Hyperpigmentation

[eek]

I have hyperpigmentation on some areas of my face. Yes, because of sunbathing (no lectures on this please!).

I fear the laser treatments, and dont fancy forking out the price (at least not initially..but if no home treatment works..ill consider it down the line).

Ok..so anyway. Found what seems like a good source of home treatments here: http://www.ehow.com/how_4927780_cure-hyperpigmentation-home.html

Any thoughts on this ladies?

Also..where i could get these kinds of products (ie: mandelic acid, concentrated AHA, etc)

I will keep the skin on my face out of the sun..as i realise that would be detrimental to the treatment.

Any suggestions? Hints? Tips? Experiences?

Thanks!

[ClaritySeeker]

Hi

Fellow pigmentation

Annoying! I edited this post and now it's unreadable.... Have to delete. Try the folks @ EDS forums, they have recipes.Supplier - Bulk Actives in Taiwan. Ships small amounts worldwide, very good service.

Edited November 9, 2010 by eek
Amended issues with the post

[eek]

WiII check it out. Thanks CIaritySeeker

[eek]

Ive just been taking a proper look at this site ClaritySeeker, and its fantastic!

[redfish44]

start with lemon juice - never underestimate fresh lemon juice

strongly recomend a dermatologist before you go nuts with chemicals off the internet, at least get their opinion and advice about what NOT to use as some stuff has crazy side effects

[bina]

start with lemon juice - never underestimate fresh lemon juice

strongly recomend a dermatologist before you go nuts with chemicals off the internet, at least get their opinion and advice about what NOT to use as some stuff has crazy side effects

thailand is the land of the skin whiteners... surely there must be stuff every where that will do the job? and i believe its that acid stuff u mentioned above... just try to avoid becoming michael jackson..) ... but why not go to a dermatologist first to get things checked out first.... and then go to a costmetician...unless uve already done so?

bina

[Goinghomesoon]

Hi Eek, I developed a growing patch of dark pigmentation on one forearm (the one that gets the most sun when driving). The doctor prescribed a cream containing urea as the primary ingredient. I had to put it on twice a day and saw results within a few weeks, although I had to use it for some months before getting a really good result. Not a natural product but it worked

[ClaritySeeker]

Most skin lightening products contain hydroquinone which is an effective lightening agent but only while you continue to use it. If you google it you will also find some controversy over the health risks of using hydroquinone long term. I won't get into that debate. Other whitening agents used as an alternative to hydroquinone include....

Arbutin - a naturally occuring substance in bearberry and some other plants

Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate - a vitamin C derivative that is extremely stable and works at a neutral pH.

Kojic acid - a byproduct of sake production

Vitamin A & C - topical application over a long period

Alpha hydroxy acids - actually these do nothing to prevent pigmentation or to remove it either. It just assists with skin cell turnover when used in conjunction with the above.

All of the above (except the AHAs) have a whitening effect by interfering with the melanin synthesis within the skin. So over time the new skin which isn't pigmented will replace the old skin which is. But that also means you are now vulnerable to sun exposure more so than before. Therefore religious use of a sunscreen and staying out of the sun as much as possible must be your new lifestyle. If it's not then you are better off living with the pigmentation. Pigmentation isn't always sun damage, often it's the result of a hormonal change and if so, is particularly difficult to treat. If you have sensitive skin laser treatments and high concentration acid peels can actually cause more pigmentation, making the problem worse.

None of the above will work for all people and all of the above is a very long term use thing before you will see results. At least 3 months of continuous use. This is because the products will only help the new skin not the skin already present and you must wait for the old skin to slough off before you will see results. Typically once you stop using the products the pigmentation will return.

I have very sensitive skin to the point that I cannot even use a low concentration AHA on my face because it burns my skin. Therefore I am unwilling to try laser treatments or clinical acid peels for fear of making my pigmentation worse. But I have gotten good results doing this....

1. Taking a daily spirulina supplement permanently. Spirulina (all green powders actually) contain high levels of beta-carotene and when taken in large doses over a period of at least 6 months does have the effect of producing clearer skin with little side effects. The only side effect was an intense detox I got in the beginning which can avoided if you begin with a low dose and slowly increase it over time. It's very difficult to cause yourself harm by taking a green food supplement.

2. Use a magnesium ascorbyl phosphate serum twice daily. All the other products are too harsh for my skin but I can use MAP without any pain or negative side effects. It's a very gentle and stable form of Vitamin C that is effective at a neutral pH (7) making it non-irritating to the skin and a shelf life of 18 months if kept away from light. Making a serum is simple just MAP + distilled water. I use a concentration of 8% although the recommended concentration is between 2-8% for safe use.

I agree that high concentrations of AHAs can in fact damage your skin and really shouldn't be mixed up at home unless you have a sound knowledge of cosmetic chemistry so that you will get the pH and concentrations right. If you want a good AHA product then probably your dermatologist is the person to see first. Likewise Vitaminc C serums made with L-Ascorbic acid, while easy to make are difficult to stabilise leaving you with a product that may harm your skin if it oxidises.

Pigmentation is a difficult condition to treat and the first treatment for it is to adjust your lifestyle first so you are getting less sun exposure. The catalyst for hyperpigmentation is sun exposure which causes the over-production of melanin in the first place.

[Patsycat]

I have "red head skin" but in the long term I do tan quite well,

I have a sister who is ten years older than me. She goes in the sun all the time. The other day, i got at her about her over sitting in the sun and the effects and skin cancer.

She has moles on her back, all she said to me was that she got them "acidded" off. Supposedly, they had turned into warts or hard moles.

We live in Europe, she goes to Spain or Portugal etc. But two times we went to Kenya, she just sits and sits in the sun all day long. When the rest of us are sitting in the shade.

When i go to hot countries i use factor 30 or 40 or 50. She uses factor 15.

She is addicted to the sun. I try to talk to her but it all comes back to me knowing nothing etc.

I worry about her addiction to the sun and the tan.

[Patsycat]

She is not wrinkled at all and beautiful and my best friend, but i worry.

[sbk]

Most sun damage skin cancer won't kill you, its usually basal cell or squamous cell carcinomas, but melanoma is the nasty one but less common. My father has been having his basal cell carcinomas burned off, cut out and lasered off for the past 15 or 20 years. He grew up on a farm and worked in the sun all summer long and is a red head (or rather was, its a rather lovely shade of silvery blond now).

My mother never really went out in the sun and by the age of 50 had beautiful skin while her best friend Caroline always had a tan and by the age of 50 had cooked herself so thoroughly that she looked like an old shoe and was permanently brown. I do not sunbathe. I get some color from day to day living but I haven't sunbathed since I was a teen.

Anyway, that doesn't solve eek's pigmentation problem, other than go buy a big hat as from what I understand pigmentation is caused mainly by exposure to the sun, secondarily can be hormonal. and finally a third kind present at birth.

[bina]

one of the paradoxes , at least here in israel among many women, is the lack of vit D.. even though i worked in the sun for almost 15 yrs i dressed like a beduin or thai worker, so have always been 'white' (with striking blue leg veins )

we are a mediterrabean country and here among my social groups we are hikers and outdoorsy poeple.but noone left the house w/o hat, sunscreen, t shirt for swimming, and the usual liter of water.

the problem apparently is the 100% success for 'covering up' adverts by doctors,cosmeticians, health groups and school education programs, to sun exposure: hats, long sleeves, high level sun screens, exposure hours (we used to plan our beach trips with our kids around when the sun is least strong: leave before afternoon, or only go after 13:00 ) -- so now apparently a huge group of people (never mind the arab women and religious jewish families that are always covered up and always indoors at home or bible study) that lack vit. D.

ive been told to sit in the sun 20 minutes daily, like i used to do for my iguanas and giant tortoises ... asa they have the same calcium potassium vit D problem.

the 'no sun' program , safe sex for teens/young adults and the 'dont pick wild flowers' programs were much more successful than the 'dont talk on cell phones or sms while driving' and 'drunk driving'-- very little success.

vitamin D is was not added in our milk, although here people have two dairy meals daily, with lots of dairy and veggies as the main food items. babies got a sort of oily drops with E D and something else in it.

i have pigmentation on the corners of my eyes; have put off getting them checked.. along witht he moles, etc... and the internal plumbing, and the rest of the 10,000 kilometer total check up. only now did the blood work for thyroid (prblmes) and now additional hormone checks. my dogs get better care. my computer gets better care!! good to see the vitamin c serum my daughter got me is actually good for something, its the only thing i put on my face...

bina

[Patsycat]

This thread interests me.

As i said, my sister is an over the top sun worshiper- Eek, try the creams - I actually buy in bulk when i am in Thailand the aloe vera in the green bottle. Lasts for years. May not get rid of already burnt faces but it sure does feel nice.

Back to my sister - she is a nurse, premature baby nurse. She should know all the in and outs of sunbathing being a person of the medical persuasion etc. I know more about it than her, and i am just a lowly secretary.

What will piss me off is that she may die of skin cancer - all for a year round tan.

Next year i shall opp for a spray on tan.

Vitamin D - i get it daily when i walk to the shops and back. Here, you go for a drink or two and it is non smoking - we sit outside and get our hour of sunlight.

[canine79]

Skinceuticles has some stuff that u might want to try. I have been using it for some time and v happy with the result.

I am not sure if they sell it in Th or not but u could always try strawberrynet.com . i think they ship to thailando.

If not try skinmedix.com.

Edited November 17, 2010 by canine79

[eek]

THanks for so much feedback all.

Im interested in laser, but too costly.

I will go have a chat at the start of the week with a skin doctor to see about a cream. Dont mind something needing time to go away, just so long as the treatment works and isnt going to burn my skin off!

---

In the meantime..heres a rather daft but amusing video from Thailand on melasma.

[cindyosbourne]

you might want to try Metaderm. it's a skin lightening cream for dark spots, age spots, hyperpigmentation, freckles, melasma, and the like. you might want to google them over. i read many success stories about it in the forums so i think it may really work. it contains no hydroquinone, just natural ingredients. works for all skin types.

[fletchsmile]

THanks for so much feedback all.

Im interested in laser, but too costly.

....

Hi eek,

I suspect that's at the private clinics. My wife had laser treatment done at a government hospital/ clinic. She paid 1,500 for one treatment (both cheekbones on her face), and I believe you need about 4. So if you're prepared to queue and wait, it may be an option.

I wasn't keen on her doing it to be honest, as I think she looks fine as she is to me, and I was more worried about something going wrong. It's her body though and she was adamant, so I said if she insists, why not go private somewhere like Bumrungrad as her health was more important than the money. She said it was expensive, and insisted on going to the government place, so did her research. The doctor apparently is quite in demand hence the waits and queues.

May be worth checking out if cost is your main thing stopping you for laser. She did at sataban rok piew nang near Victory Monument. (Sorry in UK at moment and no Thai keyboard!. Roughly translates as government skin disease clinic/centre/place).

[Goinghomesoon]

A long time after my first answer, in my case the dermatologist looked at my pigmentation patches and said laser was not the most suitable treatment - it depends on what is the cause, I guess. The cream was low-cost and really effective, it hasn't reappeared at all.

Bina's post about the Vit D deficiency made me remember this thread, as I just read an article saying similar about Australia - the success of the "Slip Slop Slap" campaign (slip on a shirt, slop on sunscreen and slap on a hat) means that many people never get any sun exposure and therefore a large proportion of the Aussie population is Vit D deficient.

[bina]

aha! at leaast someone here pays attention to my random rambles...)

bina

and as we speak teenager is off to eilat with girlfriends on summer break its like 50 degrees there ; so hopefully they are sitting inside some hotel lounge sipping non alcoholic pina coladas and shirley temples while ogleing boys, and not baking on the beach at the red sea (last time she came back the colour of a boiled lobster as she is very very fair and doesnt tan.)

bina

[Pammalitta]

I would suggest Hydroquinone 4% concentration and taper off as soon as yo are satisfied with the result. Usually HQ is quite safe in certain concentration and time. It's also very effective and fast! When u taper off it then u may add VitC, arbutin, kojic acid on and on..

[Beachbunny]

start with lemon juice - never underestimate fresh lemon juice

strongly recomend a dermatologist before you go nuts with chemicals off the internet, at least get their opinion and advice about what NOT to use as some stuff has crazy side effects

You need to be wary of lemon and/or lime juice. You will not know you are photosensitive until you try it and then it's too late.

I had lime on my hands, just from cooking (not on my sensitive face even) I was outside less than ten minutes on

a cloudy day and I had burns on my hands. Even after the blistering disappeared I had red marks on my hands for at least six months.

Beachbunny

[Femme]

I applied sunscreen only on my cheekbones for 1 week (2 years ago) And the weirdest thing is that I only have hyperpigmentation on the cheekbones..

It was 40SPF and all natural ingredients (lavera)

My guess is that I sweat more in the area where I applied sunscreen and the sweat (water) was like a magnifier... does anyone have an other explanation?

I sometimes use lemonjuice or papaya on my face for 10 minutes. You can dilute it with water if is too harsh for the skin. It helps slightly, but staying out of the sun helps most.

Whitening the skin...Thai girlsfriends who whiten their skin have a clear skin, but the skin around the eyes is always darker than the rest of the face..

[DemstarAus]

Magnesium Ascorbyl Phosphate is a great ingredient, you can buy it from companies that manufacture ingredients for cosmetics. Make sure it's the pure powder form. You use it by pinching a small amount of powder into your fingers and rubbing together. It will emulsify into a liquid which you then apply to affected areas.

I would avoid actual skin lightening ingredients, because some simply contain bleach, which will only cause more trouble down the line, it's harsh, will cause more irritation and possible start you right back at square one. Get ingredients which stop melanin (skin pigment) from being produced, and focus on soothing and healing ingredients to stop any responses on your skin. It won't lighten the natural colour of your skin too much, but it will help curb hyper pigmentation.

Avoid skincare products that contain mineral oil (paraffinum liquidum) and any form of unnatural fragrance, usually listed as just 'fragrance'. Achohol Denat is another ingredient to avoid, as well as lanolin. These products all have the possibility to sensitise your skin to further sun exposure, and cause 'post-inflammatory pigmentation' where the skin darkens as a defence agains repetitive micro-injury or the like. A similar thing happens to people that can't help picking at their pimples repeatedly, until it creates a pigmentation scar. Usually these ingredients are used because they are cheap fillers, and it comes from the old cleansers that contained mineral oil - the only way to remove mineral oil from the skin is to use a harsh alcohol that was commonly in toners - cleanse with mineral oil, tone with alcohol. NOT GOOD!

If you do use lemon/lime juice, apply it at night, and make sure you wash your face afterwards or at least in the morning before you get in the daylight.

It's never too late to use an SPF product, if you do find you have sensitive skin, avoid ingredients like Oxybenzone and other similarly named substances. These are 'chemical' sunscreens - that work by being absorbed into the skin and they transform UV radiation into heat energy. Sunblocks (Titanium Dioxide, Zinc Oxide) work by creating a sunscreen on the skin, and actually reflect UV radiation instead of absorbing it. There's nothing scary about chemical sunscreens, it's just a way of differentiating them from physical sunscreens.

Coconut and rosehip oils are in my opinion the absolute best skin oils. I have had remarkable results with my acne scarring, facial pigmentation and stretch marks from using them. Make sure you buy non-heat treated and certified organic if possible.

Be careful with AHA's, they should also only be used at night, and they can be very hard on your skin, often making pigmentation worse. I have heard of women having good results initially, and they really should only be used as a course of treatment, not as a permanent thing. Perhaps for a few months after the sunny season and then leave it until next year or for spot treatments.

Also, pigmentation can be caused by a whole number of different things. Hormonal issues are the big ones. If you're on the pill for example, it may be causing various reactions in your skin. Stress hormones can be disastrous. Pregnancy and breastfeeding can cause pigmentation, various medications, drugs and alcohol, food or skincare allergies or sensitivities... If the pigmentation is serious, it is important to try to narrow the cause down as much as possible and consider your options for alternatives.

Sorry about the rant, I'm a qualified beauty therapist and am very passionate about this sort of thing!

Edited November 28, 2011 by DemstarAus