Thai Red-Shirts To Petition UN Chief Over Killings

[whybother]

I'd love to be there when he explains how 10 soldiers were killed and 400+ injured. Explanations on the numbers killed and injured by RPG rounds would be good too.

Friendly fire? Bound to happen when meta amphetamine high soldiers go rampaging and killing 80+ civilians and injures 2600 more...

Friendly fire? I didn't know the army were using RPGs. Funny how no protesters got injured by RPGs.

The army killed their own in friendly fire. At some road check point. but not with RPGs.

How many people got injured with by RPGs and who fired them?

1 army personel possibly killed by friendly fire when the red shirts went on a tour near Don Meuang.

The colonel killed by a grenade attack on April 10. Civilians and coloured-shirt protesters killed and injured around Silom. 60 or so grenade attacks over the last year or 2 ... all of them attacking army or "elite" locations. But no deaths or injuries of red shirts by grenades.

xminator is suggesting that all of the army casualties were friendly fire. But if the army were not using grenades, how could it be?

[SergeiY]

1 army personel possibly killed by friendly fire when the red shirts went on a tour near Don Meuang.

The colonel killed by a grenade attack on April 10. Civilians and coloured-shirt protesters killed and injured around Silom. 60 or so grenade attacks over the last year or 2 ... all of them attacking army or "elite" locations. But no deaths or injuries of red shirts by grenades.

xminator is suggesting that all of the army casualties were friendly fire. But if the army were not using grenades, how could it be?

There was another case at a road check point, not that Don Meuang case, were a soldier was killed by friendly fire.

Do you have a list of these 10 dead soldiers, with their names and the date they were killed? Do you know who killed them? Have you the explanation? As far as i know for the most of them we don't know it because the lack of any official investigation results. but you seems to know more.

And how you can exclude that no red shirts were killed or injured by grenades? Do you have a list of all dead red shirts and the cause of their death or the cause of injuries?

Edited October 25, 2010 by SergeiY

[rubl]

Take a deep breath and read my post again. I said I would like to hear ANY explanations for the deaths from EITHER the government OR the red shirts, I was commenting on the issue of the OP;

Thai Red-Shirts To Petition UN Chief Over Killings

not about peaceful protesters or terrorists or even the Zen building.

"As for 'all down to' that's your interpretation which I cannot support". Fair enough, that's your viewpoint, but I think that is the only interpretation to be made of a statement that reads

"the government claims the demonstrators were terrorists and were slain by unknown armed men in black suits"

Therefore the unknown armed men in black suits killed the demonstrators - If the black shirts killed the demonstrators it follows that the Army did not.

How can you argue against my "interpretation" of that statement, unless red shirts don't count as civilians?

It is easy to argue against your invalid arguments. You mix your metaphors and put snippets together as if they are related and/or true.

The government never said 'all demonstrators are terrorists', more like 'there are terrorists amongst the protesters' and 'armed militants'. 'If black shirts killed demonstrators' doesn't say 'all', so there were a few left for the army.

In general your comments tend to obfuscate, confuse the matter with semi-logical statements and suggestions without really and plainly stating 'red = good, government = bad'. Trolling, closet red-shirt supporter, one of the better ones amongst them.

I really do not know what I have done to upset you. I am not trolling, you seem to have already made your mind up about my comments and treat all as biased towards one particular faction. I say read again my post where I said that I would welcome explanations of the deaths from either the government or the red shirts. I haven't seen credible explanations from either party yet, apart from the one friendly fire incident involving the the army. The quotes that I have commented on are directly taken from the newspaper article in the OP. I'm not making them up. In my original post I asked the question as to whether the government or army had even made those remarks.

You're right in the sense that the OP from our esteemed newspaper 'The Nation' says 'The protesters accuse the government of using military force to kill them while the government claims the demonstrators were terrorists and were slain by unknown armed men in black suits.'

This is an over simplification which I haven't heard the government say. To my knowledge the government has branded 'black shirts' as first seen on April 10th as 'militant, terrorist red-shirts', or 'associated with'. If all demonstrators would be classified as 'terrorists' providing transport to have them brought home compliment of the taxpayer would not make sense.

Don't worry I'm not upset, slightly annoyed maybe, but only slightly.

Stay cool and keep smiling

PS after five months with everyone and his dog joining discussions, posting opinions (favoring or condemning any color) it takes a professional crime investigator to sort out the mess. Don't expect answers soon.

[phiphidon]

It is easy to argue against your invalid arguments. You mix your metaphors and put snippets together as if they are related and/or true.

The government never said 'all demonstrators are terrorists', more like 'there are terrorists amongst the protesters' and 'armed militants'. 'If black shirts killed demonstrators' doesn't say 'all', so there were a few left for the army.

In general your comments tend to obfuscate, confuse the matter with semi-logical statements and suggestions without really and plainly stating 'red = good, government = bad'. Trolling, closet red-shirt supporter, one of the better ones amongst them.

I really do not know what I have done to upset you. I am not trolling, you seem to have already made your mind up about my comments and treat all as biased towards one particular faction. I say read again my post where I said that I would welcome explanations of the deaths from either the government or the red shirts. I haven't seen credible explanations from either party yet, apart from the one friendly fire incident involving the the army. The quotes that I have commented on are directly taken from the newspaper article in the OP. I'm not making them up. In my original post I asked the question as to whether the government or army had even made those remarks.

You're right in the sense that the OP from our esteemed newspaper 'The Nation' says 'The protesters accuse the government of using military force to kill them while the government claims the demonstrators were terrorists and were slain by unknown armed men in black suits.'

This is an over simplification which I haven't heard the government say. To my knowledge the government has branded 'black shirts' as first seen on April 10th as 'militant, terrorist red-shirts', or 'associated with'. If all demonstrators would be classified as 'terrorists' providing transport to have them brought home compliment of the taxpayer would not make sense.

Don't worry I'm not upset, slightly annoyed maybe, but only slightly.

Stay cool and keep smiling

PS after five months with everyone and his dog joining discussions, posting opinions (favoring or condemning any color) it takes a professional crime investigator to sort out the mess. Don't expect answers soon.

At the risk of being accused of obfuscating or even trolling, the newspaper reporters may have been confused by an interview given to their rival by Gen Prayuth on the 6th October at his first press conference as Army Chief. Some interesting stuff in there, slightly scary in some ways,

"Prayut said the army was not responsible for the deaths of protesters."We are not killing or injuring them. We have told them not to join rallies again because lives are at risk when there are weapons involved," he said."

Edited October 25, 2010 by phiphidon

[hammered]

Take a deep breath and read my post again. I said I would like to hear ANY explanations for the deaths from EITHER the government OR the red shirts, I was commenting on the issue of the OP;

Thai Red-Shirts To Petition UN Chief Over Killings

not about peaceful protesters or terrorists or even the Zen building.

"As for 'all down to' that's your interpretation which I cannot support". Fair enough, that's your viewpoint, but I think that is the only interpretation to be made of a statement that reads

"the government claims the demonstrators were terrorists and were slain by unknown armed men in black suits"

Therefore the unknown armed men in black suits killed the demonstrators - If the black shirts killed the demonstrators it follows that the Army did not.

How can you argue against my "interpretation" of that statement, unless red shirts don't count as civilians?

It is easy to argue against your invalid arguments. You mix your metaphors and put snippets together as if they are related and/or true.

The government never said 'all demonstrators are terrorists', more like 'there are terrorists amongst the protesters' and 'armed militants'. 'If black shirts killed demonstrators' doesn't say 'all', so there were a few left for the army.

In general your comments tend to obfuscate, confuse the matter with semi-logical statements and suggestions without really and plainly stating 'red = good, government = bad'. Trolling, closet red-shirt supporter, one of the better ones amongst them.

I really do not know what I have done to upset you. I am not trolling, you seem to have already made your mind up about my comments and treat all as biased towards one particular faction. I say read again my post where I said that I would welcome explanations of the deaths from either the government or the red shirts. I haven't seen credible explanations from either party yet, apart from the one friendly fire incident involving the the army. The quotes that I have commented on are directly taken from the newspaper article in the OP. I'm not making them up. In my original post I asked the question as to whether the government or army had even made those remarks.

You're right in the sense that the OP from our esteemed newspaper 'The Nation' says 'The protesters accuse the government of using military force to kill them while the government claims the demonstrators were terrorists and were slain by unknown armed men in black suits.'

This is an over simplification which I haven't heard the government say. To my knowledge the government has branded 'black shirts' as first seen on April 10th as 'militant, terrorist red-shirts', or 'associated with'. If all demonstrators would be classified as 'terrorists' providing transport to have them brought home compliment of the taxpayer would not make sense.

Don't worry I'm not upset, slightly annoyed maybe, but only slightly.

Stay cool and keep smiling

PS after five months with everyone and his dog joining discussions, posting opinions (favoring or condemning any color) it takes a professional crime investigator to sort out the mess. Don't expect answers soon.

No professional crime investigator would be able to sort this out. The crime scenes were destroyed before anyone ever got to them, not by intention in all likelihood but because they existed in chaos. Autopsies wont tell anything except how death happened but certainly not by whom. The video evidence on public display over the course of events suggests it is likely there wasnt a single responsible source from a single particular side and that is about as far as it will go. Of course it will be polticised by all for their own ends but that will have little to do with truth

In the final analysis people will believe what they want on this depending on their bias as few will accept it will always stay murky.

[chantorn]

No army / security officials were involved in any of the civilian deaths, it was all down to the "unknown armed men in black suits".

Keep repeating after me until you get it. Unlike the Men in Black, Army boys are not murderers.

[yellow1red1]

No professional crime investigator would be able to sort this out. The crime scenes were destroyed before anyone ever got to them, not by intention in all likelihood but because they existed in chaos. Autopsies wont tell anything except how death happened but certainly not by whom. The video evidence on public display over the course of events suggests it is likely there wasnt a single responsible source from a single particular side and that is about as far as it will go. Of course it will be polticised by all for their own ends but that will have little to do with truth

In the final analysis people will believe what they want on this depending on their bias as few will accept it will always stay murky.

several survivors of gunshot wounds could show investigators exactly where and in what position they were to, at the very least, show where the bullets were coming from, bets on same/same trajectory of the seh daeng killing?

Edit;;; not that knowing would make one iota of difference to NORMALising

Edited October 26, 2010 by yellow1red1

[rubl]

No professional crime investigator would be able to sort this out. The crime scenes were destroyed before anyone ever got to them, not by intention in all likelihood but because they existed in chaos. Autopsies wont tell anything except how death happened but certainly not by whom. The video evidence on public display over the course of events suggests it is likely there wasnt a single responsible source from a single particular side and that is about as far as it will go. Of course it will be polticised by all for their own ends but that will have little to do with truth

In the final analysis people will believe what they want on this depending on their bias as few will accept it will always stay murky.

several survivors of gunshot wounds could show investigators exactly where and in what position they were to, at the very least, show where the bullets were coming from, bets on same/same trajectory of the seh daeng killing?

Edit;;; not that knowing would make one iota of difference to NORMALising

Most survivors would only have a hazy idea after so many months. Being shot traumatizes people to a point were even a suggestion may be taken as truth. More so with the very first suggestion. Ask trauma teams which handle disasters in the West. To show where the bullets came from? It may hit you before you hear the sound and in a city the sounds gets echoed and distorted. Even a serious crime team would have a problem with this mess.

Anyway, by now people believe what they believe along the lines of their conviction politically, color-wise, whatever. Set in concrete, or as some have told me: 'I saw it with my own eyes'

[jayboy]

Army boys are not murderers.

History proves you wrong.

[webfact]

Related topic

UN Sec-Gen Meets Thai PM As Red Shirts Submit Petition At UN Bangkok asking for political asylum for red shirt leaders

Follow this link:

[phiphidon]

No professional crime investigator would be able to sort this out. The crime scenes were destroyed before anyone ever got to them, not by intention in all likelihood but because they existed in chaos. Autopsies wont tell anything except how death happened but certainly not by whom. The video evidence on public display over the course of events suggests it is likely there wasnt a single responsible source from a single particular side and that is about as far as it will go. Of course it will be polticised by all for their own ends but that will have little to do with truth

In the final analysis people will believe what they want on this depending on their bias as few will accept it will always stay murky.

several survivors of gunshot wounds could show investigators exactly where and in what position they were to, at the very least, show where the bullets were coming from, bets on same/same trajectory of the seh daeng killing?

Edit;;; not that knowing would make one iota of difference to NORMALising

Most survivors would only have a hazy idea after so many months. Being shot traumatizes people to a point were even a suggestion may be taken as truth. More so with the very first suggestion. Ask trauma teams which handle disasters in the West. To show where the bullets came from? It may hit you before you hear the sound and in a city the sounds gets echoed and distorted. Even a serious crime team would have a problem with this mess.

Anyway, by now people believe what they believe along the lines of their conviction politically, color-wise, whatever. Set in concrete, or as some have told me: 'I saw it with my own eyes'

Here's a link to a pratchathai page regarding witness testimony at a meeting held on 25th September. There are reports of some people being fired on by soldiers and some who were not sure. And just for the sake of balance there's even a reporter who "has also been approached by Kanit Na Nakhon's committee and the Department of Special Investigation to give testimony. Hes aid that he was willing to give information to all sides. I've no problem. I'm a reporter and I just do my job. I have no anger against anybody. I just tell the truth, and am willing to talk to everybody,' he said.They seem to have a fairly good recollection of the events.

http://www.prachatai...glish/node/2058

'I've no problem. I'm a reporter and I just do my job. I have no anger against anybody. I just tell the truth,and am willing to talk to everybody,' he said.

[silp1979]

No army / security officials were involved in any of the civilian deaths, it was all down to the "unknown armed men in black suits".

Keep repeating after me until you get it. Unlike the Men in Black, Army boys are not murderers.

lol

[chantorn]

Khun Chuan, the Ex-PM already state it very clear ysterday that the 91 death are murdered by the Red-shirts themselves. It is already in the press. Here is the link.

http://www.khaosod.co.th/view_news.php?newsid=TUROd01ERXdOREkyTVRBMU13PT0

[chantorn]

No professional crime investigator would be able to sort this out. The crime scenes were destroyed before anyone ever got to them, not by intention in all likelihood but because they existed in chaos. Autopsies wont tell anything except how death happened but certainly not by whom. The video evidence on public display over the course of events suggests it is likely there wasnt a single responsible source from a single particular side and that is about as far as it will go. Of course it will be polticised by all for their own ends but that will have little to do with truth

In the final analysis people will believe what they want on this depending on their bias as few will accept it will always stay murky.

several survivors of gunshot wounds could show investigators exactly where and in what position they were to, at the very least, show where the bullets were coming from, bets on same/same trajectory of the seh daeng killing?

Edit;;; not that knowing would make one iota of difference to NORMALising

Most survivors would only have a hazy idea after so many months. Being shot traumatizes people to a point were even a suggestion may be taken as truth. More so with the very first suggestion. Ask trauma teams which handle disasters in the West. To show where the bullets came from? It may hit you before you hear the sound and in a city the sounds gets echoed and distorted. Even a serious crime team would have a problem with this mess.

Anyway, by now people believe what they believe along the lines of their conviction politically, color-wise, whatever. Set in concrete, or as some have told me: 'I saw it with my own eyes'

Here's a link to a pratchathai page regarding witness testimony at a meeting held on 25th September. There are reports of some people being fired on by soldiers and some who were not sure. And just for the sake of balance there's even a reporter who "has also been approached by Kanit Na Nakhon's committee and the Department of Special Investigation to give testimony. Hes aid that he was willing to give information to all sides. I've no problem. I'm a reporter and I just do my job. I have no anger against anybody. I just tell the truth, and am willing to talk to everybody,' he said.They seem to have a fairly good recollection of the events.

http://www.prachatai...glish/node/2058

'I've no problem. I'm a reporter and I just do my job. I have no anger against anybody. I just tell the truth,and am willing to talk to everybody,' he said.

Kanit Na Nakhon's committee is a red herring.

Where is the findings report?

Where are the autopsies, not even Seh Daeng autopsy report is even written yet.

[ianbaggie]

"We just want to tell the UN secretary-general the truth about what happened in this country," Jatuporn Promphan, a red-shirt leader and an MP from the opposition Pheu Thai Party, said yesterday.

Jatuporn has been pissing on truth for a decade.

I'd love to be there when he explains how 10 soldiers were killed and 400+ injured. Explanations on the numbers killed and injured by RPG rounds would be good too.

A lot of the injuries comes from tear gas.

BUT MOST came from the red shirts aggresiveness nature - yes or no Sergei? - so to say the Government isto blame for91 deaths is wrong, a lie and a joke!!

typical of Thaksins puppets

[ianbaggie]

"We just want to tell the UN secretary-general the truth about what happened in this country," Jatuporn Promphan, a red-shirt leader and an MP from the opposition Pheu Thai Party, said yesterday.

Jatuporn has been pissing on truth for a decade.

I'd love to be there when he explains how 10 soldiers were killed and 400+ injured. Explanations on the numbers killed and injured by RPG rounds would be good too.

I'd love to be anywhere when any explanations are made of any of the deaths and injuries by either the red shirts or the government. Guess I'll have to wait for the official report, but with comments like "the government claims the demonstrators were terrorists and were slain by unknown armed men in black suits", it seems like minds have already been made up, at least in some sections of the press. Or was that an official statement from the government or Army?. No army / security officials were involved in any of the civilian deaths, it was all down to the "unknown armed men in black suits" ?

I walked through the red shirt camp - saw the black shirt guards saw their guns - M16s and AK47s - so i personally woulD TOTALLY come down on the Governments side - i think they were EXTREMELY patient and restrained and handled the red shirt terrorism very well!!

Juthaporn youre a disillusioned clown and id like to meet you face to face - in the real world you wouldnt be an MP - just an umemployed statistic

[ianbaggie]

Phiphiden, You will find that supporting the red shirts here, 1 will be labeled as a Troll by certain 1 eyed Yellow/Government supporters here on Thai Visa...

They have no class.

NO sevenhills youve got it WRONG like red shirts ALWAYS DO!!

To hate the red shirts you dont have to be a yellow shirt - just a normal citizen with a sense of decency about liars, murderes, cheats and billionaire puppets!!

[ianbaggie]

I'd love to be there when he explains how 10 soldiers were killed and 400+ injured. Explanations on the numbers killed and injured by RPG rounds would be good too.

Friendly fire? Bound to happen when meta amphetamine high soldiers go rampaging and killing 80+ civilians and injures 2600 more...

Friendly fire? I didn't know the army were using RPGs. Funny how no protesters got injured by RPGs.

The army killed their own in friendly fire. At some road check point. but not with RPGs.

How many people got injured with by RPGs and who fired them?

Sergeiy - you really do ask some STUPID questions - look back over the news events for thye period - you really dont know which side was firing M79s - ok ill give you a clue - they were wearing RED SHIRTS!! - NO?

OK well heres another clue - they were the puppets of a billionaire disgraced former PM

Got it now? - ahhh good!!

[rubl]

Most survivors would only have a hazy idea after so many months. Being shot traumatizes people to a point were even a suggestion may be taken as truth. More so with the very first suggestion. Ask trauma teams which handle disasters in the West. To show where the bullets came from? It may hit you before you hear the sound and in a city the sounds gets echoed and distorted. Even a serious crime team would have a problem with this mess.

Anyway, by now people believe what they believe along the lines of their conviction politically, color-wise, whatever. Set in concrete, or as some have told me: 'I saw it with my own eyes'

Here's a link to a pratchathai page regarding witness testimony at a meeting held on 25th September. There are reports of some people being fired on by soldiers and some who were not sure. And just for the sake of balance there's even a reporter who "has also been approached by Kanit Na Nakhon's committee and the Department of Special Investigation to give testimony. Hes aid that he was willing to give information to all sides. I've no problem. I'm a reporter and I just do my job. I have no anger against anybody. I just tell the truth, and am willing to talk to everybody,' he said.They seem to have a fairly good recollection of the events.

http://www.prachatai...glish/node/2058

'I've no problem. I'm a reporter and I just do my job. I have no anger against anybody. I just tell the truth,and am willing to talk to everybody,' he said.

Prachatai link ? No surprise!

Till now the commissions setup to fill-in details for the five-point plan the government started in May have had tremendous difficulty getting support and/or input from opponents. Most just say 'don't believe they're independent', 'afraid for own safety', 'I have my own plan'.

Prachatai has a history of distorting the truth. No need to ask me for details, you should know.

Edited October 26, 2010 by rubl

[rubl]

Army boys are not murderers.

History proves you wrong.

Correct, history proves that generalizations have little value apart from being easy labels for people who don't want to think too much.

[chantorn]

I walked through the red shirt camp - saw the black shirt guards saw their guns - M16s and AK47s - so i personally woulD TOTALLY come down on the Governments side - i think they were EXTREMELY patient and restrained and handled the red shirt terrorism very well!!

Juthaporn youre a disillusioned clown and id like to meet you face to face - in the real world you wouldnt be an MP - just an umemployed statistic

CRES & DSI needs you as a witness. So far witnesses are far in between, because most people that saw something are dead. Please contact CRES & DSI urgently, as tour eye witness account will be most benefits to the investigation. This is if you are not lying.

Your IP address has also been logged by CRES & DSI, and they will find you if you don't find them first. They might even put you into the witness protection program to shield you from Thaksin or Red-shirt assassins.

[chantorn]

1 army personel possibly killed by friendly fire when the red shirts went on a tour near Don Meuang.

The colonel killed by a grenade attack on April 10. Civilians and coloured-shirt protesters killed and injured around Silom. 60 or so grenade attacks over the last year or 2 ... all of them attacking army or "elite" locations. But no deaths or injuries of red shirts by grenades.

xminator is suggesting that all of the army casualties were friendly fire. But if the army were not using grenades, how could it be?

You mean this:

PS Don't read the comments in youtube, please.