Vicious Beating On Khao San Road

[Kathe]

At Sawasdee House - Soi Rambuttri, Kao San Road area

First and foremost, please understand that this was one isolated incident on one of the most amazing trips I've ever been on. Thailand blew away all expectations I had of it and the Thai people, overall, were some of the friendliest people I've met.

Unfortunately, on the night of July 14th, I witnessed one of the worst beatings of a human I have ever seen, all at the hands of the wait and bar staff of the Sawasdee House on Soi Rambuttri in BKK. I was having drinks with a friend that I was traveling with and a few other backpackers that we met in the bar earlier that evening when a small argument started on the other side of the room. The next thing I know, there are 6-8 local bar staff beating up one backpacker while other bar staff were holding his friends away. They took turns beating him with pipes, fists, and feet, even after he had been knocked unconscious and was lying on the ground in a pool of blood. Worst of all, the staff were laughing with each other as, one by one, they took turns kicking him in the face while unprotected on the floor. After about ten minutes of this beating, his friends were allowed to pick him up and take him out of there.

I understand that normal rules don't often apply in foreign countries and that you must always be on high alert for these problems. I assumed that the farang had attempted to steal a bottle/money from the bar or something of that nature for this to occur. However, after the incident I asked my waiter (as he wiped blood from his shirt and shoes) why this incident happened. He stared at me with glaring eyes, said that their was a discrepency in his bill, and the farang didn't believe he should pay the extra part of his bill. He then continued to tell me that if I did not pay my bill right then that the same thing was going to happen to me. Needless to say, I immediately paid my bill and left the restaurant to avoid any further conflict. An incident like this is inexcusable for the circumstances and the threatening manner that was taken after the incident further justifies this posting.

As mentioned above, I know incidents like these are very rare in Thailand. This is even more reason to boycott an establishment like the Sawasdee House because there are so many other hard-working establishments in the area. Please, do not give your money to this establishment. THEY DO NOT DESERVE YOUR MONEY.

I hope that Travelfish and Lonely Planet will take these actions into account and post this for a time to come.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In my time in Thailand I have heard of or seen such incidents.

You must be aware there is a criminal class in Thailand.

Like any city in the world, a person has to be careful, especially late at night.

There are types who try to prey on foriegners.

Unfortunately, sometimes the criminals are in league with the police.

I was once in a situation on a late night in a bar on Patpong road. I started to realize something was wrong when many of the customers left quickly. Two obvious Muay Thai Boxing trained types posted themselves by the door. I was then presented with a bill for 5000 baht.

No one was being allowed to leave the bar unless they paid the phoney bill. I was told if I wanted to leave, I'd have to pay the 5000.

Eventually I negotiated down to 1500 baht, by letting the guy in charge know that was all I had. He agreed to let me leave. During the discussion I mentioned the tourist police. He just laughed at me, said he had the police paid off, and anyhow before I got to the police, I would already be in the hospital.

Still you have to go to the police/tourist police. You probably won't get any satisfaction, but do what you can. There are honest police. Not all of them are paid off.

Some of them do want to make Thailand a better place.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yes, I agreed with you. YOu have to go to the police or report this to thai newspaper, took the picture of that guy and pix of the incident. Report Thairat newspaper. I dont understand why so many people like to visit Khao Sarn Road. Tell me...or was it a scene in a movie once ? This road has been changed. I have been knowing this road for the whole life, but now it seems strange to me.

And every backpackers doing the same thing what they told in the book ( Planet ).

Sitting the same bar , visitting the same shop, eating the same food as the book told you. Should inform planet..next time about the incident, so they have to be warned and becareful themselves to drink after midnight in a lonely planet Khaosarn Road.

Funny but true. 30 years ago, my friend called me to take a nice woman tourist to Ayudthaya, and second time with her again to Lopburi coz I took my other friends for a sight seeing. I'm not a guide. 30 years later I wrote in local news here in Europe and recognise this woman who once went with me, she is Maureen, the owner of Lonely planet. I think now she should be my guide in my own country.

[bkkmadness]

It's been awhile since I've been in one of those establishments in Bangkok but up here in the North this is an everyday occurance.  Many times when you enter a bar you have to step over the farangs who are out cold on the floor...and be sure you don't slip on the blood!!!.....its no big deal really...just life in the North.  It's kind of funny actually....watching the people who are new up here feeling so put upon the first time they get whacked on the noggin for leaving no tip!!!  You learn pretty quickly....if you survive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Whereabouts up North is that?

Daleyboy, you're right, Thais who work on the khao san road are amongst the rudest Thais I have met, in fact that goes for a lot of Thais that work in the tourist industry. But of course they are faced with some of the worst tourists too. It's a shitty cycle of resentment down there with not all, but many of the farang and Thais.

Edited July 31, 2005 by bkkmadness

[daleyboy]

Daleyboy, your right, Thais who work on the khao san road are amongst the rudest Thais I have met, in fact that goes for a lot of Thais that work in the tourist industry.  But of course they are faced with some of the worst tourists too.  It's a shitty cycle of resentment down there with not all, but many of the farang and Thais.

Never really did understand the thoughts that go throw the backpackers heads. I mean they travel halfway round the world to hang out in a weternised ghetto with westerners. Dont know why they dont save themselves some money stay at home and get on a sunbed for a couple of hours to make sure they are nice and red, then go out to any of the big pubs in London and hang out with the westeners in there. I mean even if the pub is empty you will still be able to hang out with the ozzie bar staff

[CarlBkk]

It's ironic to read this topic after just posting in another section about the way Thais fight compared to Westerners. I think generally they cut us foreigners a lot of slack - a few years ago it was rare to read about a foreigner being beaten, but as more and more tourists are passing through they get used to us (pissed off even) and lose patience. I go back to what I said in the other thread.....if you push them, and sometimes even if you don't, expect an unfair confrontation. One on ones, equal numbers in Thailand? Never seen it. Bystanders helping to diffuse the situation? Very rarely.

The incident took place on KSR....not the highest class of people/locals working there, so I'd expect a more serious situation that if the disagreement was at say a Sukhumvit restaurant or a Thonglor nightclub. You actually might stand a chance of the Thais' friends splitting it up there and not joining in. I'd compare it to mouthing off at some hustlers in London's Soho....a busy area with little time for politeness and restraint....so expect extreme violence. I used to live in the centre of it and saw incredible things from my window every night.

As a general rule Westerners (and I mean spectators of the same race) are less inclined to help each other out in a fight whereas Thais absolutely lose it and join in and unfortunately it's because of this and the fact we're in a strange land that we must be more careful. A sensible backpacker who understands the concept of less developed countries will remember to assess the situation before pushing his luck: things are not always fair, logical and sensible here. Firstly, look around....how many people do you expect to be against you? Can you handle one yourself? How many friends (willing and able) do you have with you? Do you know the phone number of the police? Do you have reliable Thai friends with a few contacts?

I can't believe the Tourist Police refuse to act on such a serious incident of violence. Get it reported again, take it to a more senior policeman, inform TAT and other organisations, use any Thai friends you have for their help, point out the assailants to the police and file an official complaint. ######, even get a lawyer if you feel it's worth it. As an expat I would disagree that the police don't give a shit about farangs...I think they'd give more of a shit than if it was a couple of Thai guys that got beaten up.

Or if you really think that won't get anywhere and you're angry...

Get a group of you together, follow one or two of the staff that beat you until the risk of others helping him is minimal, and give him a good kicking whilst reminding him why. Then get the ###### out (cowardly, but there's no fair play remember) and do NOT go near the place again.

Oh, I forgot to say...if you caused the problem by being incredibly offensive (and yes, I do admit that you'd have to be REALLY offensive to deserve being kicked in the face on the floor by several men when you have no back-up), then forget about it and learn not to be rude in low-class establishments in foreign countries.

[chonabot]

It's ironic to read this topic after just posting in another section about the way Thais fight compared to Westerners.  I think generally they cut us foreigners a lot of slack - a few years ago it was rare to read about a foreigner being beaten, but as more and more tourists are passing through they get used to us (pissed off even) and lose patience.  I go back to what I said in the other thread.....if you push them, and sometimes even if you don't, expect an unfair confrontation.  One on ones, equal numbers in Thailand?  Never seen it.  Bystanders helping to diffuse the situation?  Very rarely.

The incident took place on KSR....not the highest class of people/locals working there, so I'd expect a more serious situation that if the disagreement was at say a Sukhumvit restaurant or a Thonglor nightclub.  You actually might stand a chance of the Thais' friends splitting it up there and not joining in.  I'd compare it to mouthing off at some hustlers in London's Soho....a busy area with little time for politeness and restraint....so expect extreme violence.  I used to live in the centre of it and saw incredible things from my window every night.

As a general rule Westerners (and I mean spectators of the same race) are less inclined to help each other out in a fight whereas Thais absolutely lose it and join in and unfortunately it's because of this and the fact we're in a strange land that we must be more careful.  A sensible backpacker who understands the concept of less developed countries will remember to assess the situation before pushing his luck:  things are not always fair, logical and sensible here.  Firstly, look around....how many people do you expect to be against you?  Can you handle one yourself?  How many friends (willing and able) do you have with you?  Do you know the phone number of the police?  Do you have reliable Thai friends with a few contacts?

I can't believe the Tourist Police refuse to act on such a serious incident of violence.  Get it reported again, take it to a more senior policeman, inform TAT and other organisations, use any Thai friends you have for their help, point out the assailants to the police and file an official complaint.  ######, even get a lawyer if you feel it's worth it.  As an expat I would disagree that the police don't give a shit about farangs...I think they'd give more of a shit than if it was a couple of Thai guys that got beaten up.

Or if you really think that won't get anywhere and you're angry...

Get a group of you together, follow one or two of the staff that beat you until the risk of others helping him is minimal, and give him a good kicking whilst reminding him why.  Then get the ###### out (cowardly, but there's no fair play remember) and do NOT go near the place again. 

Oh, I forgot to say...if you caused the problem by being incredibly offensive (and yes, I do admit that you'd have to be REALLY offensive to deserve being kicked in the face on the floor by several men when you have no back-up), then forget about it and learn not to be rude in low-class establishments in foreign countries.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IMo the best and most considered post on this thread(except mine of course.. )

Edited July 31, 2005 by chonabot

[bkkmadness]

Good post, but a couple of things I'd point out.

One on ones, equal numbers in Thailand?  Never seen it.  Bystanders helping to diffuse the situation? 

I saw on one of my first nights in Bangkok a fight outside the khao san centre, it was Thai staff versus a big black dude, and he was a fair size. The Thai staff went one on one with him, got him down on the floor and every time the guy got up, gave him another swift boot in the face until he decided the guy had had enough, and then after the kicking, the Thai guy helped him up and they both had a laugh about it. Police were standing maybe 15 ft away watching the whole show, as was I.

The incident took place on KSR....not the highest class of people/locals working there

Hey dude, my gf had a stall down there selling silver to pay for her study. They're not all bad, but of course gotta agree there are a lot of bad apples on that road.

I used to live in the centre of it and saw incredible things from my window every night.

I also stayed in Khao san for about 6 months at Chart guesthouse, didn't see too much trouble with Thais ganging up on farangs but there were a lot of fights down there that were recitfied pretty quickly, sometimes with a gun being pulled. To be fair, alot of the trouble was initially started by drunk farangs.

I suppose the rule of living in Thailand is the same if you visited anywhere whether it be a Glaswegian pub, a London council estate, travelling though mexico or the bronx, you never f.uck around with the locals, they outnumber you for sure and you'll always be the chosen target if it all kicks off.

Edited July 31, 2005 by bkkmadness

[CarlBkk]

Hey dude, my gf had a stall down there selling silver to pay for her study.  They're not all bad, but of course gotta agree there are a lot of bad apples on that road.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oops! Sorry mate...foot in mouth time!

[bkkmadness]

Hey dude, my gf had a stall down there selling silver to pay for her study.  They're not all bad, but of course gotta agree there are a lot of bad apples on that road.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oops! Sorry mate...foot in mouth time!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

only joshing around dude.

[Nam Kao]

Upcountry i havent been scammed by adding stuff to your bill. Once in Patpong

I sat down early and had 2 quick beers at a place as i waited to the "good" bars to open.

I check the bill and SURPRIZE there are 4 drinks on it. I told the bartender "Hey

there is a mistake here". He smiled and said "No mistake YOU HAVE TO PAY or go jail" and

smugly chuckled.

I almost just paid it, but I take out my phone and call my wife. The guy laughs

and says "Oh you call police, they not help you." I explain to my wife what

happened and she says "Give phone to man". I hand him the phone and I can

hear her blasting this guy in Thai. He hands the phone back to me, My wife said

"You OK now". So I hang up. The thai guy looks at me steamed and adjusts the bill

to just 2 drinks and I saddled up got the heck out of Dodge!

[Nordlys]

I almost just paid it, but I take out my phone and call my wife. The guy laughs

and says "Oh you call police, they not help you." I explain to my wife what

happened and she says "Give phone to man".  I hand him the phone and I can

hear her blasting this guy in Thai. He hands the phone back to me, My wife said

"You OK now". So I hang up. The thai guy looks at me steamed and adjusts the bill

to just 2 drinks and I saddled up got the heck out of Dodge!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish my TW has a guts like that.

[chuchok]

Upcountry i havent been scammed by adding stuff to your bill.  Once in Patpong

I sat down early and had 2 quick beers at a place as i waited to the "good" bars to open.

I check the bill and SURPRIZE there are 4 drinks on it. I told the bartender "Hey

there is a mistake here". He smiled and said "No mistake YOU HAVE TO PAY or go jail" and

smugly chuckled.

I almost just paid it, but I take out my phone and call my wife. The guy laughs

and says "Oh you call police, they not help you." I explain to my wife what

happened and she says "Give phone to man".  I hand him the phone and I can

hear her blasting this guy in Thai. He hands the phone back to me, My wife said

"You OK now". So I hang up. The thai guy looks at me steamed and adjusts the bill

to just 2 drinks and I saddled up got the heck out of Dodge!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I had a similar story, except it didn't involve the wife.I do a little business with a Lady here who is a lesbian.One nite I went to meet them for a quike bite to eat at a resturant.Tuktuk drive quoted me 100THB.I happened to be on the phone with the Thai lady and mentioned I thought the fare was a bit rich,She told me to hand my phone to the driver...result 50% reduction.I laughed most of the way there and ended up giving him an extra 30THB...he looked so sad and it was quite a long trip.

[Boo]

I've done the phone bit too when I am getting ripped off & can't be arsed to argue, just phone the old man & he handles it, 100% percent success rate in not getting ripped off

[Nam Kao]

>>I wish my TW has a guts like that.

That was nothing, you should of seen the time a hotel waiter at a breakfast

buffet in Phuket accused my wife of being a BG. That was ENTERTAINMENT!

[uncle paul]

>>I wish my TW has a guts like that. 

That was nothing, you should of seen the time a hotel waiter at a breakfast

buffet in Phuket accused my wife of being a BG. That was ENTERTAINMENT!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

my missus ripped into a market trader down patpong and had him kneeling on the floor begging her forgivness. mind you one phonecall from her can cause real seroius sh1t as daddy was public prosecutor for ( the top man) bkk and favourite uncle is/was thailands top judge & with admirals, top lawyers, directors of commercial affairs, the ambassador monk for thailand etc etc in the family you just dont mess with her or her family.

i suppose in thailand im really under the thumb

Edited July 31, 2005 by uncle paul

[LoveDaBlues]

http://www.nationsonline.org/oneworld/third_world.htm

Kat, you are right.

Chonabot, your incident when you were 20 sure sounds like a 'random act of violence' amazing how often those random things happen

Edited August 1, 2005 by LoveDaBlues

[Curt]

BTW:

"jomama" didn't completely cut and paste the original post on the incident.

The poster's signature reads:

"to beer...the cause of and solution to all of lifes problems"

- Homer J Simpson

Kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.

Have a beer, dude!

Original Post

[TRIPxCORE]

That certainly doesn't sound like a bunch of peaceful Thai Buddhists to me. I'll remember the name of this place and make sure never to set foot inside.

[jomama]

Daleyboy, you're right, Thais who work on the khao san road are amongst the rudest Thais I have met, in fact that goes for a lot of Thais that work in the tourist industry.  But of course they are faced with some of the worst tourists too.  It's a shitty cycle of resentment down there with not all, but many of the farang and Thais.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That does seem to be the case. In BKK we went to the Night Bazaar area near Lumpini Park where they have a beer garden and live music. Excellent service from very polite (and pretty) girls. Their customers, of course, are mostly Thai and they would not tolerate the type of rude service that seems to come with backpacker areas.

On Koh Samet the service could also be quite rude if you asked for something they didn't feel like doing (like changing bungalows because Thais partied all night next to us). I told my wife about this very discussion and she said on Samet she overheard the staff talking about beating up a farang guy because he was still using a mat on the beach and they wanted to close -- and he wanted to finish his beer. Luckily he was with a Thai too and she got him moving .

Which came first -- the rude foreigner or the rude Thai? Probably the foreigner, but the many of these backpacker places don't employ the cream of Thai culture by any means. In fact, many are not even Thai. On Samet I would speak Thai (I've been here 13 years) and they didn't understand at all. My wife, too, and they didn't seem to understand, so she just decided to say she was Japanese and speak English.

We basically had a very good time, but the staff at our bungalow area, all guys, were pretty rude. Again a far cry from the decent hotel we stayed at on Sukumvit -- excellent, polite service.

The overall class of the place you go makes a huge difference.

[The Skipper]

Yesterday, I noticed the Taxi I was in had 2 emergency brake handles, then realized the second one was a hatchet!

Be nice out there.

[jomama]

It’s an unhappy recipe. In Thai culture, a violent waiter would be dealt with one way or the other -- could be the offended Thai would bring HIS buddies and settle the score. The waiter would’t really know who he’s dealing with so he would be careful.

In the case of the backpackers, there is no accountability because they’re just breezes passing through. They’ll be gone in a few days and have no friends who are willing to harbor a grudge deep enough to bring violent retribution. They don’t have friends whose relatives are policemen or Thai boxers.

From the waiter’s standpoint, here are these spoiled “rich kids” who are flying around the world, yet are SO “kee-nio” with their money. In some Western cultures, drinking a few pints and getting abusive is acceptable, so that’s what they do in Thailand. Then there are those who will cheat on the bill or whatever just to save a few baht for their next pint. I mean, who would fly around the world and willingly stay in a 70 baht “jail cell” without windows or bathroom? These farangs are strange, indeed.

In all, not the most shining examples from either culture, but after this discussion my final thought is that the backpackers get what they pay for -- not much.

[Khutan]

KSR, somewhere I just avoid as much as possible. I remember my wife being harrassed there by drunken back-packers, our crime, we went there to meet some tourist friends and have spaghetti for dinner.

How many times do you hear of drunks getting into fights ?

[penelope]

KSR, somewhere I just avoid as much as possible. I remember my wife being harrassed there by drunken back-packers, our crime, we went there to meet some tourist friends and have spaghetti for dinner.

How many times do you hear of drunks getting into fights ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Fortunately thai society is structured in such a way that financial and class barriers generally keep the riff-raff in their ghettos.Many of you are fortunate enough that you dont have to mix with the kinds of people or venues that are privy to this neanderthalish behaviour.

Edited August 1, 2005 by penelope

[deepdiver]

KSR, somewhere I just avoid as much as possible.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the place to be to find the ultimate tourists...make trouble for 300 bath,

get trouble for 1000 US..."som nam na" would be the comment from any Thai and i agree ...

[Khutan]

Fortunately thai society is structured in such a way that financial and class barriers generally keep the riff-raff in their ghettos.Many of you are fortunate enough that you dont have to mix with the kinds of people or venues that are privy to this neanderthalish behaviour.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

True, True;

I went drinking one night with some guys from the Navy in some very dodgy bars in Klong Toey, must say I was very happy to be home after that night.

[The Dude]

You can tell by reading the post by these backpackers that they are pure, arrogant, unadulterated scum. They deserved the beating they got. May they get another

[deepdiver]

You can tell by reading the post by these backpackers that they are pure, arrogant, unadulterated scum. They deserved the beating they got. May they get another

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

absolutely agree with you Dude...i repeat "som nam na" !!!

[Tolley]

Funny how many posters here are in complete denial about the violence that exists in Thailand.

Some of the comments are laughable really....such as "go home if you don't like it here" "they got what they deserved" "the violence is restricted to Khao San Road"

"it wont happen to me because i understand Thai culture" "I feel safer here than at home"

None of these statements addresses what happens on a regular basis in LOS.

Tourists are routinely beaten and in some cases murdered on a disturbingly regular basis in Thailand. Further the perpetrators are often not caught nor are the police remotely interested in catching them. You can forget about due process in Thailand and any real protection from the law.

Thailand promotes iteslf as a tourist destination but in one of the main tourist areas of Bangkok an attack like the one posted here happens and the police can't be bothered to do anything. What sort of message does that send to your average Thai? Pretty clear really....tourists are open season.

Do you think you could get away with this in Sydney, London or Paris?

[Darknight]

You can tell by reading the post by these backpackers that they are pure, arrogant, unadulterated scum. They deserved the beating they got. May they get another

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

absolutely agree with you Dude...i repeat "som nam na" !!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would even say TIT's

(this is thailand)

no money scum backpackers, and beer and un unpaid barbill seems an unhealty combination for some.

I would have trown the 300 bath in their face and said "there's a lot more here then the puny money you need, enjoy"

you have to learn how to make them lose face in a very friendly thai way

you can deliver the biggest insult to them by smiling and delivering one line.

you'll need to adapt the thai way of "face losing"

or make you could go back-pack around rwanda or such. They just would chop your head off for an unpaid bill

[deepdiver]

Do you think you could get away with this in Sydney, London or Paris?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

probably when it's beating up a backpacker,, they are not the most beloved tourist, always complaining about bills, accomodation, and walking around in sarongs without a shower for the last few days...that's the image a lot of backpackers in specialy KSR and for example Kho Samui and the other "full moon"Kho's ...

i am happy we don't have them around overhere to much...

Edited August 1, 2005 by deepdiver

[uncle paul]

WELL THIS SEEMS LIKE A REAL HATCHET JOB! NONE OF YOU KNOW THE FACTS AND YOU HAVE HUNG DRAWN AND QUARTERED THE GUY.

HE WAS BEATEN BIG TIME BY THE PEOPLE AT THIS BAR.

GOOD JOB YOU LOT WILL NEVER BE ON A JURY TO JUDGE ME!