Liver Checkup

[mattcodes]

How long after stopping drinking can you get a liver checkup with any significant/meaningful results?

Is a week enough?

[saakura]

depends on how much alcohol you have been drinking. If you are an alcohol abuser, it is meaningless to stop for a few days before your check-up. If you are a moderate social drinker, makes no difference, If you are a heavy drinker who has stopped due to warnings from doctor, then go for a check up after 3 months of abstaining, Then the results may encourage you to kick the habit.

[Beechboy]

Get some Milk Thistle capsules as this is excellent for speeding up the liver's self-repairing ability.

Google it.

[gerryBScot]

I remember a few years ago trying to get a minicab driver's license in London UK as a declared "alcohol abuser" as opposed to "alcohol dependent" with under a year's declared abstinence from alcohol. The requirements were that an alcohol abuser had to have at least one year's abstinence to be given a license so my doctor told me to come back when I could say I had a year off at which point he endorsed my application and a temporary permit was issued.I worked as a hack driver for a year then on a temporary permit and when that was coming to an end the authority then asked for a full liver count which is done by a blood test. When the results came back my doctor advised me to frame them as they indicated an almost "athletic" liver and I remember him comparing a previous test with that latest one and saying he wouldn't even need to provide a cover letter as the results spoke for themselves. I don't know what your angle is on this but let me assure you every day you go without a drink your liver is regenerating and getting healthier.

[Sheryl]

If you mean how soon after stopping will your liver function show improvement, give it at least a month, at which point some improvement may be seen which will continue with each passing month.

Being sure to eat a healthy diet, and perhaps taking a good B complex supplement, will also help the process.

[RickThai]

I had a liver transplant about 3 years ago, so I've learned a little something about liver disease and alcohol.

There are three primary tests that indicate liver disease: ALT, AST, and SGOT. I found that even drinking a 6-pack of 3.2% beer resulted in an increase in ALT and AST levels 3 weeks after I drank them.

So waiting a month or more will give the doctor a better indication of your liver's health.

I'd also recommend not taking any kind of herbs (milk thistle, etc.) Some of these home remedies actually cause more damage to the liver.

Always check with a qualified doctor (a gastroentrologist, or a hepatologist) before taking any thing to help with your liver.

Liver's can take a lot of damage, but eventually alcohol abuse and/or disease replaces healthy liver cells with scar tissue.

The problem with scar tissue is that it is not functionable. It cannot regenerate and it cannot filter out toxins or metabolize nutrients.

I've live through End-stage-liver-disease (ESLD) and it's no fun.

Although I enjoyed my drinks (loved that Newcastle Beer!) in my time, I have absolutely no desire to ever drink anything with alcohol in it.

Being healthy and clearheaded brings me all the happiness I need.

Best of luck.

Rick

[ThaiPauly]

Well done Rick.....glad that you got a second chance and took it.

Unlike George Best RIP

[ding]

Seconded on the grats to RickThai.

I've read about the milk thistle treatment too, but that was years ago... and I'm not so certain now!

"Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) is an herbal remedy that has been used to treat liver disorders for many years. The latest study, a review and meta-analysis of 13 clinical trials, published in the December, 2005, American Journal of Gastroenterology, concluded that extracts of milk thistle are ineffective as a treatment for liver disorders. The study got widespread publicity that, I'm afraid, gave the wrong impression about both the safety and efficacy of this time-tested remedy. A review of the study by a team of experts assembled by the American Botanical Council (ABC) put the findings in perspective. It showed that, contrary to misleading information carried in some news reports, the study itself concluded that milk thistle extracts are safe and are well tolerated by patients. The ABC experts also reported that the conclusion questioning the efficacy of milk thistle was based primarily on the results of only one of the 13 trials analyzed."

Dr Weil

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA365823

Good luck mattcodes

Edited March 30, 2011 by ding

[coolhandjoe]

That 'a bummer i've just invested in a load of milk thystle pills so i can continue my drinking hobby.

Maybe Dr.Weil is trying to promote his alternatives by discrediting the competition.

[ding]

That 'a bummer i've just invested in a load of milk thystle pills so i can continue my drinking hobby.

Maybe Dr.Weil is trying to promote his alternatives by discrediting the competition.

I woulda thought milk thistle was right up Dr Weil's alley, but I'm not very familiar with him really.

He has an ad for the same diet as Dr Pericone on that page, Anti-Inflammatory. I know Pericone's plan and it seems sound to me.

[petestry]

always a interesting subject,

i had a check up 2 months ago & my hep c in my liver and kidney had go to 80, the safe barrier is 30-50, i had been drinking rather heavy for 1 month,

ive since quit the drinking in the week & drink on a weekend,

ive started taking "fa ta la jon" which is the same as milk thistle & a lot cheaper, 80-100 baht for 100 capsules,

i have another test in may so the results will be interesting,

don't take milk thistle or fa ta la jon for more than 7 days, in some people it affects the muscle's,

drink loads of water every day.

[RickThai]

always a interesting subject,

i had a check up 2 months ago & my hep c in my liver and kidney had go to 80, the safe barrier is 30-50, i had been drinking rather heavy for 1 month,

ive since quit the drinking in the week & drink on a weekend,

ive started taking "fa ta la jon" which is the same as milk thistle & a lot cheaper, 80-100 baht for 100 capsules,

i have another test in may so the results will be interesting,

don't take milk thistle or fa ta la jon for more than 7 days, in some people it affects the muscle's,

drink loads of water every day.

Petestry:

Do yourself a big favor and get your Hep C treated. I was diagnosed with Hep C in 1997. I tried a couple of rounds of treatment with Interferon Alpha and then with Interferon Alpha with Ribavirin. Both treatments failed initially. I had the genus 1a which is very difficult to treat. I decided to wait it out a bit, hoping a better form of treatment would come along. I continued to drink and by 2007, I was fighting for my life.

I went into ESLD and had to have a liver transplant. I was so sick that I was only on the transplant waiting list for 5 days before I was given a liver. Even with the new liver it was touch-and-go for a couple of months.

As soon as I was healthy enough, my doctor's started treatement for the Hep C. Since I was no longer drinking (they won't give you a liver in the USA, if you are still drinking), I was finally able to clear the virus within 4 months. I have been virus-free (or at least undectable) for over a year now.

Please don't continue to drink and self medicate. Work as hard as you can NOW to clear your Hep C. I understand that just recently a new drug treatment has been approved by the FDA that is very efective at clearing the Hep C virus, even with non-responders (people who have tried before and couldn't clear the virus).

Your ALTs and ASTs can stay at 80 or 100 levels and you can still be approaching End-stage-liver-diesease. The levels indicate enzymes that are produced when liver cells are diseased or dying. If your liver already has a ton of scar tissue, these cells do not give off the enzymes anymore, so a reading of 80 on a healthy liver is not the same as a reading of 80 on a liver that has already reached a high stage of fibrosis or cirhohis (sp).

Trust me, you don't won't to go into ESLD!

Best of luck,

Rick

[ding]

always a interesting subject,

i had a check up 2 months ago & my hep c in my liver and kidney had go to 80, the safe barrier is 30-50, i had been drinking rather heavy for 1 month,

ive since quit the drinking in the week & drink on a weekend,

ive started taking "fa ta la jon" which is the same as milk thistle & a lot cheaper, 80-100 baht for 100 capsules,

i have another test in may so the results will be interesting,

don't take milk thistle or fa ta la jon for more than 7 days, in some people it affects the muscle's,

drink loads of water every day.

Petestry:

Do yourself a big favor and get your Hep C treated. I was diagnosed with Hep C in 1997. I tried a couple of rounds of treatment with Interferon Alpha and then with Interferon Alpha with Ribavirin. Both treatments failed initially. I had the genus 1a which is very difficult to treat. I decided to wait it out a bit, hoping a better form of treatment would come along. I continued to drink and by 2007, I was fighting for my life.

I went into ESLD and had to have a liver transplant. I was so sick that I was only on the transplant waiting list for 5 days before I was given a liver. Even with the new liver it was touch-and-go for a couple of months.

As soon as I was healthy enough, my doctor's started treatement for the Hep C. Since I was no longer drinking (they won't give you a liver in the USA, if you are still drinking), I was finally able to clear the virus within 4 months. I have been virus-free (or at least undectable) for over a year now.

Please don't continue to drink and self medicate. Work as hard as you can NOW to clear your Hep C. I understand that just recently a new drug treatment has been approved by the FDA that is very efective at clearing the Hep C virus, even with non-responders (people who have tried before and couldn't clear the virus).

Your ALTs and ASTs can stay at 80 or 100 levels and you can still be approaching End-stage-liver-diesease. The levels indicate enzymes that are produced when liver cells are diseased or dying. If your liver already has a ton of scar tissue, these cells do not give off the enzymes anymore, so a reading of 80 on a healthy liver is not the same as a reading of 80 on a liver that has already reached a high stage of fibrosis or cirhohis (sp).

Trust me, you don't won't to go into ESLD!

Best of luck,

Rick

Great post, almost worth pinning IMHO.

I know people with Hep C and they live healthy happy lives. One eats very poorly, fats and sugars, but doesn't drink and still is in relatively good health. And she was diagnosed in 1998.

[Wrong Turn]

The study got widespread publicity that, I'm afraid, gave the wrong impression about both the safety and efficacy of this time-tested remedy. A review of the study by a team of experts assembled by the American Botanical Council (ABC) put the findings in perspective. It showed that, contrary to misleading information carried in some news reports, the study itself concluded that milk thistle extracts are safe and are well tolerated by patients. The ABC experts also reported that the conclusion questioning the efficacy of milk thistle was based primarily on the results of only one of the 13 trials analyzed."

Dr Weil

http://www.drweil.com/drw/u/id/QAA365823

Good luck mattcodes

Some posters mis-read the above post by Dr. Weil.

He is saying that the study discounting Milk Thistle is invalid and misleading.

Dr. Weil is stating that Milk Thistle does help.

[RickThai]

.Great post, almost worth pinning IMHO.

I know people with Hep C and they live healthy happy lives. One eats very poorly, fats and sugars, but doesn't drink and still is in relatively good health. And she was diagnosed in 1998.

Hi Ding,

That the trouble with Hep C, you will feel almost no symptoms right up until your liver starts dying. Than you go downhill fairly quickly. Not drinking is certainly a wise choice for your friend, but if she has health insurance and/or can afford the treatment, it makes no sense to me to wait on treatment. At age 52, I was in excellent health, I was doing one set of 50 pushups everynight, I walked to work one day during an annual Colorado walk/ride (a bike) to work day. The distance one-way was 16.5 miles. It took me 4 hours and 15 minutes, but I didn't feel too tired. All that changed within a two year time period.

Again I would urge, everyone who has Hep C, to try their best and get treatment. If you aren't able to afford it, then do whatever it takes to get health insurance and/or government assistance (even if it means giving up your ex-pat status and going back to your native country.)

I wish you and your friends the best.

Rick

[philo]

I had a liver transplant about 3 years ago, so I've learned a little something about liver disease and alcohol.

There are three primary tests that indicate liver disease: ALT, AST, and SGOT. I found that even drinking a 6-pack of 3.2% beer resulted in an increase in ALT and AST levels 3 weeks after I drank them.

So waiting a month or more will give the doctor a better indication of your liver's health.

I'd also recommend not taking any kind of herbs (milk thistle, etc.) Some of these home remedies actually cause more damage to the liver.

Always check with a qualified doctor (a gastroentrologist, or a hepatologist) before taking any thing to help with your liver.

Liver's can take a lot of damage, but eventually alcohol abuse and/or disease replaces healthy liver cells with scar tissue.

The problem with scar tissue is that it is not functionable. It cannot regenerate and it cannot filter out toxins or metabolize nutrients.

I've live through End-stage-liver-disease (ESLD) and it's no fun.

Although I enjoyed my drinks (loved that Newcastle Beer!) in my time, I have absolutely no desire to ever drink anything with alcohol in it.

Being healthy and clearheaded brings me all the happiness I need.

Best of luck.

Rick

With all due respect - your medical information could be somewhat misleading.

AST and ALT (aspartate aminotransferase and alanine aminotransferase) are the same biomarkers/enzymes as SGOT and SGPT (serum glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase and serum glutamic pyruvic transaminase)- just different terminology. A search will give thousands of links to confirm this.

Furtermore - a Liver Function Test can be taken anytime - dry or p.ssed. The indicator that will be most affected by alcohol and/or it's byproducts is GGT (gamma glutamyl transpeptidase). Again, please do a search. Surely the results of of the LFT will vary after reducing/stopping alcohol intake, changing diet, lifestyle, weight reduction or ... - but that is not the main point. Go to a detox and even if they have to carry you into the ER, one of the first things they do is to take a liver function test (or panel as some call it).

Finally - milk thistle/silymarin is not a 'home remedy', but is prescribed (under at least a dozen brand names) along with Essentiale by physicians to patients with hepatitis/fatty liver/cirrhosis. A search for 'silymarin essentiale' gave me around 20.000 hits. I urge people to check for themselves or see a qualified physician at a good hospital.

Thank you.

[RickThai]

I had a liver transplant about 3 years ago, so I've learned a little something about liver disease and alcohol.

There are three primary tests that indicate liver disease: ALT, AST, and SGOT. I found that even drinking a 6-pack of 3.2% beer resulted in an increase in ALT and AST levels 3 weeks after I drank them.

So waiting a month or more will give the doctor a better indication of your liver's health.

I'd also recommend not taking any kind of herbs (milk thistle, etc.) Some of these home remedies actually cause more damage to the liver.

Always check with a qualified doctor (a gastroentrologist, or a hepatologist) before taking any thing to help with your liver.

Liver's can take a lot of damage, but eventually alcohol abuse and/or disease replaces healthy liver cells with scar tissue.

The problem with scar tissue is that it is not functionable. It cannot regenerate and it cannot filter out toxins or metabolize nutrients.

I've live through End-stage-liver-disease (ESLD) and it's no fun.

Although I enjoyed my drinks (loved that Newcastle Beer!) in my time, I have absolutely no desire to ever drink anything with alcohol in it.

Being healthy and clearheaded brings me all the happiness I need.

Best of luck.

Rick

With all due respect - your medical information could be somewhat misleading.

AST and ALT (aspartate aminotransferase and alanine aminotransferase) are the same biomarkers/enzymes as SGOT and SGPT (serum glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase and serum glutamic pyruvic transaminase)- just different terminology. A search will give thousands of links to confirm this.

Furtermore - a Liver Function Test can be taken anytime - dry or p.ssed. The indicator that will be most affected by alcohol and/or it's byproducts is GGT (gamma glutamyl transpeptidase). Again, please do a search. Surely the results of of the LFT will vary after reducing/stopping alcohol intake, changing diet, lifestyle, weight reduction or ... - but that is not the main point. Go to a detox and even if they have to carry you into the ER, one of the first things they do is to take a liver function test (or panel as some call it).

Finally - milk thistle/silymarin is not a 'home remedy', but is prescribed (under at least a dozen brand names) along with Essentiale by physicians to patients with hepatitis/fatty liver/cirrhosis. A search for 'silymarin essentiale' gave me around 20.000 hits. I urge people to check for themselves or see a qualified physician at a good hospital.

Thank you.

My comments would be as always: Check with your doctor. Do not rely on 'internet hits' when it comes to vital health decisions.

[RickThai]

I had a liver transplant about 3 years ago, so I've learned a little something about liver disease and alcohol.

There are three primary tests that indicate liver disease: ALT, AST, and SGOT. I found that even drinking a 6-pack of 3.2% beer resulted in an increase in ALT and AST levels 3 weeks after I drank them.

So waiting a month or more will give the doctor a better indication of your liver's health.

I'd also recommend not taking any kind of herbs (milk thistle, etc.) Some of these home remedies actually cause more damage to the liver.

Always check with a qualified doctor (a gastroentrologist, or a hepatologist) before taking any thing to help with your liver.

Liver's can take a lot of damage, but eventually alcohol abuse and/or disease replaces healthy liver cells with scar tissue.

The problem with scar tissue is that it is not functionable. It cannot regenerate and it cannot filter out toxins or metabolize nutrients.

I've live through End-stage-liver-disease (ESLD) and it's no fun.

Although I enjoyed my drinks (loved that Newcastle Beer!) in my time, I have absolutely no desire to ever drink anything with alcohol in it.

Being healthy and clearheaded brings me all the happiness I need.

Best of luck.

Rick

With all due respect - your medical information could be somewhat misleading.

AST and ALT (aspartate aminotransferase and alanine aminotransferase) are the same biomarkers/enzymes as SGOT and SGPT (serum glutamic oxaloacetic transaminase and serum glutamic pyruvic transaminase)- just different terminology. A search will give thousands of links to confirm this.

Furtermore - a Liver Function Test can be taken anytime - dry or p.ssed. The indicator that will be most affected by alcohol and/or it's byproducts is GGT (gamma glutamyl transpeptidase). Again, please do a search. Surely the results of of the LFT will vary after reducing/stopping alcohol intake, changing diet, lifestyle, weight reduction or ... - but that is not the main point. Go to a detox and even if they have to carry you into the ER, one of the first things they do is to take a liver function test (or panel as some call it).

Finally - milk thistle/silymarin is not a 'home remedy', but is prescribed (under at least a dozen brand names) along with Essentiale by physicians to patients with hepatitis/fatty liver/cirrhosis. A search for 'silymarin essentiale' gave me around 20.000 hits. I urge people to check for themselves or see a qualified physician at a good hospital.

Thank you.

My comments would be as always: Check with your doctor. Do not rely on 'internet hits' when it comes to vital health decisions.

You are right in that SGOT is the same as ALT (or AST, I can't remember which). GGT is what I actually wanted to state in my OP. However, for years doctor's have used the ratio of ALT to AST to indicate if liver diesease is primarily the result of alcohol abuse or some other factor. I still stand by original statement that to get a more accurate picture of your liver's health, you should quit drinking for at least a month or more. A liver biopsy is really the best way to get an accurate indicator of your liver's current state.

Respectfully,

Rick

[Newsh]

Hi Guys

Would anybody be able to kindly inform me as to where it would be possible for me to conduct a GGT test in Thailand? I have been in touch with the Bangkok hospital who said they can not do the test. Has anyone previously taken the test in Thailand? if so I would be very grateful if you could let me know where it was you did the test.

Thanks in advance for any help with this.