Sorry I Killed Your Wife, Here's Some Money

[mrbojangles]

Back in the UK.

toni, you keep on referring to the rules of how we live in the West. It isn't the same as how things are settled in Thailand. A similar thing happened to my friend in Indonesia (he wasn't drunk though). He was in a 4x4 and had an accident with a man of 22 on a motorcycle. The amount for "Blood Money" was settled pretty quick, it was the amount the other man's family wanted for the damage to the rusty motor bike that took the longest decide. BTW, it was twice the amount he paid for the "Blood Money". My friend was deeply upset at this tragedy and people looked at him as if he was an Alien when he started to cry. Different lands, different rules.

Mr BoJ

[Boo]

I know someone who killed a thai girl on a motorbike, the accident was her fault (she ran a red light) as she was drunk & my friend was just the unwitting victim, going on his way home on his bike. The police arrested him, the girls father came & told the police that he didn't want to press charges as his daughter had already gone to her new life & my freind paid him 15k baht in compensation (for funeral) & was released. These were both unwealthy thai people from issan. My friend went to the temple for a while to try to come to terms with the taking of a life & lives with this everyday but the fathers idea was that, as his buddhist beleifs meant that his daughter would be reincarnated & that it was an accident, the guy shouldn't be punished anymore than was already going on in his own head & by the people around him. The buddhist belief of bad karma is a fairly big punishment to a beliver.

n.b. this was as explained to me by thai friends & the man involved.

[toni157]

Ok, Boo so how would you feel if it was your child. You are all such hypocrites. You would hound these people if it happened to you. And Mr. Bojangles, for your guide, I lived 4 years in Medan in Sumatra my girlfriend of the time offered me one of her S500 cars to drive around, she ha no idea how bad a driver I was! Her advice was if you kill anyone - don't stop, just drive to the next town. Dont assume you know more than other people because generally there is always some one who knows more than you.

[Harmonica]

Every farang in this thread would be singing a different tune had he himself been in Anita's shoes. 

Thumbs up for Anita 

Uh, okee but what if it were YOUR wife whom was killed? Reverse the roles for a sec H....

Were it my wife who was killed, I would be caught up in the emotion of the episode just like you apparently are -- & would probably holler, moan and groan and demand all sorts of "justice"

None of my groaning however would alter the correct strategy for Anita -- settle it quickly, pull strings, pay the money, put it behind her and walk off a free person. That is her duty to herself regardless whether you Gods think it is OK or not.

Sh*t happens!

[toni157]

Harmonica, can you tell me how you would feel if you were personally responsible for the death of a woman and her child?

[bkkmadness]

Every farang in this thread would be singing a different tune had he himself been in Anita's shoes. 

Thumbs up for Anita 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Uh, okee but what if it were YOUR wife whom was killed? Reverse the roles for a sec H....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Were it my wife who was killed, I would be caught up in the emotion of the episode just like you apparently are -- & would probably holler, moan and groan and demand all sorts of "justice"

None of my groaning however would alter the correct strategy for Anita -- settle it quickly, pull strings, pay the money, put it behind her and walk off a free person. That is her duty to herself regardless whether you Gods think it is OK or not.

Sh*t happens!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The correct strategy should not be made for Anita who is obviously hoping to put this behind her as quickly and quietly as possible and no doubt deal with her own feelings about it after, as most of you would do.

The correct strategy should be aimed at society as a whole, a prison sentence for manslaughter by a drunk driver seems perfectably acceptable and would help society as a whole by making people think before they drink and drive next time.

The situation as it is seems to mean that if you have money and a few contacts you can get off with a fine for manslaughter and if you are poor, its jail. Hardly fair really but this is Thailand's justice system.

Harmonica, for the well being of society as a whole you must think that for drink driving manslaughter, the crime should be punishable by more than an amount of money?

[Nam Kao]

I think i STed her, i am serious

[Harmonica]

Harmonica, unless you are being deliberately provocative, you have a very sad outlook on life. It's odd how so many people regard crimes as minor unless they become a victim. Back in the UK I knew of a guy who was always complaining about the unfairness of drinking and driving laws - until a member of his immediate family was hurt by a drunken driver on New Years Eve, Personally I am appalled at how many farangs here feel that it is acceptable to drive home when they are absolutely hammered. Don't get me wrong, I am a bigger drunk than most people, just feel that when I am drunk I don't need to endanger other people.

No Toni, I was not being provocative -- I meant what I said.

I personally don't drink & drive -- and when I'm home in California I might go for months without even a beer. Why? because the consquences are just plain stiff -- and stupid IMHO.

A drunk man drives a car and ends up killing an innocent person. The victim is dead, but should you throw the book at this man and &lt;deleted&gt; up the rest of his life for unintentional manslaughter?

The law says yes, I say no.

The man needs help, not heavy duty punishment. That's where I stand on the subject.

Sorry to disappoint you.

[toni157]

OK Harmonica, you have taken the first step and admitted you are an American, and therefore the nearest thing we have in this world to a child at any age, but a Californian. Now I understand why not absolve all responsibility for your actions.

I hope I never meet you in Bangkok, unlikely because I avoid self-absorbed US baby boomers, but can I be honest? You are a sad little man who doensn't even care that some poor person has lost everything in their life because, Hey - Money makes everything OK! right

This is Asia where somethings matter more than money, and we have seen the US commitment to SE Asia when money runs out.

Shame on you.

[loong]

I am sorry I comment so much on this subject, but in my opinion this is what is one of the biggest problems in Thailand, (and truth be told throughout the world), that some people think that their childish actions can be washed away just with a few dollars. This man has lost his family and some rich Thai wil get away with it for what, paying GBP11,000. It is shocking, I am sure if a farang had been responsible there would be a public outcry. The hypocrisy in this nation is stomach turning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't believe that there would have been a public outcry if a farang was involved, maybe just a higher payment.

Thai people seem to take death almost in their stride and also seem to consider cash compensation acceptable.

This is Thailand and Thai culture.

I note that it is mostly Farangs who are getting hot under the collar about this.

Most compensation payments are sorted out and paid without the interference of the courts. Agreements are made between the parties involved and end of story.

In Farang land you can wait 5 years b4 going to court and then hand over a huge amount of the settlement to lawyers.

Loss of Human life cannot be equalised by payment of money, but if it is the Thai way and Thais are content with it, so beit

[Harmonica]

Harmonica, can you tell me how you would feel if you were personally responsible for the death of a woman and her child?

We are talking "unintentional" and not premeditated here, aren't we?

OK, if I was personally responsible for the death of a woman and her child, I would feel miserable & depressed, no different than anyone here -- but I would retain sufficient judgement to extricate myself from the situation thru' any means available, even lying my ass off if I had to & bribing all the way to the Pope, if that's what it took.

NO sense in me dying too or having the rest of my life ruined by a self-righteous, vengeful, bloodthirsty mob.

I'd make my peace with the departed spirits, get their forgiveness and be back to normal within 48 hours. And they would not blame me! It was unintentional, due to stupidity & irresponsibility, not malice.

[loong]

The situation as it is seems to mean that if you have money and a few contacts you can get off with a fine for manslaughter and if you are poor, its jail. Hardly fair really but this is Thailand's justice system.

Being poor does not necessarily mean jail - it means you negotiate a lower settlement

[Harmonica]

OK Harmonica, you have taken the first step and admitted you are an American, and therefore the nearest thing we have in this world to a child at any age, but a Californian. Now I understand why not absolve all responsibility for your actions.

I hope I never meet you in Bangkok, unlikely because I avoid self-absorbed US baby boomers, but can I be honest? You are a sad little man who doensn't even care that some poor person has lost everything in their life because, Hey - Money makes everything OK! right

This is Asia where somethings matter more than money, and we have seen the US commitment to SE Asia when money runs out.

Shame on you.

Actually I can tell you Toni that if you were yourself in such a situation and you revealed the benevolent attitude you are showing here, and assuming that it happened here in Thailand, the victim's family and the Police would polish you off and take you for everything you've got and then some.

I believe you are missing the perspective of the bigger picture -- in the larger scheme of things the perpetrator and the victim are equally responisble .

Asking me to explain this is beyond the scope of this discussion, but it does happen to be a subject I love.

[toni157]

Harmonica, this is the last post I will make to you directly. You are worthless. If you kill someone by accident, when you are pissed up and don't wrestle with your conscience then you are a piece of slime. Human beings should understand the consequence of their actions. I really, really hope I never meet you in this country - but If I do I will be sorry for whatever happens to your worthless heart.

Christ? just when I didn't hate all Americans, another one demonstrates what a bunch of self-abssorbed losers they really are. No wonder they lost the war in Vietnam, they have no heart and only love money.

[Harmonica]

Every farang in this thread would be singing a different tune had he himself been in Anita's shoes. 

Thumbs up for Anita 

Uh, okee but what if it were YOUR wife whom was killed? Reverse the roles for a sec H....

Were it my wife who was killed, I would be caught up in the emotion of the episode just like you apparently are -- & would probably holler, moan and groan and demand all sorts of "justice"

None of my groaning however would alter the correct strategy for Anita -- settle it quickly, pull strings, pay the money, put it behind her and walk off a free person. That is her duty to herself regardless whether you Gods think it is OK or not.

Sh*t happens!

The correct strategy should not be made for Anita who is obviously hoping to put this behind her as quickly and quietly as possible and no doubt deal with her own feelings about it after, as most of you would do.

The correct strategy should be aimed at society as a whole, a prison sentence for manslaughter by a drunk driver seems perfectably acceptable and would help society as a whole by making people think before they drink and drive next time.

The situation as it is seems to mean that if you have money and a few contacts you can get off with a fine for manslaughter and if you are poor, its jail. Hardly fair really but this is Thailand's justice system.

Harmonica, for the well being of society as a whole you must think that for drink driving manslaughter, the crime should be punishable by more than an amount of money?

Generally in Thailand, money is all it takes -- in the west one would be looking at considerable jail time. This is where I disagree, BKKM.

It was unintentional manslaughter -- there should be some form of rehab, but jail does not cut it, in my estimation -- it will only make it worse.

There's got to be a better way.

[toni157]

Do any of you posters know where this happened - It was at the Asok/Sukhumvit junction at around about 1 am. Only the largest, most visible interchange in the whole city. OK I am sure she is very sorry, (and her driving away after stopping and looking was just a rash misjudgement), What offends me here is the farangs saying "Hey its OK., let her get on with her life!". And if any of these farangs complain about any other injustice that the feels apply to them - such as visa issues or double pricings, well then I hope they realise how much they value the life of a woman and child.

[Harmonica]

Harmonica, this is the last post I will make to you directly. You are worthless. If you kill someone by accident, when you are pissed up and don't wrestle with your conscience then you are a piece of slime. Human beings should understand the consequence of their actions. I really, really hope I never meet you in this country - but If I do I will be sorry for whatever happens to your worthless heart.

Christ? just when I didn't hate all Americans, another one demonstrates what a bunch of self-abssorbed losers they really are. No wonder they lost the war in Vietnam, they have no heart and only love money.

Come on Toni, lighten up a bit.

I'm the only bad American; the others are not like me. Ask sir Burr; he will readily confirm this.

[toni157]

Yeah Ok, I will lighten up about the death of a child and you can bitch about the inconsistences of living in Thailand.

[bulmercke]

OK Bambina, sorry to offend, I really don't know you or your background - so forgive me.

just in my experience Thai people are very callous to the suffering of the poor Thais, (especially if they come from Isan)! When I first come here in 1987, the average salary was THB5,000 per month. What is it now in 2005? Unchanged, yet when I walk past Bed Club, how many young Thais I see in imported Porsches etc. There is so much wealth in this country, but the selfish rich care nothing about the other Thais. Thai Rak Thai is a joke.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well said.....

[darsie]

I read somewhere that she didn't stop after the accident - and did the typical Thai thing and fled the scene. If this is the case, then this makes this a really shocking case.

[toni157]

It doesn't matter what I think about the Thai people becauase, as always, it is a generalisation. OK if pushed I will say that I think the rich Thais, my girlfriend included, couldn't care less about their compatriats.

Should we as farangs care? Well not if you believe in nihilistic pleasure like many farangs here. But as a human, do you really have no interest in the life of other people? And if that is the case, should you question your motivation for being in a country where life is so cheap?

[Harmonica]

Yeah Ok, I will lighten up about the death of a child and you can bitch about the inconsistences of living in Thailand.

Where have you seen me bitch about the inconsistencies of living in Thailand?

[toni157]

By the way Harmonica, can you possibly explain your earlier post that the perp and the victim are equally to blame.

[bkkmadness]

Generally in Thailand, money is all it takes -- in the west one would be looking at considerable jail time. This is where I disagree, BKKM.

It was unintentional manslaughter -- there should be some form of rehab, but jail does not cut it, in my estimation -- it will only make it worse.

There's got to be a better way.

But a jail term would certainly be a good detterent wouldn't you think? You say that stiff penalties are one reason why you don't drink and drive back in the states.

Sometimes rehab does not work, and rehab in these cases will often only be given to someone after somebody else has died. I think to reduce the amount of cases by stiff penalty detterents seems the best way and take it from there is the best option. As it is now, somebody can cause a manslaughter, and get away with it if they have the cash, thats not right.

[mrbojangles]

Ok, Boo so how would you feel if it was your child. You are all such hypocrites. You would hound these people if it happened to you. And Mr. Bojangles, for your guide, I lived 4 years in Medan in Sumatra my girlfriend of the time offered me one of her S500 cars to drive around, she ha no idea how bad a driver I was! Her advice was if you kill anyone - don't stop, just drive to the next town. Dont assume you know more than other people because generally there is always some one who knows more than you.

OK Harmonica, you have taken the first step and admitted you are an American, and therefore the nearest thing we have in this world to a child at any age, but a Californian. Now I understand why not absolve all responsibility for your actions.

I hope I never meet you in Bangkok, unlikely because I avoid self-absorbed US baby boomers, but can I be honest? You are a sad little man who doensn't even care that some poor person has lost everything in their life because, Hey - Money makes everything OK! right

This is Asia where somethings matter more than money, and we have seen the US commitment to SE Asia when money runs out.

Shame on you.

I don't believe that there would have been a public outcry if a farang was involved, maybe just a higher payment.

Thai people seem to take death almost in their stride and also seem to consider cash compensation acceptable.

This is Thailand and Thai culture.

I note that it is mostly Farangs who are getting hot under the collar about this.

Most compensation payments are sorted out and paid without the interference of the courts. Agreements are made between the parties involved and end of story.

In Farang land you can wait 5 years b4 going to court and then hand over a huge amount of the settlement to lawyers.

Loss of Human life cannot be equalised by payment of money, but if it is the Thai way and Thais are content with it, so beit

Excellent post Loong.

Harmonica, this is the last post I will make to you directly. You are worthless. If you kill someone by accident, when you are pissed up and don't wrestle with your conscience then you are a piece of slime. Human beings should understand the consequence of their actions. I really, really hope I never meet you in this country - but If I do I will be sorry for whatever happens to your worthless heart.

Christ? just when I didn't hate all Americans, another one demonstrates what a bunch of self-abssorbed losers they really are. No wonder they lost the war in Vietnam, they have no heart and only love money.

As for you Toni, as in your quotes above, you throw insults at anybody who has a different view to you. If you get too wrapped up in a debate that you can't state your point without being personal, i suggest you turn off your computer and go and have a Beer. Lighten up

Mr BoJ

Edited August 6, 2005 by mrbojangles

[toni157]

You know, my original post was saying that rich Thais care little about their poorer compatiots, Seems that some farangs are also equally dismiisive about the people in this country.

[toni157]

Mr Bojangles, don't you understand we are talking about the death of two people. Ok I didn't know them but if it was your wife and child I would like to think I was concerned about them and the result on you, even I don't know you. "lighten up" is an easy thing to say. When I was living in Indonesia in 97, it was this attitude that allowed so many atrocities.

[Harmonica]

By the way Harmonica, can you possibly explain your earlier post that the perp and the victim are equally to blame.

It stems from an axiom in the general study of KARMA after western influences were able to dig deeper and let the subject evolve:

Its called the Overt-Motivator sequence.

The perp and the victim are each completing a cycle that stems from within their own universes and even though they don't know each other in the physical realm, they complete the cycle of action for the sequence. Past life mechanics play a huge role in this.

This is one of the reaons why a person mysteriously cancels a flight that is destined to crash an hour later.

It is impossible for a being who has no vacuum within his psyche w.r.t this sequence to be overcome by accidental harm.

Hey, its a deep subject and I'm tired. We can talk more about it in some other thread.

It is also a beautiful subject -- from this vantage point, you would not be so quick to denounce and condemn me, my friend.

[toni157]

Ohh, you are posting such a deep subject. The cycle of life, what comes around goes around! Well in the real world, when we lose people we suffer. If you cannot understand that simple fact you are an idiot. And in this country - which you profess to understand, you must realise that children (like the girl who died) are part of the cycle. But I am happy to see that your useless Califonian bull is evident, it won't help the poor man but your yankee blood will aprove of the USD16,000 he recieved.

Dont get spiritual on me - I know your people.

[mrbojangles]

Mr Bojangles, don't you understand we are talking about the death of two people. Ok I didn't know them but if it was your wife and child I would like to think I was concerned about them and the result on you, even I don't know you. "lighten up" is an easy thing to say. When I was living in Indonesia in 97, it was this attitude that allowed so many atrocities.

toni, yes i do understand we are talking about a very serious, unfortunate incident. All i am saying, is that other people are allowed to have their views, wether you agree with them or not, without you having to resort to personal insults.

Mr BoJ