Esol And Citezenship Tests

[scouseterry]

hi everybody! try and get your heads around this for me please! my thai wife is currently in the uk using a six month visit visa! when she returns to thailand in jan she is going to apply for a spouse settlement visa ! the uk goverment now says as of nov2010 she will have to have a certificate in english langauge to be included with her settlement visa application! now heres the interesting bit ! i have been to every english language school in liverpool that is approved by the uk immigration and have been told by them all she can not attend a esol course here until she has been here twelve months its the law! shes only been here 3 months so is not allowed to study! the list of approved schools is uk only ! can she take the uk citezen test and provide this inplace of an esol with her settlement visa apllication! also does anybody know where i can find a list of approved schools in thailand ! i think its crazy that the uk goverment makes a person wait 12 months before they can study surely it would make sense for them to be able to as soon as they arrive! 12 months walking about in the dark not understanding anything its a pathetic rule!

[TiggerFish]

That doesn't sound right to me.

My wife had been here less than a week before she enrolled on an ESOL course.

However she does have to attend the course for a full school year to meet the requirements to apply for ILR.

I'm guessing your wife only has 3 months left before she has to return.

[bangkockney]

She's on a general visit visa, this is the problem. No study allowed.

She can sit the TOEIC test in Thailand, or any other English test she wants that's approved by the UKBA.

[Thongkorn]

If she was on a settlement visa there would be no problem , although you would have to pay until your lady /wife had been in the UK for a year , then she would be entitled to education ,My wife was only here for 3 months and enrolled on an ESOL course , But that was on a settlement visa, Now she is on her second ESOL course , because after she has done level 2 she does not have to do the Life in the UK test , As far as i am aware,

[jdinasia]

She's on a general visit visa, this is the problem. No study allowed.

She can sit the TOEIC test in Thailand, or any other English test she wants that's approved by the UKBA.

I think she may be able to sit the PTE as well. The score required isn't that high at all.

[scouseterry]

She's on a general visit visa, this is the problem. No study allowed.

She can sit the TOEIC test in Thailand, or any other English test she wants that's approved by the UKBA.

thanks for your reply ! the problem iv got is the ukba dont list any approved schools ibthailand! her english is good ! i was going to get her to take the life in the uk test is this sufficient for an initial sttlement visa?

[bangkockney]

She can sit the Life in the UK test on a general visit visa.

Buy the book with practice questions and do the test before. She returns in January.

No need for a UKBA accredited school in Thailand, just an approved test provider. I recommend TOEIC because it is cheap and relatively easy. BB Tower, Bangkok is the place to do it.

List of approved English language tests for partners (pdf)

Edited October 21, 2010 by bangkockney

[Guest jonzboy]

Terry

try and make sure your wife studies for and takes the KOL test now, so when you apply for the visa (and assuming you've been living together overseas for four years), she will get ILE and possibly save you $$$£££

if your wife is a good English speaker I doubt she will need to sit a course to prepare for the new English test requirement as it is supposedly a very basic level of listening and speaking that is required

I have never seen any official confirmation that a KOL test pass equals the new English test requirement but it really should do in my opinion as the KOL test is quite tough

[scouseterry]

Terry

try and make sure your wife studies for and takes the KOL test now, so when you apply for the visa (and assuming you've been living together overseas for four years), she will get ILE and possibly save you $$£££

if your wife is a good English speaker I doubt she will need to sit a course to prepare for the new English test requirement as it is supposedly a very basic level of listening and speaking that is required

I have never seen any official confirmation that a KOL test pass equals the new English test requirement but it really should do in my opinion as the KOL test is quite tough

i have just sent the visa department in bangkok a request for the following information ! can my thai wife take the citezenship

test in the uk and include a pass result in her uk settlement visa application in place of the english language eg esol requirement that is being put into force in november!

ill let you all know as soon as i get an answer!

[bangkockney]

i have just sent the visa department in bangkok a request for the following information ! can my thai wife take the citezenship

test in the uk and include a pass result in her uk settlement visa application in place of the english language eg esol requirement that is being put into force in november!

ill let you all know as soon as i get an answer!

No, they are two different things.

Edited October 21, 2010 by bangkockney

[norrona]

just to add to this I have got my fiancee an appointment at an adult college close to us for 18th November to be assessed to see which ESOL course she is to go on, is this the right procedure and will it count towards anything worthwhile once we get married next year?

She has only been here 2 weeks and is on a settlelment visa which I know I have to pay for the 2 year visa once we are married, any advice on this from someone in the know or who has been through it is appreciated, thanks

[scouseterry]

i have just sent the visa department in bangkok a request for the following information ! can my thai wife take the citezenship

test in the uk and include a pass result in her uk settlement visa application in place of the english language eg esol requirement that is being put into force in november!

ill let you all know as soon as i get an answer!

No, they are two different things.

for indefinite leave to remain a life in the uk test must be passed so why wouldnt this be sufficient for an initial settlement visa of 27mths! doesnt make sense to me ok for one type of visa but not the other shorter one!

[bangkockney]

Norrona:

Yes, good to have her level assessed.

If she is found to be at or above ESOL 3 she will haveto sit the KOL test.

If below that level, she must demonstrate relevant progress by progressing at least 1 level.

Make sure the college is accredited and that the course contains citizenship materials or it will be invalid. The certificate must also be awarded by an approved awarding body.

[bangkockney]

i have just sent the visa department in bangkok a request for the following information ! can my thai wife take the citezenship

test in the uk and include a pass result in her uk settlement visa application in place of the english language eg esol requirement that is being put into force in november!

ill let you all know as soon as i get an answer!

No, they are two different things.

for indefinite leave to remain a life in the uk test must be passed so why wouldnt this be sufficient for an initial settlement visa of 27mths! doesnt make sense to me ok for one type of visa but not the other shorter one!

For ILR and a spouse visa, English level must be demonstrated.

If applying from within the UK, applicants could use ESOL skills for life, thus killing two birds with one stone.

As you are applying from outside the UK, you cannot, as I understand it.

An English test will therefore have to be taken. Taking the KOL test now means she will be issued with ILR not a spouse visa.

[norrona]

Norrona:

Yes, good to have her level assessed.

If she is found to be at or above ESOL 3 she will haveto sit the KOL test.

If below that level, she must demonstrate relevant progress by progressing at least 1 level.

Make sure the college is accredited and that the course contains citizenship materials or it will be invalid. The certificate must also be awarded by an approved awarding body.

Many thanks for the advice, always good to have a few questions to throw at them, I live in Essex near Southend and it is listed as the Southend Adult Community College.

I will report back once we have been, cheers once again;)

[7by7]

for indefinite leave to remain a life in the uk test must be passed so why wouldnt this be sufficient for an initial settlement visa of 27mths! doesnt make sense to me ok for one type of visa but not the other shorter one!

A good question; passing the LitUK test obviously shows that one's level of English is above that required for the initial settlement visa, so it should logically suffice.

However, logic and the UKBA don't always get on!

Let us know what their reply is, please.

If she is found to be at or above ESOL 3 she will haveto sit the KOL test.

If below that level, she must demonstrate relevant progress by progressing at least 1 level.

Not quite.

Applicant's for ILR must demonstrate their knowledge of life and language in the UK, but they can do so in one of two ways. Either by passing the LitUK test or by progressing at least one level in an approved ESOL with citizenship course. Which route they individual chooses is entirely up to them.

However, unless one has an English ability at ESOL entry level 3 (not level 3, which is much higher; 'A' level standard at least, I believe) then it is unlikely that one will be able to understand the LitUK study materials or the test itself sufficiently well to enable one to pass. In which case the course route would probably be the better option.

[7by7]

Taking the KOL test now means she will be issued with ILR not a spouse visa.

Only if she otherwise qualifies; that is she has lived with the OP outside of the UK in a relationship akin to marriage, or actually married, for at least the 4 years prior to applying. Otherwise she will be given a 27 month spouse visa, KOL satisfied or not.

And it would be Indefinite Leave to Enter, not Remain. ILR can only be issued inside the UK, ILE outside.

[bangkockney]

And it would be Indefinite Leave to Enter, not Remain. ILR can only be issued inside the UK, ILE outside.

Yes,sorry typo. R and E so close together.

Clearly, you can't remain if you are yet to enter!

[bangkockney]

Not quite.

Applicant's for ILR must demonstrate their knowledge of life and language in the UK, but they can do so in one of two ways. Either by passing the LitUK test or by progressing at least one level in an approved ESOL with citizenship course. Which route they individual chooses is entirely up to them.

However, unless one has an English ability at ESOL entry level 3 (not level 3, which is much higher; 'A' level standard at least, I believe) then it is unlikely that one will be able to understand the LitUK study materials or the test itself sufficiently well to enable one to pass. In which case the course route would probably be the better option.

The UKBA phrase it in such a way that if you are ESOL entry 3, then they will only accept KOL. You can't progress another level and submit that in place of KOL.

They also phrase it as to say if you are below ESOL entry 3 "you will need to".....

However, I see the point you are making.

Edited October 21, 2010 by bangkockney

[7by7]

I see your point, and Demonstrating your knowledge of language and life in the UK does say "need to" as you point out.

Obviously, if someone's English ability is high enough to pass the LitUK test then this would be the better option; on a cost basis if no other reason.

BTW KOL is shorthand for Knowledge of Life and Language in the UK. It is not an abbreviation of the test. KOL can be satisfied either by passing the test or taking the ESOL with citizenship course route.

[bangkockney]

BTW KOL is shorthand for Knowledge of Life and Language in the UK. It is not an abbreviation of the test. KOL can be satisfied either by passing the test or taking the ESOL with citizenship course route.

Duly noted, thanks for the correction 7by7

[scouseterry]

iv been studieing this all day so here goes!!! according to the ukba knowledge of life immigration rules guidance v2.0 valid from the 15 august (55 pages in all !) see page 13!!!!! it states " the life in the uk test is intended for those whose english is equivalent or better than esol entry level 3! this includes people who speek english as a first language! people who pass the test do not have to produce further proof of their knowledge of the english language! this is because to pass the test they will need to be competent in english! so surely this means my wife can take the life in the uk test and thats all she needs to include in her leave to enter visa application ! this entry above is from the ukbas own guidance notes!

[Guest jonzboy]

iv been studieing this all day so here goes!!! according to the ukba knowledge of life immigration rules guidance v2.0 valid from the 15 august (55 pages in all !) see page 13!!!!! it states " the life in the uk test is intended for those whose english is equivalent or better than esol entry level 3! this includes people who speek english as a first language! people who pass the test do not have to produce further proof of their knowledge of the english language! this is because to pass the test they will need to be competent in english! so surely this means my wife can take the life in the uk test and thats all she needs to include in her leave to enter visa application ! this entry above is from the ukbas own guidance notes!

Terry

your logic is sound and the UKBA's rules are clear, so it is important to get UKBA to accept that the KOL test pass should exempt an applicant from this new English language test, after all, applicants like yourself (and my wife who took the KOL test before applying for her settlement visa) are encouraged to do this and will save UKBA some work and save the applicant £££s

[scouseterry]

iv been studieing this all day so here goes!!! according to the ukba knowledge of life immigration rules guidance v2.0 valid from the 15 august (55 pages in all !) see page 13!!!!! it states " the life in the uk test is intended for those whose english is equivalent or better than esol entry level 3! this includes people who speek english as a first language! people who pass the test do not have to produce further proof of their knowledge of the english language! this is because to pass the test they will need to be competent in english! so surely this means my wife can take the life in the uk test and thats all she needs to include in her leave to enter visa application ! this entry above is from the ukbas own guidance notes!

Terry

your logic is sound and the UKBA's rules are clear, so it is important to get UKBA to accept that the KOL test pass should exempt an applicant from this new English language test, after all, applicants like yourself (and my wife who took the KOL test before applying for her settlement visa) are encouraged to do this and will save UKBA some work and save the applicant £££s

jonzboy

thanks for your reply! when your wife applied for her settlement visa was this her first application and was it done from bkk vfs! my wife will be applying for the initial 27month settlement visa and not indefinate leave to remain as she hasnt spent the required time here in england ! "o" and did she get it ? i think the actual wording for the requirements on the ukba website are not clear enough, they should just list the requirements in plain english eg !

initial settlement visa (applied for from abroad) requires one and only one of the following

1- life in the uk test

2-an acredited english language qualification (and give a list of the qualification requirements)

it would make it easier for people to understand ! also for indefinate leave to remain the applicant should just have to do the life in the uk test! after all they would have been here 2 years + and should have inproved their english anyway!

[7by7]

As with most changes, the published rules and guidelines don't actually include the change until the day it comes into effect; which makes it difficult for those planning ahead!

However, a little bit of searching has found this, which includes

After paragraph 281(i) (a)(i) insert;

"(ii) the applicant provides an original English language test certificate in speaking and listening from an English language test provider approved by the Secretary of State for these purposes, which clearly shows the applicant's name and the qualification obtained (which must meet or exceed level A1 of the Common European Framework of Reference)

(My emphasis)

It seems to me that although the LitUK test is written, the standard does exceed level A1, so it should be acceptable. However, I would like some form of official confirmation before stating definitely that this is so. I'll see if I can get anyone at the UKBA or Home Office to provide such confirmation.

BTW Scouseterry, can I ask you to be less liberal with your use of exclamation marks!? It will make your posts easier to read, for me at least.

[bangkockney]

This is certainly a most astute and interesting question.

My opinion is thus:

The English requirement was introduced with the express intent of testing listening and speaking skills.

I do not see how the LitUK test is able to asses anything but reading skills. Nor does it provide a score which has been graded in any way and therefore can not be mapped to the CEFR.

Further, the LitUK test is not included on the list of approved testing partners (which an ECO would make reference to / be trained with).

I would therefore not think it acceptable for demonstrating English ability to any particular standard.

Whilst this does seem illogical, the UKBA places great emphasis on the lists and Registers it maintains. If it does not appear on the official list I think one could safely assume it would not be valid.

I too am interested in the response (if any) given by the Embassy, Home Office and UKBA.

[scouseterry]

As with most changes, the published rules and guidelines don't actually include the change until the day it comes into effect; which makes it difficult for those planning ahead!

However, a little bit of searching has found this, which includes

After paragraph 281(i) (a)(i) insert;

"(ii) the applicant provides an original English language test certificate in speaking and listening from an English language test provider approved by the Secretary of State for these purposes, which clearly shows the applicant's name and the qualification obtained (which must meet or exceed level A1 of the Common European Framework of Reference)

(My emphasis)

It seems to me that although the LitUK test is written, the standard does exceed level A1, so it should be acceptable. However, I would like some form of official confirmation before stating definitely that this is so. I'll see if I can get anyone at the UKBA or Home Office to provide such confirmation.

BTW Scouseterry, can I ask you to be less liberal with your use of exclamation marks!? It will make your posts easier to read, for me at least.

official confirmation is whats needed, it will help a lot of people with their applications. im not a teacher qualified to assess my wifes english so im just going to let her take the test after some study . if she passes its a big bonus as shes not allowed to study here on her present six month visit visa. thirty odd pound and she could be a winner, fail and its not to expensive . ill wait to see if you get any answers from those in authority! this is going to be very helpful ,thanks for your interest!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[scouseterry]

This is certainly a most astute and interesting question.

My opinion is thus:

The English requirement was introduced with the express intent of testing listening and speaking skills.

I do not see how the LitUK test is able to asses anything but reading skills. Nor does it provide a score which has been graded in any way and therefore can not be mapped to the CEFR.

Further, the LitUK test is not included on the list of approved testing partners (which an ECO would make reference to / be trained with).

I would therefore not think it acceptable for demonstrating English ability to any particular standard.

Whilst this does seem illogical, the UKBA places great emphasis on the lists and Registers it maintains. If it does not appear on the official list I think one could safely assume it would not be valid.

I too am interested in the response (if any) given by the Embassy, Home Office and UKBA.

hi , if its not on the list then why is it needed for indefinate leave to remain! if its not on the official list then the requirement to have the life in the uk test is invalid and should be withdraw by the ukba! what standard is this test at ? your telling me even the ukba dont know ! thats impossible ! lets see what they have to say ! my life and many others will be depending on thier answer! this is getting interesting , thanks for your replys!

[bangkockney]

hi , if its not on the list then why is it needed for indefinate leave to remain! if its not on the official list then the requirement to have the life in the uk test is invalid and should be withdraw by the ukba! what standard is this test at ? your telling me even the ukba dont know ! thats impossible ! lets see what they have to say ! my life and many others will be depending on thier answer! this is getting interesting , thanks for your replys!

I think confusion is arising because there are two different requirements:

1) The study of citizenship material.

2) Showing you have English speaking and listening skills at level A1.

I hope you see the difference?

These are not interchangeable as far as I can deduce. However you are right, we need official confirmation.

[scouseterry]

hi , if its not on the list then why is it needed for indefinate leave to remain! if its not on the official list then the requirement to have the life in the uk test is invalid and should be withdraw by the ukba! what standard is this test at ? your telling me even the ukba dont know ! thats impossible ! lets see what they have to say ! my life and many others will be depending on thier answer! this is getting interesting , thanks for your replys!

I think confusion is arising because there are two different requirements:

1) The study of citizenship material.

2) Showing you have English speaking and listening skills at level A1.

I hope you see the difference?

These are not interchangeable as far as I can deduce. However you are right, we need official confirmation.

yes i understand ! thanks