Smokescreen Of Thai Patriotism Can't Hide Our Failings

[sunanta]

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

Quite opposite, I somehow feel that this article was actually written by a young Thai lady (or someone with a feminine touch)

they all have a bit of a feminine touch around here

[billd766]

"in a country where prostitutes speak better English than most ministers"

oh, glorious quote!

I would venture to suggest that not only do they speak better English they also keep the customers happy and satisfied which is more than most politicians do for their constituents.

i looked up the piece in the Nation and it was not attributed to any specific columnist.

Edited October 23, 2010 by billd766

[siampolee]

Yet at the end of the day English is the second language of the area from whence these aforementioned came from. It proves that being invaded and indeed colonised is perhaps not such a bad thing after all.

If you had taken the time to read and inwardly digest that which was written it would have been plain to see that the reference to colonisation referred to the colonisation and the absorbing of other cultures and languages that actually made English the language it is now.

The colonisation refers to the oral colonisation of the states mentioned.

Indeed I agree my history dates were skewed, no morning coffee and I do not function well.

Thank you for the correction concerning history Foggy Bottom.

Being a old as I am I am part of history.

I sometimes forget to engage brain prior to engaging keyboard and thus assume that people can understand the comments made.

I am fallible, unlike some of the posters here.

There are no hard feelings, pricking the balloon of pomposity is indeed a fine trait.

The lesson learnt is to post in simple format so explanations are not needed for the more erudite amongst us.

[animatic]

But in a country where prostitutes speak better English than most ministers,

perhaps we should be more humble about our aims.

A rather damning critique...

What amazes is that someone so obviously stupid can be the education minister! Yes FACE is the bane of Thailand's stagger towards progress and world competitiveness. No falling back on old jingoist saws about Thailand being better than all others will give it parity with it's neighbors and access to a market place as part of ASEAN.

Ministers like this lose more face than they think they gain

by idiotic statements like this.

We can't make English the national 2nd language

or people will think were were colonized.

Well Minister Dimbulb, your father came close to speaking Japanese as a second language. If a farang can understand you history better than you, how can you be in charge of all the history teachers?

Edited October 23, 2010 by animatic

[Xangsamhua]

The Minister's excuse was silly. He knows it. Everyone knows it, but it removes a source of pressure for him.

The Minister is unable to speak English well enough to memorize a few sentences to open an international education event (I've been to two where he's either opened the proceedings in Thai or read a prepared speech really badly). His Deputy's English is, if anything, worse. Having an Education Minister who can't speak English in this century is like having one who can't read or add up.

However, Thailand will not introduce substantive reform to its education system. It will improve quantitatively (better resourced, smaller classes, etc) over time but will continue to teach in similar ways and with a similar leadership and management culture to what we have now. I think we have to acknowledge this. It's like after 20 years or so, when we realize our spouse is not going to change or get better or become like some other ideal, we just have to accept that that's the way s/he is.

The well-educated, foreign-educated and English speaking graduates will not be attracted to teaching for the same reason they are not attracted to it in many countries - pay and conditions are poor, students are unmotivated, classes are too big, and teaching lacks status. Countries like Finland and Singapore are exceptions in this regard.

Face and unaccountability are major obstacles to reform and improvement. I don't see any real pressure in Thailand to remove these obstacles.

[lubbkis]

Moreover, Chinnaworn is completely wrong to suggest that the countries that use English are former British colonies.

Take the Scandinavian countries, for example; they have never once been invaded by the British and yet still opted for English as their second language.

Why? Because it makes sense to them commercially, diplomatically, educationally, logistically - the list goes on.

As an Englishman born and bred, whatever mix of genes that may be I would like to point out that we were in fact invaded by the Vikings more than a time or two,

Those Vikings were of Nordic extraction and like their later followers the Romans the Normans and a few other motley crew of insurgents they left their genetic stamp upon us having conquered and colonised us.

Yet at the end of the day English is the second language of the area from whence these aforementioned came from. It proves that being invaded and indeed colonised is perhaps not such a bad thing after all.

Whether we like it or not there is no such thing as a pure bred Englishman, American ,Italian , Frenchman, Thai Singaporean, Burmese, Russian or even Chinese or Thai.

We are all mongrels, descended from strays that roamed around on sea or land, nationalism is the defence of the failure of a person or a state to actually be able to compete in the world..

To be a good patriot, a man must consider his countrymen as God's creatures, and himself as accountable for his acting towards them.Bishop Berkeley,

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious .Oscar Wilde

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." And don't forget common criminals and charlatans.

Scandinavians have a relatively easy time learning English because there are few grammatical differences between Old Norse and English. We form verbs in the same way. The only major difference is in the formation of the definite article. Scandinavians append "-en" or "-et" to nouns. Scots shares a lot of vocabulary with Nordic languages e.g. bairns and lums, but 16th century technology gets French names in Swedish, thanks to the Bourbons, I believe.

As to Thai, why is it that after "one" and "two" most of their numbers bear an uncanny resemblance to Chinese. Could it be that until the Chinese merchants arrived, one, two, many was sufficient. Maybe a dialect of Chinese would be a more forward thinking choice of second language. As the PM was born amongst Geordies, you can't blame his erudite folks for sending him to Eton to pick up a pukha ehksent (sic). 555

[Xangsamhua]

As to Thai, why is it that after "one" and "two" most of their numbers bear an uncanny resemblance to Chinese. Could it be that until the Chinese merchants arrived, one, two, many was sufficient. Maybe a dialect of Chinese would be a more forward thinking choice of second language. As the PM was born amongst Geordies, you can't blame his erudite folks for sending him to Eton to pick up a pukha ehksent (sic). 555

___________________________________________________________________

I don't see much similarity between Thai and Chinese numbers, apart from 3 and 4 (and possibly 8), but acknowledge that Chinese could be a useful second language for many Thais. Indeed, it already is for many urban Sino-Thais.

Both languages being tonal, Thais already have an ear for tone and vowel length that minimises a significant barrier to speakers of non-tonal languages in learning Chinese. However, in general terms, Chinese is not as portable a language as English by any means, regardless of how many speak it as a first or second language. A few years ago, I saw an estimate of about 20 million people worldwide (other than Chinese nationals in China) learning Mandarin compared with about 250 million students of English in China alone.

There's also something to be said (and as a language teacher and administrator for 40 years I don't fully concede this) for language learning to be left until there's a clear motivation for the learner to learn a particular language, and then for that opportunity to be provided through specialist school or university programs or other institutes run by the military, civil service, large companies or private language teaching ventures.

The downside of this is that an early age is best for acquiring good oral competence, and the learning of a second language in school, when sufficient time is given to it by competent teachers, aids one's language awareness and sensitivity. It complements mother-tongue development and serves as a good foundation for further language learning if that is required later. However, the stolid, drip-feed kind of language learning that takes place in many schools - not only in Thailand - is painfully inefficient, as the three core ingredients for success are missing or minimal: exposure, motivation, and opportunity for use.

Bilingual education is the most efficient method of teaching English to school children, and is a popular option for middle-class, mainly urban, Thai parents, but as a nationwide approach it is expensive, either because foreign teachers must be hired or an extensive and costly training program for Thai teachers must be mounted and sustained for many years until Thai teachers have the ability and confidence to teach bilingually.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Xangsamhua

[SergeiY]

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

Your remark is an insult to the many Thai that are proficient in English , no matter who wrote it , I feel the article speaks loudly of some of the failings of Thailand , especially the fact that so little has been done by so many other than to point fingers .

No, Thai don't make a point of prostitutes speaking better English than politician and that other Thai with English skills have just rip off the tourists in mind. To bitch about that is more the style of some stupid farangs of the cheap charly nature. And when they got upset that their farangness and English language don't get accepted as superior by Thai the blame the Thai for being stupid nationalists or xenophobes.

This article is written by some English ignoramus and not a Thai.

But of course many of you will like it, i can understand that.

Edited October 23, 2010 by SergeiY

[mark45y]

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

All editorial comment at the Nartion is written by Thais. That's a fact.

Honest question. How do you know that is a fact?

[canuck1941]

... as the three core ingredients for success are missing or minimal: exposure, motivation, and opportunity for use. "

That's exactly it, Xangsamhua. Any progress on one arm of this triangle will lead to progress on the others.

Exposure. Forty minutes once a week ain't gonna cut it. But six minutes a day can get the ball rolling. I used to have those with internet log onto BBC for Kids, National Geographic, and so on, my nefarious goal to get them into the habit of tuning in to English every day, every coffee break, every opportunity. As long as they developed the habit.

Motivation is a toughie. Once I was able to run a course, 18 weeks of paragraph writing, where the students earned grades as they went along. They finished an assignment and earned points toward their final mark with an opportunity to rewrite and improve their pay, oops., I mean grade point. Pass was 75 or 80%. Penalties for late assignments and unexcused absences from class. Every student who wrote the final test/exam, which accounted for ten points of their final grade, already knew he or she had passed, and this was just icing on the cake, except for the super competitive who wanted to boast of the highest mark. The question of motivating them never really came up. Their destiny was in their own hands and they rose to the ocassion, although I should add these were university freshmen in China at a third tier university.

Opportunity for use. Another toughie. When you learn a foreign language in its country, opportunities for use abound. sometimes you just want to get away from it all for awhile.Time to get creative.

Thank you for an excellent post.

[SergeiY]

Well Minister Dimbulb, your father came close to speaking Japanese as a second language. If a farang can understand you history better than you, how can you be in charge of all the history teachers?

That "Minister Dimbulb" is a bigwig of the Democrats Party and education policy is the main domain of the Democrats.

That is one of the point the farang writer of this article and the dimwit farang readers of the article didn't realise, otherwise the arguments would be quite different.

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from? And why that kind of comments came mostly from native English speakers?

[Thai at Heart]

Well Minister Dimbulb, your father came close to speaking Japanese as a second language. If a farang can understand you history better than you, how can you be in charge of all the history teachers?

That "Minister Dimbulb" is a bigwig of the Democrats Party and education policy is the main domain of the Democrats.

That is one of the point the farang writer of this article and the dimwit farang readers of the article didn't realise, otherwise the arguments would be quite different.

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from? And why that kind of comments came mostly from native English speakers?

Because at least most of the "farang" respondents are talking from a point of reality. Unfortunately, when a minister of education talks about learning English possibly undermining "Thai" history, he is, in the opinion of anyone who can bother to read a history book, starting from a point of delusion.

[MAJIC]

Moreover, Chinnaworn is completely wrong to suggest that the countries that use English are former British colonies.

Take the Scandinavian countries, for example; they have never once been invaded by the British and yet still opted for English as their second language.

Why? Because it makes sense to them commercially, diplomatically, educationally, logistically - the list goes on.

As an Englishman born and bred, whatever mix of genes that may be I would like to point out that we were in fact invaded by the Vikings more than a time or two,

Those Vikings were of Nordic extraction and like their later followers the Romans the Normans and a few other motley crew of insurgents they left their genetic stamp upon us having conquered and colonised us.

Yet at the end of the day English is the second language of the area from whence these aforementioned came from. It proves that being invaded and indeed colonised is perhaps not such a bad thing after all.

Whether we like it or not there is no such thing as a pure bred Englishman, American ,Italian , Frenchman, Thai Singaporean, Burmese, Russian or even Chinese or Thai.

We are all mongrels, descended from strays that roamed around on sea or land, nationalism is the defence of the failure of a person or a state to actually be able to compete in the world..

To be a good patriot, a man must consider his countrymen as God's creatures, and himself as accountable for his acting towards them.Bishop Berkeley,

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious .Oscar Wilde

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." And don't forget common criminals and charlatans.

The author points out that Scandinavia was never colonized by England, and then you make a point of contradicting him by pointing out that Vikings invaded Britain?

Please give me some ESL Thai students posting here. At least they make sense...

S

The Vikings did indeed Invade Britain and furthermore,Colonised the British for 267 years!

Followed by the Roman Colonisation, 400 years,and the Normans etc,making the full Colonisation of the British, up to 900 years in total.

So no surprise of the choice of second language,for the above.

Thailand will have to make their own choice,

Considering the heavy financial Chinese influence in their Country? who knows what the best choice may be?

Edited October 23, 2010 by MAJIC

[SergeiY]

Well Minister Dimbulb, your father came close to speaking Japanese as a second language. If a farang can understand you history better than you, how can you be in charge of all the history teachers?

That "Minister Dimbulb" is a bigwig of the Democrats Party and education policy is the main domain of the Democrats.

That is one of the point the farang writer of this article and the dimwit farang readers of the article didn't realise, otherwise the arguments would be quite different.

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from? And why that kind of comments came mostly from native English speakers?

Because at least most of the "farang" respondents are talking from a point of reality. Unfortunately, when a minister of education talks about learning English possibly undermining "Thai" history, he is, in the opinion of anyone who can bother to read a history book, starting from a point of delusion.

Prostitutes that speak better English than other Thai are a very very very little small part of the Thai reality. Don't over value that because its the only part of the Thai reality you know.

And now you can go back to your version of Thai reality, i am sure they will tell you that you are handsome and that you are the best.

[erayburn]

The advantage of English over Thai lies in it's precision of meaning. When I used to proctor exams with other Thai professors, I would ask them which language would they prefer to use to write an academic article for publication. The response was a 100% preference for English (sample size about 20). My Thai wife is a lawyer, who happens to be fairly proficient in English, but her law degree is from a Thai university. I asked her whether whether she would rather write a legal document in English or Thai. Without hesitation, she said English is much easier. Several years ago, I asked a leading Thai authority on Information Technology if there was a software compiler written in Thai. He started laughing and said no and that it was unlikely there ever would be because the Thai language is not very deterministic (having a unique meaning). All people may be created equal, but all languages are not. For communication of everyday topics of saying hello or where shall we go for lunch, there is perhaps no difference. For a comprehensive discussion of what is the difference between existentialism compared to transcendentalism, I think language may make a difference. The issue is how can Thailand catch up in science and technology, or philosophy, or what ever, unless the people can think and communicate to each other at a level of precision capable of capturing the subtle distinctions necessary to gain the deepest appreciation of the topic. We must be able to leverage the knowledge of other people. Without command of English, Thai people can only utilize the knowledge created by Thai people. They may never catch up but fall farther and farther behind. Everything we think uses language (I'm not talking about feelings, but rational thoughts). What we can or cannot think is limited by our language. Meaning is much more than a dictionary definition. If it wasn't, then we would not need to go to school. We could simply read the dictionary and become smart. To think, we must be able to use language. It also works the other way. In George Orwell's famous book 1984, the totalitarian government controlled (one way) its citizens by eliminating words from the language so people could not form thoughts that the government didn't want. I'm not suggesting such a conspiracy exists in Thailand, rather thinkers and writers of the past have recognized the profound impact the development of a language has on social, economic and political development. Thailand as a nation, not just as an education system, needs to adopt English to accelerate development.

[animatic]

Easy enough to know that the minister was in the Dems.

It also didn't change the fact M. Dimbulb doesn't have a clue,

no matter what his position in any party.

Seems we have inhereted a cast off from the Troll Of the Month club,

and it just won't run out of air till it turns blue in the feces.

I don't mind dissenting opinion, occasionally it is quite illuminating,

but continual, arbitrarily contrarian, onslaughts with nastiness as S.O.P.

is wearing and useless. Oh and that style RARELY makes it's points, just noise.

Edited October 23, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

There has to be a verifiable reason why English language has become the

defecto language of world wide business, and the preferred 2nd language

of most nations citizens with anything resembling an outward looking viewpoint.

And it isn't US cultural hegemony, or Hollywood, or arrogant tourists.

The likely reason is it's deterministic nature and precision of phrasing.

Chances are if you go anywhere in the world and try to converse with the locals,

someone there will try out English with before any other language,

and that is not by accident.

I'm all for protecting from loss all the other languages of the world,

but when going from place to place it is good to have one lingua universalis

that will get your from point A to point B with a meal in your stomach in safety.

[Chalky]

Hmm, first the article by Dr. Sawai Boonma (http://sawaiboonma.com/a-guide-to-the-perfect-thai-idiot)in the Bangkok Post and now this in the Nation - is the wheel finally turning?!

Don't get me wrong, I'm not Thai bashing and of course we all cede to arguements/thoughts that support our own beliefs (with apologies to all altruists) but if we can please have articles like this - plus their arguements of course - widely published in Thai in print and on TV/radio then maybe that would be a start.

Just my two cents/pence/baht/etc worth.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Chalky

[lungmi]

There has to be a verifiable reason why English language has become the

defecto language of world wide business, and the preferred 2nd language

of most nations citizens with anything resembling an outward looking viewpoint.

And it isn't US cultural hegemony, or Hollywood, or arrogant tourists.

The likely reason is it's deterministic nature and precision of phrasing.

Chances are if you go anywhere in the world and try to converse with the locals,

someone there will try out English with before any other language,

and that is not by accident.

I'm all for protecting from loss all the other languages of the world,

but when going from place to place it is good to have one lingua universalis

that will get your from point A to point B with a meal in your stomach in safety.

I agree . For technics, economics, science it`s true. As pragmatic survival language too.. For Human Science it`s a little bit different.

[sgiandubh]

A sensibly written original post by someone that obviously has a grasp of the big picture.

Thailand is a fine country and I really enjoy living here but if it really does want to aspire to greater things then it simply has to adapt and change with the times.

Like it or not, English is the only international language and Thailands 'so called leaders' would do well to recognise this. To keep their fellow countrymen in a state of educational ignorance is keeping the country in the proverbial dark ages for generations to come.

Waken up Thailand and come into the present century.

[Thai at Heart]

Well Minister Dimbulb, your father came close to speaking Japanese as a second language. If a farang can understand you history better than you, how can you be in charge of all the history teachers?

That "Minister Dimbulb" is a bigwig of the Democrats Party and education policy is the main domain of the Democrats.

That is one of the point the farang writer of this article and the dimwit farang readers of the article didn't realise, otherwise the arguments would be quite different.

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from? And why that kind of comments came mostly from native English speakers?

Because at least most of the "farang" respondents are talking from a point of reality. Unfortunately, when a minister of education talks about learning English possibly undermining "Thai" history, he is, in the opinion of anyone who can bother to read a history book, starting from a point of delusion.

Prostitutes that speak better English than other Thai are a very very very little small part of the Thai reality. Don't over value that because its the only part of the Thai reality you know.

And now you can go back to your version of Thai reality, i am sure they will tell you that you are handsome and that you are the best.

As of yet, you know not one iota of my Thai reality, and I would hope that before you hand out such blunt insults as this, you should learn a few more manners.

I have been in and around this forums for many years, and have never ever stooped so low as to infer how anyone lives their life. I have always tried to be fair and balanced in the views that I have which have been gleaned over considerable time in the country.

I am glad that you know so much about my reality, because after putting my two kids to bed and having dinner with my wife, I will be off somehow to Kalasin to try to work out how to regrow a massive crop of export crops. So before you infer that you have a better handle on the REALITY of Thailand, I suggest that you think before you type.

Good night, and I hope that you learn a few manners about how to live in this country, because many Thai's would not be so forgiving.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[SergeiY]

As of yet, you know not one iota of my Thai reality, and I would hope that before you hand out such blunt insults as this, you should learn a few more manners.

I have been in and around this forums for many years, and have never ever stooped so low as to infer how anyone lives their life. I have always tried to be fair and balanced in the views that I have which have been gleaned over considerable time in the country.

I am glad that you know so much about my reality, because after putting my two kids to bed and having dinner with my wife, I will be off somehow to Kalasin to try to work out how to regrow a massive crop of export crops. So before you infer that you have a better handle on the REALITY of Thailand, I suggest that you think before you type.

Good night, and I hope that you learn a few manners about how to live in this country, because many Thai's would not be so forgiving.

pfff

You showed off your self centered-ego and skills in bitching about the locals and your view on them with your stereotypes.

[Thai at Heart]

pfff

You showed off your self centered-ego and skills in bitching about the locals and your view on them with your stereotypes.

Just replace Thailand with "North Korea" and see how much better it reads.

Now it seems appropriate for a country as whacked out and crazy as North Korea to utter such complete and utter nonsense. If ever there was a better example of face saving, keeping the people stupid and complete incompetence, this is it.

On one thread Abhisit is saying that students are the priority of education authority. On another the education minister thinks that having a mandated second language is bad. These people are so completely incompetent it is not funny any more. Where is this country going to be in 30 years time? The laws covering investment in the country are already restrictive enough because of a smokescreen of protectionism to protect old Thai/Chinese money. Now the population is being told that to mandate English as a second language will confuse their nationalistic rote learnt and distinctly modified history.

The education ministers of the rest of Asean, South Korea and China will choke on their fruit loops this morning if they see this headline.

I can't think of any other country in the world (except maybe North Korea) where a statement like this from an education minister wouldn't result in being fired. In fact, heavy labour in North Korea might be to light a punishment for a person charged with making education policy in a country.

"We are Thailand, we don't need no education......."

Because at least most of the "farang" respondents are talking from a point of reality. Unfortunately, when a [b]minister of education[/b] talks about learning English possibly undermining "Thai" history, he is, in the opinion of anyone who can bother to read a history book, starting from a point of delusion.

Please point out at which point I insulted "the locals". If you consider, the education minister representative of the locals, I will canvass opinion tomorrow over somtaam and red ant soup.

The problem in this country, most definitely is not the locals.

Edited October 23, 2010 by Thai at Heart

[SergeiY]

^^

look here again:

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from? And why that kind of comments came mostly from native English speakers?

Because at least most of the "farang" respondents are talking from a point of reality. ...

pffff

Just "pffff", i am not in the mood to explain it to you and actually gave already a reply to it.

[OzMick]

IMHO (Russians should try that though humility is not their strong point) Why would bar girls ( I hesitate to use the perjorative "prostitute," and I strongly recommend anyone not to use the thai "so-pee-nee") NOT be the best speakers of English in Thailand? There is an obvious financial incentive/motivation and they are exposed to the language up to 12 hrs/day.

They also have strong communal support and assistance from their co-workers, and where I live, a pool of expats with some Thai to help with pronunciation, translation, spelling and idiom.

I force myself to drink 4 or 5 beers each night, on medical advice, and prefer to do so in a social setting. I know quite a few lovely ladies who regularly seek my advice on English usage, and my gf/assistant is quite happy with that. Having travelled outside Thailand, she knows how limited (geographically) thai language is.

Off topic, the most stupid language decision I have ever heard of was in East Timor. On independence, they rejected Bahasa due to strong feelings against Indonesia and having no common language other, elected for Portuguese, which very few people in the country speak. Madness.

[rametindallas]

Well Minister Dimbulb, your father came close to speaking Japanese as a second language. If a farang can understand you history better than you, how can you be in charge of all the history teachers?

That "Minister Dimbulb" is a bigwig of the Democrats Party and education policy is the main domain of the Democrats.

That is one of the point the farang writer of this article and the dimwit farang readers of the article didn't realise, otherwise the arguments would be quite different.

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from? And why that kind of comments came mostly from native English speakers?

"Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from?"

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the other posters on this forum' coming from?

[animatic]

Well Minister Dimbulb, your father came close to speaking Japanese as a second language. If a farang can understand you history better than you, how can you be in charge of all the history teachers?

That "Minister Dimbulb" is a bigwig of the Democrats Party and education policy is the main domain of the Democrats.

That is one of the point the farang writer of this article and the dimwit farang readers of the article didn't realise, otherwise the arguments would be quite different.

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from? And why that kind of comments came mostly from native English speakers?

"Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from?"

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the other posters on this forum' coming from?

My point is that

for the 'Minister' to back track from supporting English as a 2nd language is one thing, Contradicting his own PM within days wasn't particularly wise, but not untypical here.

But to do it because he says he thinks outside people will 'think the country was once colonized' if they see English as it's official 2nd language is kow towing to jingoist claptrap and paranoia. Or just plain foolish thinking.

Now, never forgetting that Japan actually did invade, and take control, of Thailand for several years, it is disingenuous to say that there was never and outside power running Thailand. Hence the comment on Japanese as nearly becoming the official second language of Thailand...

Ah, but the Ed Min. seems to have excised that bit of history off the books.

The realities of history are not a political football, or shouldn't ever be.

Nationalist paranoia should never be the bedrock of education policy.

As this sits, it shows both his lack of a grasp of history, as well as a very poor judgment set versus what the world thinks about Thailand, and his decision making abilities. Sorry minister, but adopting a 2nd language does not imply colonization, it just implies an outward looking mind set, in the modern communication age.

If I can grasp this fact set about Thai history,

then why can't the Thai Minister of Education?

If he can't, then he shouldn't have the job.

If he deliberately won't, then same answer.

Edited October 23, 2010 by animatic

[animatic]

Pffff = I have no adequate response.

So the insults I left will stand, and I don't care if you can think or not.

The more the points lost, the more the bile rises.Trollish posters often find they meed extra Maalox at hand, as their tenure creeps by.

Weighing in against some of the more lucid and experienced minds here,

and not successfully making points, and only leaving a trail of insults,

generally makes for an ineffective stay here. Unless 'the check is in the mail', or the frail ego takes a sound drubbing and eventually the poster changes tactics. In the later case eventually mistakes are still made, and mods foreclose on another dreary incident.

Edited October 23, 2010 by animatic

[SergeiY]

Well Minister Dimbulb, your father came close to speaking Japanese as a second language. If a farang can understand you history better than you, how can you be in charge of all the history teachers?

That "Minister Dimbulb" is a bigwig of the Democrats Party and education policy is the main domain of the Democrats.

That is one of the point the farang writer of this article and the dimwit farang readers of the article didn't realise, otherwise the arguments would be quite different.

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from? And why that kind of comments came mostly from native English speakers?

"Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the locals' coming from?"

Where does this idiot attitude to think 'i am much smarter than the other posters on this forum' coming from?

That is an easy question. It are the typical foreign tourists, coming from a 'civilisation' they consider better and they look down at the locals and bitching about them.

You know, these dudes with an attitude that all locals should be so thankful to Americans, because if they hadn't nuked the Japanese all the Thai would speak Japanese now, but thanks America they have now prostitutes that speak better American than the education minister.... arguments like that ...

IMHO these dudes are wackos, if you don't understand it you are probably one of them.

[animatic]

I don't care where I am, or who is native or foreign, or just passing through,

illogical words and actions are that in any culture. Illogical statements by

politicians and those running departments of countries deserve approbation

regardless of where they are, or where you come from.

You can also spend enough time in a culture to have a solid idea if

someone is talking out their ass or their hat, or from a considered,

logical opinion, based on due consideration of facts.

When people are part of the mechanism running a nation they should not

be above getting called in the carpet for being obtuse and blind to realities.

Edited October 23, 2010 by animatic