Bringing Up A Child In Thailand Or The Uk ?

[slim]

I've lived in Khon Kaen in NE Thailand for the last 7 years. When I came out here I fully expected to spend the rest of my life here but the birth of my first (and last) child 3 years ago has possibly changed all that. All my plans went out of the window when Kitty was born and whereas, when she was born my wife and I intended for her to be raised as a Thai/English child in Thailand, the more I've thought about the merits of the 2 countries the more I seem to be coming down on the side of England.

By the way, much of this has been bought on by the fact that my wife is currently in one of the local (fee charged) hospitals with pneumonia with no immediate release date leaving me to take care of Kitty largely alone though with some family help yesterday and today and if you've never tried to get a 3 year old up, showered, dressed, washed, fed, entertained etc etc on your own at the age of 56 - you're missing nothing.

Anyway, raising a child UK v Thailand pros and cons (by the way I have a small business I run in the UK remotely so I've paid UK taxes and N.I. all my life and have never been on the dole. So far the country has given me nothing other than free medical care so anyone who thinks I'm returning to the UK for free handouts - that is not the case)

Hospitals/Medicine.

In the UK free, in Thailand you either have medical insurance or you pay through the nose. I know Thaksin introduced a national health scheme of sorts for Thai nationals but the standard of care is appalling compared to private.

Education

Uk free, Thailand fee based for most of the decent schools. I think the level of education is similar though much of education is down to the pupil.

Climate

Bit of a no-brainer this one though there's no better place than the UK when its warm and sunny - it just not warm and sunny frequently enough

Cost of living

More expensive in the UK though the current exchange rate has seriously eroded the difference. My 800,000 baht visa requirement used to cost less than £11,000 - its now over £17,000

Food

I love Thai food and you can eat very cheaply in Thailand and eat well but to be honest the quality and range of food available in Thailand just doesn't compare to the UK. Decent potatoes (Jersey Royals, King Edwards etc), decent fruit like real apples not the crap they sell in the supermarkets, Welsh lamb, Barnsley pork chops, Scottish beef, real fresh fish (cod, haddock, Manx kippers) instead of the fresh water nin I'm forced to buy, real meat products from a real butcher - pork pies and sausage rolls, gammon steaks, and especially cheese. There's nothing much better for a snack than a pork pie with a chunk of Lancashire Cheese and some decent tomatoes (that's something else Thailand doesn't have - tomatoes other than ones that wouldn't reach a supermarket shelf in the UK). The list of foods available all over Europe that you cannot buy in Thailand is endless though to be fair you cant buy dead frogs in Makro in Preston.

Things to do

I'm from Blackpool with its miles of seaside. A "things to do and see" book within an hours drive of Blackpool would run into hundreds of pages. Lake District, North Wales, North Yorkshire, Manchester, Liverpool, Blackpool Pleasure Beach, Chester Zoo, castles, amusements, the seaside etc etc etc.

Where I live in Khon Kaen and list of things to see and do you could write on a postcard wearing boxing gloves.

Child benefit

UK yes Thailand no

Housing allowance

UK yes Thailand no

Income support

UK yes Thailand no

I think I may as well stop there. Reading through this I dont know what I'm doing here.

Time to go.

Bye everyone.

Edited November 12, 2010 by slim

[GooEng]

been through the same uk/thailand pros/cons list myself many times in recent years since having my two kids.

i found that i swung one way one day, and then the other the next. often depending on silly issues such as things annoying me or perhaps delighting me about thailand on that particular day. it's a tough decision, but i keep reminding myself that it's the kids i am making the decision for, not myself and i find myself tending to think that despite it's many and increasing problems the uk is still on balance a better option.

better medical and better schools are an obvious and important plus - this leads to cost of living - it can be cheap or expensive anywhere depending on choices you make. obviously thailand IS cheaper than the uk, but not by much these days and when you weigh in private school, health insurance and so on most of us require here in thailand the gap really isn't that much.

but what i found keeps making me tend towards choosing the uk is that i think the habits, attitudes and culture of the uk are still in many ways ones that i would prefer to surround my sons as they grow up.

i'd still prefer to see my kids grow up into farangs.

[slim]

been through the same uk/thailand pros/cons list myself many times in recent years since having my two kids.

i found that i swung one way one day, and then the other the next. often depending on silly issues such as things annoying me or perhaps delighting me about thailand on that particular day. it's a tough decision, but i keep reminding myself that it's the kids i am making the decision for, not myself and i find myself tending to think that despite it's many and increasing problems the uk is still on balance a better option.

better medical and better schools are an obvious and important plus - this leads to cost of living - it can be cheap or expensive anywhere depending on choices you make. obviously thailand IS cheaper than the uk, but not by much these days and when you weigh in private school, health insurance and so on most of us require here in thailand the gap really isn't that much.

but what i found keeps making me tend towards choosing the uk is that i think the habits, attitudes and culture of the uk are still in many ways ones that i would prefer to surround my sons as they grow up.

i'd still prefer to see my kids grow up into farangs.

I agree.

As Kitty is only 3 I think another year or maybe 2 wouldn't hurt here - let her learn good Thai then see how things are in the UK in 2 years time.

You're certainly right about all the annoyances that you have to endure living out here. Apart from those listed above, there's the 90 day reporting and strict visa requirements that make you feel like some criminal. Then there's the piss-poor TV (even on satellite apart from sport), the overt and blatant corruption of everyone in a uniform, not forgetting the fact that no matter how long you live in Thailand you'll always be treated like a foreigner which means no matter what the circumstances are its your fault and not the local if there's an incident of some kind - something I discovered to my cost when some young <deleted> rammed the side of my car and the police said I must have swerved into him!

Time to talk round the missus - good job she loves the UK as all Thais do once they live there. I know several, none of whom want to return to Thailand at any price - says something I think.

[SantiSuk]

I agree with much of the OPs analysis but chose to start life for my now one year old in Thailand because when I looked around the village and the family it is just such a happy environment for raising a small child. I couldn't possibly replicate that in England, where I come from a typical small and disintegrating/globally distributed family.

I'll need to reassess that of course well before school age and am not looking forward to that decision. I hope Chiang Mai will have some good international schools - love BKK for a visit as a singleton and previously on business, but can't see much life quality for a kid/family - same thoughts about UK, I would worry that the rest of the family (my wife and daughter and their Thai-side family) would be miserable. But I guess I need to keep an open mind. I would be interested to hear how anyone has adapted to moving wife and child back to the UK or to BKK having started a few years at the village family base.

[TexasRanger]

Medical competence will be a big issue for me.

Some retard in Sri Songkrm sent my Mum home from the hospital this morning saying she had eaten something bad and would be OK.

2 hours later she was dead.

Incompetence here is indescribable.

[ExpatJ]

Thailand v UK to raise a kid depends on your income i think- if you are short of funds then UK is best for all those reasons you mentioned (free education, benefits etc) if you have the money then i think the level of education at one of the good international schools in Thailand (NIST, Pattana, ISB) is far far better than a UK state school and less expensive than a private UK school (though still very expensive).

One thing to be aware of in UK re: benefits- with the new reforms to the benefit system- if you claim benefits (all those benefits you mentioned will soon be rolled into one 'universal support payment') then you will be expected to work i.e. if you dont find a job you will be required to do un paid voluntary work for one month for every set period of time (im not sure if its every 6 months, or one year)- this is likely to be fairly menial- road sweeping, litter picking etc. If you turn down a job offer/interview your benefits will be cut by i think 20%, if you turn down a 2nd job offer/interview the fine is 3 months NO benefits, turn down a 3rd job offer/interview then its 3 years with ZERO benefits!

In terms of food- you can now get those things you mentioned in Bangkok (but pricey).

I was hoping to send my kids to UK for free-ish university education but i see the government is proposing reforms that mean even basic undergraduate studies will now cost way more- up to 15,000 pounds per year.

[manarak]

Thailand v UK to raise a kid depends on your income i think- if you are short of funds then UK is best for all those reasons you mentioned (free education, benefits etc) if you have the money then i think the level of education at one of the good international schools in Thailand (NIST, Pattana, ISB) is far far better than a UK state school and less expensive than a private UK school (though still very expensive).

I wanted to post something similar.

It is a question of money.

Regarding "school of life", I think Thailand is superior in teaching your child that one's actions matter, that clothes and manners matter, that one should be vigilant in traffic, how to handle poor people, how to get things done, etc.

I'd probably let my children do the international bachelor in Thailand and then let them go study in Europe or USA.

After a while, either they love the shitty climate, treacherous colleagues and the no service high prices society and they stay there, or once they've earned their diploma will come back to Thailand.

The OP writes the youngest child is a girl... in this case it is maybe a little different.

If it was a boy, I'd advise him not to raise a boy in the western context of "the pussy is the holy grail".