Hezbollah says ready for another war with Israel

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe best answered by quotes from an article written by King Abdullah of Jordan 60 years ago in 1948.

The history of Israel according to the King of Jordan? What an unbiased source.

I'm thinking

by Micah Halpern

Issue of October 15, 2010/ 14 CheshvanIt's only a wish, I know, but my wish is that Arab leaders would be more rigorous and intellectually honest when they put their arguments forward. If they were more honest, the points they try to put forth would be grounded in reality, not rhetoric.

One of the downfalls of Arab leaders within the greater diplomatic arena is their inability to paint an honest picture. It is their tragic flaw. It explains why Arab leaders, even the most enlightened of Arab leaders, will never be able to grasp and then appreciate the bountiful gains that could be achieved if real peace existed between Palestinians and Israelis.

Most recently, King Abdullah of Jordan a rather enlightened Arab leader blamed the economic lull in Jordan on the lack of progress in the Israeli/Palestinian peace process. The King found yet another way to blame Israel for the problems of his Jordanian people. No doubt, the conflict between Palestinians and Israelis has certain ramifications for Jordanians, no doubt there is trickle down and there may even be some minute number of businesses reluctant to invest in Jordan because of the lack of progress in the direct talks. But it is hard to believe that the hi-tech world is avoiding Jordan because Israel and the Palestinians are not yet back at the peace table. More than hard to believe, it is preposterous.

The King knows the truth, but he needs excuses and Israel is always the perfect excuse. http://thejewishstar...w%C2%A0economy/

Edited November 13, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[David006]

Let me toss this over the wall...

It is undeniable that throughout history the majority of the world has never totally "accepted" Jews except where "convenient" to do so. What is it they do or say that alienated(s) the world from them..their religion and perhaps the modern? trait of flaunting thereof by many(similar to some homosexuals) alone would not seem to be the answer really...business acumen, smarts...??? lots of other races and religions with the same attributes....

[flying]

Now there are even websites dedicated to instructing these apologists

http://www.thejidf.org/

4. If all of the above fail, play the "Anti Semitism Card" - guaranteed success

Wow.....I know of their PR but I never saw anything quite like this website you mentioned

They go so far as to instruct zealots 5000 of them to search face book for 35 days

When they find something they don't agree with they get the facebook account closed.

They do this by making claims quoted below

So much for any view that is against theirs eh?

3) Click "report group"

4) Complete, by explaining the "Reason" (ie. attacks individuals or groups, it is a terrorist group, this group promotes violence, this group promotes hatred, and/or this group is for the destruction of Israel, and the USA, etc.)

They then go on to show how to do the same on

You Tube

Wikipedia

Personal Blogs

Word Press

Pretty freaky

Well I guess they have not gotten all of the you tubes with opposing views to theirs removed

Edited November 13, 2010 by flying

[sarahsbloke]

I quote King Abdullah of Jordan I (assassinated in 1951 for agreeing to peace in Palestine)

Someone else quotes King Abdullah of Jordan II .... to cast doubt on my source.

I say I prefer Palestinians to Israelis, someone changes that to ...... I prefer Arabs to Jews (ie I'm an anti-semite).

Then of course that same person mentions 'Nazi Germany' ..... (ie I'm a Nazi)

Shame that someone who has so many books, reads so few of them!

[Ulysses G.]

Jewish people invade and occupy a foreign country

Lock the original inhabitants into concentration camps, beat, kill and bomb them.

They are shocked and surprised when the original inhabitants and the surrounding nations don't appear to like them very much.

I've been in Israel, I've seen the camps, I've spoken to Palestinians who appear to be a very warm and friendly people (unlike the Israelis)

There appears to be something wrong with this world!

Anyone who says that the JEWS invaded Israel and "Lock[ed] the original inhabitants into concentration camps, beat, kill and bomb them" needs to read a few history books.

Are the Palestinians native to the land where Israel now exists?

• "The fact is that today's Palestinians are immigrants from the surrounding nations! I grew up well knowing the history and origins of today's Palestinians as being from Yemen, Saudi Arabia, Morocco, Christians from Greece, Muslim Sherkas from Russia, Muslims from Bosnia, and the Jordanians next door. The civil and tribal wars between Yemmenites (from Yemen) and Kessites (from Banu Kais of Saudi Arabia) ... are well known among Palestinians.
  "My grandfather, who was a dignitary in Bethlehem, almost lost his life by Abdul Qader Al-Husseni (the leader of the Palestinian revolution) after being accused of selling land to Jews. He used to tell us that his village Beit Sahur (The Shepherds Fields) in Bethlehem County was empty before his father settled in the area with six other families. The town has now grown to 30,000 inhabitants."
  - Walid, a Palestinian Arab defector, talking about the recent immigration of Arabs to Palestine.
  quoted from "Answering Islam"
• The current PLO and Arab claim (and mainstream media regurgitation of it) is indeed a very distorted version of `recorded history' and can only qualify as pure Orwellian propaganda. In fact, putting aside all the myths and propaganda, the only area that would qualify historically as truly Arab land, is the Arabian desert peninsula. Unfortunately, it seems that Goebbels was correct in stating that if a lie were repeated often enough, it would come to be "perceived" as truth.
• No doubt, some Arabs have lived in the area of the Mandate of Palestine for many centuries, but not as many of them as had the Jews. What is more, Jews had lived in Arab lands since times preceding Islam itself. And yet, these Jews in Arab lands were never regarded as citizens of the Arab lands they lived in and were unceremoniously expelled in the years subsequent to Israel's establishment. In other words, residency alone did not confer national rights on those who inhabited an area. Nor did it make a people out of congeries of Arabs and other nationalities that had come to the area of the Mandate of Palestine while the Jewish people were restricted. The nations of the world recognized this after World War I when the League of Nations determined that the geographical area called Palestine was to become a homeland for the Jewish people, the people that had been continuously associated with this land since ancient times when it was known as Judea and Samaria.
  - David Basch

So why did so many Arabs end up in Palestine?

• During the British Mandate, even well into the 1940s, Arabs were allowed into "Palestine" in huge numbers without visa or passport, especially from the Hauran District of Syria, while the British continued to do everything possible to prevent Jews from entering, even down to the last minute when all attempts were made to deny entry to thousands of Jewish refugees fleeing the Nazis. Only in 1948 were Jewish refugees allowed free entry to their homeland, and that was because Israel had, once again, become an independent nation.
• [The Arabs of Ottoman Palestine may have] had certain attachments to the fields they were cultivating but at the same time they were destroying the Land. Parkes stated that "in the wars between villages it was far too common a practice to cut down fruit trees and olives and to destroy crops, and this in the end caused as much loss of life through hunger as was caused by the actual casualties of fighting". He concluded that "in spite of the immense fertility of the soil, it is probable that in the first half of the nineteenth century the population sank to the lowest level it had ever known in historic times".
• Palestinian leaders claim that Israel is built on Arab land, when the truth is that eyewitnesses such as Mark Twain and Rev. Manning of England who visited the Holy Land in the last century wrote that the land was barren and empty. The population then was less that 5% of today's population.
  In fact Joan Peters in her book "From Time Immemorial" tells us that the return of the Jews in 1800's and early 1900's created jobs and Arabs from impoverished areas were drawn into the Holy Land for work. Peters also tells us that in 1948 so many Arabs were new to the area and could not qualify for the UN requirement for refugee status (people forced to leave "permanent" or "habitual" homes) that they added a clause permitting refugee status for Arabs who had been there as little as two years.
  Thus the Zionist slogan "The Land without a people for the people without a land" was absolutely correct. The slogan did not mean that there were no inhabitants at all in Palestine, it just indicated that the non-Jewish population constituted a conglomeration of dozens of heterogeneous groups of residents having very little in common, i.e. not constituting a single nation, a people. These residents were not united by any specific national idea. Parkes wrote that the Balfour declaration for the first time established a "unit called Palestine on a political map. ...There was no such thing historically as a 'Palestinian Arab', and there was no feeling of unity among 'the Arabs' of this newly defined area".

So before the creation of the State of Israel, who were the Palestinians?

• Until 1950, the name of the Jerusalem Post was THE PALESTINE POST; the journal of the Zionist Organization of America was NEW PALESTINE; Bank Leumi was the ANGLO-PALESTINE BANK; the Israel Electric Company was the PALESTINE ELECTRIC COMPANY; there was the PALESTINE FOUNDATION FUND and the PALESTINE PHILHARMONIC. All these were Jewish organizations. In America, Zionist youngsters sang "PALESTINE, MY PALESTINE", "PALESTINE SCOUT SONG" and "PALESTINE SPRING SONG" In general, the terms Palestine and Palestinian referred to the region of Palestine as it was. Thus "Palestinian Jew" and "Palestinian Arab" are straightforward expressions. "Palestine Post" and "Palestine Philharmonic" refer to these bodies as they existed in a place then known as Palestine. The adoption of a Palestinian identity by the Arabs of Palestine is a recent phenomenon. Until the establishment of the State of Israel, and for another decade or so, the term Palestinian applied almost exclusively to the Jews.

more http://www.peacefaq....lestinians.html

Edited November 13, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

Then of course that same person mentions 'Nazi Germany' ..... (ie I'm a Nazi)

Sorry, but I have never mentioned anything to do with Nazis in relation to you or your posts.

I did mention the concept of the " Big Lie" about some specific posts by another poster, but it is pretty obvious that I was not refering to you.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[kuffki]

I say I prefer Palestinians to Israelis, someone changes that to ...... I prefer Arabs to Jews (ie I'm an anti-semite).

And Palestinians are who?/what? not Arabs?

Sorry but your incompetence on the matter seems to have no limits at all.

http://en.wikipedia....estinian_people

Have a read another opinion on the matter here http://www.wnd.com/n...RTICLE_ID=31194

PS This one is written by an Arab, this might enlighten you a little.

PPS. Do you prefer Syrians to Jordanians? or how about Lebanese to Iranians( by the way neither of these 2 are Arabs, well about 20-30% of Lebanese are. i thought i add that for your education)

Edited November 13, 2010 by kuffki

[Ulysses G.]

Now there are even websites dedicated to instructing these apologists

http://www.thejidf.org/

4. If all of the above fail, play the "Anti Semitism Card" - guaranteed success

Wow.....I know of their PR but I never saw anything quite like this website you mentioned

To bad they have not been able to get the posts and links claiming that the Jews brought the Holocaust on themselves off the World News forum - the mods had to do it.

Funny I never you see you types objecting to these posts - at all. You are too busy insisting that there are no anti-Semites writing post after post bashing Israel .

Edited November 13, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

I say I prefer Palestinians to Israelis, someone changes that to ...... I prefer Arabs to Jews (ie I'm an anti-semite).

And Palestinians are who?/what? not Arabs?

Sorry but your incompetence on the matter seems to have no limits at all.

http://en.wikipedia....estinian_people

Have a read another opinion on the matter here http://www.wnd.com/n...RTICLE_ID=31194

PS This one is written by an Arab, this might enlighten you a little.

Of course.

[hammered]

I thought in this day and age we looked at people's of nation states rather than ethnic, racial or religious identity. Surely those labelled the Palestinians are the group of people who seek a state for the people who lived and were removed or still live in the geographical area known as Palestine. It doesnt really matter what the ethnic, religious or raical make up of them is. The seeing "people's" over those of nation state is to pander to extrmist lunacy such as Al Qaeda's caliphate dreams and as such should be avoided.

Dont see this has much to do with the topic which in itself raises the interesting prospect of seeing second and fourth generation warfare practicioners clash again which has some interest for any military historian or people with a bent for military startegies although war is never a nice thing. Wonder what the odds are for third time lucky for Israel although 2GW has an abysmal record against 4GW.

[Ulysses G.]

I say I prefer Palestinians to Israelis, someone changes that to ...... I prefer Arabs to Jews (ie I'm an anti-semite).

By the way, if you really think that I am calling you an "anti-Semite" by pointing out your statement that, "I've been in Israel, I've seen the camps, I've spoken to Palestinians who appear to be a very warm and friendly people (unlike the Israelis)", you are wrong, but I apologize.

I was really just saying that it is obvious that you obviously prefer Palestinian Arabs to Israelis which might have something to do with your views.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Ulysses G.]

I quote King Abdullah of Jordan I (assassinated in 1951 for agreeing to peace in Palestine)

Someone else quotes King Abdullah of Jordan II .... to cast doubt on my source.

He was the King of Jordan and was probably killed for annexing land that other Arabs desired, but the fact that he was more moderate than other Arab leaders also contributed. However, he fought Israel and is far from an unbiased source.

During the first Palestinian War of 1948-1949, Abdullah's British-trained Arab Legion held central Palestine, which Abdullah annexed in 1950 over the objections of Palestinians and the other Arab states. Because of this and the general opinion that he was a moderate and was willing to reach an accommodation with Israel, Abdullah was killed by an embittered Palestinian on July 20, 1951, in Jerusalem - the nationalist of one generation assassinating the nationalist of an earlier one.

http://www.answers.c...lah-i-of-jordan

[hobanse]

"Around 2000 BC, Semitic people, the Hebrews, headed by Abraham, passed through Canaan on their way south. About 1300 BC Hebrew tribes under the leadership of Moses returned from Egypt and engaged in wars with the Canaanite tribes for possession of the land. The Philistines in the south, the Canaanites (Jebusites), Phoenicians, Amorites, and Hittites in the north resisted the Hebrew (Israelite) . Four centuries later, the Israelites, under David, were successful in uniting the Hebrew nation, conquering and substantially absorbing the Canaanites. From this point, Israelites, Philistines, Hittites, and Canaanites mixed races and have subsequently been a racially mixed, Semitic people."

and the Israelis killed all Canaanites

In the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely destroy them — the Hittites, Amorites, Canaanites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites — as the LORD your God has commanded you.

I think, not the LORD give the order, but a smard tribeman

And the White House belongs to Sitting Bull. not to Obama!!!

[Ulysses G.]

I think, not the LORD give the order, but a smard tribeman

Those "smards" were vicious!

[cdnvic]

Ok, I don't want to take sides so Flying and Ulysses_G, if you don't stop this incessant bickering I'm suspending you both for a week. And don't bother PM'ing me that it's the other guy's fault either just discuss things in a mature fashion or be quiet for a change.

[orangezeke]

my post was not a joke.

i asked for clarification of your generalities. you reply with more.

point 1. incredibly, you have asked me when it was that you were referring to ! your generalities have confused even yourself.

point 2. you said that more suicide bombers attacked following settlements being stopped. i am asking for you to provide evidence there is a correlation between the two. you provide 2 instances of suicide bombs which no one denies and i think everyone deplores. but im saying they did not happen as a result of the cessation of settlement construction. saying otherwise is as i described 'misinformation'.

point 3. like i said...a stupid example. you have used a domestic event to strengthen your claim for futher supression of a group on an international stage.

point 4. see point 2 where you've use examples of tragedies to elicit a false outcome. israel is well served with this tactic.

point 5. you have asked me the questions i was actually hoping you would have the answers to. at any rate, the example of indiscriminate murder quashes your claim that 'israel does not run random strikes. that event happened june 9. if you need further evidence, in that same month, june 13, an israeli plane fired a missile into a busy gaza city street, killing 11 people, including two children and two medics. in that same month on june 20, the israeli army killed three palestinian children and injured 15 others in gaza with a missile attack. in that same month on june 21, the israelis killed a 35-year old pregnant woman, her brother, and injured 11 others, including 6 children. now please, feel free to answer your own questions.

point 6. lets not forget, this was a reply to your claim. i will show you my sources (which include guardian/wikipedia) when you show me that 100 rockets were ever fired in 1 week. please provide information that shows more than 22 israelis have been killed by rockets, qassam or otherwise fired into israel. "Since Israel withdrew from Gaza in September 2005 'til today, the estimates run between 7,000 and 9,000 heavy artillery shells have been shot and fired into Gaza. On the Palestinian side, the estimates are approximately 1,000 Kassam missiles, crude missiles, have been fired into Israel. So we have a ratio of between seven and nine to one." Norman Finkelstein, July 2006

point 7. i actually laughed out loud when i read your use of the word 'kidnapped'. why do israeli militants 'detain' and 'arrest', whereas palestinian militants 'kidnap'?

we can back and forth about these issues because much is opinion based, but points 5 & 6 are based in fact. truth. if you can't get that right the rest is just rubbish.

To make it short and simple. I do not have the links to all the news from years ago.

I do however see that for you to even accept the truth is beyond reasonable, just for one fact alone that rockets and suicide bombers only stopped when blockade was imposed,

So even assuming that i do not have any back up to my facts, one fact remains that rocket attacks and suicide bombers continued throughout the years despite Israel pulling out from Gaza, Israel giving in to many demands (irrespective f you like it or not, but PM was killed just for that) , and Palestinians demanding Jerusalem to be given to them.

I have no idea how you could even deny that, keeping in mind that all attacks are reported by BBC or CNN, but if you are that interested in Israel, i suggest you follow Israeli press which reports every attack or suicide bomb, but i really doubt you have much interest and more interested in bashing it.

Being put in jail and kidnapped when no one knows your whereabouts or has any rights to even visit is 2 very different things and if you can not comprehend that i really do not see a point even trying to debate on this topic with you.

Talking about point 6 of your post, according to your stats with that much fire power on such a small piece of land which is so densely populated with over 1 000 000 people- half if not more people in Gaza should of been killed.

The only reason why only 22 people were killed according to some source(which i mind you is so wrong that its not even worth going into) is because Israel spends 50% of its budget on defense and has everything possible in place to defend itself so people are warned as the rockets are being fired.

Can you find a link where Palestinians claim they target military or government buildings? i can not, possibly because they do not. They target innocent civilians and really could not care less who they kill.

How can you possibly defend someone who refuses to recognize other people's right to exist????????

Do you see Israel making statements like this headline that Israel is ready for war and in not so many words wants one?

Do you see Israel threatening UN to cut anyones hands or heads should investigation prove something they do not like?

You keep saying Israel strike on some days and for the 3rd time, i am telling that Israel only responds to rocket attacks or known weapons storage.

Rest assured if Israel just did a strike for no reason and evidence to support it, it not only would of made the world news but had enough people like yourself condemning.

The only condemnation that came out and always comes out is for the death of innocent people, but no one condemns the reason for a strike .

For the 3rd time, if school or kindergarden or a condo is used to fire rockets or store them, this is the target that gets hit. If they have no problem allowing terrorists to use their premises as a rocket launcher base knowing the consequences-i am sorry but there is no one to blame.

Yes sometimes strikes miss the target and sometimes hit near by, but this by no means a regular occurrence and again always people in the area are warned of the strike and advised to evacuated the area. This is done by phone calls, sms and leaflets dropped by the planes.

Since Israel is so bad, can you please explain why all the taxes collected from Palestinians living and working in Israel and there are over 1 million of them is given to Palestine Government??? If you need evidence for that, just visit Israel and speak to their tax office.

Since Israel is so bad, can you please explain why there is a law which is very strictly enforced not to discriminate or speak bad about Arab-Israeli's?again if you need evidence, just visit Israel and say something bad about Arabs in public and see what happens to you.

As Ulysses said in post 42

"If the terrorists laid down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace; if Israel laid down its arms tomorrow, there would be genocide."

so let me see if i get this straight. you called my first posting a joke, but both of them have had times, dates, places, names, facts and figures. yours is "I do not have the links to all the news from years ago" but we should still take your word for it ? i don't. in fact, i call bulls*/t.

• you said 100 rockets were fired into israel in a week. you simply made that number up.
• you suggested suicide bombers were sent as a result of settlements being stopped. you made that up.
• when tmd5855 said "This gave Arafat 95% of his demands" you actually quoted this made up number. how do you measure 95% ?
• you say "I do however see that for you to even accept the truth is beyond reasonable, just for one fact alone that rockets and suicide bombers only stopped when blockade was imposed". but i have never questioned that. rockets and suicide bombers have stopped for the most part since the blockade. you made that assumption about me up.
• you said " Israel spends 50% of its budget on defense". you just made that number up - it is closer to 9% !!!

i could go on and on, but it starts to get ridiculous...and a little embarrassing. a tip for new players - google, use it. your posts are the joke, but no one is laughing.

i have never said israel is bad. when you say i do, you put words in my mouth. but i am allowed to question falsehoods that are posted online. i am allowed to state that revision of history is deceitful. i should question current policy that impoverishes a nation and humiliates a proud people. instead of asking 'if israel is so bad...' you should be asking what they could be doing better.

finally, you suggest we take note of ulysses g's quote. im assuming he is quoting mr alan dershowitz - a favorite throw away line of his. it is easy for him to say, because he knows 2 things:

1. it can't be dis-proven

because

2. israel will never lay down their arms.

[kuffki]

my post was not a joke.

i asked for clarification of your generalities. you reply with more.

point 1. incredibly, you have asked me when it was that you were referring to ! your generalities have confused even yourself.

point 2. you said that more suicide bombers attacked following settlements being stopped. i am asking for you to provide evidence there is a correlation between the two. you provide 2 instances of suicide bombs which no one denies and i think everyone deplores. but im saying they did not happen as a result of the cessation of settlement construction. saying otherwise is as i described 'misinformation'.

point 3. like i said...a stupid example. you have used a domestic event to strengthen your claim for futher supression of a group on an international stage.

point 4. see point 2 where you've use examples of tragedies to elicit a false outcome. israel is well served with this tactic.

point 5. you have asked me the questions i was actually hoping you would have the answers to. at any rate, the example of indiscriminate murder quashes your claim that 'israel does not run random strikes. that event happened june 9. if you need further evidence, in that same month, june 13, an israeli plane fired a missile into a busy gaza city street, killing 11 people, including two children and two medics. in that same month on june 20, the israeli army killed three palestinian children and injured 15 others in gaza with a missile attack. in that same month on june 21, the israelis killed a 35-year old pregnant woman, her brother, and injured 11 others, including 6 children. now please, feel free to answer your own questions.

point 6. lets not forget, this was a reply to your claim. i will show you my sources (which include guardian/wikipedia) when you show me that 100 rockets were ever fired in 1 week. please provide information that shows more than 22 israelis have been killed by rockets, qassam or otherwise fired into israel. "Since Israel withdrew from Gaza in September 2005 'til today, the estimates run between 7,000 and 9,000 heavy artillery shells have been shot and fired into Gaza. On the Palestinian side, the estimates are approximately 1,000 Kassam missiles, crude missiles, have been fired into Israel. So we have a ratio of between seven and nine to one." Norman Finkelstein, July 2006

point 7. i actually laughed out loud when i read your use of the word 'kidnapped'. why do israeli militants 'detain' and 'arrest', whereas palestinian militants 'kidnap'?

we can back and forth about these issues because much is opinion based, but points 5 & 6 are based in fact. truth. if you can't get that right the rest is just rubbish.

To make it short and simple. I do not have the links to all the news from years ago.

I do however see that for you to even accept the truth is beyond reasonable, just for one fact alone that rockets and suicide bombers only stopped when blockade was imposed,

So even assuming that i do not have any back up to my facts, one fact remains that rocket attacks and suicide bombers continued throughout the years despite Israel pulling out from Gaza, Israel giving in to many demands (irrespective f you like it or not, but PM was killed just for that) , and Palestinians demanding Jerusalem to be given to them.

I have no idea how you could even deny that, keeping in mind that all attacks are reported by BBC or CNN, but if you are that interested in Israel, i suggest you follow Israeli press which reports every attack or suicide bomb, but i really doubt you have much interest and more interested in bashing it.

Being put in jail and kidnapped when no one knows your whereabouts or has any rights to even visit is 2 very different things and if you can not comprehend that i really do not see a point even trying to debate on this topic with you.

Talking about point 6 of your post, according to your stats with that much fire power on such a small piece of land which is so densely populated with over 1 000 000 people- half if not more people in Gaza should of been killed.

The only reason why only 22 people were killed according to some source(which i mind you is so wrong that its not even worth going into) is because Israel spends 50% of its budget on defense and has everything possible in place to defend itself so people are warned as the rockets are being fired.

Can you find a link where Palestinians claim they target military or government buildings? i can not, possibly because they do not. They target innocent civilians and really could not care less who they kill.

How can you possibly defend someone who refuses to recognize other people's right to exist????????

Do you see Israel making statements like this headline that Israel is ready for war and in not so many words wants one?

Do you see Israel threatening UN to cut anyones hands or heads should investigation prove something they do not like?

You keep saying Israel strike on some days and for the 3rd time, i am telling that Israel only responds to rocket attacks or known weapons storage.

Rest assured if Israel just did a strike for no reason and evidence to support it, it not only would of made the world news but had enough people like yourself condemning.

The only condemnation that came out and always comes out is for the death of innocent people, but no one condemns the reason for a strike .

For the 3rd time, if school or kindergarden or a condo is used to fire rockets or store them, this is the target that gets hit. If they have no problem allowing terrorists to use their premises as a rocket launcher base knowing the consequences-i am sorry but there is no one to blame.

Yes sometimes strikes miss the target and sometimes hit near by, but this by no means a regular occurrence and again always people in the area are warned of the strike and advised to evacuated the area. This is done by phone calls, sms and leaflets dropped by the planes.

Since Israel is so bad, can you please explain why all the taxes collected from Palestinians living and working in Israel and there are over 1 million of them is given to Palestine Government??? If you need evidence for that, just visit Israel and speak to their tax office.

Since Israel is so bad, can you please explain why there is a law which is very strictly enforced not to discriminate or speak bad about Arab-Israeli's?again if you need evidence, just visit Israel and say something bad about Arabs in public and see what happens to you.

As Ulysses said in post 42

"If the terrorists laid down their arms tomorrow, there would be peace; if Israel laid down its arms tomorrow, there would be genocide."

so let me see if i get this straight. you called my first posting a joke, but both of them have had times, dates, places, names, facts and figures. yours is "I do not have the links to all the news from years ago" but we should still take your word for it ? i don't. in fact, i call bulls*/t.

• you said 100 rockets were fired into israel in a week. you simply made that number up.
• you suggested suicide bombers were sent as a result of settlements being stopped. you made that up.
• when tmd5855 said "This gave Arafat 95% of his demands" you actually quoted this made up number. how do you measure 95% ?
• you say "I do however see that for you to even accept the truth is beyond reasonable, just for one fact alone that rockets and suicide bombers only stopped when blockade was imposed". but i have never questioned that. rockets and suicide bombers have stopped for the most part since the blockade. you made that assumption about me up.
• you said " Israel spends 50% of its budget on defense". you just made that number up - it is closer to 9% !!!

i could go on and on, but it starts to get ridiculous...and a little embarrassing. a tip for new players - google, use it. your posts are the joke, but no one is laughing.

i have never said israel is bad. when you say i do, you put words in my mouth. but i am allowed to question falsehoods that are posted online. i am allowed to state that revision of history is deceitful. i should question current policy that impoverishes a nation and humiliates a proud people. instead of asking 'if israel is so bad...' you should be asking what they could be doing better.

finally, you suggest we take note of ulysses g's quote. im assuming he is quoting mr alan dershowitz - a favorite throw away line of his. it is easy for him to say, because he knows 2 things:

1. it can't be dis-proven

because

2. israel will never lay down their arms.

do you actually know where Israel is? where are you pulling your figures from? 9% for defense for a country which is on constant war alert???? what you referring to is % of GDP not budget and its 7% not 9% if you really want to get it right

Since you seem to know so much more, can you please enlighten me what in your opinion Israel should do better or can do better?

Edited November 13, 2010 by kuffki

[sarahsbloke]

I say I prefer Palestinians to Israelis, someone changes that to ...... I prefer Arabs to Jews (ie I'm an anti-semite).

By the way, if you really think that I am calling you an "anti-Semite" by pointing out your statement that, "I've been in Israel, I've seen the camps, I've spoken to Palestinians who appear to be a very warm and friendly people (unlike the Israelis)", you are wrong, but I apologize.

I was really just saying that it is obvious that you obviously prefer Palestinian Arabs to Israelis which might have something to do with your views.

I used to spend a lot of time in Arab countries and Israel, I took out SCUBA diving parties from the UK.

When I was in Libya, it was terrible, western women were groped in crowds, I and others were threatened and money demanded, beggars would follow us around the resort beach, we were warned never to go off alone or into dark streets. I didn't like Libyans.

In my many trips to Egypt, everyone was always very friendly and generous, yes beggars and street vendors did pester for money, but not in a threatening way, and it was OK with them if you walked away.

In Jordan, again everyone was friendly and helpful, I went all sorts of non-tourist places on my own, never any problems. One of the minor princes even took me diving from his private yacht. When my car broke down in the desert, an Arab living nearby drove me 50 miles into the capitol Amman.

Israel, I went there in a relatively quiet period, peace talks were being held, but I was worried about the western stories of Palestinian terrorists. I hired a car with a friend and we drove around the country, when we were looking for the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, we stopped to ask an Arab the way, he got in the car ............ much fear. But he pointed and we took the roads he suggested, when we got to the church, we gave him a few dollars, he went on his way. In Jericho (supposedly very risky) we walked around we weren't threatened by anyone, many smiles and waves. THis sort of behaviour was repeated by almost all the Palestinians we encountered. If we went into a Jewish shop the story was very different, they would ignore us, we weren't gods chosen, so we weren't worth serving, or so it appeared to us. When our car was stopped at a checkpoint my friend had a machine gun barrel pushed into his ear, very aggressive Israeli soldiers. When we walked up the side of Masada, Jews with rifles pushed in front of us to drink from the water provided, gods chosen drink first! When I left Israel, I was interviewed by soldiers at the airport, my luggage was held back for searching and put on a later flight ...... I had been in Arab countries according to my passport. Just a few of the moments that stuck in my mind on my travels

I certainly don't prefer all Arabs to all Jews, my first girlfriend was Jewish (in the UK), my aunt married a Jewish person in the UK, our family visited them every Xmas and he provided me with many happy memories, I helped carry the chairs at my Jewish friends wedding, a Jewish friend in the UK had told me all the best places to visit when in Israel, but the Israelis I met in Israel were total shits (hope I'm allowed to say that).

Just my experiences, I'm sure others will have had better experiences of Israel.

Edited November 13, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Ulysses G.]

finally, you suggest we take note of ulysses g's quote...

1. it can't be dis-proven

because

2. israel will never lay down their arms.

And what do you think would happen if they did?

[Ulysses G.]

I certainly don't prefer all Arabs to all Jews, my first girlfriend was Jewish (in the UK), my aunt married a Jewish person in the UK, our family visited them every Xmas and he provided me with many happy memories, I helped carry the chairs at my Jewish friends wedding, a Jewish friend in the UK had told me all the best places to visit when in Israel, but the Israelis I met in Israel were total shits (hope I'm allowed to say that).

Just my experiences, I'm sure others will have had better experiences of Israel.

One thing I find strange about Israel is that so many people say they are terrible, but so many others - non-Jews - say that they are wonderful.

All I can say is that I meet them all the time and some are very nice and some are not, but they do not seem any worse than any other nationality - IMHO - and a lot better read than most.

I can truly say that I have never found any nationality/religion/etc. where most of the people were not perfectly pleasant with a few a-holes to cause problems for everyone else, but that is life.

Edited November 13, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[kuffki]

I say I prefer Palestinians to Israelis, someone changes that to ...... I prefer Arabs to Jews (ie I'm an anti-semite).

By the way, if you really think that I am calling you an "anti-Semite" by pointing out your statement that, "I've been in Israel, I've seen the camps, I've spoken to Palestinians who appear to be a very warm and friendly people (unlike the Israelis)", you are wrong, but I apologize.

I was really just saying that it is obvious that you obviously prefer Palestinian Arabs to Israelis which might have something to do with your views.

I used to spend a lot of time in Arab countries and Israel, I took out SCUBA diving parties from the UK.

When I was in Libya, it was terrible, western women were groped in crowds, I and others were threatened and money demanded, beggars would follow us around the resort beach, we were warned never to go off alone or into dark streets. I didn't like Libyans.

In my many trips to Egypt, everyone was always very friendly and generous, yes beggars and street vendors did pester for money, but not in a threatening way, and it was OK with them if you walked away.

In Jordan, again everyone was friendly and helpful, I went all sorts of non-tourist places on my own, never any problems. One of the minor princes even took me diving from his private yacht. When my car broke down in the desert, an Arab living nearby drove me 50 miles into the capitol Amman.

Israel, I went there in a relatively quiet period, peace talks were being held, but I was worried about the western stories of Palestinian terrorists. I hired a car with a friend and we drove around the country, when we were looking for the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem, we stopped to ask an Arab the way, he got in the car ............ much fear. But he pointed and we took the roads he suggested, when we got to the church, we gave him a few dollars, he went on his way. In Jericho (supposedly very risky) we walked around we weren't threatened by anyone, many smiles and waves. THis sort of behaviour was repeated by almost all the Palestinians we encountered. If we went into a Jewish shop the story was very different, they would ignore us, we weren't gods chosen, so we weren't worth serving, or so it appeared to us. When our car was stopped at a checkpoint my friend had a machine gun barrel pushed into his ear, very aggressive Israeli soldiers. When we walked up the side of Masada, Jews with rifles pushed in front of us to drink from the water provided, gods chosen drink first! When I left Israel, I was interviewed by soldiers at the airport, my luggage was held back for searching and put on a later flight ...... I had been in Arab countries according to my passport. Just a few of the moments that stuck in my mind on my travels

I certainly don't prefer all Arabs to all Jews, my first girlfriend was Jewish (in the UK), my aunt married a Jewish person in the UK, our family visited them every Xmas and he provided me with many happy memories, I helped carry the chairs at my Jewish friends wedding, a Jewish friend in the UK had told me all the best places to visit when in Israel, but the Israelis I met in Israel were total shits (hope I'm allowed to say that).

Just my experiences, I'm sure others will have had better experiences of Israel.

Finally you made a rational post. Let me explain something to you.

Israeli's are rude people, this kind of behavior is caused by constant threat and fear. As i posted before, everyone has to serve in the army and keep it up till old age, so every single male in the family is at risk of being killed. There is also fear of every time any family member or friend leaves to go to work or elsewhere-they may not return. Try living this kind of life 24/7 for years and see how pleasant you will be. Naturally any people under heavy stress are less likely to be friendly and polite.

The check points are actually set up for tourist security. In many parts of Jerusalem they will not let tourists get through because of their safety. Many in the past have been killed, robbed, assaulted and/or tried to be kidnapped. If this happens then the police/army are forced to go in trying to rescue the tourists which may result in many unnecessary y deaths.

Airport Customs are again for your own protection to ensure you or anyone else will not be blown up in the air or hijacked. While it is annoying and frustrating, this is every day life for Israeli's to ensure the safety.

You were annoyed just with airport, but try going through the same security screening when you go shopping, post office, parks or anywhere else where the risk of attack is high and again this is how people live there.

As for soldiers behavior, to start with, have you come across any soldiers in any part of the world who were on active duty and were friendly?

Also keep in mind, if you were a terrorist, he the soldier be the first one to be killed. So it is only understandable for them to be on the cautious side of things.

Yes they pushed in front of you to have a drink, but perhaps so that they can return fast to their duty making your stay safe and secure.

One very important factor that you seem to forget about Israel and its people, Israel has been at 'war" and constant threat of attack for the past 50(plus) years so you can try to imagine how all people feel and what kind of energy is in the air.

Of course every country has it assh..s, but you need to take into the account circumstances and life style in the country to understand the people and their behavior.

Edited November 13, 2010 by kuffki

[Lancelot]

It would be great if Israel and her neighbors made nice and got on with the business of making money and improving their respectice living standards-but I don't see it happening any time soon

If I had to vote, I'd cast my lot with the Israelies since their neighbors seem intent on whiping them off the map. Its a pity that we, civilization, have not moved on but, well, we haven't.

In the mean time, sounds like the H Group is asking for another ass whoopin

[Ulysses G.]

Israeli's are rude people, this kind of behavior is caused by constant threat and fear.

I have to admit that most of the people raving about how wonderful Israelis are, mean a few years back when they used to feel safer traveling there. Perhaps, as you say, many, many years of being constantly threatened have diminished their hospitality.

[flying]

I certainly don't prefer all Arabs to all Jews,

That was the whole point of my trying to point out the difference.

But these differences fall on deaf ears if the person is a zealot.

Like those that would want all opinions not in line with theirs removed.

From Facebook,YouTube, etc.

Even from Thai news forums!

If I call the Israeli Military Jack boot thugs....because

I am against what the Israel Military is doing with their occupation

that does not make me an Anti Semitic.

If I call the US Military Industrial Complex

occupiers & wrongfully directed by corruption....

That does not make me unpatriotic or un-American

Quite the opposite as I defend the Constitution & the Bill of rights both of

which are now getting trampled in the name of Anti-Terrorism

It is too bad some cannot differentiate between a political view & racism.

A person can in fact have one without the other.

Edited November 13, 2010 by flying

[venturalaw]

I certainly don't prefer all Arabs to all Jews,

That was the whole point of my trying to point out the difference.

But these differences fall on deaf ears if the person is a zealot.

Like those that would want all opinions not in line with theirs removed.

From Facebook,YouTube, etc.

Even from Thai news forums!

If I call the Israeli Military Jack boot thugs....because

I am against what the Israel Military is doing with their occupation

that does not make me an Anti Semitic.

If I call the US Military Industrial Complex

occupiers & wrongfully directed by corruption....

That does not make me unpatriotic or un-American

Quite the opposite as I defend the Constitution & the Bill of rights both of

which are now getting trampled in the name of Anti-Terrorism

It is too bad some cannot differentiate between a political view & racism.

A person can in fact have one without the other.

With regard to the 'US Military Industrial Complex', AKA U.S. Military, in my opinion if one does not support the troops, he/she is anti-American, and if American, unpatriotic. The director of the U.S. Military is the U.S. Government. How can one be against the government and the military, and not be considered against the country?

I agree that the U.S. Constitution is being trampled, but not in the name of anti-terrorism, but by the name of Barack Hussein Obama in the pursuit of socialism. Americans are not a race. Perhaps you do not hate Americans, but from your posts it would appear that you are against America defending itself, and against the principals that made it the strongest nation on Earth.

If you are against America defending itself (defending the American citizenry), it's not a leap to refer to you as anti-American, or, if you are an American, un-American.

Edited November 14, 2010 by venturalaw

[sarahsbloke]

I agree that the U.S. Constitution is being trampled, but not in the name of anti-terrorism, but by the name of Barack Hussein Obama in the pursuit of socialism. Americans are not a race. Perhaps you do not hate Americans, but from your posts it would appear that you are against America defending itself, and against the principals that made it the strongest nation on Earth.

If you are against America defending itself (defending the American citizenry), it's not a leap to refer to you as anti-American, or, if you are an American, un-American.

Sadly

America and its puppet country Israel (or is that the wrong way round) are coming to represent everything that is bad in the world.

Might is right, greed and selfishness is all that matters. I want, I want, if you don't give it to me I will take it.

America polices the world ..... and takes oil from anyone who needs policing.

Just look at the comments from Bush last week saying, torturing prisoners is OK.

The more I read the more I begin to think "America is the great Satan"

But America the country is no longer the American people, I don't think that the people of America are represented by their government any more.

Big business and power groups run the country, the general population have no say.

Sorry that was off topic ... a little bit.

[Ulysses G.]

It will be a sad day when China takes over and the Prophets of Doom really have something to complain about. Of course, they will not be allowed to.

[flying]

in my opinion if one does not support the troops, he/she is anti-American

I agree that the U.S. Constitution is being trampled, but not in the name of anti-terrorism, but by the name of Barack Hussein Obama

You are entitled to your opinion although it is opposite of mine

To confuse the will & the welfare/good of the people/citizens with what the government makes in deals is not uncommon.

But if you think that is the constitution as set forth by the framers then you should look again

Also you are again welcome to your opinion as to who is trashing the Constitution & the Bill of rights....But to say it is Obama is quite silly isn't it?

For the record I am no Obama supporter anymore than I supported Bush but......

It is silly for you to say such a thing as..

The director of the U.S. Military is the U.S. Government

when you realize he...Obama....Had appointed the exact same Robert Gates as Secretary of Defense as GW Bush did.

I know you are a Bush fan & if you think he did any better at upholding the Constitution again....better take another look at that Patriot <sic> act.

To say I am unpatriotic because I do not support those that send our young sons & daughters to a wrongful death is silly & not the same as not supporting the troops.

I would ask the troops to look at their oath & really think if they are upholding it.Perhaps you could take a look too.

You may even be interested in a group called Oath Keepers. Made up of law officers & military.

While this once great Nation sinks into bankruptcy you can make any claims you like. It does not change the end of a once great nation due to these undeclared wars/occupations along with the unbridled theft by highly placed bankers & the FED reserve along with their god Goldman Sachs.

So enjoy watching the right hand as they would intend you too.

Meanwhile the country you claim to be patriotic to is being trashed.

Edited November 14, 2010 by flying

[chuckd]

I certainly don't prefer all Arabs to all Jews,

That was the whole point of my trying to point out the difference.

But these differences fall on deaf ears if the person is a zealot.

Like those that would want all opinions not in line with theirs removed.

From Facebook,YouTube, etc.

Even from Thai news forums!

If I call the Israeli Military Jack boot thugs....because

I am against what the Israel Military is doing with their occupation

that does not make me an Anti Semitic.

If I call the US Military Industrial Complex

occupiers & wrongfully directed by corruption....

That does not make me unpatriotic or un-American

Quite the opposite as I defend the Constitution & the Bill of rights both of

which are now getting trampled in the name of Anti-Terrorism

It is too bad some cannot differentiate between a political view & racism.

A person can in fact have one without the other.

With regard to the 'US Military Industrial Complex', AKA U.S. Military, in my opinion if one does not support the troops, he/she is anti-American, and if American, unpatriotic. The director of the U.S. Military is the U.S. Government. How can one be against the government and the military, and not be considered against the country?

I agree that the U.S. Constitution is being trampled, but not in the name of anti-terrorism, but by the name of Barack Hussein Obama in the pursuit of socialism. Americans are not a race. Perhaps you do not hate Americans, but from your posts it would appear that you are against America defending itself, and against the principals that made it the strongest nation on Earth.

If you are against America defending itself (defending the American citizenry), it's not a leap to refer to you as anti-American, or, if you are an American, un-American.

What I have always found particularly offensive is the greed of the bankers and the individuals involved with the financial system of the US.

I have always pictured them as nothing more than a group of vultures waiting for some poor dead creature to become available for them to devour and consume. They seem to be always trying to hatch some sort of Ponzi scheme to take advantage of an investor or group of investors in order to latch onto more money. Some even resort to pushing penny stocks in order to rope in those investors who don't really have the where with all to afford market play.

As a sign of their uselessness, how many banks and financial institutions had to be bailed out under the TARP plan? By the same token, how much bailout money was spent on the military/industrial complex?

The military/industrial complex didn't cause the current world wide financial crisis, it was the greed of the finance industry.

[flying]

The military/industrial complex didn't cause the current world wide financial crisis, it was the greed of the finance industry.

Dont be silly you think the Military is a for profit organization?

You think the trillions dont come from somewhere?

Trust me there is no military fairy who leaves the $$$ under a tank.

They do not ask when they need money....

http://costofwar.com/

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/03/AR2010090302200.html

Edited November 14, 2010 by flying