Obama: Israeli plans for new settlements in East Jerusalem 'not helpful' to peace process

[powderpuff]

Israel had no right whatsoever to board the vessels in international waters.

That's what happens when you try & run a blockade.

Of course Ayers & his pack of murdering terrorists were trying to provoke an international incident. Congrats to Israel for thwarting the terrorists.

[geriatrickid]

Of course they do. A Military blockade of a hostile entity (Hamas) is perfectly legal.

Spoken like a true Israel apologist.... Do you get you lines from the" Defend israel No Matter What Atrocities it Commits Headquarters?

I get sick to my stomach seeing people like you defending the indefensible and inexcusable. Arguing with people like you is completely useless, because according to you and your ilk Israel is always right and the rest of the world is always wrong.

Condemn me too please. The naval security zone is intended to prevent weapons and other tools of aggression from entering an area which has declared war on Israel. What part of this do you not understand. it is all very simple. Hamas agrees to an end to violent attacks on Israel and the security zone can be lifted.

FYI, Egypt enforces the same zone off its waters. Will you be protesting outside the Egyptian embassy anytime soon?

Edited November 10, 2010 by geriatrickid

[Ulysses G.]

I get sick to my stomach seeing people like you...

Honest hate-mongers are so cuddly.

Edited November 10, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[flying]

The naval security zone is intended to prevent weapons and other tools of aggression from entering an area which has declared war on Israel.

FYI, Egypt enforces the same zone off its waters. Will you be protesting outside the Egyptian embassy anytime soon?

I actually would have thought so too but then i saw a list of things that are not allowed in. Foods, computers, refrigerators, building supplies..The list is very long & very unfair IMHO These lists are easily googled.

As for Egypt..Did they go back to taking part in the blockade? I know they joined it in Jan 2010

But I also know they lifted it in in June 2010 the day after the Israelis attack on that flotilla

Last I heard Egypt now feels strongly that Israel is blocking peace.

Egypt says Israeli settlements block road to peace

[Wallaby]

flying, you can't win.

They have rose coloured glasses and refuse to be enlightened by the facts that the rest of the world seem to comprehend so easily.

Next will be the standard anti semitic accusations against those that dare think Israel is anything but sweet and pure.

Best to just go and have a beer and forget them.

[Ulysses G.]

Next will be the standard anti semitic accusations against those that dare think Israel is anything but sweet and pure.

That old dodge.

If you care to go back and examine the threads on Israel in this World News forum, you will soon find that most of the regular Israel bashers have made anti-Semitic statements against Jews (not just Israelis) and have provided links to hate sites with a lot of anti-Jewish (not just Israeli) content as well as far out conspiracy theories.

If it looks like a dog and it barks like a dog...

[Ulysses G.]

Last I heard Egypt now feels strongly that Israel is blocking peace.

Well that is a big surprise. They are so sincere and all.

The blockade included other things besides weapons to convince the Palestinian Arabs to stop backing Hamas who are continually lobbing rockets into civilian areas of Israel and sending in suicide bombers to blow up cafes.. Remember that the Palestinians chose Hamas to represent them.

It is not that hard to figure out and who can blame Israel for defending themselves?

[flying]

flying, you can't win.

They have rose coloured glasses and refuse to be enlightened by the facts that the rest of the world seem to comprehend so easily.

Next will be the standard anti semitic accusations against those that dare think Israel is anything but sweet and pure.

Best to just go and have a beer and forget them.

It is true

They have blinders on & have shut their minds completely.

It is too bad because anyone can say with 100% certainty that nothing is 100% right all the time.

Yet when a zealot backs themselves into the corner of blind faith whether that be to a country, a religion, a political party etc.

The result will always be the same.

They have closed the steel door to their reasoning mind & now will just accept the party line fed to them without any thought or reasoning of their own. Loyalty they think it is.....Yet it is not

All the rest must be wrong because the one person,place, thing that they zealously back HAS to be right.

Yet a thinking person who has reason & logic still in tact knows it is impossible to be right all of the time. Everything is fallible at some point.

A person like that can reason & is not so stiff that they cannot change when confronted with facts & proof that go against their current belief.

Ah well like you say a beer & forget them is best yet...........being an American I resent my government backing in our name one side....even if we do not approve.

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Edited November 11, 2010 by flying

[Ulysses G.]

Some posters need to look in the mirror very carefully.

"The belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the deepest root of all evil that is in the world".

[canuckamuck]

flying, you can't win.

They have rose coloured glasses and refuse to be enlightened by the facts that the rest of the world seem to comprehend so easily.

Next will be the standard anti semitic accusations against those that dare think Israel is anything but sweet and pure.

Best to just go and have a beer and forget them.

It is true

They have blinders on & have shut their minds completely.

It is too bad because anyone can say with 100% certainty that nothing is 100% right all the time.

Yet when a zealot backs themselves into the corner of blind faith whether that be to a country, a religion, a political party etc.

The result will always be the same.

They have closed the steel door to their reasoning mind & now will just accept the party line fed to them without any thought or reasoning of their own. Loyalty they think it is.....Yet it is not

All the rest must be wrong because the one person,place, thing that they zealously back HAS to be right.

Yet a thinking person who has reason & logic still in tact knows it is impossible to be right all of the time. Everything is fallible at some point.

A person like that can reason & is not so stiff that they cannot change when confronted with facts & proof that go against their current belief.

Ah well like you say a beer & forget them is best yet...........being an American I resent my government backing in our name one side....even if we do not approve.

All it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing

Just because your argument and or your debate skills are weak, doesn't mean your opponent does not have an open mind. It is simply the fact that you are unconvincing.

[flying]

Just because your argument and or your debate skills are weak, doesn't mean your opponent does not have an open mind. It is simply the fact that you are unconvincing.

Not what I was thinking at all.

After all I have no horse in the race.

But what I meant was nothing can be 100% right all the time. It does not take a good debater to convince anyone of an immutable fact

[flying]

"The belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the deepest root of all evil that is in the world".

That is exactly what I am saying...Glad to see you agree

[Ulysses G.]

Just because your argument and or your debate skills are weak, doesn't mean your opponent does not have an open mind. It is simply the fact that you are unconvincing.

Being ignorant of a subject that one is pontificating about is another reason. Having an "open mind" when you do not know what you are talking about is quite easy.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

After all I have no horse in the race.

Oh really? You are impartial?

Then why all the hateful rants about Israel in another forum on this very site? You refer to them as criminals and thugs and worse and imply that they are parasites.

If these posts have somehow slipped your mind, I would be happy to provide the link.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

"The belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the deepest root of all evil that is in the world".

That is exactly what I am saying...Glad to see you agree

Good, no more hateful, one-sided posts about Israel and the U.S. I guess.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[flying]

Being ignorant of a subject that one is pontificating about is another reason. Having an "open mind" when you do not know what you are talking about is quite easy.

Well that is another excuse.....I liked your other belief better

"The belief that there is only one truth and that oneself is in possession of it seems to me the deepest root of all evil that is in the world".

That states there is no 1 immutable truth nor one owner of it.

So leaving subjects aside it is good to see you think that at least.

[flying]

Good, no more hateful, one-sided posts about Israel and the U.S. I guess.

Oh I never have claimed one was omniscient

It always takes two to tangle

I do not see Israel making a true attempt at peace

I do not see the US being involved in such action backing one side helpful either

Especially as I said in times of crisis at home in the US.

The US should clean their own house before attempting to help others clean....? others houses?

[flying]

After all I have no horse in the race.

Oh really? You are impartial?

Then why all the hateful rants about Israel in another forum on this very site? You refer to them as criminals and thugs and worse and imply that they are parasites.

If these posts have somehow slipped your mind, I would be happy to provide the link.

Dude.........try to put your questions in one post please we are stealing all the bandwidth here

No I have said many times I think what the Israeli military is doing is terrible. I have referred to them as jack booted thugs & criminals yes.

It is not a hateful rant it is my view of senseless killing in what I see as a very lopsided fight.

The fact that my country takes my tax dollars to help these folks commit what I & many others in the US & world see as crimes does piss me off. Is that not my right as a citizen of the USA to say so?

Or is the Constitution no longer valid in this brave new world?

Edited November 11, 2010 by flying

[Ulysses G.]

The US should clean their own house before attempting to help others clean....? others houses?

Can you name one perfect country?

I think it is better to make the world the best we can without expecting a flawless planet any time soon.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of cultures who do not hold such beliefs and sometimes more enlightened civilizations have to get their hands dirty to deal with them and keep their citizens as safe as is possible in this imperfect world.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

After all I have no horse in the race.

Oh really? You are impartial?

Then why all the hateful rants about Israel in another forum on this very site? You refer to them as criminals and thugs and worse and imply that they are parasites.

If these posts have somehow slipped your mind, I would be happy to provide the link.

No I have said many times I think what the Israeli military is doing is terrible. I have referred to them as jack booted thugs & criminals yes.

So you DO "have a horse in the race".

Please go back and review your last few posts on this thread. You might learn something about yourself.

Edited November 11, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Wallaby]

The US should clean their own house before attempting to help others clean....? others houses?

Can you name one perfect country?

I think it is better to make the world the best we can without expecting a flawless planet any time soon.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of cultures who do not hold such beliefs and sometimes more enlightened civilizations have to get their hands dirty to deal with them and keep their citizens as safe as is possible in this imperfect world.

Who said any country is perfect? But there are certain things a country should be held accountable for by the rest of the world. It seems the tide is turning against Israel in this regard.

As for your comment on 'more enlightened civilizations', well, best IMHO best not to go putting one civilization above another, makes one think they are somehow superior, which I consider to be the root of a lot of problems in the world.

[flying]

No I have said many times I think what the Israeli military is doing is terrible. I have referred to them as jack booted thugs & criminals yes.

So you DO "have a horse in the race".

Please go back and review your last few posts on this thread. You might learn something about yourself.

No you misunderstand

by no horse I mean I & mine are not at gun point from either side.

That does not mean I do not have an opinion on wrong doings being funded by my soon to be bankrupt country.

In the end yes then I will have a horse in the race as will all Americans

[Ulysses G.]

No you misunderstand

Yeah, sure. That's the ticket!

[geriatrickid]

The naval security zone is intended to prevent weapons and other tools of aggression from entering an area which has declared war on Israel.

FYI, Egypt enforces the same zone off its waters. Will you be protesting outside the Egyptian embassy anytime soon?

I actually would have thought so too but then i saw a list of things that are not allowed in. Foods, computers, refrigerators, building supplies..The list is very long & very unfair IMHO These lists are easily googled.

As for Egypt..Did they go back to taking part in the blockade? I know they joined it in Jan 2010

But I also know they lifted it in in June 2010 the day after the Israelis attack on that flotilla

Last I heard Egypt now feels strongly that Israel is blocking peace.

Egypt says Israeli settlements block road to peace

Instead of relying on propaganda sites, why not go to the official site that lists what's banned;

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/Lists_Controlled_Entry_Items_4-Jul-2010.htm

One of the biggest lies pushed is that construction materials are forbidden. Not true. Construction materials go in as long as they are for Palestinian Authority construction projects implemented by the International Community. What this means is that since all of the new residential projects are sponsored and paid for by the EU and the USA, the construction material is not blocked.

Did you know that Gaza residents are allowed to obtain medical treatment in Israel? The catch is that Hamas won't give these people exit visas so they can't leave.

One of the downsides of all the international organizations having a presence on the border watching what goes in and out, means that people who spread lies about the situation cannot support their bull sh*t stories. Every item that goes into Gaza is logged by Israel and is verified by the donor nations. None of the donor nations, nor any charity has ever denied the inventory of items going in on a daily basis. Read it for yourself here. And if you disagree, please provide a source from a reputable government or aid group that says these goods are not shipped in.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/Israeli_humanitarian_lifeline_Gaza_25-May-2010.htm

[flying]

Instead of relying on propaganda sites, why not go to the official site that lists what's banned;

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/Lists_Controlled_Entry_Items_4-Jul-2010.htm

With all due respect I appreciate what your saying but to show 2 Israeli sites & also say not to reply on propaganda is a bit of an oxymoron for me.

The sites & lists I have seen of things refused were not considered propaganda sites.

[flying]

No you misunderstand

Yeah, sure. That's the ticket!

Hey is that a Freudian slip or the weak debating skills Canuckamuck spoke of?

After all that is a Jewish guy in a devil suit isn't it?

[geriatrickid]

With all due respect I appreciate what your saying but to show 2 Israeli sites & also say not to reply on propaganda is a bit of an oxymoron for me.

The sites & lists I have seen of things refused were not considered propaganda sites.

Not an oxymoron. First there is a claim that items are excluded.. Ok, well, if one goes to the list of what's allowed, One sees that many of the allegations are false.

Can the people making the claims provide one example where a shipment of medical aid through a land crossing was denied? Yes, some construction material is blocked, however, that is intended to stop Hamas from building military fortifications. If it is a project approved by the International organizations and the Palestinian Authority (which is about every public building) and all of the subsidized public housing, then the material will get through. The international presence is intended to prevent the goods from being diverted to military use by Hamas.

Then if one looks at the offical logs of what the international organizations and what private groups are sending in, one develops an understanding that goods are indeed flowing into Gaza. Again, I ask you to show me on reputable charity/NGO/ government that denies that this is true. There are international monitors verifying all this stuff.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/Gaza_Strip_crossings_weekly_report_31_Oct_to_6_Nov_2010.htm

Show me one other war zone, where one combatant is as generous in terms of allowing aid in as Israel? And yes it is a war zone. Hamas is at war with Israel.

There is no doubt the trade restrictions are causing discomfort for many. That's the intent. To pressure Hamas through non violent means. However, the people that are suffering are mostly the Hamas bigwigs that can't import their mercedes. Food is available. Pensions, salaries and other handouts are the responsibility of the Palestinioan Authority and Israel takes its instructions from the PA not Hamas. If the PA says to deposit it in west bank financial institutions, then that's what Israel is obliged to do under the agreement made with the USA, Canadian and EU donor nations.

If you say things are not going into Gaza, then please look at the list of goods that's published each week and show me where any of the official foreign monitors say the inventory is false.

[flying]

Not an oxymoron. First there is a claim that items are excluded.. Ok, well, if one goes to the list of what's allowed, One sees that many of the allegations are false.

Can the people making the claims provide one example where a shipment of medical aid through a land crossing was denied? Yes, some construction material is blocked, however, that is intended to stop Hamas from building military fortifications. If it is a project approved by the International organizations and the Palestinian Authority (which is about every public building) and all of the subsidized public housing, then the material will get through. The international presence is intended to prevent the goods from being diverted to military use by Hamas.

Then if one looks at the offical logs of what the international organizations and what private groups are sending in, one develops an understanding that goods are indeed flowing into Gaza. Again, I ask you to show me on reputable charity/NGO/ government that denies that this is true. There are international monitors verifying all this stuff.

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/HumanitarianAid/Palestinians/Gaza_Strip_crossings_weekly_report_31_Oct_to_6_Nov_2010.htm

Show me one other war zone, where one combatant is as generous in terms of allowing aid in as Israel? And yes it is a war zone. Hamas is at war with Israel.

There is no doubt the trade restrictions are causing discomfort for many. That's the intent. To pressure Hamas through non violent means. However, the people that are suffering are mostly the Hamas bigwigs that can't import their mercedes. Food is available. Pensions, salaries and other handouts are the responsibility of the Palestinioan Authority and Israel takes its instructions from the PA not Hamas. If the PA says to deposit it in west bank financial institutions, then that's what Israel is obliged to do under the agreement made with the USA, Canadian and EU donor nations.

If you say things are not going into Gaza, then please look at the list of goods that's published each week and show me where any of the official foreign monitors say the inventory is false.

Well thanks for the links & I will take a look later.

As I said I am leery of governments claims sure any can say things are allowed.

Whether they reach their destination is another.

I did most of my reading back around June when the whole attack deal occurred.

After that I did see some changes due to public/world outcry

Then around June 20th 2010 on BBC they reported

In a statement, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said a long list of previously banned items, which included some food, domestic equipment and building materials would be replaced by a shorter, specific list of "weapons and war materiel".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10361711

So perhaps there is forward motion & that is good.

As for showing you another war zone where someone has blockaded international waters against all countries...your right I cannot show you either one that allowed or one that disallowed. Do I think it should be allowed or continued? I think you know my answer..

There are many civilians there that would not be considered enemy combatants. To basically strangle them is not acceptable & I think the world generally has said so many times.

If not for the US backing none of it would ever be tolerated & hopefully will change.

Edited November 11, 2010 by flying

[Renbe]

flying, you can't win.

They have rose coloured glasses and refuse to be enlightened by the facts that the rest of the world seem to comprehend so easily.

Next will be the standard anti semitic accusations against those that dare think Israel is anything but sweet and pure.

Best to just go and have a beer and forget them.

Hear, hear, well spoken!!! Time will take care of the israeli problem, day by day they're digging themselves deeper in isolation and disgust of the civilized world......

[chuckd]

If not for the US backing none of it would ever be tolerated & hopefully will change.

If not for US backing, Israel, itself, would have become non-existent long ago.

Have you ever wondered who might be state sponsors of Hamas? They are the same sponsors that back Hezbollah.