Russia Fears Viktor Bout Could Reveal Secrets

[SergeiY]

If you could read you would see that I said...

If. You. Love Your. Country So Much ... Go Back. There!

Good idea is to read first...then post!

Yeah, no problem if you go back to that country you love so much. have a nice trip home. Bye bye.

But don't force other people to go there if they don't want. thats all.

[britmaveric]

Swedes have always been fence sitters - too easy to judge when you are not in the game.

[brahmburgers]

We would all just love the Amerikans if they just stayed where they came from!

Tiger

Sounds good when shouted from the roof of your your garage-turned pumpernickel cookie factory. But when the shitites hit the fan, Americans are who most of the world turns to when things get tough. Happened in two world wars, ....happened with Kuwait and Bosnia in the 90's. The biggest and most generous benefactors the world has ever known are Americans. You'd probably like Americans to stay 'where they came from' ...does that mean in the USA or in one or more of the 170 countries they and their ancestors hailed from? It might be tough for the American child of an Ethiopian / Norwegian to stay where he/she comes from. Where would that be, perchance?

Sounds like the Swedish Tiger is jealous, but, because he can't easily be American, he puts down what he can't attain. Similar things happen in other places which make a lot of noise about hating Americans. If given the tiniest opportunity to get a US Green Card, they stampede and fight with each other for the privilege.

Edited October 17, 2010 by brahmburgers

[IAMSOBAD]

Commies like to change the subject from Bout to USA bashing.

Sweden doesnt exist in history since the Viking except ABBA and Bjorg.

Toodles Tiger

[SergeiY]

We would all just love the Amerikans if they just stayed where they came from!

Tiger

Sounds good when shouted from the roof of your your garage-turned pumpernickel cookie factory. But when the shitites hit the fan, Americans are who most of the world turns to when things get tough. Happened in two world wars, ....happened with Kuwait and Bosnia in the 90's. The biggest and most generous benefactors the world has ever known are Americans. You'd probably like Americans to stay 'where they came from' ...does that mean in the USA or in one or more of the 170 countries they and their ancestors hailed from? It might be tough for the American child of an Ethiopian / Norwegian to stay where he/she comes from. Where would that be, perchance?

:jerk:

Big mouth - small _____(insert a body part of your choice).

It just mean you should mind your own business and don't try to be the world police.

[IAMSOBAD]

Tiger is a history buff?

Does he bash Hitler?

Stalin?

Mao?

Mongols?

Vikings?

What a windbag! Saab Saab Sob!

[IAMSOBAD]

This thread should close before these guys put the Berlin Wall and Iron Curtain back up. Thats what they want.

[SergeiY]

Similar things happen in other places which make a lot of noise about hating Americans. If given the tiniest opportunity to get a US Green Card, they stampede and fight with each other for the privilege.

One more silly American. ...

FYI: This topic is about someone who has no interest in going to the USA. Accept that. Not everyone want to go there.

Is that so difficult to understand? And if don't want to go he should not forced to go.

[britmaveric]

^Bout is locked up I am sure he does not want to be, but he really doesn't have a say in it. If yanks want him - he will have to go full stop.

[globalmenace]

Live your illusion, toothless tiger. Sweden is irrelevant to the world. Why do the best international students and scholars want to work on US campuses?

Your solid education is sadly lacking. Let me guess, Swede undergrad degree or early-leaver? History?

Pathetic delusional joke are you, sayeth Yoda.

[EnSvenskTiger]

As long as Thailand takes the responsibility and makes the correct decision regarding veteran Bout I'm happy.

[/url]<A name=articleText2>In the US Ben Bernanke is already “sympathetic to more easing “! And that means that soon we will see the tail of the Americans going home. Great!

Master Mariner

Captain

Tiger

PS! Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me!

[IAMSOBAD]

America drilled the hole...built the transport vehicle and saved 33 Chilean miners from certain death.

What did Russia and Sweden do?

Bout broke international laws of weapons selling.

So he needs to stand trial and tell his story.

[metisdead]

Similar things happen in other places which make a lot of noise about hating Americans. If given the tiniest opportunity to get a US Green Card, they stampede and fight with each other for the privilege.

One more silly American. ...

FYI: This topic is about someone who has no interest in going to the USA. Accept that. Not everyone want to go there.

Is that so difficult to understand? And if don't want to go he should not forced to go.

In this case, it is not whether or not he has any interest in going there. He (maybe) doesn't have a choice. Accept that.

Signed,

Another Silly American

[geriatrickid]

This is one of those threads where the point is lost when everyone starts going off on tangents pushing their own political agends. Here's a reality check.

1. Mr. Bout was implicated in bloodshed long before the current "Russian" linked allegations arose. Operating from his base in the U.A.E., Mr. Bout supplied every recent major African conflict with weapons contrary to international sanctions, including those agreed to by Russia and the USA. His most reprehensible activities were in Central African Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone, and the Sudan. Without Mr. Bout's activities, millions upon millions of lives would not have been impacted by civil war and genocide. As these African nations heal and put the conflict behind them, the victims cry out for justice. Justice for many will occur when Mr. Bout is brought to trial. These African nations have no clout, no money to buy justice so they turned to the west and ask for assistance.

2. Mr. Bout was charged in Liberia, but when the time came for justice to be served, Mr. Bout was able to avoid the charges so that they eventually were dropped. He had solid connections with the U.A.E.royal family and officials such as Sultan Hamad Said Nassir al Suwaidi, advisor to the ruler of Sharjah, and allegedly a key investor in one of Mr. Bout's principal comanies. Mr. Bout successfully laid low in the U.A.E. and relied on the fact that no one would take on the wealthy oil rich state. The west couldn't afford to upset an important arab state, especially one that provided covert military bases. Russia wasn't about to upset an important friend in the arab world. The africans had no clout against the Islamic block at the UN that successfully blocked any and all atempts at justice.

3. It was at one hoped that the matter just go away. The Bulgarians had been trying to mormalize their relations with the west and become a part of the EU. How would it look if the fact that almost all of Mr. Bout's weapons were sourced from Bulgaria?The Ukraine needed supprt from the west as it had its own dispute with Russia. However, information soon came out of both countries that was given to western european countries. Those countries as much as they wanted to hush up the information were faced with many angry human rights and refugee groups along with well established NGOs demanding that something be done against people like Mr. Bout.

4. 9/11 changed alot of things in the world, specifically how terrorism is treated. Despite all the sword waving and rhetoric exchanged between Russia and the USA, the fact of the matter is that they do cooperate with each other. There are groups in both governments that wanted the Bout affair to go away, and it would have, had Bout not been so stupid and greedy and tried to supply Columbian narco terrorists with weapons. Had the idiot not tried one last time to milk the cash cow, all would have been forgotten. The fool fell for a US sting operation.

This isn't about the USA being a socialist state. (It is not.)

This isn't about Russia being a totalitarian state. (It is not.)

It's all about the arrest and potential prosecution of a greedy man that is responsible for the illegal supply and distribution of weapons used in some of the world's recent horrific wars and genocides.

[LaoPo]

..

what a childish discussion this topic has become, ranting against each other about being or not anti-American, anti-Russian or anti-Swedish.

Now the drilling (spectacular and welcome!) of the shaft, rescuing Chilean miners even entered the room. Maybe the drilling of the longest tunnel in the world of an unbelievable 57 Km by the Swiss should become part of the discussion ?

It looks more like a nationalistic topic rather than the discussion about Russian fears that Bout could reveal secrets.

This whole "Bout" case in Thailand should have been a non-issue if a secret intelligence unit of a foreign country (USA) wouldn't have lured another countries' citizen (Russia) on a third (Thailand) countries' soil, speculating the arrest would be a peace of cake.

The fact that Bout has a notorious name in the worldwide weapons industry is secondary importance.

The most important point in the Bout case is that the first mentioned country would NEVER allow another countries' intelligence service, operating on American soil, (having) arrest(ing) a third countries' arms dealer and let a private plane land on their soil, putting him in that plane.

Now, the CIA is very infamous for having illegally transport suspects in the 9/11 aftermath from foreign soils into third countries and have them tortured.

Another important question is...would the US accept that an arms dealer from American nationality (and they have many!) would be arrested on Russian, Thai soil or maybe Japanese soil or German or Italian (...think a little!) soil, upon the request of a third nation?

I can give you the answer:

NEVER!

So, please let's stop the hypocrisy by those who "allow" the American action on Thai soil, whether they're American themselves or not.

But, If you're American, be fair and not so utterly nationalistic, knowing at the same time that your own US is by far the largest weapons manufacturer and seller in the entire world and that American bullets kill most people in the world also........

LaoPo

[SergeiY]

..

what a childish discussion this topic has become, ranting against each other about being or not anti-American, anti-Russian or anti-Swedish.

Now the drilling (spectacular and welcome!) of the shaft, rescuing Chilean miners even entered the room. Maybe the drilling of the longest tunnel in the world of an unbelievable 57 Km by the Swiss should become part of the discussion ?

It looks more like a nationalistic topic rather than the discussion about Russian fears that Bout could reveal secrets.

This whole "Bout" case in Thailand should have been a non-issue if a secret intelligence unit of a foreign country (USA) wouldn't have lured another countries' citizen (Russia) on a third (Thailand) countries' soil, speculating the arrest would be a peace of cake.

The fact that Bout has a notorious name in the worldwide weapons industry is secondary importance.

The most important point in the Bout case is that the first mentioned country would NEVER allow another countries' intelligence service, operating on American soil, (having) arrest(ing) a third countries' arms dealer and let a private plane land on their soil, putting him in that plane.

Now, the CIA is very infamous for having illegally transport suspects in the 9/11 aftermath from foreign soils into third countries and have them tortured.

Another important question is...would the US accept that an arms dealer from American nationality (and they have many!) would be arrested on Russian, Thai soil or maybe Japanese soil or German or Italian (...think a little!) soil, upon the request of a third nation?

I can give you the answer:

NEVER!

So, please let's stop the hypocrisy by those who "allow" the American action on Thai soil, whether they're American themselves or not.

But, If you're American, be fair and not so utterly nationalistic, knowing at the same time that your own US is by far the largest weapons manufacturer and seller in the entire world and that American bullets kill most people in the world also........

LaoPo

I give a Bingo to that.

[EnSvenskTiger]

..

what a childish discussion this topic has become, ranting against each other about being or not anti-American, anti-Russian or anti-Swedish.

Now the drilling (spectacular and welcome!) of the shaft, rescuing Chilean miners even entered the room. Maybe the drilling of the longest tunnel in the world of an unbelievable 57 Km by the Swiss should become part of the discussion ?

It looks more like a nationalistic topic rather than the discussion about Russian fears that Bout could reveal secrets.

This whole "Bout" case in Thailand should have been a non-issue if a secret intelligence unit of a foreign country (USA) wouldn't have lured another countries' citizen (Russia) on a third (Thailand) countries' soil, speculating the arrest would be a peace of cake.

The fact that Bout has a notorious name in the worldwide weapons industry is secondary importance.

The most important point in the Bout case is that the first mentioned country would NEVER allow another countries' intelligence service, operating on American soil, (having) arrest(ing) a third countries' arms dealer and let a private plane land on their soil, putting him in that plane.

Now, the CIA is very infamous for having illegally transport suspects in the 9/11 aftermath from foreign soils into third countries and have them tortured.

Another important question is...would the US accept that an arms dealer from American nationality (and they have many!) would be arrested on Russian, Thai soil or maybe Japanese soil or German or Italian (...think a little!) soil, upon the request of a third nation?

I can give you the answer:

NEVER!

So, please let's stop the hypocrisy by those who "allow" the American action on Thai soil, whether they're American themselves or not.

But, If you're American, be fair and not so utterly nationalistic, knowing at the same time that your own US is by far the largest weapons manufacturer and seller in the entire world and that American bullets kill most people in the world also........

LaoPo

I give a Bingo to that.

1+

Tiger

[metisdead]

This is one of those threads where the point is lost when everyone starts going off on tangents pushing their own political agends. Here's a reality check.

1. Mr. Bout was implicated in bloodshed long before the current "Russian" linked allegations arose. Operating from his base in the U.A.E., Mr. Bout supplied every recent major African conflict with weapons contrary to international sanctions, including those agreed to by Russia and the USA. His most reprehensible activities were in Central African Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone, and the Sudan. Without Mr. Bout's activities, millions upon millions of lives would not have been impacted by civil war and genocide. As these African nations heal and put the conflict behind them, the victims cry out for justice. Justice for many will occur when Mr. Bout is brought to trial. These African nations have no clout, no money to buy justice so they turned to the west and ask for assistance.

2. Mr. Bout was charged in Liberia, but when the time came for justice to be served, Mr. Bout was able to avoid the charges so that they eventually were dropped. He had solid connections with the U.A.E.royal family and officials such as Sultan Hamad Said Nassir al Suwaidi, advisor to the ruler of Sharjah, and allegedly a key investor in one of Mr. Bout's principal comanies. Mr. Bout successfully laid low in the U.A.E. and relied on the fact that no one would take on the wealthy oil rich state. The west couldn't afford to upset an important arab state, especially one that provided covert military bases. Russia wasn't about to upset an important friend in the arab world. The africans had no clout against the Islamic block at the UN that successfully blocked any and all atempts at justice.

3. It was at one hoped that the matter just go away. The Bulgarians had been trying to mormalize their relations with the west and become a part of the EU. How would it look if the fact that almost all of Mr. Bout's weapons were sourced from Bulgaria?The Ukraine needed supprt from the west as it had its own dispute with Russia. However, information soon came out of both countries that was given to western european countries. Those countries as much as they wanted to hush up the information were faced with many angry human rights and refugee groups along with well established NGOs demanding that something be done against people like Mr. Bout.

4. 9/11 changed alot of things in the world, specifically how terrorism is treated. Despite all the sword waving and rhetoric exchanged between Russia and the USA, the fact of the matter is that they do cooperate with each other. There are groups in both governments that wanted the Bout affair to go away, and it would have, had Bout not been so stupid and greedy and tried to supply Columbian narco terrorists with weapons. Had the idiot not tried one last time to milk the cash cow, all would have been forgotten. The fool fell for a US sting operation.

This isn't about the USA being a socialist state. (It is not.)

This isn't about Russia being a totalitarian state. (It is not.)

It's all about the arrest and potential prosecution of a greedy man that is responsible for the illegal supply and distribution of weapons used in some of the world's recent horrific wars and genocides.

I agree with this.

[globalmenace]

..

what a childish discussion this topic has become, ranting against each other about being or not anti-American, anti-Russian or anti-Swedish.

Now the drilling (spectacular and welcome!) of the shaft, rescuing Chilean miners even entered the room. Maybe the drilling of the longest tunnel in the world of an unbelievable 57 Km by the Swiss should become part of the discussion ?

It looks more like a nationalistic topic rather than the discussion about Russian fears that Bout could reveal secrets.

This whole "Bout" case in Thailand should have been a non-issue if a secret intelligence unit of a foreign country (USA) wouldn't have lured another countries' citizen (Russia) on a third (Thailand) countries' soil, speculating the arrest would be a peace of cake.

The fact that Bout has a notorious name in the worldwide weapons industry is secondary importance.

The most important point in the Bout case is that the first mentioned country would NEVER allow another countries' intelligence service, operating on American soil, (having) arrest(ing) a third countries' arms dealer and let a private plane land on their soil, putting him in that plane.

Now, the CIA is very infamous for having illegally transport suspects in the 9/11 aftermath from foreign soils into third countries and have them tortured.

Another important question is...would the US accept that an arms dealer from American nationality (and they have many!) would be arrested on Russian, Thai soil or maybe Japanese soil or German or Italian (...think a little!) soil, upon the request of a third nation?

I can give you the answer:

NEVER!

So, please let's stop the hypocrisy by those who "allow" the American action on Thai soil, whether they're American themselves or not.

But, If you're American, be fair and not so utterly nationalistic, knowing at the same time that your own US is by far the largest weapons manufacturer and seller in the entire world and that American bullets kill most people in the world also........

LaoPo

Doesn't wash Mr. Concilliation. You just posted yet another anti-American screed, albiet in a velvet fist.

[IAMSOBAD]

Heres the fact...

BOUT will go to America

Be found guilty

And in the process he will unveil Russias nasty little Arms Network.

USA 1

Morons-0

[craigt3365]

Unfortunately, there are two posters here who just don't get it. Childish comments. And for sure bigots. Sad...

Like previously mentioned, America is a melting pot of every country in the world. Including Russia and Sweden. If you hate American's, then you also hate some of your countrymen. Personally, I am part native American. So if you want to hate an American, I am about as authentic as they come.

Now, please back to the topic and let's stop being childish...

LaoPo: I hear ya, but the biggest arms dealers in the US are corporations. Working within the legal system. If they work outside the legal system, it is either part of some black op affair, or it is illegal. And usually, these people get caught. Correct me if I am wrong, but have you heard of somebody like Bout doing this inside the US? Or the UK? Not at all.

The American armed forces don't make their own weapons, Lockheed, Boeing, Grumman, GD, etc., produce the arms that are then purchased by American armed forces AND foreign countries...and most sales have to be approved by congress...and many don't get approved. In a previous life, I supported GD...was there every day. And sweat bullets (HA!) while sales were approved by congress as it had a huge effect on my salary!!!!!

[Flatouthruthefog]

Heres the fact...

BOUT will go to America

Be found guilty

And in the process he will unveil Russias nasty little Arms Network.

USA 1

Morons-0

Your posts are mainly SoGood, IAMSOBAD, but this prediction is SOoptimistic.

The man knows so much. Too much for the comfort of both parties.

As another poster said, if he arrives anywhere, it will be in a box.

And as another poster said loooonnnng ago, "I wouldn't fly out of Thailand on the same plane as him."

He is an accident looking for somewhere to happen, and i for one have NO sympathy with him or anyone involved.

[IAMSOBAD]

Great line about being on the same plane as Bout to the US!

Thank you

[LomSak27]

and that American bullets kill most people in the world also

Laopao I really don't care what you and the other singlet wearers (wifebeater T's for the yanks) like to jaw about when swilling Leo. However I do not like airheadedness, that Homer-Nigel, "Doh!" approach to the world we live in.

As such do you know what the two most lethal wars have been since WWII?

The Congo from 94 to present

The Sudanese Civil war - 84-03 but extending that to Darfur.

Now if you set your bottle of Leo down for a second it's relatively easy to figure this one out. Are m 16's used in quantity by either of the sides in these wars? Rhetorical question and I am sorry but come on I expect better even if all you are doing is trying to give a bollocking to seppos.

[globalmenace]

Heres the fact...

BOUT will go to America

Be found guilty

And in the process he will unveil Russias nasty little Arms Network.

USA 1

Morons-0

Not that it will do any good, evil-doers and their apologists never give up.

Did you guys read geriatrickid's succinct summation of the facts? Take another read, it is true and well documented as you will see once we get this devil back for a fair trial.

Of course the Russians are pissed, they are putting tremendous pressure on Thailand to avoid this debacle. But Thailand will stick with us.,

Oh, LP...check with Guiness, 11,000 + posts has to be some sort of world record. A weird and very strange one.

[Flatouthruthefog]

Great line about being on the same plane as Bout to the US!

Thank you

Thank YOU! Between us, to quote an American phrase, I reckon we are 'bang on the money'!

Double meaning intended, of course.

[SergeiY]

This is one of those threads where the point is lost when everyone starts going off on tangents pushing their own political agends. Here's a reality check.

1. Mr. Bout was implicated in bloodshed long before the current "Russian" linked allegations arose. Operating from his base in the U.A.E., Mr. Bout supplied every recent major African conflict with weapons contrary to international sanctions, including those agreed to by Russia and the USA. His most reprehensible activities were in Central African Republic, Democratic Republic of Congo, Equatorial Guinea, Liberia, Sierra Leone, and the Sudan. Without Mr. Bout's activities, millions upon millions of lives would not have been impacted by civil war and genocide. As these African nations heal and put the conflict behind them, the victims cry out for justice. Justice for many will occur when Mr. Bout is brought to trial. These African nations have no clout, no money to buy justice so they turned to the west and ask for assistance.

2. Mr. Bout was charged in Liberia, but when the time came for justice to be served, Mr. Bout was able to avoid the charges so that they eventually were dropped. He had solid connections with the U.A.E.royal family and officials such as Sultan Hamad Said Nassir al Suwaidi, advisor to the ruler of Sharjah, and allegedly a key investor in one of Mr. Bout's principal comanies. Mr. Bout successfully laid low in the U.A.E. and relied on the fact that no one would take on the wealthy oil rich state. The west couldn't afford to upset an important arab state, especially one that provided covert military bases. Russia wasn't about to upset an important friend in the arab world. The africans had no clout against the Islamic block at the UN that successfully blocked any and all atempts at justice.

3. It was at one hoped that the matter just go away. The Bulgarians had been trying to mormalize their relations with the west and become a part of the EU. How would it look if the fact that almost all of Mr. Bout's weapons were sourced from Bulgaria?The Ukraine needed supprt from the west as it had its own dispute with Russia. However, information soon came out of both countries that was given to western european countries. Those countries as much as they wanted to hush up the information were faced with many angry human rights and refugee groups along with well established NGOs demanding that something be done against people like Mr. Bout.

4. 9/11 changed alot of things in the world, specifically how terrorism is treated. Despite all the sword waving and rhetoric exchanged between Russia and the USA, the fact of the matter is that they do cooperate with each other. There are groups in both governments that wanted the Bout affair to go away, and it would have, had Bout not been so stupid and greedy and tried to supply Columbian narco terrorists with weapons. Had the idiot not tried one last time to milk the cash cow, all would have been forgotten. The fool fell for a US sting operation.

This isn't about the USA being a socialist state. (It is not.)

This isn't about Russia being a totalitarian state. (It is not.)

It's all about the arrest and potential prosecution of a greedy man that is responsible for the illegal supply and distribution of weapons used in some of the world's recent horrific wars and genocides.

Here's a short reality check:

The USA is NOT the world police

[LomSak27]

Of course the Russians are pissed, they are putting tremendous pressure on Thailand to avoid this debacle. But Thailand will stick with us.,

Thailand will stick to the side that gives them the most money. I for one do not feel that the US should give MFN trade status just to get Vic. If Thailand wants to give them to the Russia, so be it. Of course Thaksin might want to buy a Condo on Maui too.

What goes around comes around.

[geriatrickid]

But, If you're American, be fair and not so utterly nationalistic, knowing at the same time that your own US is by far the largest weapons manufacturer and seller in the entire world and that American bullets kill most people in the world also........ LaoPo

That's a crock of sh*t.

Either you are being intentionally misleading or are so biased in your views that you do not want to acknowledge the truth. The issue here is the illegal sale of ordinance into regions subject to strict embargo. Yes, so the USA is one of the largest arms manufacturers in the world. What's your point? The numbers are bloated because of the nature of goods manufactured and sold. The USA recently signed a deal with Brazil for the sale of 36 F-18SH at $US7billion. When you are selling big ticket items like that, the numbers are going to reflect it. When the EU's EADS sells equipment to countries, this inflates the numbers posted for the UK, France and Germany. The UK BAE is a major supplier of air defense systems that are worth billions in export sales. I do not recall BAE's anti missile defense system being deployed in Sierra Leone. The Chinese total value is understated. Just as China doesn't release complete numbers on its defense budget, it does not release complete data on its arms exports. Strangely, you ignore that and instead stick to the tired position that America is the evil leader. Well, it's not. The world markets changed after the west introduced transparency and compliance to arms sales. The world's genocidal maniacs prefer to deal with the North Koreans, Chinese and Brizilians of this world, relying on Swiss and Luxembourg money centers to facilitate the transactions.

The fact of the matter is that there are strict rules in place in the west for the export of arms. It is subject to intense scrutiny. The numbers posted for the western countries and even for Russia are inflated because of legitimate contracts. Mr. Bout was sourcing most of his weapons from Bulgaria and the Ukraine, not the USA and not the EU.

It is because of people like you that the key culprits in today's supply of regional wars get a free pass. Brazil and China are having a field day supplying arms. And yet, from you comes, oh its the American's fault. Why aren't you pointing your stubby finger of condemnation at the Ukraine and Bulgaria? China still manufactures landmines available for export. Where do you think the majority of landmines planted on the Cambodian border in the last 25 years originated? Who do you think supplied them to Laos? Where does Pakistan get its landmines? Do you think India's growing arms industry isn't trading with Burma? Yea, so you keep blaming the USA. Meanwhile, the countries that have blood on their hands are laughing all the way to the bank while people like you provide cover.

[globalmenace]

Here's a short reality check:

The USA is NOT the world police

YAWN....you sure make us sleepy with the thing you might say.