Thailand A 'Vibrant Democracy'

[webfact]

Thailand a 'vibrant democracy'

Differences in views part of maturing process, says foreign minister

Nirmal Ghosh

The Straits Times

Publication Date : 27-10-2010

Thailand continues to 'move towards a more participatory democracy', foreign minister Kasit Piromya said yesterday (October 26), as the country's powerful army chief issued a new warning of imminent arrests for people accused of attacking the monarchy.

In written answers to The Straits Times, Kasit said: "It is important to take a step back and look at the big picture. The diversity of views being expressed by different groups shows that Thailand is a vibrant democracy and an open society."

"Violent incidents and the use of divisive tactics to instil hatred among opposing groups' was regrettable '(but) perhaps part of the process of learning how to become a more mature democracy".

"I think the true debate about the future in Thailand is how we can move towards becoming a full-fledged democracy with a liberal, multi-party parliamentary system," he said. "The real challenge lies in how we can instil society with a deeper understanding on the ideals and key values of democracy such as the rule of law, good governance, accountability and respect for human rights."

Yesterday, some 300 supporters of the 'red shirt' movement submitted a petition to visiting United Nations Secretary-General Ban Ki Moon, urging him to intervene to secure the release of political prisoners detained under the emergency decree.

The petition challenged the 'terrorist' label given by the Thai government to militant elements among the red shirts - a loose coalition of former leftists, supporters of former premier Thaksin Shinawatra, as well as sections of the middle class and business elite aligned with the fugitive billionaire.

At a joint press conference with Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva though, Ban, who is due to attend next week's Asean summit in Ha Noi, said the political conflict was Thailand's internal affair.

"This is a Thai issue and will be resolved by Thais. The truth and reconciliation commission has started their work. We should learn from all these incidents, and I sincerely hope all these issues will be addressed in a transparent manner," he said.

He added that addressing human rights violations would "make society stronger and more participatory in approaching social and political issues".

Earlier yesterday, General Prayuth Chan-ocha, in his most explicit statement on the political situation since taking over as army chief on October 1, said: "Every time there is a gathering (of the red shirts), there are (anti-monarchy) posters and graffiti.

"Let me inform you that we now have evidence and are in the process of making arrests. Do not whine, because we have warned you many times and you are not supposed to do that."

-- ANN 2010-10-27

[givenall]

Since when anarchy equities to democracy

[hammered]

The Ban Ki Moon stuff has been a well orchestrated diplomatic coup by the government. Amsterdam and his paymaster will have to head into overdrive now in the PR game.

Be interesting to see how the Arisamon thing pans out.

[junkofdavid2]

Since when anarchy equities to democracy

Since Iraq and Afghanistan.

[SergeiY]

The Ban Ki Moon stuff has been a well orchestrated diplomatic coup by the government. Amsterdam and his paymaster will have to head into overdrive now in the PR game.

I specially like the transparency part and PR work of the army general:

"Let me inform you that we now have evidence and are in the process of making arrests. Do not whine, because we have warned you many times and you are not supposed to do that."

all clear.

[phetaroi]

Since when anarchy equities to democracy

Since Iraq and Afghanistan.

Perhaps that's the international standard the government kept referring to during the peak of the Red Shirt demonstrations.

[phiphidon]

Nirmal Ghosh

The Straits Times

Publication Date : 27-10-2010

Thailand continues to 'move towards a more participatory democracy', foreign minister Kasit Piromyasaid yesterday (October 26), as the country's powerful army chief issued a new warning of imminent arrests for people accused of attacking the monarchy.

In written answers to The Straits Times, Kasit said: "Itis important to take a step back and look at the big picture. The diversity of views being expressed by different groups shows that Thailand is a vibrant democracy and an open society."

Unless you are perceived by Gen Prayuth to be one of the bad people where you must be prosecuted, no matter what you do. Hope this definition of "bad people" is made clear.

"There are only two groups of Thai people: the good and the bad, normal people and outlaws. The bad and outlaws must be prosecuted, no matter what they do, and they can later defend themselves by legal means…".

Edited October 27, 2010 by phiphidon

[rubl]

Nirmal Ghosh

The Straits Times

Publication Date : 27-10-2010

Thailand continues to 'move towards a more participatory democracy', foreign minister Kasit Piromyasaid yesterday (October 26), as the country's powerful army chief issued a new warning of imminent arrests for people accused of attacking the monarchy.

In written answers to The Straits Times, Kasit said: "Itis important to take a step back and look at the big picture. The diversity of views being expressed by different groups shows that Thailand is a vibrant democracy and an open society."

Unless you are perceived by Gen Prayuth to be one of the bad people where you must be prosecuted, no matter what you do. Hope this definition of "bad people" is made clear.

"There are only two groups of Thai people: the good and the bad, normal people and outlaws. The bad and outlaws must be prosecuted, no matter what they do, and they can later defend themselves by legal means…".

What's your point? In most countries the bad i.e. law breakers, should be prosecuted and punished. It doesn't always happen consistently, that's the problem

[SergeiY]

Nirmal Ghosh

The Straits Times

Publication Date : 27-10-2010

Thailand continues to 'move towards a more participatory democracy', foreign minister Kasit Piromyasaid yesterday (October 26), as the country's powerful army chief issued a new warning of imminent arrests for people accused of attacking the monarchy.

In written answers to The Straits Times, Kasit said: "Itis important to take a step back and look at the big picture. The diversity of views being expressed by different groups shows that Thailand is a vibrant democracy and an open society."

Unless you are perceived by Gen Prayuth to be one of the bad people where you must be prosecuted, no matter what you do. Hope this definition of "bad people" is made clear.

"There are only two groups of Thai people: the good and the bad, normal people and outlaws. The bad and outlaws must be prosecuted, no matter what they do, and they can later defend themselves by legal means…".

What's your point? In most countries the bad i.e. law breakers, should be prosecuted and punished. It doesn't always happen consistently, that's the problem

Yes, in most countries the army chief tells the people was is appropriate and what not. Totally normal + good PR work.

[random]

"Let me inform you that we now have evidence and are in the process of making arrests. Do not whine, because we have warned you many times and you are not supposed to do that."

You are not supposed to take over the seat of government or international airports either, and remember to not whine when they eventually come to arrest you, which they will as soon as they return to power next election.

[rubl]

"Let me inform you that we now have evidence and are in the process of making arrests. Do not whine, because we have warned you many times and you are not supposed to do that."

You are not supposed to take over the seat of government or international airports either, and remember to not whine when they eventually come to arrest you, which they will as soon as they return to power next election.

It would help when you spell out who 'they' are. With the vibrant democracy we have in Thailand almost any party currently in parliament has been part of a government the last few years. This implies that any may return to power

[SergeiY]

"Let me inform you that we now have evidence and are in the process of making arrests. Do not whine, because we have warned you many times and you are not supposed to do that."

You are not supposed to take over the seat of government or international airports either, and remember to not whine when they eventually come to arrest you, which they will as soon as they return to power next election.

It would help when you spell out who 'they' are. With the vibrant democracy we have in Thailand almost any party currently in parliament has been part of a government the last few years. This implies that any may return to power

This implies that any may return to power

Are you sure? It looks more like that the army takes care of it in this 'vibrant democracy'.

Edited October 27, 2010 by SergeiY

[rubl]

"Let me inform you that we now have evidence and are in the process of making arrests. Do not whine, because we have warned you many times and you are not supposed to do that."

You are not supposed to take over the seat of government or international airports either, and remember to not whine when they eventually come to arrest you, which they will as soon as they return to power next election.

It would help when you spell out who 'they' are. With the vibrant democracy we have in Thailand almost any party currently in parliament has been part of a government the last few years. This implies that any may return to power

This implies that any may return to power

Are you sure? It looks more like that the army takes care of it in this 'vibrant democracy'.

Only fair to let you know that following the suggestion of mod's I have looked at the ignore function and put you on my list. This will be my last reply to you. Have fun

[jayjay0]

Nirmal Ghosh

The Straits Times

Publication Date : 27-10-2010

Thailand continues to 'move towards a more participatory democracy', foreign minister Kasit Piromyasaid yesterday (October 26), as the country's powerful army chief issued a new warning of imminent arrests for people accused of attacking the monarchy.

In written answers to The Straits Times, Kasit said: "Itis important to take a step back and look at the big picture. The diversity of views being expressed by different groups shows that Thailand is a vibrant democracy and an open society."

Unless you are perceived by Gen Prayuth to be one of the bad people where you must be prosecuted, no matter what you do. Hope this definition of "bad people" is made clear.

"There are only two groups of Thai people: the good and the bad, normal people and outlaws. The bad and outlaws must be prosecuted, no matter what they do, and they can later defend themselves by legal means…".

What's your point? In most countries the bad i.e. law breakers, should be prosecuted and punished. It doesn't always happen consistently, that's the problem

Yes, in most countries the army chief tells the people was is appropriate and what not. Totally normal + good PR work.

You seem to have a problem with the army chief being a good citizen and telling the people the truth.

What is it you think he should tell them.

Red Shirt lies.

Why can you red shirts not try to make Thailand a better place rather than a dictatorship under your thumb.

You people seem to have a lot of problems working with any others that do not conform exactly to your demands.

For example a election is over a year and a half away and you are offered a chance to have it in six months your answer. NO THANKS we want it now. How did that work out for you?

[SergeiY]

What's your point? In most countries the bad i.e. law breakers, should be prosecuted and punished. It doesn't always happen consistently, that's the problem

Yes, in most countries the army chief tells the people was is appropriate and what not. Totally normal + good PR work.

You seem to have a problem with the army chief being a good citizen and telling the people the truth.

What is it you think he should tell them.

Red Shirt lies.

Why can you red shirts not try to make Thailand a better place rather than a dictatorship under your thumb.

You people seem to have a lot of problems working with any others that do not conform exactly to your demands.

For example a election is over a year and a half away and you are offered a chance to have it in six months your answer. NO THANKS we want it now. How did that work out for you?

lol

Where do i say i have a problem with how the army general handles the situation. I wrote that it is like in most countries and normal.

And who is "You people" I am alone here, posting only my opinion.

[chantorn]

Vibrant democracy or Progressive democracy?

[Meridian007]

I've been trying hard to keep away from political discussions on here, but this just made me laugh:

Thailand continues to 'move towards a more participatory democracy', foreign minister Kasit Piromya said yesterday. "I think the true debate about the future in Thailand is how we can move towards becoming a full-fledged democracy with a liberal, multi-party parliamentary system," he said.

I guess Kasit has forgotten one of the main tenants of his PAD, to remove more elected positions from parliament and replace them with politically appointed ones. (see here under "Political Proposals" I know it's Wiki, but it's acknowledged party policy) Perhaps his definition of a "participatory democracy" differs from what the rest of us have learned.

This is why I despise both the red and yellow leadership, both are just groups of elites looking to plump-out their feedbags at the cost of democracy and civil rights.

[OzMick]

Vibrant democracy or Progressive democracy?

VIBRANT is from the same Latin root as vibrating; perhaps he meant it was shaky.

[apetley]

Vibrant democracy?

Surely something has been lost in translation.

A recent coup, airport occupation, occupation of Government House, political interference of the courts, anarchy on the streets of Bangkok etc etc.

Is this really what Thais believe is a vibrant democracy?

Edited October 27, 2010 by apetley

[cloudhopper]

To paraphrase Ben Franklin a vibrant democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

[stuandchris]

Vibrant Democracy? How many coups? Gov only if the army and elite agrees? Corruption rife.

I nearly fell of my chair laughing.

[craigt3365]

This implies that any may return to power

Are you sure? It looks more like that the army takes care of it in this 'vibrant democracy'.

Only fair to let you know that following the suggestion of mod's I have looked at the ignore function and put you on my list. This will be my last reply to you. Have fun

I'm seconding you on that one. It's a feature I didn't know existed...and would never have thought to use it until now. Thanks for the suggestion!

To paraphrase Ben Franklin a vibrant democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

For sure. It is a vibrant democracy! Crazy maybe, but at least this isn't Burma. The reds would all be dead by now. So it is great they get to protest and express their agenda, just wish they would avoid the violence. I did like what the army guy said here:

------------------------------------------------------------

"Violent incidents and the use of divisive tactics to instil hatred among opposing groups' was regrettable '(but) perhaps part of the process of learning how to become a more mature democracy".

"I think the true debate about the future in Thailand is how we can move towards becoming a full-fledged democracy with a liberal, multi-party parliamentary system," he said. "The real challenge lies in how we can instil society with a deeper understanding on the ideals and key values of democracy such as the rule of law, good governance, accountability and respect for human rights."

------------------------------------------------------------

I think he is right on. Pretty much every poster here is from a country who in the past has had these same kinds of protests and riots. His last sentence is great, if he can follow up on it. If achieved, Thailand will be a much better place. I'm sure we can all wish him luck with that. :jap:

[jayjay0]

What's your point? In most countries the bad i.e. law breakers, should be prosecuted and punished. It doesn't always happen consistently, that's the problem

Yes, in most countries the army chief tells the people was is appropriate and what not. Totally normal + good PR work.

You seem to have a problem with the army chief being a good citizen and telling the people the truth.

What is it you think he should tell them.

Red Shirt lies.

Why can you red shirts not try to make Thailand a better place rather than a dictatorship under your thumb.

You people seem to have a lot of problems working with any others that do not conform exactly to your demands.

For example a election is over a year and a half away and you are offered a chance to have it in six months your answer. NO THANKS we want it now. How did that work out for you?

lol

Where do i say i have a problem with how the army general handles the situation. I wrote that it is like in most countries and normal.

And who is "You people" I am alone here, posting only my opinion.

Funny it sounds more like red shirt opinions. Doubt very seriously if One could find a yellow shirt in your closet.

On second thought a pink one either.

That being said please keep up your posts they serve as proof that censorship in Thailand is not that big a deal.

Edited October 27, 2010 by jayjay0

[phiphidon]

Nirmal Ghosh

The Straits Times

Publication Date : 27-10-2010

Thailand continues to 'move towards a more participatory democracy', foreign minister Kasit Piromyasaid yesterday (October 26), as the country's powerful army chief issued a new warning of imminent arrests for people accused of attacking the monarchy.

In written answers to The Straits Times, Kasit said: "Itis important to take a step back and look at the big picture. The diversity of views being expressed by different groups shows that Thailand is a vibrant democracy and an open society."

Unless you are perceived by Gen Prayuth to be one of the bad people where you must be prosecuted, no matter what you do. Hope this definition of "bad people" is made clear.

"There are only two groups of Thai people: the good and the bad, normal people and outlaws. The bad and outlaws must be prosecuted, no matter what they do, and they can later defend themselves by legal means…".

What's your point? In most countries the bad i.e. law breakers, should be prosecuted and punished. It doesn't always happen consistently, that's the problem

My point is that his interpretation of bad people (not defined) must be prosecuted no matter what they do, and then they can defend themselves in a court of law? Last time I looked, Abhisit was Prime Minister of Thailand. Prayuth is Army Chief. He reports to the government. Do you not find it even slightly worrying that this person seems to be defining policy on the hoof. Even more worrying, not a word from Abhisit. But perhaps you're right he seems a reasonable man by his pronouncements so far...................

[phiphidon]

This implies that any may return to power

Are you sure? It looks more like that the army takes care of it in this 'vibrant democracy'.

Only fair to let you know that following the suggestion of mod's I have looked at the ignore function and put you on my list. This will be my last reply to you. Have fun

I'm seconding you on that one. It's a feature I didn't know existed...and would never have thought to use it until now. Thanks for the suggestion!

To paraphrase Ben Franklin a vibrant democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what's for dinner.

For sure. It is a vibrant democracy! Crazy maybe, but at least this isn't Burma. The reds would all be dead by now. So it is great they get to protest and express their agenda, just wish they would avoid the violence. I did like what the army guy said here:

------------------------------------------------------------

"Violent incidents and the use of divisive tactics to instil hatred among opposing groups' was regrettable '(but) perhaps part of the process of learning how to become a more mature democracy".

"I think the true debate about the future in Thailand is how we can move towards becoming a full-fledged democracy with a liberal, multi-party parliamentary system," he said. "The real challenge lies in how we can instil society with a deeper understanding on the ideals and key values of democracy such as the rule of law, good governance, accountability and respect for human rights."

------------------------------------------------------------

I think he is right on. Pretty much every poster here is from a country who in the past has had these same kinds of protests and riots. His last sentence is great, if he can follow up on it. If achieved, Thailand will be a much better place. I'm sure we can all wish him luck with that. :jap:

Unfortunately, the person who said that was not the "army guy" aka Gen.Prayuth, Army Chief, He's a lot more hard core. It was the Thai Foreign Minister, Kasit Piromya. He's had a few words to say on democracy before, after the PAD occupation of the airport (which he declared was a lot of fun) he stated "Look at it [the PAD protests] as pushing the process of democratisation forward." When asked about what role the Army played in bringing his party to power he replied," I don't know ". And there's plenty more where that came from.

[Roadman]

Nirmal Ghosh

The Straits Times

Publication Date : 27-10-2010

Thailand continues to 'move towards a more participatory democracy', foreign minister Kasit Piromyasaid yesterday (October 26), as the country's powerful army chief issued a new warning of imminent arrests for people accused of attacking the monarchy.

In written answers to The Straits Times, Kasit said: "Itis important to take a step back and look at the big picture. The diversity of views being expressed by different groups shows that Thailand is a vibrant democracy and an open society."

Unless you are perceived by Gen Prayuth to be one of the bad people where you must be prosecuted, no matter what you do. Hope this definition of "bad people" is made clear.

"There are only two groups of Thai people: the good and the bad, normal people and outlaws. The bad and outlaws must be prosecuted, no matter what they do, and they can later defend themselves by legal means…".

What's your point? In most countries the bad i.e. law breakers, should be prosecuted and punished. It doesn't always happen consistently, that's the problem

My point is that his interpretation of bad people (not defined) must be prosecuted no matter what they do, and then they can defend themselves in a court of law? Last time I looked, Abhisit was Prime Minister of Thailand. Prayuth is Army Chief. He reports to the government. Do you not find it even slightly worrying that this person seems to be defining policy on the hoof. Even more worrying, not a word from Abhisit. But perhaps you're right he seems a reasonable man by his pronouncements so far...................

Is he defining policy on the hoof? Or just stating agreed government / Army policy with the Army given the role of dealing with the terrorism related affairs - same as the minister for tourism makes staements on tourism matters. The relationship between the two at this stage is very different compared to any established western governance, but given the existing state of affairs in Thailand with the recent violence and lack of police support it is understandable. Worrying? What would be worrying is if the Army was not there right now or its leadership was in very different hands - ie with Baht brought loyalty.

The situation is not ideal but when Prayuth shows genuine love for his Monarchy and country with the continued statements he has made from the day of his appointment to recently as above in Craig3365 post (excellent post) then I am more relieved for Thailand right now than worried. And more so knowing that regardless of the outcome of the elections next year there is an Army leadership who will act for the correct reasons if Thaksinism or other garbage again occurs.

[rubl]

Dear phiphidon,

since I'm getting tired of your seemingly neutral, reasonable remarks which somehow only seem to serve to either discredit the current government or to diminish the less savory aspects of UDD, I have decided to put you on my private ignore list as well. Better for my peace of mind, shouldn't bother you anyhow. You don't seem interested in listening, reading any you don't like, so go ahead, play with yourself rather than others. Bye.

[SergeiY]

Dear phiphidon,

since I'm getting tired of your seemingly neutral, reasonable remarks which somehow only seem to serve to either discredit the current government or to diminish the less savory aspects of UDD, I have decided to put you on my private ignore list as well. Better for my peace of mind, shouldn't bother you anyhow. You don't seem interested in listening, reading any you don't like, so go ahead, play with yourself rather than others. Bye.

Yawn.

Your 'goodbye' will really really really hurt him. Not.

Time to learn that other have different opinions.

[jaideeguy]

55555555555555555555555555555

they got it half right

[jackr]

What they should be saying is Thailand 'could be' a 'Vibrant Democracy'. As it stands, it is far from it. Think widespread corruption and the all-important face and value of perceived hierarchy (an Asia-wide trait). Unless they get over this, grow up, and look at the next man as being equal, it'll never achieve that moniker.