Thai Couple Sentenced To 1,562 Years In Prison

[webfact]

Couple gets maximum term over cash fraud

BANGKOK: -- The Ratchadapisek Criminal Court yesterday sentenced a couple to 1,562 years in prison for embezzling Bt2.1 million through the use of electronic cash cards issued to Retailink (Thailand) employees to pay for petrol.

However, Retailink employee Sudawadi Rodmanee and her boyfriend, Shell petrol station employee Pathorn Chingduang, ended up getting just 20 years in jail because that is the maximum allowed by Thai law. The two, both 29, were also ordered to repay the firm Bt2.1 million at an annual interest rate of 7.5 per cent.

From May 31, 2006 to December 17, 2007, the couple reportedly used cash cards issued to 29 employees 1,533 times to pocket a total of Bt2.1 million - an action denied by both defendants, the lawsuit said. The court ruled that the couple was guilty on grounds that the plaintiff had convincing testimonies from damaged persons while the defendants' argument wasn't convincing.

-- The Nation 2010-10-28

[geriatrickid]

The 7.5% interest rate jumped out at me, considering the current rate of interest in Thailand. Then I found this;

In case of a loan of money, the Thai Civil and Commercial Code, Section 654, provides that “interest shall not exceed 15% per year. When a higher rate of interest is fixed by the contract, it shall be reduced to 15% per year.” Ok, so the judge was less harsh than was allowed. Unfortunately, these people will be unable to pay off the debt at an interest rate of 7.5% What’s the point? Yes it’s good that slimey fraudsters are punished, but if the goal is also restitution, then the judgement won't accomplish that. I agree with harsh penalties and all that, but I still find it odd that property crimes seem to be treated much harsher than crimes of violence and human exploitation.

[rkidlad]

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

[Moebius87]

Talk about grassroots change... making an example from the ground up?

[RedNIvar]

Is this how they came up with 1562 years. 1 year jail term for every time they used the card and 1 year for each person they cheated. That is 1533 + 29 = 1562.

They should have all sentences run concurrently, and be out in a year. This is utter and complete BS.

I've seen hard core criminals get off with a couple of years prison sentence for heinous crimes, and these two are made an example off. TIT.

Lesson of the day: If you want to cheat in Thailand, cheat big, real big (in the hundred of millions or billions), because if you get caught you can bribe your way out. If you cheat small (a couple of million), you will have to be cryogenicaly frozen to ensure you do your time.

[uncletom]

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

That is about the size of it, except the rich and influencial as well..... Never fair for the commoners.

Remember Chalerm's kid who was a police officer who shot and kiled another and then went on the lamb, only to come back and basically have his hand slapped with a short, short sentence...

Thaskin got how many years? and his Human rights issues for supposedly ordering the murders of the drug people never went any further than just talk either.

But then again, Thaskin is like Robin Hood in the middle and poor peoples eyes.

But back onto topic. The article reads that it was not 100% proven, but from, QUOTE:The court ruled that the couple was guilty on grounds that the plaintiff had convincing testimonies from damaged persons while the defendants' argument wasn't convincing.

Who is really the plaintiff? Is it Retaillink or the prosecutor who filed the charges?

Fair trial or not?

uncletom

[phosphorescent]

Seems a bit harsh for stealing 44 thousand pounds. It doesn't sound like a well thought out crime by master criminals. More like a crime of opportunity by a couple of poor petrol pump attendants with bad managers. They should be punished but the punishment should fit the crime.

[cmsally]

A look at their website, and it would seem to be part of the CP Group.

Retail LInk

[chantorn]

Bad people like Thaksin should never leave jail.

[uncletom]

A look at their website, and it would seem to be part of the CP Group.

Retail LInk

So this understandably could be the reason behind why the hammer may have came down so hard. Perhaps they are being made examples of, and perhaps it will spread to include both their family's and relatives as well when they can't pay the fines.

Could this possibly be just another strong influence that has to be favored, listened, and followed to the tee by the prosecutors and judges alike? Or just a true appropriate imposed sentence and fine that is well deserved and matches everyone elses sentences and fines bei9ng fair across the board?

Scary.

uncletom

[TAWP]

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

The courts are not the government...

[bluesofa]

The 7.5% interest rate jumped out at me, considering the current rate of interest in Thailand. Then I found this;

In case of a loan of money, the Thai Civil and Commercial Code, Section 654, provides that “interest shall not exceed 15% per year. When a higher rate of interest is fixed by the contract, it shall be reduced to 15% per year.” Ok, so the judge was less harsh than was allowed. Unfortunately, these people will be unable to pay off the debt at an interest rate of 7.5% What’s the point? Yes it’s good that slimey fraudsters are punished, but if the goal is also restitution, then the judgement won't accomplish that. I agree with harsh penalties and all that, but I still find it odd that property crimes seem to be treated much harsher than crimes of violence and human exploitation.

Is this refering to commercial agreements for borrowing money?

My G/F has just applied for an Aeon credit card. If I remember correctly, the terms on that states an interest rate of 20% per annum. This is using it to purchase goods and for cash advances alike.

[EarthAlien]

Is this how they came up with 1562 years. 1 year jail term for every time they used the card and 1 year for each person they cheated. That is 1533 + 29 = 1562.

They should have all sentences run concurrently, and be out in a year. This is utter and complete BS.

I've seen hard core criminals get off with a couple of years prison sentence for heinous crimes, and these two are made an example off. TIT.

Lesson of the day: If you want to cheat in Thailand, cheat big, real big (in the hundred of millions or billions), because if you get caught you can bribe your way out. If you cheat small (a couple of million), you will have to be cryogenicaly frozen to ensure you do your time.

Sir,... your synopsis of this story is right on the money! I couldn't have said it any better.

Only one thought I would add would be the grounds upon which they were found to be guilty and subsequently sentenced: QUOTE:The court ruled that the couple was guilty on grounds that the plaintiff had convincing testimonies from damaged persons while the defendants' argument wasn't convincing.

In a "real" western court under a fair trial in which the defendants had decent attorneys then such a legal conclusion and conviction could never have been made. They may as well have just said something like "yeah,... well they sound and look guilty and we need to make a conviction so we'll just accept the witnesses testimony as being good enough!"

Comforting to see that they were "only given 20 year sentences" for stealing $65,000. (a self confession & full conviction in the west would see about 2 to 3 years MAX for this!!!

Thailand,- land of superficiality and BS!

[Jirapa]

The 7.5% interest rate jumped out at me, considering the current rate of interest in Thailand. Then I found this;

In case of a loan of money, the Thai Civil and Commercial Code, Section 654, provides that "interest shall not exceed 15% per year. When a higher rate of interest is fixed by the contract, it shall be reduced to 15% per year." Ok, so the judge was less harsh than was allowed. Unfortunately, these people will be unable to pay off the debt at an interest rate of 7.5% What's the point? Yes it's good that slimey fraudsters are punished, but if the goal is also restitution, then the judgement won't accomplish that. I agree with harsh penalties and all that, but I still find it odd that property crimes seem to be treated much harsher than crimes of violence and human exploitation.

No one deserves 20 years for stealing the equivalent of about 40000 GBP. The sentence is more criminal than the crime and I for one pity them. It's not like they were going to ATMs with knives and guns and mugging individuals as that would merit 20 years. I take it that if you were to steal a Mercedes Benz off the streets valued at 40000+ quid you'd also get 20 years?

[Jirapa]

Bad people like Thaksin should never leave jail.

What's Taksin have to do with a young man serving 20 years for stealing 2.1M Baht? Couple of months for irrelevant comments wouldn't be a bad idea!

[maswov]

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

The courts are not the government...

Apparently you never heard of the judicial branch...

[hansnl]

The 7.5% interest rate jumped out at me, considering the current rate of interest in Thailand. Then I found this;

In case of a loan of money, the Thai Civil and Commercial Code, Section 654, provides that “interest shall not exceed 15% per year. When a higher rate of interest is fixed by the contract, it shall be reduced to 15% per year.” Ok, so the judge was less harsh than was allowed. Unfortunately, these people will be unable to pay off the debt at an interest rate of 7.5% What’s the point? Yes it’s good that slimey fraudsters are punished, but if the goal is also restitution, then the judgement won't accomplish that. I agree with harsh penalties and all that, but I still find it odd that property crimes seem to be treated much harsher than crimes of violence and human exploitation.

Which might draw someone to the conclusion that money is more important as a life?

[TAWP]

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

The courts are not the government...

Apparently you never heard of the judicial branch...

Apparently you have not? The judges are not fired and re-appointed whenever a government is elected. They are hired as any other civil servant employee.

[uncletom]

Again, it is not the level of the crime, it was who the crime was inadvertently perpetrated against. The defendants’( Gas Station Employees) are hardly Einstein’s, probably saw it merely as scooping some money where no one would ever notice but not ever thinking about who the major players behind the scene were.

Now the major players are some of the heaviest and most powerful people there are in Thailand, let alone in the world, so they decided to do the defendants just like the same they do to the chickens at a certain company’s chicken processing plant, well just as cruel in a sense.

The entire system is corrupt at best, nothing more, nothing less. So powerful Thai people just have to say, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS, sick em fido, and it is carried out. Nothing more, nothing less again.

Article Quote: From May 31, 2006 to December 17, 2007, the couple reportedly used cash cards issued to 29 employees 1,533 times to pocket a total of Bt2.1 million - an action denied by both defendants, the lawsuit said.

There seems to be No true proof or true evidence pinning them to the crime, if there was, it would have been mentioned like: CAUGHT RED HANDED with________________________, but there was none mentioned, so therefore there was none.

Travesty and my condolences to the two Thai people. They didn’t kill anyone, and in my eyes, it is still not proven by satisfactory means, no confession, no evidence, so they are not guilty and shouldn't have been incarcerated unless there was more of something concrete.

I am privy to have knowledge of a Huge matter of a different Thai color that will be coming out next year, can’t speak about it/wouldn’t dare, but low and behold it exactly resembles the same tier structured system of Thailand

heavy weight corporate – government- judicial corruption.

uncletom

[maswov]

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

The courts are not the government...

Apparently you never heard of the judicial branch...

Apparently you have not? The judges are not fired and re-appointed whenever a government is elected. They are hired as any other civil servant employee.

Being "fired" and reappointed or not has nothing to do with the election of government the courts are the judicial branch of the government. Read the link and become informed http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/briggsgov.html

And to make it easier i cut the section:

The Judicial Branch of the Government: The Courts The judicial branch of the government consists of all the courts of Thailand. The courts are independent bodies, intended to serve as a "check and balance" on both the Executive and Legislative branches of government. The judiciary hears cases involving actual conflicts between individuals, between individuals and businesses, or between individuals or businesses and the government, and decides each case on its own merits. When a law applies to a case being considered, the court will apply the terms of the law, but if it feels the law may be contrary to the Constitution, it has the duty to refer the case to the Constitutional Court for a determination of whether there is such a conflict. Other than in cases of conflict with the Constitution, the courts apply the laws as enacted, and determine how the facts they find in hearing the evidence are affected by the laws. The courts also review executive actions of the government, how the executive branch carries out its functions, and can render judgments against the governmental bodies in appropriate cases.

[mrdjt]

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

RKIDLAD That is an utter gem.

However it's not only Thailand. I remember being shocked that the great train robbers in UK ( ok I'm OLD)

got longer sentences than murderers.

[pacovl46]

they do that to set an example for future criminals to scare them off. if it works is a different story.

The 7.5% interest rate jumped out at me, considering the current rate of interest in Thailand. Then I found this;

In case of a loan of money, the Thai Civil and Commercial Code, Section 654, provides that "interest shall not exceed 15% per year. When a higher rate of interest is fixed by the contract, it shall be reduced to 15% per year." Ok, so the judge was less harsh than was allowed. Unfortunately, these people will be unable to pay off the debt at an interest rate of 7.5% What's the point? Yes it's good that slimey fraudsters are punished, but if the goal is also restitution, then the judgement won't accomplish that. I agree with harsh penalties and all that, but I still find it odd that property crimes seem to be treated much harsher than crimes of violence and human exploitation.

[Artabus]

Surely the courts would have used cctv footage for the time and place of all those crimes, or the police would have traced the defendents' whereabouts, so there can be no doubt that they are guilty; just the newspaper not reporting things accurately

Moving swiftly onwards, can someone tell me how the Bt2.1 million and 7.5% interest bit works?

Say they have all the money under their mattresses still, so they pay all the money back immediately - no interest payments right? Problem solved.

If, on the other hand they didn't steal the money in the first place, or they did steal it but have used it to supplement their (how much? Bt10,000?) monthly salary, and it is all gone... They will be in prison for twenty years, at which stage the interest (being compound?) will amount to some sum of money it's beyond my maths to calculate. So does that mean that at that stage they will be put back inside for non-payment of the fine? Could effectively be a life sentence... Or is that a civil offence, so they'll just get another fine..?

[TAWP]

Being "fired" and reappointed or not has nothing to do with the election of government the courts are the judicial branch of the government. Read the link and become informed http://www.thailawforum.com/articles/briggsgov.html

And to make it easier i cut the section:

The Judicial Branch of the Government: The Courts The judicial branch of the government consists of all the courts of Thailand. The courts are independent bodies, intended to serve as a "check and balance" on both the Executive and Legislative branches of government. The judiciary hears cases involving actual conflicts between individuals, between individuals and businesses, or between individuals or businesses and the government, and decides each case on its own merits. When a law applies to a case being considered, the court will apply the terms of the law, but if it feels the law may be contrary to the Constitution, it has the duty to refer the case to the Constitutional Court for a determination of whether there is such a conflict. Other than in cases of conflict with the Constitution, the courts apply the laws as enacted, and determine how the facts they find in hearing the evidence are affected by the laws. The courts also review executive actions of the government, how the executive branch carries out its functions, and can render judgments against the governmental bodies in appropriate cases.

You are deliberately being obtrusive so you can say 'government' bears the blaim instead of 'courts'?

You are quoting the segmentation of the government, the machine of the state, not that the 'government' as in 'the political party in charge' is to blame.

Maybe it is a language thing?

[anterian]

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

RKIDLAD That is an utter gem.

However it's not only Thailand. I remember being shocked that the great train robbers in UK ( ok I'm OLD)

got longer sentences than murderers.

Damage or theft of property has always been seen in a more severe light than to life and limb. Even in England this is the case and has been since the Middle Ages, although the balance is shifting. As an example a driver does not have to give way to a police car or ambulance, although in the first case he may do so out of common sense and in the second case out of curtesy, however he does have to give way to a fire engine.

[maswov]

You are deliberately being obtrusive so you can say 'government' bears the blaim instead of 'courts'?

You are quoting the segmentation of the government, the machine of the state, not that the 'government' as in 'the political party in charge' is to blame.

Maybe it is a language thing?

That is not being obtrusive, I am supporting my argument with facts. The courts are part of the government that is a fact.

I am not trying to blame anyone, it is a decision that was made by the courts. My personal view on whether is was a sound decision or not was never stated. If the decision requires review that would fall to the court of appeals which is still part of the government. Then the supreme court can review the finding from the court of appeals. It is a government body performing a government function, whichever political party is in majority has no bearing on this.

[Jirapa]

It's good to see the government making an example of poor people who steal. It won't be tolerated.

The sooner people realise that only politicians and police are allowed to steal the better.

RKIDLAD That is an utter gem.

However it's not only Thailand. I remember being shocked that the great train robbers in UK ( ok I'm OLD)

got longer sentences than murderers.

That's because it was armed robbery which can't be tolerated in any society! They're not walking into banks, trains, stations or warehouses with feather dusters they have shot guns, beat people down who don't comply instantly, make death threats and crap the life out of people and yes they often kill people when the shit hits the fan. This couple was armed with plastic cards and tapping digits into ATM machines, hardly comparable!

[TAWP]

You are deliberately being obtrusive so you can say 'government' bears the blaim instead of 'courts'?

You are quoting the segmentation of the government, the machine of the state, not that the 'government' as in 'the political party in charge' is to blame.

Maybe it is a language thing?

That is not being obtrusive, I am supporting my argument with facts. The courts are part of the government that is a fact.

I am not trying to blame anyone, it is a decision that was made by the courts. My personal view on whether is was a sound decision or not was never stated. If the decision requires review that would fall to the court of appeals which is still part of the government. Then the supreme court can review the finding from the court of appeals. It is a government body performing a government function, whichever political party is in majority has no bearing on this.

However, the poster blaming the 'government' earlier sounded much like other posters blaming the government (aka Abhisit) for any/many wrong-doings of other government agencies that the ministers have no rule over (or, shouldn't have direct rule over - separation of power).

Hence the objection.

[witsawakorn]

Again, it is not the level of the crime, it was who the crime was inadvertently perpetrated against. The defendants'( Gas Station Employees) are hardly Einstein's, probably saw it merely as scooping some money where no one would ever notice but not ever thinking about who the major players behind the scene were.

Now the major players are some of the heaviest and most powerful people there are in Thailand, let alone in the world, so they decided to do the defendants just like the same they do to the chickens at a certain company's chicken processing plant, well just as cruel in a sense.

The entire system is corrupt at best, nothing more, nothing less. So powerful Thai people just have to say, OFF WITH THEIR HEADS, sick em fido, and it is carried out. Nothing more, nothing less again.

Article Quote: From May 31, 2006 to December 17, 2007, the couple reportedly used cash cards issued to 29 employees 1,533 times to pocket a total of Bt2.1 million - an action denied by both defendants, the lawsuit said.

There seems to be No true proof or true evidence pinning them to the crime, if there was, it would have been mentioned like: CAUGHT RED HANDED with________________________, but there was none mentioned, so therefore there was none.

Travesty and my condolences to the two Thai people. They didn't kill anyone, and in my eyes, it is still not proven by satisfactory means, no confession, no evidence, so they are not guilty and shouldn't have been incarcerated unless there was more of something concrete.

I am privy to have knowledge of a Huge matter of a different Thai color that will be coming out next year, can't speak about it/wouldn't dare, but low and behold it exactly resembles the same tier structured system of Thailand

heavy weight corporate – government- judicial corruption.

uncletom

It may be "heavy weight corporate – government- judicial corruption" but that isn't unique to Thailand. Look into the penalties applied in the Union Carbide Bhopal and Exxon Valdez incidents to see the masters at work.

[reggaebkk]

If they apply the law equally for every Thai citizen I guess Thaksin will get a jail term that runs until the next Big Bang...