Mixing Feed Versus Buying Lamtong.

[Scully]

We farm pigs and are a little new to the game, this mean't we needed to research different ways to feed our stock. I was contacted through a freind by another farrang who had just started raisng pigs as his new family had been doing it for twenty years with good profit.

We started our first batch on Nuetrena which had excellent customer service with vet check ups etc however very expensive and the first batch made a little loss.

Panic set in so we ditched nuetrena and went for the cheaper option of lamptong, the new pigs are from the same breeder and are bigger than the previous pigs.

Now onto the farrang I know, he mixes his feed and we have visited him many times thinking with the family having so much experience he might have some good advice.

Anyway to cut a long story short his pigs are around 30 kilo's and ours are now 70-80 and after working out the costs he is paying more money by mixing (not sure if he is feeding enough?).

Now for the question, we raised the new pigs on the normal lamtong mixture up until 60kg however the 60kg-90kg lamtong bags contain the same ingredients and same nutitional content as the 90+ finishing food costing 40 baht less a bag. The women in the shop made us aware of this and she believes its the same product just in different bags anyway it has done no harm whatsoever with our pigs as they are a huge. Is there something in the 60-90kg bag we don't know about?.

It makes a big difference paying 350baht for a bag of lamtong as those that know pigs after 60kg they don't stop eating.

[WatersEdge]

Hi Scully,

I will assume that by Lamtong you mean Rice Bran?

Rice Bran is very high in Phosphorous at 1.7%P

around 3X more than is needed for diet requirement,

but very low in Calcium.

To grow bone, you need 5 Calcium for every 3 Phosphorous,

as bone is Ca₅(PO4)₃OH

High Phosphorous is a good thing...not at all to be avoided.

However, If there is insufficient Calcium to match the available Phosphorous,

the animals won't grow,

and in fact will develop Osteoporosis, degradation of the bone structure

as the excessive Phosphorous leaving the system steals what little Calcium is there out.

This can be dealt with in several ways.

Green forage in general has good Calcium content.

Calcium Hydroxide Ca(OH)₂ is found in every building supply store in Thailand

sold as Poon Khao (Cement White)

It can be blended into the Rice Bran at the rate of 500 grams for each 25 kg Rice Bran.

I did this for many months, and the pigs thrive on it.

I buy it in 10 kg bags in Chiang Mai for B2.50 / kg => B25 / bag.

Building Supply stores sell it for around B12 / kg

I now buy Limestone Crusher Fines from the Aggregate Quarry by the ten wheel truckload.

This is the dust, grit, tiny bits, chips that come from the rock crusher as all the other crushed rock is made.

It is called Hin Fun (Stone Tiny)

but keep in mind that not just any Stone Tiny will work....it has to be Limestone CaCO_3.

It costs B3,000 for 15 metric tons => B0.20 / kg

Since we use it to raise the pH of our acidic soil,

it's already on the farm for that purpose.

We dump a pail sized pile of it into the corner of the pig corral,

so that the pigs have day and night free choice.

They eat an amazingly large amount of it, far more than their dietary need.

An excess of Calcium with respect to Phosphorous is not a problem,

only the other way around.

The deficiency of either Ca or P will equally shut down pig growth.

All other growth functions being the same, everything will slow to that limiting factor.

The feed supplement concentrates have all this figured in,

High Protein

Minerals and Vitamins

so I also have used Laemtong 169 Concentrate Protein 39%

The mixture recipe is on the side of the bag for mixing yellow corn and rice bran.

The last time I bought it, it was B595 per 30 kg bag,

while the similar products from other manufacturers were B720-750

Rice Bran is typically a good feed value,

as the price is B5-7 / kg for most of the year,

maybe as high as B10 in the June through August time,

or if the quality is especially fresh and clean.

The good quality bran has 12% Protein 13% Fat and 50% Starch

This assumes that the bran will cake tightly in your fist.

If it will not cake, then it has too much Rice Hull mixed in,

which is worthless filler working against growth,

by consuming pig stomach capacity.

[Scully]

Thankyou for you reply you obviously know what you are talking about as one of our growers did develop osteoporisis, luckily it was in the latter stages of his life and there was no need for culling.

I have been away for a few days so apologise for the late reply and from now on regarding you posts I will be taking notes.

Cheers Scully.

[fruity]

Hi Scully,

I will assume that by Lamtong you mean Rice Bran?

Rice Bran is very high in Phosphorous at 1.7%P

around 3X more than is needed for diet requirement,

but very low in Calcium.

To grow bone, you need 5 Calcium for every 3 Phosphorous,

as bone is Ca₅(PO4)₃OH

High Phosphorous is a good thing...not at all to be avoided.

However, If there is insufficient Calcium to match the available Phosphorous,

the animals won't grow,

and in fact will develop Osteoporosis, degradation of the bone structure

as the excessive Phosphorous leaving the system steals what little Calcium is there out.

This can be dealt with in several ways.

Green forage in general has good Calcium content.

Calcium Hydroxide Ca(OH)₂ is found in every building supply store in Thailand

sold as Poon Khao (Cement White)

It can be blended into the Rice Bran at the rate of 500 grams for each 25 kg Rice Bran.

I did this for many months, and the pigs thrive on it.

I buy it in 10 kg bags in Chiang Mai for B2.50 / kg => B25 / bag.

Building Supply stores sell it for around B12 / kg

I now buy Limestone Crusher Fines from the Aggregate Quarry by the ten wheel truckload.

This is the dust, grit, tiny bits, chips that come from the rock crusher as all the other crushed rock is made.

It is called Hin Fun (Stone Tiny)

but keep in mind that not just any Stone Tiny will work....it has to be Limestone CaCO_3.

It costs B3,000 for 15 metric tons => B0.20 / kg

Since we use it to raise the pH of our acidic soil,

it's already on the farm for that purpose.

We dump a pail sized pile of it into the corner of the pig corral,

so that the pigs have day and night free choice.

They eat an amazingly large amount of it, far more than their dietary need.

An excess of Calcium with respect to Phosphorous is not a problem,

only the other way around.

The deficiency of either Ca or P will equally shut down pig growth.

All other growth functions being the same, everything will slow to that limiting factor.

The feed supplement concentrates have all this figured in,

High Protein

Minerals and Vitamins

so I also have used Laemtong 169 Concentrate Protein 39%

The mixture recipe is on the side of the bag for mixing yellow corn and rice bran.

The last time I bought it, it was B595 per 30 kg bag,

while the similar products from other manufacturers were B720-750

Rice Bran is typically a good feed value,

as the price is B5-7 / kg for most of the year,

maybe as high as B10 in the June through August time,

or if the quality is especially fresh and clean.

The good quality bran has 12% Protein 13% Fat and 50% Starch

This assumes that the bran will cake tightly in your fist.

If it will not cake, then it has too much Rice Hull mixed in,

which is worthless filler working against growth,

by consuming pig stomach capacity.

Excellent post RBH. Thanks particularly for the POON KHAO tip

[Scully]

50 kilo's bought yesterday for 85 baht, 1.7 per kilo.

I mixed it with the food but some cement powder settled on top of the feeder, the pigs were all trying to clime on top of the feeder to lick it off. They obviously enjoy it, thanks again.

[WatersEdge]

I'm very curious to know then,

how much they would eat if they were provided free choice Poon Khao.

I have not been that bold, as Poon Khao is chemically active,

but I've given my hogs free choice Limestone dust for a long time,

they still eat it daily, and thrive.

If you have cool splash bath,

it will quickly become acidic from their waste.

I have to drain mine every day and refill with fresh water,

or it will cause chemical burns on their feet.

If you dump Poon Khao in it, the acid will be neutralized,

and the suspended solids will settle quickly.