Story Telling

[Loz]

I think the desire to be published has to be pretty high to jump through the hoops. Back home in blighty, you could put yourself into the right social groups to " sound out " your ideas and treatments but out here I wouldn't know who to talk to.

What is interesting is that there is so much content on the web, yet so little of it seems to be published. I have often thought a collection of threads from this forum would make a good book as the subject is topical, the characters are relatable and would over time reveal themselves. But the hard part would be the conclusion, that would have to be fictional. But a book about the conflicting views of the hard right, the soft left, the liberal wishy washy types in the middle has the potential to be a gold mine. It could be as funny as blot on the landscape or Jeeves and wooster. Its the classic class clash.

Now when someone steps out and does it, remember, I said it here first.

[mark45y]

There is a cranky old guy who hangs out on 2nd road in Pattaya. He is hard to talk to as he tolerates no disagreement with anything he says. Once upon a time he was one of the most successful B movie writers in Hollywood. He has produced and sold hundreds of scripts. Even in his old age he has written and sold a couple of adventure novels about Thailand that are available for sale at most Thai book stores.

Another Pattaya crawler who now teaches Korean children English wrote a novel that was on the NY times best seller list for ten weeks. That's quite an accomplishment.

On Stickman's reader submissions a man by the name of Dana has a loyal following. His writings are humorous and some of his stories real gems. The mother and son drug smuggling team who worked out of the Nana Plaza hotel is I guess my favorite.

I know all three men. Writers are accessible in Thailand and don't mind talking.

All three used to post on Thai Visa but were kicked off or left for one reason or another. There is a lot of free evaluation available here which some people don't really appreciate.

[canuck1941]

Thank you guys for the invaluable advises.

We re going to do as you say, write a few pages to describe our ideas, then put a copy in an envelope and give it to a lawyer (we already do it for some new items we develop, not as good as a patent but much cheaper).

We still have two problems.

First we are not native english speakers. It should be ok for the beginning but if people like our ideas, can we find professional writers to translate our story in proper english ? Where ?

But the most important, where to send our first draft to have the best chances it will be read by a decision maker and not shelved indefinitely by some overworked clerk ?

It's great to see you guys are going ahead, even though I don't know exactly how the mechanics of it will work, but you do seem a clever lot.

You have at least two years to worry about where to send "our" first draft. Remember, it's called show business. Show what you can do and maybe we can do business. Typically, a writer may write in the morning and do marketing in the afternoon. At times one outweighs the other, like when you've finished a story and want to get it market, or when you begin a new work and spend your time in what I call focussed daydreaming. It is no reflection on your abilities nor your ambition, but a three year time scale before you have something for the screenplay market is not unusal, and there may be many reasons why your script is not bought, none of them concerning the literary merits of your story. A screenplay is a bastard literary form. If you have a story worth telling, with a short story you might see it in print in a year. Maybe one of your collective is a whiz at marketing.

Usually, beginners into this craft of storytelling, professional liars if truth be told, show their newbie status by worrying too much about "someone stealing my idea" until they come to realize after a few winters that stealing someone's idea is absolutely ludicrous. Most writers have so many bloody ideas of their own that they want to express in their own way, they can't be bothered with yours. You may think your idea is original but probably it isn't, which doesn't matter. The most important thing is for you to have the foundation, the architecture of the story in place. Why don't each one of you write the first five pages, or a single scene, then compare?

You know, I kinda envy you guys, a team working on another problem solving issue, siting around a table of beers, many many beers, talking and arguing and laughing and what not all night. There are aspects of the writing life that can't be beat but in the end you have to do it all by yourself. It's more like golf than football. Cheers.

[mark45y]

I think the desire to be published has to be pretty high to jump through the hoops. Back home in blighty, you could put yourself into the right social groups to " sound out " your ideas and treatments but out here I wouldn't know who to talk to.

What is interesting is that there is so much content on the web, yet so little of it seems to be published. I have often thought a collection of threads from this forum would make a good book as the subject is topical, the characters are relatable and would over time reveal themselves. But the hard part would be the conclusion, that would have to be fictional. But a book about the conflicting views of the hard right, the soft left, the liberal wishy washy types in the middle has the potential to be a gold mine. It could be as funny as blot on the landscape or Jeeves and wooster. Its the classic class clash.

Now when someone steps out and does it, remember, I said it here first.

How many are there? How many fledgling writers? How many that would attend writers workshops? A large bookstore chain in the states used to have writers workshops one night a week. A group of writers would gather and one or two would read a part of their latest works and the others would comment. I went once. I was writing a short story about Amish hookers. They asked me not to come back.

I went to a writers bar or something like that in Chiang Mai once and there was no one there so I never went back.

I have always thought there was room for a writer's bar/workshop idea but I guess it would have to be in Bangkok and I can't stand Bangkok for more than a couple of hours.

Although when first here I read the typical Thai story about bar girl and Falang boy with spies, or drugs or some other twist it gets old quick.

No one outside of Thailand and a very small niche market wants to hear about bar girls anyway.

I used to post on an international stripper forum. Men from other parts of the world are not at all interested in Thailand because it makes them appear stupid. Other strippers/hookers in denial surely don't want to hear about Thailand.

Thailand is the place where happenings are better left unsaid. It is the reason there are hotels with curtains for your car. No one wants to know. It makes them seem so foolish. Even here on TV there is more denial than Egypt. Truth is stranger than fiction. Reading this forum is proof of that.

[canuck1941]

I have a bit of an interest in this thread because I have already put together (mostly when I was Mai sabai and could do little else) a few short and one book length stories.

Have sent some to a few friends and been told they like them but dont really know if I should make any serious attempt to have them published, after all I only wrote them for myself.

But then again any bucks that came in from something like that would be useful.

I have had a little experience in the past with writing for magazines but that was just to advertise my business without having to pay.

From what little research I have done it looks like you pretty much have to pay someone to get anything published, not really interested in paying to gamble that what I have produced is better than all the other stuff that is submitted.

But if there was a way to get someone to either say it was worth publishing or 'take it home and hang it in the toilet'

Well I suppose everyone would like to see some sort of legacy of themselves left behind.

I suggest you spend more time looking for Writer's markets, publishers and such. Just google it and next thing you know it will be time for supper and you won't be able to shut up with all the exciting stuff you found. Find out what kind of stories they are looking for and see if any of yours could make the grade. Write stories to suit the market. Edgar Allen Poe, for instance, wrote Message in a Bottle because a magazine was offering $50 for the first prize and he needed the money to care for his sick wife "What kind of story do I write that can win the money?" If you don't spend more time on marketing, you'll never know how good you are or how good you could have been.

There are many ways to have your work published, although, the charm of holding your own book in your own hand will never lose its appeal. Well maybe not never.

And that legacy thing. No doubt about it. It's primal. And then, only a few months ago, I realized that the internet is eternal. if someone far into the future googles your name, up comes everything you ever said. A legacy is available to every man and every woman.

You can enter contests that offer feedback, which is what a wannabe writer wants the most. For a fee, you can hire a story editor to advise you. Many pros use this service but few would admit to it. Spend a little cash and see what they say. You've got to get on the Merry-go-round if you want a chance to catch the brass ring. Chook dee.

[canuck1941]

I think the desire to be published has to be pretty high to jump through the hoops. Back home in blighty, you could put yourself into the right social groups to " sound out " your ideas and treatments but out here I wouldn't know who to talk to.

What is interesting is that there is so much content on the web, yet so little of it seems to be published. I have often thought a collection of threads from this forum would make a good book as the subject is topical, the characters are relatable and would over time reveal themselves. But the hard part would be the conclusion, that would have to be fictional. But a book about the conflicting views of the hard right, the soft left, the liberal wishy washy types in the middle has the potential to be a gold mine. It could be as funny as blot on the landscape or Jeeves and wooster. Its the classic class clash.

Now when someone steps out and does it, remember, I said it here first.

How many are there? How many fledgling writers? How many that would attend writers workshops? A large bookstore chain in the states used to have writers workshops one night a week. A group of writers would gather and one or two would read a part of their latest works and the others would comment. I went once. I was writing a short story about Amish hookers. They asked me not to come back.

I went to a writers bar or something like that in Chiang Mai once and there was no one there so I never went back.

I have always thought there was room for a writer's bar/workshop idea but I guess it would have to be in Bangkok and I can't stand Bangkok for more than a couple of hours.

Although when first here I read the typical Thai story about bar girl and Falang boy with spies, or drugs or some other twist it gets old quick.

No one outside of Thailand and a very small niche market wants to hear about bar girls anyway.

I used to post on an international stripper forum. Men from other parts of the world are not at all interested in Thailand because it makes them appear stupid. Other strippers/hookers in denial surely don't want to hear about Thailand.

Thailand is the place where happenings are better left unsaid. It is the reason there are hotels with curtains for your car. No one wants to know. It makes them seem so foolish. Even here on TV there is more denial than Egypt. Truth is stranger than fiction. Reading this forum is proof of that.

You're right about that "writer's" bar in CM. I went twice but the second time I didn't bother ordering. I feel somehow they ripped me off, but Mai pen lai. I don't go there anymore either.

[JurgenG]

yes i like his work among others. the translation is, stop fighting like girls. sartre had some skills. more philosopher than mere author though.

I bought a book, a thesis that argues that existentialism has a lot in common with Buddishm. One of the many books I bought but never had time to read ...

[JurgenG]

How many are there? How many fledgling writers? How many that would attend writers workshops? A large bookstore chain in the states used to have writers workshops one night a week. A group of writers would gather and one or two would read a part of their latest works and the others would comment. I went once. I was writing a short story about Amish hookers. They asked me not to come back.

What would you rate as the most important in a book ? The story, the plot, or the writing skill, the style of the author ?

IMHO, the plot is more important. You can always hire a "ghost writer" to correct a poor style but a boring story, even well written, is still a boring story.

Unless you target the European market of course ...

[mark45y]

How many are there? How many fledgling writers? How many that would attend writers workshops? A large bookstore chain in the states used to have writers workshops one night a week. A group of writers would gather and one or two would read a part of their latest works and the others would comment. I went once. I was writing a short story about Amish hookers. They asked me not to come back.

What would you rate as the most important in a book ? The story, the plot, or the writing skill, the style of the author ?

IMHO, the plot is more important. You can always hire a "ghost writer" to correct a poor style but a boring story, even well written, is still a boring story.

Unless you target the European market of course ...

I'm not a good person to ask. I don't read fiction.

I write text books and manuals and sometimes magazine articles. The story about the Amish hookers was a true story but I couldn't get any newspapers to pick it up at the time.

[Old Croc]

A few years back a couple of young guys (20's at the time) from Australia came up with an original film idea in a genre thats been done to death in films.

They managed to sell the idea in America and the film was produced on a budget of under $1 mill. In 9 weeks it grossed over $103 mill!

They are now up to sequel no. 7 (in 3D) and there are also a couple of popular games based on the series.

These two young guys are now extremely rich and big players in Hollywood.

An original idea can still stand out from the crowd and make dreams come true.

The film? - "Saw"

[JurgenG]

Here we are !

How did they manage to do that ? (sell the idea)

I don't pretend that our ideas will have the same success but we would like to have a try to have no regret ...

[Old Croc]

Here we are !

How did they manage to do that ? (sell the idea)

I don't pretend that our ideas will have the same success but we would like to have a try to have no regret ...

From wiki:

Wan and Whannell made a short version of the film to showcase the script. Whannell played the role of David in the short film, and the leading role of Adam in the feature film. The three producers who saw the short film and read Whannell's screenplay agreed to produce the film before Wan and Whannell even landed in Los Angeles.

[JurgenG]

But how do we contact those producers ?

Probably the mom of one this guy was a high ranking executive in a movie company, just like Bill Gates mom ...

Now if you are Joe Average, how do you contact those guys ?

[IMA_FARANG]

There are agents who are legit that help you write and develop ideas or concepts into a book, movie, etc. for a price. Look in the back pages of magazines for writers or that publish short-stories or poetry by the general public or new writers. Pick an agent that seems to be reliable and mail off your literary effort to them. Expect to be rejected at least 10 times (or more) for any idea they do accept.

Most agents won't even look at a story idea unless you can produce at least an outline of the story...the more detailed the better.

To protect yourself from those who steal such ideas or stories do the following:

1. Any story idea, outline, concept, or such.....write it down (on your computer), print a copy, date it and sign it. If it's more than one page clearly show that it is continued from another page. Date and sign every printed page. The date can be very impotant to prove later that you were the first with the idea. Keep all those dated and signed copies in a flie for later proof of when you created it.

2. If you send anything off to an agent, even if you are sure the agent is reliable, make a printed copy of the cover letter to the agent. Date and sign that so you can prove, if necessary, the date you produced the matierial you mailed to the agent.

3. Register anything you mail, no matter the cost, and keep the registered mail reciepts with the date mailed on them. It's proof of when you mailed the matierial.

4. And finally, expect to get many rejections before you get a hit. If you are serious, never give up and don't get discouraged.

[canuck1941]

But how do we contact those producers ?

Probably the mom of one this guy was a high ranking executive in a movie company, just like Bill Gates mom ...

Now if you are Joe Average, how do you contact those guys ?

An average Joe would google topics like, How to write a screenplay(100's of books on this topic), how to get a Hollywood agent, screenwriter websites and stuff like that. It's all linked together. Many are the organizations that you can subscribe to for information for free. This is the kind of stuff you do after you've finished a day at the keyboard pounding out the great (INSERT COUNTRY OF YOUR CHOICE) screenplay, the marketing.

And I have to add that from my perspective (12 screenplays, one sale unproduced, one option, agents, editors and contests) there is a lot of misinformation on this thread, but none of it will do you any lasting harm. Cheers.

[tutsiwarrior]

with respect to the OP, why should anyone try to sell their stories to the movies at all? if the Nobel literature committee is to be believed recognition by the film industry has no bearing on their yearly selection regarding good story telling...and I believe that Graham Greene was passed over due to this confusion...and, man...he was a good story teller...

in my own case I forgive them for not yet giving me the nod...a personal vignette does not a good story make; evocative perhaps...

[JurgenG]

with respect to the OP, why should anyone try to sell their stories to the movies at all?

Money !

if the Nobel literature committee is to be believed recognition by the film industry has no bearing on their yearly selection regarding good story telling...and I believe that Graham Greene was passed over due to this confusion...and, man...he was a good story teller...

In my parent's house I remember this shelf with these beautiful books, covered in white leather, it was the complete collection of literature Nobel winner since it's creation. We were a family of book lover but I don't think anybody ever read one of this book ...

The two guys Old Croc is talking about, nobody will probably ever remember their names, but I'm sure they're living very comfortably. Maybe it's a lack of ambition, but we're ok to settle with that ...

[canuckamuck]

George Stolti wrote a book with the 36 basic plots outlined along with numerous variations. No need to reinvent the wheel. Just google him. Book free on line.

Sorry but Google, wiki and amazon all came up with nothing for that name, are you sure you got it right?

I am interested

[boblunch]

Try "Masterplots"

Sorry but Google, wiki and amazon all came up with nothing for that name, are you sure you got it right?

I am interested

[JurgenG]

Try Georges Polti

[canuckamuck]

Thanks guys, it is "The 36 Dramatic Situations" I found it online at Google books.

[canuck1941]

A few years back a couple of young guys (20's at the time) from Australia came up with an original film idea in a genre thats been done to death in films.

They managed to sell the idea in America and the film was produced on a budget of under $1 mill. In 9 weeks it grossed over $103 mill!

They are now up to sequel no. 7 (in 3D) and there are also a couple of popular games based on the series.

These two young guys are now extremely rich and big players in Hollywood.

An original idea can still stand out from the crowd and make dreams come true.

The film? - "Saw"

Hollywood, dream factory of the world if you ignore Bollywood. Every year in Hollywood, one hears a story of some newbie screenwriter selling a first script for hundreds of thousand of dollars, or going into production one month after the script was bought, or some other dream-come-true. If it did not actually happen, Hollywood would have to invent it. It gives hope to writers but for everyone whose dream comes true, tens of thousands can't get anyone to read their scripts, much less offer an option. Yes, an original idea can stand out from the crowd and make dreams come true, but methinks it's a case of persisting for years and years, then becoming an overnight success. Luck plays a bigger part in this business than you might imagine.

[JurgenG]

Hollywood, dream factory of the world if you ignore Bollywood. Every year in Hollywood, one hears a story of some newbie screenwriter selling a first script for hundreds of thousand of dollars, or going into production one month after the script was bought, or some other dream-come-true. If it did not actually happen, Hollywood would have to invent it. It gives hope to writers but for everyone whose dream comes true, tens of thousands can't get anyone to read their scripts, much less offer an option. Yes, an original idea can stand out from the crowd and make dreams come true, but methinks it's a case of persisting for years and years, then becoming an overnight success. Luck plays a bigger part in this business than you might imagine.

You know what they say, success is 5% inspiration and 95% perspiration.

I believe inspiration is grossly overated

[tutsiwarrior]

Try Georges Polti

Sir Georg Stolti was a conductor/music director with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra...