David Cameron'S Thai Christmas Getaway

[stander]

I think that all the British retirees here whose only source of income is the state pension need to take a long hard look at themselves.

If you did not have the foresight to plan additional incomes then really you only have yourself to blame and probably your best bet is to return to the motherland and get sucking on that welfare tit.

Nothing sucks like socialism.

For sure you have missed the point being made totally but as it seems you are one of Maggie Thatchers young entrepreneurs, I will leave it at that.

Yes I think you had better.

[JetsetBkk]

The way things are going in LOS Mark had better be looking for the army camp that serves the best grub.

I can imagine him, Prem and David playing charades on Chrimbo afternoon.

" It's a film.... 4 words.... First word The.... Last word I....."

I think I know that one!

[cmsally]

While I'm not a fan of whining or relying on the state. It is a legitimate point; that the majority of people are here in Thailand relying on extension of visas rather that being given a passport/nationality. As such they are at the whim of the authorities as to whether they are able to remain in the country. There are also the issues of state healthcare and benefits which of course comes into play too.

Anyway there can sometimes be a fine line between whining and discussion. I'm glad that I was brought up in the UK where we can express our opinions, strive to be different rather than conformist, and generally take ourselves not too seriously.

Back to the subject: I hope he will be on a private holiday rather than paraded around by the Thai press. Maybe he'll even bring a new Ambassador with him. Or do we already have one?

[samran]

While I'm not a fan of whining or relying on the state. It is a legitimate point; that the majority of people are here in Thailand relying on extension of visas rather that being given a passport/nationality. As such they are at the whim of the authorities as to whether they are able to remain in the country. There are also the issues of state healthcare and benefits which of course comes into play too.

Anyway there can sometimes be a fine line between whining and discussion. I'm glad that I was brought up in the UK where we can express our opinions, strive to be different rather than conformist, and generally take ourselves not too seriously.

Back to the subject: I hope he will be on a private holiday rather than paraded around by the Thai press. Maybe he'll even bring a new Ambassador with him. Or do we already have one?

OK...lets discuss.

Why should someone who moves to Thailand simply be able to get PR and citizenship simply by hanging about and serving their time, as is the model in most of the west?

I'd also like your opinion on why the routes to PR and Citizenship (ie working, making a contribution, paying a bit of tax and speaking childrens level Thai) is so onerous?

Edited October 18, 2010 by samran

[stander]

Thailand is barely able to take care of its own citizens, so why on earth would they make it easy for a foreigner to obtain PR or citizenship.

The foreigners who live here and are struggling with limited income must not be allowed to become burden on Thailand.

I think each and every foreigner should be able to support themselves and I would double the amount required for all visa catergories.

[cmsally]

I never said that the requirements in Thailand were onerous, but I was bringing up the fact that the situation for those in Thailand was mostly very different than those that go and live in the UK for any length of time. Whatever the merits or demerits that is pretty much how it stands.

The fact that there are so many queuing up to get into the UK seems it is pretty obvious its easy to milk the system.

As regards Thailand if they have those requirements for PR or passport, that is fine, I never said it wasn't . As you mentioned the 2 models are different.

That was my original point, to point out the dissimilarity of the 2 scenarios not to say that one was wrong and one was right.

[samran]

double post

Edited October 18, 2010 by samran

[samran]

Thailand is barely able to take care of its own citizens, so why on earth would they make it easy for a foreigner to obtain PR or citizenship.

The foreigners who live here and are struggling with limited income must not be allowed to become burden on Thailand.

I think each and every foreigner should be able to support themselves and I would double the amount required for all visa catergories.

STUPID comment. Beggars belief.

The Thai state does NOT take care of any farang, except those in prison, nothing to do with citizen ship cos the farang takes care of himself, and yes surprisingly to YOU, he also takes care of Thai citizens in most cases, and perhaps Thai children from a ladies previous marriage BUT this is not recognised or considered here.

ANY visa increase that YOU demand could be spent on the Thai family instead of YOUR daft theory of making it more difficult so the Thai lady might lose her and her families security, cos there is no hand outs here, unlike the UK.

Calm down...

Thai social security system is avaialble to all who pay into it, regardless of nationality. Most working expats can access Thai SS (except teachers and company directors), including medical, baby bonus and child payments etc.

We hire a burmese maid, and with the valid docs, she can access medical care and social services, if she needs it.

[stander]

Thailand is barely able to take care of its own citizens, so why on earth would they make it easy for a foreigner to obtain PR or citizenship.

The foreigners who live here and are struggling with limited income must not be allowed to become burden on Thailand.

I think each and every foreigner should be able to support themselves and I would double the amount required for all visa catergories.

STUPID comment. Beggars belief.

The Thai state does NOT take care of any farang, except those in prison, nothing to do with citizen ship cos the farang takes care of himself, and yes surprisingly to YOU, he also takes care of Thai citizens in most cases, and perhaps Thai children from a ladies previous marriage BUT this is not recognised or considered here.

ANY visa increase that YOU demand could be spent on the Thai family instead of YOUR daft theory of making it more difficult so the Thai lady might lose her and her families security, cos there is no hand outs here, unlike the UK.

Obviously I’ve hit a nerve here, time for a bit of inward thinking here perhaps or maybe your are too be admired for all your charitable work here.

[stander]

The harsh reality is any foreigner here who is not of retirement age and cannot for whatever reasons work here, should have more than enough of an income to support his lifestyle here. If not then he should return to his country of origin and get himself a job.

[theoldgit]

The harsh reality is any foreigner here who is not of retirement age and cannot for whatever reasons work here, should have more than enough of an income to support his lifestyle here. If not then he should return to his country of origin and get himself a job.

As you keep saying in which ever thread you can turn in your direction, you seem to have a problem with everyone not as rich as you.

[stander]

The harsh reality is any foreigner here who is not of retirement age and cannot for whatever reasons work here, should have more than enough of an income to support his lifestyle here. If not then he should return to his country of origin and get himself a job.

As you keep saying in which ever thread you can turn in your direction, you seem to have a problem with everyone not as rich as you.

Education, education and when are you leaving?

[theoldgit]

Education, education and when are you leaving?

I'm sorry, but you really are pathetic.

[Ricardo]

I think that all the British retirees here whose only source of income is the state pension need to take a long hard look at themselves.

If you did not have the foresight to plan additional incomes then really you only have yourself to blame and probably your best bet is to return to the motherland and get sucking on that welfare tit.

Nothing sucks like socialism.

For sure you have missed the point being made totally but as it seems you are one of Maggie Thatchers young entrepreneurs, I will leave it at that.

Likewise. I'm reminded of all that offensive cr*p, which the yuppies used to love to spout in those days, about "if it isn't hurting - then it isn't working". I used to wish then, and still do, that those insensitive twits might one day find themselves, in need of a 'helping hand' themselves. A safety-net is a whole different thing, from rampant communism, or 'socialism' as these God-fearing tea-gardeners seem to call it these days.

Although I do know some, I would seriously doubt that many British retirees here are totally dependant upon the state-pension, certainly I'm not yet retirement-age myself, having stopped working at 50, to enjoy the fruits of my labours !

But I can still spot an injustice, when I see one, and speak out about it. I'm British ... that's one of the things we still are free to do ... despite our country having gone 'down the gurgler', which seems to me to be the way of all 'global-leaders', in the end.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Ricardo

[MAJIC]

If any Brits spot him in a bar, they might perhaps care to 'bend his ear' over a Chang, about the iniquity of the UK-Pension being frozen, for those of us who dare to chose to live in this wonderful country ?

You can be happy to get a pension at all, but why should a 'state pension' paid for people living abroad?

Because I left school at 15 and started work for the next 40 years,whilst doing so I paid NI contributions and UK taxes,

Good enough reason? or have you done better?

All British state pensioners pay into the National Insurance fund under exactly the same rules.

All British state pensioners qualify for their state pension under exactly the same rules.

When it comes time to pay out the pension, different rules are applied depending on the country of residence.

Britannia Waives the Rules!

The Philippines uprated - Thailand frozen. USA uprated - Australia frozen. Switzerland uprated - Canada frozen. Israel uprated - South Africa frozen. The list goes on and on.

Over 40 countries in the world have their pensions uprated each year just as if they were living in the UK. The rest including most of the Commonwealth countries have their pensions frozen.

Yes Pierre,I am aware of all you stated on your Post,

My answer was to Sergeiy,who seems to think any British living abroad should feel happy to have a Pension,as if its some kind of Government gift,which is not the same as having worked for it,and earned it for 40 years,and of course I disagree with the frozen pension,on retiring abroad,its discrimination!

Edited October 18, 2010 by MAJIC

[MAJIC]

I think that all the British retirees here whose only source of income is the state pension need to take a long hard look at themselves.

If you did not have the foresight to plan additional incomes then really you only have yourself to blame and probably your best bet is to return to the motherland and get sucking on that welfare tit.

Nothing sucks like socialism.

For sure you have missed the point being made totally but as it seems you are one of Maggie Thatchers young entrepreneurs, I will leave it at that.

Likewise. I'm reminded of all that offensive cr*p, which the yuppies used to love to spout in those days, about "if it isn't hurting - then it isn't working". I used to wish then, and still do, that those insensitive twits might one day find themselves, in need of a 'helping hand' themselves. A safety-net is a whole different thing, from rampant communism, or 'socialism' as these God-fearing tea-gardeners seem to call it these days.

Although I do know some, I would seriously doubt that many British retirees here are totally dependant upon the state-pension, certainly I'm not yet retirement-age myself, having stopped working at 50, to enjoy the fruits of my labours !

But I can still spot an injustice, when I see one, and speak out about it. I'm British ... that's one of the things we still are free to do ... despite our country having gone 'down the gurgler', which seems to me to be the way of all 'global-leaders', in the end.

Agree. I pride myself in looking at stuff from everybody's perspective and not just my own. People who slag off ordinary guys trying to get through life the best they can really pisses me off.

In the UK,the most expense out lay is a house, they have a job so they buy one, they lose their job and perhaps lose their house, it's a gamble, same as some who move to LOS and find the pound crashes by 30% and have a problem, no different to the guy in UK and his house dilemma and for those who come on board and slag them off cos they are well off is appalling in my eyes.

Well said,Transum & Ricardo.

Paper Shuffling Corporate Crooks,whose fortune was paid for by the losses of the same people they despise.

Edited October 18, 2010 by MAJIC

[Englander]

The harsh reality is any foreigner here who is not of retirement age and cannot for whatever reasons work here, should have more than enough of an income to support his lifestyle here. If not then he should return to his country of origin and get himself a job.

What if ive a rich Thai women who wishes to keep me in a life of luxury?

For someone who is such a fan of the free market, you seem to contradict your logic by dictating to others what they should do.

As for Dave coming here well im a young tattoo'd hoody wearing hooligan so maybe if he sees me he'll give me a hug!

[Englander]

My answer was to Sergeiy,who seems to think any British living abroad should feel happy to have a Pension,as if its some kind of Government gift

No, but the boom in house prices that has to be paid for by my generation and those just being born was a gift to yours ... or should that be something you voted to steal.

Edited October 18, 2010 by Englander

[samran]

I'm not sure what to think. You say:

I pride myself in looking at stuff from everybody's perspective and not just my own. People who slag off ordinary guys trying to get through life the best they can really pisses me off.

but then we get this....

Strange remark, ' Who is stupid here ', when the pensioner watches billions of pounds sent abroad to bolster other countries that have done sod all in their existence to move forward, when an immigrant can be accepted in the UK and get benefits far in excess of a pensioners pension, even housing paid for by the tax payer and never paid a penny into the system.

How many come up with the story ' Oh, l will get knocked about if l go back, who gives a shit, not me, their country, go back and make it better, same as the UK citizens have had to struggle to do.

Ok...so its ok to knock immigrants who are "ordinary guys trying to get through life the best they can" , but not good upstanding Brits.

Got it!

[samran]

Godwin's law: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches."

Samran's law: "As a TV discussion by British Expats grow longer, the probablility of an immigrant bash approaches".

There, my claim to fame.

[samran]

I'm not sure what to think. You say:

I pride myself in looking at stuff from everybody's perspective and not just my own. People who slag off ordinary guys trying to get through life the best they can really pisses me off.

but then we get this....

Strange remark, ' Who is stupid here ', when the pensioner watches billions of pounds sent abroad to bolster other countries that have done sod all in their existence to move forward, when an immigrant can be accepted in the UK and get benefits far in excess of a pensioners pension, even housing paid for by the tax payer and never paid a penny into the system.

How many come up with the story ' Oh, l will get knocked about if l go back, who gives a shit, not me, their country, go back and make it better, same as the UK citizens have had to struggle to do.

Ok...so its ok to knock immigrants who are "ordinary guys trying to get through life the best they can" , but not good upstanding Brits.

Got it!

No, l certainly haven't got your point of view, ordinary guys from the world are trying to get a FREE life at the expense of the UK tax payer. In LOS the UK guy is not expecting anything from Thai hand outs. Got it !!

of course not, clearly 'da man' (ie Thai govt) is holding you back! Always someone elses fault I guess.

[MAJIC]

My answer was to Sergeiy,who seems to think any British living abroad should feel happy to have a Pension,as if its some kind of Government gift

No, but the boom in house prices that has to be paid for by my generation and those just being born was a gift to yours ... or should that be something you voted to steal.

I think its very sad that younger people can't afford high priced housing in this day and age,

but thats nothing to do with a Government Pension that one has worked all their life for,and earned.

I personally didn't vote to steal anything,and I don't understand exactly what it is you are alluding to?

Unless you are referring to Council House Sell off /Vote Buying?

Either way, I never had one to sell!

Edited October 18, 2010 by MAJIC

[stander]

Education, education the reason I say that is up until, say the mid nineties most of your UK expats were guys with good standard of pensions, expat engineers who work on rotation or had expat packages with Thai based companies.

Then with the advent of cheaper long haul flights and the stronger GBP/Baht you started to see the uneducated masses, state pension retirees, the lager louts and the guys on marriage visas that could barely put the required 400K together.

So for me the state pension retirees should return to the UK, the lager louts should go back to Spain and the guys on marriage visas who struggle to support their family should go back and get themselves a job.

[theoldgit]

OK, you have explained your "reasoning", I retired early with an excellent pension and when I reach state retirement age I will receive a tad more.

Given you know absolutely nothing about my personal circumstances why do you continue asking me when I'm leaving? this seems to be your pet response.

Why do you continue with your holier than though attitude and seeming to take great delight in criticising those less fortunate than you?

[stander]

Education, education the reason I say that is up until, say the mid nineties most of your UK expats were guys with good standard of pensions, expat engineers who work on rotation or had expat packages with Thai based companies.

Then with the advent of cheaper long haul flights and the stronger GBP/Baht you started to see the uneducated masses, state pension retirees, the lager louts and the guys on marriage visas that could barely put the required 400K together.

So for me the state pension retirees should return to the UK, the lager louts should go back to Spain and the guys on marriage visas who struggle to support their family should go back and get themselves a job.

Sounds like you want Thailand all to yourself, but god man, you read like an incredibly boring bloke.

Forgot to add that you feel that if a farang falls on hard times he should DESERT his Thai family. Pity your lady, if you have one.

You forget one thing mate, married visa means being married and if someone comes along with a nice fat wallet your lady will be off and then your screwed.

All woman crave financial security, being here on a marriage visa with no ability to work here, limited finances, worrying about every penny is not what she is looking for. So I can understand you insecurity.

[SergeiY]

Then with the advent of cheaper long haul flights and the stronger GBP/Baht you started to see the uneducated masses, state pension retirees, the lager louts and . ...

Samran's law: "As a TV discussion by British Expats grow longer, the probablility of an immigrant bash approaches".

There, my claim to fame.

That these guys now suffer from the strong Baht should be added to the list of good things that comes with a strong Baht.

[stander]

Then with the advent of cheaper long haul flights and the stronger GBP/Baht you started to see the uneducated masses, state pension retirees, the lager louts and . ...

Samran's law: "As a TV discussion by British Expats grow longer, the probablility of an immigrant bash approaches".

There, my claim to fame.

That these guys now suffer from the strong Baht should be added to the list of good things that comes with a strong Baht.

It was in the mid 30's when I came here and it could be heading that way soon, so hopefully that will clear out the dross.

[stander]

NOT my insecurity, l speak for all, rich or poor, all deserve a life, what ever their capabilities. sweep the streets, wear a crown, all the same to me. If l was a millionaire l would still speak for the road sweeper. Unfortunately the hi-so's of this world just think of themselves, especially those that have been born with a silver spoon in their mouth, done sod all, and look down on the ordinary joe. I detest these people, YOU, talk to the young lady who's husband died in his Spitfire over London in 1940 and never re-married, why, why didn't she look for a rich guy as a replacement. I have read her story but you would not understand as money is your only focal point. Pointless trying to explain to you. Hope your happy counting your notes. Sleep tight.

You are right it sucks to be poor

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

I'd also like your opinion on why the routes to PR and Citizenship (ie working, making a contribution, paying a bit of tax and speaking childrens level Thai) is so onerous?

Not allowed to work on a retirement visa/extension.

So why can't we retirees just pay the equivalent of what the working people pay in tax?

Most everything else in Thailand can be bought, so why not have a retired person's yearly PR fee instead of insisting that the money must come from tax?

[stander]

You are right it sucks to be poor

At least we all now know where your coming from.

Just looked but no emicon for ' Sad Person '. Sorry.

I do a lot of charitable things, give me a shout when your 400K is due and I will help you out.

The Thai's just love low class farangs.