Money/stockmarket For Dummies

[h90]

I have a 20-30 K US$ which I can invest long term. Actually I don't want to trade every day and I don't want much of a risk and I have no idea about such things.

I think of let the money stay 5 or 10 years and than happily finding out that it is more than before.....

I read about bonds, if I can wait and they have a nice rating than there shouldn't be much of a risk, or?

I read that there are also funds (is that right in english?) which contain a basket of stocks and some even guarantee that you get 100 % or 80 % of your money back. But there is a hugh amount of offers, I guess I need to read 30 years and still don't know anything about it.

Has anyone a clue on how to start that?

h90

[simcity]

H90

Regarding the 100% guaranty, the company who take your money will place 75 % ( approx ) to a government bond at said 4 % and the last 25 % on the stock or elsewhere ( 5 year plan ) .

If everything turn ok, a little profit will show if not you will get back your investment!

You perhaps can split your sum between a good fund and some gold ?

If you have a mortgage better to top it up .

For the fund, look at what they charge! I like the one who charge max 5 % at the start, I do not like the one who charge at trading.

some funds are direct to properies / commodities , see the one you like !

[h90]

Simcity: I guess you expect that I know more than I really do......

My main problem is where to start looking arround for which solutions?

How do I find good fund?

how do I start?

properties is not really an option for me (beside that I guess for 20.000 I can only buy a toilette somewhere).....

I need more tips for real idiots on that field, I really miss the point in all that things.

H90

Regarding the 100% guaranty, the company who take your money will place 75 % ( approx ) to a government bond at said 4 % and the last 25 % on the stock or elsewhere ( 5 year plan ) .

If everything turn ok, a little profit will show if not you will get back your investment!

You perhaps can split your sum between a good fund and some gold ?

If you have a mortgage better to top it up .

For the fund, look at what they charge! I like the one who charge max 5 % at the start, I do not like the one who charge at trading.

some funds are direct to properies / commodities , see the one you like !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Harmonica]

I have a 20-30 K US$ which I can invest long term. Actually I don't want to trade every day and I don't want much of a risk and I have no idea about such things.

I think of let the money stay 5 or 10 years and than happily finding out that it is more than before.....

I read about bonds, if I can wait and they have a nice rating than there shouldn't be much of a risk, or?

I read that there are also funds (is that right in english?) which contain a basket of stocks and some even guarantee that you get 100 % or 80 % of your money back. But there is a hugh amount of offers, I guess I need to read 30 years and still don't know anything about it.

Has anyone a clue on how to start that?

h90

Why not just put it in a bank?

You said you don't know anything about investing -- so, why not get a book and start learning?

Coincidentally there is a book called, "Investing for Dummies" -- got good reviews a year ago. I recommended this very same book to a german fellow, but he said he would not buy it -- because he was not a dummy.

[simcity]

H90 i do not know what country you calling from ..

i am sure you can do a search on ' funds ' and somewhere you will be able to see how they rates, by category , total return , growth and the diversities of them ..

Take a fund who has been around for 10 years to have a good idea ! give them a ring !

if you are in Australia, I could help you further ! I got my fund directly from my bank ! for the last 7 years they have been around 15 of 165 .

Barclays has fund everywhere , your bank must have some !

Some funds are more into commercial / property / mining / oversea etcetera , if you still lost ask your accountant , ask him more details !

Financial advisers are sometime not of the best choice! Often they have commission from the fund they suggest , it is good to know exactly what you want before going to see them .

Perhaps if you said where you from someone else will have better ideas !

http://www.morningstar.com/Cover/Funds.html?pgid=hetabfunds

just saw this link , not sure how good it is !

Edited August 6, 2005 by simcity

[h90]

Harmonica: lol, yes I have my money at the bank, lol, but the interest rate on the normal bank account is between 0 and nothing.... So considering inflation I loose money every day. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll try to get hold of this book, thanks a lot ("Investing for Dummies" sounds like the wrote the book for me )

simcity: Well I am from Austria, my money is in Germany and in Hongkong and Bangkok (but I am afraid of holding Thai baht, maybe it drops) and a bit in Austria. I stay in Bangkok. As on one of my last visits in my Bangkok bank in SamutPrakarn, they did not know that a money transfer to other countries is possible, I will not ask them on how to invest my money (even the pretty lady there would have a good idea, I am sure).

The idea to look at funds which exist since 10 years and look at the past: so simple this idea is, I did not had it myself, I own you a beer for it......

Will check the webpage and now I have a beginning, a point to start at!

Thanks for the help!

[Firefan]

I like the advise from Harmonica. No need to rush any investment decisions. Put them in the bank, read a book or 2 (Investing for Dummies and Mutual Funds for Dummies are 2 great beginner books as mentioned) and then make your decisions later.

I have a list (somewhere on this PC...) with some more beginner books so if you are interested in learning more just send me a PM.

Cheers!

[fxm88]

I have a 20-30 K US$ which I can invest long term. Actually I don't want to trade every day and I don't want much of a risk and I have no idea about such things.

I think of let the money stay 5 or 10 years and than happily finding out that it is more than before.....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

One word: Plastics!

But seriously, no risk == no return.

If you could manage to wait 15 or 20 years (to weather any market downturns) I would recommend you put it all in an stock index fund, most easily purchased as Exchange Traded Funds which trade like stocks e.g. SPY (S&P 500) or QQQQ (NASDAQ 100, previously QQQ).

If you've really only got 5 years then I'd go 100% bonds (not -- repeat not -- bond-funds) or CDs.

[Harmonica]

Harmonica: lol, yes I have my money at the bank, lol, but the interest rate on the normal bank account is between 0 and nothing.... So considering inflation I loose money every day. Thanks for the recommendation, I'll try to get hold of this book, thanks a lot ("Investing for Dummies" sounds like the wrote the book for me    )

simcity: Well I am from Austria, my money is in Germany and in Hongkong and Bangkok (but I am afraid of holding Thai baht, maybe it drops) and a bit in Austria. I stay in Bangkok. As on one of my last visits in my Bangkok bank in SamutPrakarn, they did not know that a money transfer to other countries is possible, I will not ask them on how to invest my money (even the pretty lady there would have a good idea, I am sure).

The idea to look at funds which exist since 10 years and look at the past: so simple this idea is, I did not had it myself, I own you a beer for it......

Will check the webpage and now I have a beginning, a point to start at!

Thanks for the help!

h90,

It is far better to earn zip in Interest from the bank than to lose large portions of your capital thru' misplaced investments & mistiming.

HOLD CASH in the bank via CDs, moneymarket accounts etc. Do not jump into anything. Interest rates are going up worldwide so that is already working in your favor.

There are too many sharks around who will be more than happy to separate you from your USD 30K -- some on this board might already be planning to accost you on highway. Ignore all PMs to your box!

While you're reading that book I mentioned, don't forget to take off the "&lt;deleted&gt; me" sign from your forehead.

Do NOT relinquish them Dollars to any thai bank unless it is to open a USD foreign currency account @ Siam commercial Bank. Pull out Thai Baht only a little at a time.

[Firefan]

Again; good advise (albeit not very diplomatic ) from Harmonica. Other poster also had a good point about index funds/exchange traded funds being the best/cheapest vehicles, but first things first. Learn, and don't rush. Cheers!

[raro]

PM me for my a/c number...

[thaistick]

Get foreign currency CDs with the highest interest rates like New Zealand dollars.Everbank pays 5.46% on their 6 month NZD CD and let it compound and roll over until another safe country with higher interest rates comes along.The Max Yield strategy is to once a year simply move your money into the safe country paying the highest rates of interest. One year later you change to the new high-yielding safe country.You make money through interest and through currency appreciation as money flows to where it's treated best thus getting double-digit returns annually.I have $40,000 in an Everbank NZD 6 month CD as well as $50,000 in Singapore dollars in their deposit account and they are both FDIC insured.

[Eric Davis]

Start a Visa Run service to cambodia.

[fxm88]

...let it compound and roll over until another safe country with higher interest rates comes along...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What is your definition of a "safe" country? If it were truly "safe" then it would have a very low real interest rate (i.e. nominal interest rate - rate of inflation). As New Zealand currently has very mild inflation how can one explain their high interest rates? Perhaps it is riskier than you think.

[Harmonica]

...let it compound and roll over until another safe country with higher interest rates comes along...

What is your definition of a "safe" country? If it were truly "safe" then it would have a very low real interest rate (i.e. nominal interest rate - rate of inflation). As New Zealand currently has very mild inflation how can one explain their high interest rates? Perhaps it is riskier than you think.

Hehehehe, easy to explain -- NZ dollar is taking a beating vs Aussie $. Banks have caught on to this new trend & know that it is here to stay. They've got to offer high rates otherwise NZers will ship their loot to their neighbors, or God forbid, to Thailand.

[malcolminthemiddle]

I have a 20-30 K US$ which I can invest long term. Actually I don't want to trade every day and I don't want much of a risk and I have no idea about such things.

I think of let the money stay 5 or 10 years and than happily finding out that it is more than before.....

I read about bonds, if I can wait and they have a nice rating than there shouldn't be much of a risk, or?

I read that there are also funds (is that right in english?) which contain a basket of stocks and some even guarantee that you get 100 % or 80 % of your money back. But there is a hugh amount of offers, I guess I need to read 30 years and still don't know anything about it.

Has anyone a clue on how to start that?

h90

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How about a tax efficient International Pension Plan designed for the expat with one of the top boys, term can be anything 5 - 30 years. Put the money in as a Lump Sum or regular payments (can be monthly, quarterly, yearly), top up whenever you have some spare cash. Choose a managed strategy, they have multiple strategies depending on length of term ie the longer the term, the higher the risk. At the end of the term many options including rolling the plan over. Don't expect enormous returns but will provide a nice windfall supplement sometime in the future.

PM me if you would like a contact number.

Edited August 6, 2005 by malcolminthemiddle

[simcity]

I will not touch the NZ dollars now, it as done very very well , i think it is on a shaky ground now !

h90 gold is going up slowly , and the picture of china yuan is not clear !

i believe the bank of china got the first authorization to sell gold , and I will hate ( well love ) to see billion doing the queue to buy some !

I am into it with shares / bar / certificate.

But I am not sure how you will store it if you live in Thailand or travel so much!

I do not know the USA market , I am French but all my holding are in Australia !

[PCA]

h90,

if your timeframe is medium to long term I can recommend

www.quadrigafund.com

Regards

[thaistick]

I will not touch the NZ dollars now, it as done very very well , i think it is on a shaky ground now !

h90 gold is going up slowly , and the picture of china yuan is not clear !

i believe the bank of china got the first authorization to sell gold , and I will hate ( well love ) to see billion doing the queue to buy some !

I am into it with shares / bar / certificate.

But I am not sure how you will store it if you live in Thailand or travel so much!

I do not know the USA market , I am French but all my holding are in Australia !

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Chinese government now allows its citizens to buy gold privately and its the European central banks that have been foolishingly selling theirs.

August and September are the months before the holiday buying season that gold traditionally starts going up,but with the dollar going back down and America's debt and economic bubbles,gold will more than go up in seasonal fashion.Throw in a billion and a half Chinese and a billion gold-loving Indians buying gold and the hardbitten goldbugs will finally get their due.

Perth Mint certificates in gold and especially silver are easy to buy and sell.Silver will go up further percentage-wise.

[h90]

thaistick: stupid question: what are CDs? (maybe lack of english on my side).

Else that sounds interesting, as well the bond thing.

Harmonica: things are not as bad as you think, I only got PM with tipps for books :-)

And don't worry I don't belive anyone who wants my money easily as my grandmother wants said to one "very smart" investment advisor: "If you know how to make money so easily on the stockmarket, why do you still need to work for this bank?"

I'll follow your recommendation, I take my time, not trust someone and thats maybe not yet mentioned, I'll not invest everything in one style of investment, I'll do different things to reduce the money!

Thanks to all for your ideas!

Get foreign currency CDs with the highest interest rates like New Zealand dollars.Everbank pays 5.46% on their 6 month NZD CD and let it compound and roll over until another safe country with higher interest rates comes along.The Max Yield strategy is to once a year simply move your money into the safe country paying the highest rates of interest. One year later you change to the new high-yielding safe country.You make money through interest and through currency appreciation as money flows to where it's treated best thus getting double-digit returns annually.I have $40,000 in an Everbank NZD 6 month CD as well as $50,000 in Singapore dollars in their deposit account and they are both FDIC insured.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[malcolminthemiddle]

h90,

if your timeframe is medium to long term I can recommend

www.quadrigafund.com

Regards

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Harmonica,

Would appreciate your expert opinion of www.quadrigafund.com

[Firefan]

Malcolm; there are a lot of funds there - which one of them would you like comments on? First note; they charge 4.5% just to get into the funds - not a good start... Cheers!

[Taggart]

>>>Actually I don't want to trade every day<<<

You wouldn't have to.

>>>I think of let the money stay 5 or 10 years and than happily finding out that it is more than before.....<<<

5 or 10 years is not long term. Try a lifetime of investing. Anything other than that should be kept in a high interest account for emergencies.

>>>I read about bonds, if I can wait and they have a nice rating than there shouldn't be much of a risk, or?<<<

Bonds are not used to make you rich. They are used in a diversified portfolio to lower your risk. The lowest risk bonds are short term governments from developed countries and have one to five year terms. Along with the lower risks you also normally get lower yields.

>>>I guess I need to read 30 years and still don't know anything about it.<<<

You'll still have plenty of time to do the things "you" want to do, but you will have to keep up with any product changes or improvements, and new ideas.

>>>Has anyone a clue on how to start that?<<<

As always you start at the beginning. Educate yourself. Nobody will look after "your" money better than yourself. Diversify among various asset classes and one of the most important criteria is to keep your investment costs low.

>>>How do I find good fund?<<<

You can't. Even the people considered professionals can't. They can always find what was good for the past ten or twenty years, but these same so called "good" funds may have a poor track record for the next ten or twenty years. Over the long term more than two thirds of active funds can't even beat a passive index.

>>>I only got PM with tipps for books :-)<<<

You can get good advice on the internet for free, if you know where to look.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Malcolm; there are a lot of funds there - which one of them would you like comments on? First note; they charge 4.5% just to get into the funds - not a good start... Cheers!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi Firefan,

I was thinking of a general overview not specific funds. You have already started.

1. Management Charge - 4.5% not good.

2. Selection of funds - ?

3. Credibility - ?

etc etc

[simcity]

A management who charge at start under 5 % is very fare to me; they are running your account for you.

In the pass to go to see a broker and buy share from him, will cost you 2 % and when your sell 2 % again, not anymore with online trading.

when i was working full time i did not have time to trade and anyway my mortgage was taking most of my income, i did supplement with some blue chip shares and some funds ( all very conservative ) , after 10 years i find myself with a plus plus profit !

When I stop working I change my strategies and trade on line!

[Butterfly]

>>>Actually I don't want to trade every day<<<

You wouldn't have to.

>>>I think of let the money stay 5 or 10 years and than happily finding out that it is more than before.....<<<

5 or 10 years is not long term.  Try a lifetime of investing.  Anything other than that should be kept in a high interest account for emergencies.

>>>I read about bonds, if I can wait and they have a nice rating than there shouldn't be much of a risk, or?<<<

Bonds are not used to make you rich.  They are used in a diversified portfolio to lower your risk.  The lowest risk bonds are short term governments from developed countries and have one to five year terms.  Along with the lower risks you also normally get lower yields.

>>>I guess I need to read 30 years and still don't know anything about it.<<<

You'll still have plenty of time to do the things "you" want to do, but you will have to keep up with any product changes or improvements, and new ideas.

>>>Has anyone a clue on how to start that?<<<

As always you start at the beginning.  Educate yourself.  Nobody will look after "your" money better than yourself.  Diversify among various asset classes and one of the most important criteria is to keep your investment costs low.

>>>How do I find good fund?<<<

You can't.  Even the people considered professionals can't.  They can always find what was  good for the past ten or twenty years, but these same so called "good" funds may have a poor track record for the next ten or twenty years.  Over the long term more than two thirds of active funds can't even beat a passive index.

>>>I only got PM with tipps for books :-)<<<

You can get good advice on the internet for free, if you know where to look.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yep. Excellent points. You are right on the money.

I run an investor information service for foreigners who are investing in the Thai Stock Market. I try to avoid taking investor newbies because there is too much work to "educate" them and avoid misunderstanding. Learn by yourself is the key here. Be smart, be alert, know what you are buying is the only advice to give to a newbie. So many investors make the mistake to invest into things they don't understand, like it's some kind of magic things that will make them win the lottery. It doesn't happen that way. Our portfolios are up 300% over 4 years but it took a lot of work and research to get there.

[malcolminthemiddle]

Finding a "credible money manager" is not easy. Say an entity you would place a large sum of money with to generate a reasonable return (income), with maximum security over the long term during retirement.

Just wondering if www.quadrigafund.com fell into this catagory.

Any one have any recommendations?

Edited August 10, 2005 by malcolminthemiddle

[Firefan]

Sorry but there is NO proof that any fund with a front-end load (or an entry charge, a bid/offer spread or whatever they decide to call it) perform better than funds that do NOT have that. And since there are TONS of funds without any charge... why pay it? At Ameritrade, Etrade, lowtrades.com Etc. you can pick your fund either at no carge (no transaction fee = NTF) or at say 10-25$ in commission nomatter what the buying amount is.

Front loads STINKS.

Cheers!

A management who charge at start under 5 % is very fare to me; they are running your account for you.

In the pass to go to see a broker and buy share from him, will cost you 2 % and when your sell 2 % again, not anymore with online trading.

when i was working full time i did not have time to trade and anyway my mortgage was taking most of my income, i did supplement with some blue chip shares and some funds ( all very conservative ) , after 10 years i find myself with a plus plus profit !

When I stop working I change my strategies and trade on line!

[simcity]

yes sure no guaranty for anything ! but some fund are really good for many horror stories ! One of them are commissions for buying and selling, well not a good things for me ! they drained your account very fast.

One of my mother fund in France was like this one , a lot of buying and selling and no regards for dividends and customers capital !

i still think if you do not have time to trade , the best is a up front fund ! Or some blue ship shares.

yes sure no guaranties for anything ! but some fund are really good for many horror stories ! One of them are commissions for buying and selling , well not a good things for me ! they drained your account very fast, if they are dishonest , many law cases of disappointed customers suing the management .

sorry myself but one of my mother fund in France was like this one , a lot of buying and selling and no regards for dividends and customers capital !

i still think if you do not have time to trade , the best is a up front fund with a establish reputable firm ! or some blue ship .

[nev]

i am from australia and have quiet a bit invested in managed funds whuich on average are returning me around 15/20% a combination of growth and returns.

best one is colonial first state geared shares fund returning 55% and colonial first state imputation fund,yes i dis pay a entry feee for these funds but i think it was 3%.others like my clearview funds had no entry fees and i have held these for 7 years and return around 10/15%.

best to spread your risk as i do have one, colonial first state inrenational share fund that has lost me aroung 40% of origanal value bought $5000 worth currently worth 3 150 so a loss but my gains make up for that.