was so misunderstood!

And that lack of logic and myopic paranoia certainly parallels several instances of a certain posters agenda based argumentativeness.

Pfff who cares it's not of interest.

Edited October 24, 2010 by animatic

[SergeiY]

Okay, deal. Do you have some evil man or glorious leader that we can compare somehow to Abhisit? Just drop some name, where everyone knows only little and the wikipedia version of it and say SAME SAME.

Mikhail Gorbachev comes to mind somehow. A much misunderstood leader.

As in muched loved by foreigners, but so poorly misunderstood by the locals? Not really.

How about Tinky Winky from the teletubbies. Nobody can really say something bad about him.

Actually there was an extended movement to ban Teletubbies because they supposedly were a gay advocacy show trying to convert children early in age. Tinky Winky was the alleged prime mover in this farrago. He was so misunderstood!

Yes there will be always some retards, simpletons or just haters that come up with some very silly conspiracy theory, mostly one that is founded by their own phobias.

No need to repeat their nonsense here.

[rubl]

(quote name='SergeiY' timestamp='1287936245' post='3977400')

Okay, deal. Do you have some evil man or glorious leader that we can compare somehow to Abhisit? Just drop some name, where everyone knows only little and the wikipedia version of it and say SAME SAME.

(/quote)

Mikhail Gorbachev comes to mind somehow. A much misunderstood leader.

As in muched loved by foreigners, but so poorly misunderstood by the locals? Not really.

How about Tinky Winky from the teletubbies. Nobody can really say something bad about him.

Actually there was an extended movement to ban Teletubbies because they supposedly were a gay advocacy show trying to convert children early in age. Tinky Winky was the alleged prime mover in this farrago. He was so misunderstood!

Yes there will be always some retards, simpletons or just haters that come up with some very silly conspiracy theory, mostly one that is founded by their own phobias.

No need to repeat their nonsense here.

More in line with the OP 'may become suicide bombers' would be Otto and his crack suicide squad as seen near the end of 'Life of Brian'.

Always look on the bright side of life

[TAWP]

Your name "SergeiY' hints at Russian or Slavic background - right? Brilliant logic. I win ? Don't bother to answer, I couldn't care less.

Yes, you win. one rubl = 100 kopeks.

I think you'll find that 1 rubl = 100 SergeiY

[SergeiY]

Your name "SergeiY' hints at Russian or Slavic background - right? Brilliant logic. I win ? Don't bother to answer, I couldn't care less.

Yes, you win. one rubl = 100 kopeks.

I think you'll find that 1 rubl = 100 SergeiY

yawn.

[TAWP]

yawn.

Ah, I see that you have read your own posts too.

[SergeiY]

yawn.

Ah, I see that you have read your own posts too.

Yes. You win. You can have the rubl.

[rubl]

yawn.

Ah, I see that you have read your own posts too.

Yes. You win. You can have the rubl.

Come on Sergei, you don't want to play anymore ? Mind you, this was getting sillier and sillier. I guess I'm not the only one who has nothing better to do. Just heard thunder outside, soon some more rain to raise the level of the Chao Praya

[SergeiY]

Come on Sergei, you don't want to play anymore ? Mind you, this was getting sillier and sillier. I guess I'm not the only one who has nothing better to do. Just heard thunder outside, soon some more rain to raise the level of the Chao Praya

little bit rain and no rain and funny rain with sunshine. on and off.

I sense some lesser heavy traffic as usual today.

[hanuman1]

Come on Sergei, you don't want to play anymore ? Mind you, this was getting sillier and sillier. I guess I'm not the only one who has nothing better to do. Just heard thunder outside, soon some more rain to raise the level of the Chao Praya

little bit rain and no rain and funny rain with sunshine. on and off.

I sense some lesser heavy traffic as usual today.

I feel like I'm actually witnessing the death of a thread.....it's like a supernova in reverse.

[SergeiY]

Come on Sergei, you don't want to play anymore ? Mind you, this was getting sillier and sillier. I guess I'm not the only one who has nothing better to do. Just heard thunder outside, soon some more rain to raise the level of the Chao Praya

little bit rain and no rain and funny rain with sunshine. on and off.

I sense some lesser heavy traffic as usual today.

I feel like I'm actually witnessing the death of a thread.....it's like a supernova in reverse.

You just said that because it doesn't suit your agenda, right?

[TheyCallmeScooter]

But doesn't this 10 years of indoctrination simply sit alongside 70 odd years of indoctrination and control of information that has been going on largely unabated and indeed supported by the state? Thaksin has simply commandeered it, and made his message all the more enticing by putting a bit of hard cash alongside his words.

I am not saying that indeed a lot of people who blindly support the reds have been fed propaganda. However, it takes one to know one, and I can't help looking at the education system of the country and believe that in itself it is no unsubtle way, blatant propaganda too. Thaksin simply tapped into the mechanism that has been created to make Thai people sit up, pay attention and follow without asking too many complicated questions.

And now they're asking intelligent questions? Demanding their valuable opinions be taken into genuine consideration? Thaksin finally got them to ask the tough questions, did he? He got them to think for a change, rather than just march over the cliff blindly like lemmings?

Thaksin tells them Abhisit is the "lapdog of the elites". If he is, he's moonlighting as the planet's most generous socialist.

But they're not interested in such generosity. They want the guy who 'speaks' to them. In their language. Tells them:

1. All debt gone in 6 months!

2. Next 6 months, I'm gonna make a fortune so nobody has to work!

3. After that, I'm gonna make jobs for your children!

4. Worried about floods? Don't be. I'm gonna build a dam around the whole of Bangkok!

5. We're gonna share the wealth!

6. We're gonna eliminate poverty!

7. And every child will take their own computer to school!

Meanwhile, everyone bags Abhisit for not *more effectively* juggling the corrupt elected officials which Isan continues to send to Bangkok.

And some people have this crazy idea, that Thailand isn't ready for democracy.

The Reds fight and die for billionaire who shops in Louis Vuitton at the very moment they're launching suicide assaults at soldiers attempting to keep the peace. They're fighting for the end of the amataya elite double-standards. Those same Reds would fight and die to protect their King, who they adore. There is but a single apex of the alleged amataya pyramid.

They say they hate double-standards. Um...?

They are idiotic, there is no disputing that fact. Yes, it's an education issue. That's why Abhisit allotted B73 billion for schools this year. You can look up Thaksin's educational spending yourself. I'd wager B73 billion that you either already know the figure, in which case you're maliciously arguing for the validity of a fallacy; or that you didn't already know the figure, in which case you're ignorantly arguing for the validity of a fallacy. Oh look at that? I won the wager. You're either scum or stupid. Which one is it?

Hang on a tic. I'll solve that 'mystery' myself....

This is why the government today are finding it so hard to fight Thaksin politically. (1) Even Sonthi has come out and noted that the failure of the current government has been to not follow "populist" policies. (2) The people who support the reds will need a hel_l of a lot more convincing that pretty words on the TV. (3) The people who support Thaksin believe rightly or wrongly (4) that Thaksin is better for them than any other option.

it is just it took someone to realise that many of the people are sick and tired of ineffective two faced politicians, businessmen and civil servants who continually talk down to them and have largely pretended they don't exist other to plant crops. (5) Hardly rocket science in terms of marketing. (6)

Wow.

1) Wow. You are stupid. That is not why the government is struggling to fight Thaksin. Abhisit is struggling because he's fighting a battle for the loyalty of idiots who cannot even act in their own self-interest. Abhisit is struggling because he is ethical and uncorrupted, fighting a filthy rich tycoon who wrote ground-breaking textbooks on Excellence in Corruption. Abhisit is struggling because he is fighting far too cleanly against a very filthy, very dirty, very RICH fighter. Abhisit is fighting the losing battle of every frustrated idealist in the world, the battle to help idiots who cannot help themselves because human stupidity is a force powerful beyond belief.

Is it ironic 'justice' for the supposed elites, that the idiocy they contributed to is now being used against them? Sure. But what does that matter when the end result is the idiots are subjected to a few more generations of oppression and darkness and idiocy? Abhisit is trying to bring them Light. Thaksin is trying to keep them in the Dark. And the Red Propaganda's go-to argument for everything is "sure Thaksin is a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, y, z - I'm not defending his actions. But the elites have been a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, y, z for a century. That's why Thaksin is the man to shake things up. And this system needs a shake-up." Idiots.

2) Wow. You are stupid. A child understands what Sonthi is saying. Sonthi is saying exactly what I am saying. Abhisit is losing because rather than suppressing the poor with cycles of debt under the guise of "free money", rather than suppressing the poor with consumerism in lieu of education, rather than blowing taxpayer funds on vote-buying policies....he's (foolishly) been throwing more B at them than they have ever seen. It's just that he's SPENDING it, on welfare and their future. They don't want that. They want Thaksin to WASTE it on them, they're too stupidly selfish to care about their children's welfare on top of barricades in Live Fire Zones. Trust me, they aren't really at the stage where they will 'value' B73 billion / annum on their children's education.You idiot.

3) Wow. You are stupid. Read all of the above. The only "pretty words on TV" are the idiotic promises Thaksin makes to the rallies he funds. Abhisit is delivering them their future, in unfathomably generous / intelligent fashion. You idiot.

4) Wow. You are stupid. "rightly or wrongly" - you believe it is possible for support of Thaksin to be a "rightly" one? You idiot.

5) Wow. You are stupid. Ineffective. Two-faced politicians, businessmen and civil servants. Who talk down to them. They're sick of that, are they? All it took was for someone to realise it? That's all it took! For what? Before they finally learned they should fight and die for an Ineffective, Two-faced Politician, Businessman who Talks Down to Them? You idiot.

6) lol. If I had a single baht for every time an idiot uses the "hardly rocket science" cliché, when they are adding 2 +2 together and coming up with FAIL, I would be richer than Thaksin.

The good news is that you are likely not maliciously contemptible. It's merely your stupidity that produces contemptible arguments. At least we both agree on one thing: Isan's educational system and the resulting stupidity is the real issue that must be addressed.

Just out of interest, what Isan school did you attend?

Why? Because it doesn't suit your agenda?

Boom. Headshot.

No. I just think it is stupid.

And another headshot. To the same head.

[SergeiY]

^^

Jerusalem Post run recently a 'feature' on Robort Amsterdam. I hope you didn't miss it.

[rubl]

^^

Jerusalem Post run recently a 'feature' on Robort Amsterdam. I hope you didn't miss it.

Interesting article. I like this sentence about the 19th September gathering

"Defying a strict state of emergency decree still in place four months on, thousands of Red Shirts gathered in Bangkok’s posh commercial heart to mourn their movement’s martyrs. They lit votive candles at impromptu sidewalk shrines, released red balloons with question marks (“Where’s Justice?â€) into an afternoon sky of brooding monsoon clouds, and grabbed onto a giant spider web of sai sin sacred thread, dyed red, passed around in defiant camaraderie."

Didn't k. Sombat and the police agree on the rules for the gathering, where, when, etc.? Somehow that doesn't match with 'Defying a strict state of E.D.'

[SergeiY]

^^

Jerusalem Post run recently a 'feature' on Robort Amsterdam. I hope you didn't miss it.

Interesting article. I like this sentence about the 19th September gathering

"Defying a strict state of emergency decree still in place four months on, thousands of Red Shirts gathered in Bangkok’s posh commercial heart to mourn their movement’s martyrs. They lit votive candles at impromptu sidewalk shrines, released red balloons with question marks (“Where’s Justice?�) into an afternoon sky of brooding monsoon clouds, and grabbed onto a giant spider web of sai sin sacred thread, dyed red, passed around in defiant camaraderie."

Didn't k. Sombat and the police agree on the rules for the gathering, where, when, etc.? Somehow that doesn't match with 'Defying a strict state of E.D.'

idk

Scooter is the Amsterdam expert. Hope he will tell you.

Even in communist Russia some dissidents stayed alive to tell their story, why should it not be possible under the Thai Yuri Andropov?

[Thai at Heart]

To scooter:

Thanks for the response. I never said that Abhisit wasn't rolling out policies to benefit the poor. I was simply trying to give an opinion on how Thaksin became such a successful Thai politician.

Abhisit is fighting against successful propaganda and fervent support, and the message is not yet (if it ever will) getting out there. The personality cult of Thaksin is still strong in many areas. How I believe it came to be, I tried to explain in my post. He successfully tapped a mechanism that has been set up in Thailand.

To a great degree, I do believe he got his supporters to blindly follow him. He did form the first ever majority government in the country's political history. People did die in support of the reds. A tragic sacrifice. There hasn't been some astonishing reduction in votes to his parties in the traditional strongholds, so people are still following him despite 5 years of exclusion and convictions. Are Thaksin and the red leadership a charlatans? Of course they are, but it doesn't matter what I say personally. Meanwhile, the Dems struggle to keep BJT under control and at the trough.

So where to from here? There is no way for the Dems to even start to engage a discussion in Isaan or the North partly because of the militant attitude of the reds. But did they ever? There will be an election some time, and will Abhisit's/the Dems largesse be rewarded with rural support? I doubt it.

It isn't my job to get the word out to the people about policies, it is the current government and so far, they aren't making much of a fist of it. They have every single piece of the national media in their hands, and yet their message doesn't fly. This is politics and if there is one thing that is extremely apparent, is that you don't have to tell the truth, you just have to be believed. Many stronger political systems have been commandeered by lesser political beasts than Thaksin.

[chantorn]

You cannot out bid Thaskin.

What ever Mark give to buy vote (indirectly).

Thaksin could say "Vote for my proxy", "and I'll double what ever is the current offer by Mark".

[bulmercke]

To scooter:

Thanks for the response. I never said that Abhisit wasn't rolling out policies to benefit the poor. I was simply trying to give an opinion on how Thaksin became such a successful Thai politician.

Abhisit is fighting against successful propaganda and fervent support, and the message is not yet (if it ever will) getting out there. The personality cult of Thaksin is still strong in many areas. How I believe it came to be, I tried to explain in my post. He successfully tapped a mechanism that has been set up in Thailand.

To a great degree, I do believe he got his supporters to blindly follow him. He did form the first ever majority government in the country's political history. People did die in support of the reds. A tragic sacrifice. There hasn't been some astonishing reduction in votes to his parties in the traditional strongholds, so people are still following him despite 5 years of exclusion and convictions. Are Thaksin and the red leadership a charlatans? Of course they are, but it doesn't matter what I say personally. Meanwhile, the Dems struggle to keep BJT under control and at the trough.

So where to from here? There is no way for the Dems to even start to engage a discussion in Isaan or the North partly because of the militant attitude of the reds. But did they ever? There will be an election some time, and will Abhisit's/the Dems largesse be rewarded with rural support? I doubt it.

It isn't my job to get the word out to the people about policies, it is the current government and so far, they aren't making much of a fist of it. They have every single piece of the national media in their hands, and yet their message doesn't fly. This is politics and if there is one thing that is extremely apparent, is that you don't have to tell the truth, you just have to be believed. Many stronger political systems have been commandeered by lesser political beasts than Thaksin.

QUOTE(Thai at heart):"There will be an election some time...."

Will there? I'm not so sure. The Democrats never do particularly well and are seldom - if ever - able to form a government outright without the assistance of some of the smaller coalition parties. My thinking is that the next election will be indefinitely delayed because of the supposed threat of "violent tumult" occurring as a consequence of a general election being called.

[rubl]

^^

Jerusalem Post run recently a 'feature' on Robort Amsterdam. I hope you didn't miss it.

Interesting article. I like this sentence about the 19th September gathering

"Defying a strict state of emergency decree still in place four months on, thousands of Red Shirts gathered in Bangkok’s posh commercial heart to mourn their movement’s martyrs. They lit votive candles at impromptu sidewalk shrines, released red balloons with question marks (“Where’s Justice?��) into an afternoon sky of brooding monsoon clouds, and grabbed onto a giant spider web of sai sin sacred thread, dyed red, passed around in defiant camaraderie."

Didn't k. Sombat and the police agree on the rules for the gathering, where, when, etc.? Somehow that doesn't match with 'Defying a strict state of E.D.'

idk

Scooter is the Amsterdam expert. Hope he will tell you.

Even in communist Russia some dissidents stayed alive to tell their story, why should it not be possible under the Thai Yuri Andropov?

Rhetorical question, dear chap.

As for the Russia link, I don't think it is related. Here in Thailand almost all 'dissidents' stayed alive. Only some militants died including the renegade general. Also some protesters who didn't want to disperse, really innocent bystanders, some army personel, a few policemen. Thai Y. Andropov? Didn't know Thailand had something like a KGB, also no president of a polit bureau. No known Thai person can be matched, or it should be one of the UDD leaders, some had their base training in Vietnam in the 70's.