Don't Stifle The Thai Language; Let It Live And Breathe

[culcan]

The French tried to legislate against English words and phrases entering theur language, for example "le weekend", "le Parking", they introduced a limit on airtime of AngloAmerican songs, they failed.

Shakespeare is credited with introducing around 3000 new words in his works, about 2000 have survived into current usage,

It still goes on, radar, laser, scuba, are all examples of new words. If a language cannot create new words for new concepts it will simple borrow from other more vibrant languages. By no stretch of imagination would I ever describe Thai as a vibrant progressive language, I see elswhere in ThaiVisa they say Thais read on average 93 minutes a day, I would not count comics as reading

I'm not doubting for a moment your fact about Shakespeare but do you have a source for it. What I'd really like to see is a list of them. You've really piqued my curiosity.

Bill Bryson's "the mother tongue" states that he coined 2000 words and gave us countless phrases such as: one fell swoop, vanish into thin air, flesh and blood, foul play, budge an inch, play fast and loose, to be in a pickle, the milk of human kindness, to eat someone out of house and home, hot-blooded, blinking idiot, green-eyed monster, foregone conclusion, the world's mine oyster.

Its interesting that the three new words you selected are all acronyms. This seems to be common thread in development of modern new words. As technology develops we are using acronyms more an more.

laser

origin:

1955–60; l (ightwave) a (mplification by) s (timulated) e (mission of) r (adiation)

radar

origin:

1940–45, Americanism ; ra (dio) d (etecting) a (nd) r (anging)

scuba

origin:

1950–55; s (elf)- c (ontained) u (nderwater) b (reathing) a (pparatus)

Here's another one.

nimby (not in my back yard)

and then of course there's the famous yuppie of my youth.

Time and time and time again I see articles about Thailand and there one emotion that keeps recurring.

Pity.

I pity their parochial outlook which sometimes extends to xenophobia.

After five years in Thailand I've been in Vietnam for five years. The thirst for knowledge here is so refreshing.

[Somnambulist]

As Chomsky has said, if enough people use the phrase then it is correct.

Ridiculous how Thai's use the "culture" card to object to anything they don't like

yes, enough cultural constipation already

[gilfhunter]

do you mean chai mai??

[swerver]

With the evolution of language comes advancement of the society that uses that language. A language that is technically superior will in no doubt produce technically advanced products. Who is going to doubt that the Germans build the best cars in the world, eg Mercedes and BMW. They can do this because the language that they have is sufficient for producing technically advanced auto mobiles.

The English language also has many benefits, and this has come about because it has been welcoming of all words, from wherever they may come, to advance the usability of the language. This is almost always good, but it also has its downsides as well.

While English can be extremely confusing, it is also one of the most beautiful languages one can use, if used beautifully that is.

Because of Americas massive business strength, English has become the worlds most accepted language for business, and that is the reason why many of us are here in Thailand, to make a living teaching this great language.

The very fact that there are, in any one day, over 250,000 English words commonly used is tantamount to its strength as a language. With the exception of oil rich countries, English is the most commonly spoken language of the affluent. (I always wondered why affluent and effluent were so closely spelled.)

This then has to be the language of choice for a world population. English has so far proven its ability to accept and welcome new words, or at times use words from other languages, to better itself. It is because of this trait that it has become the most learned language across the world today.

As for a recent post about Thai language. Are you sure that they only have 50,000 words? If this is true then this language must be put on the endangered list.

Language also gives a person freedom to express how they feel. Simply stating 'mai bpen rai' when something is too difficult may just be a symptom of not being able to adequately explain the situation. (Remember the Mercedes thing??)

While I agree that the Thai language is fun, it is certainly not up to scratch with the current times that Thailand is in. A world economy. I could go on, but I truly feel that there is little benefit for anyone to learn Thai as a second language, the benefits of having English (or perhaps Chinese) would be great and very beneficial for anyone's earning potential.

(The government doesn't seem to have any problem when the Thai language uses words like "fashion, coffee, computer ect ect", just when the old Thai words are changed to suit the new users of the language.)

Message to the Thai people, stand against the government, and demand for English to be made the second official language of Thailand, it is in your best social and economical interests.

Interesting reading about all this English language pros and cons

Will anyone of you come forward and inform the readers which English language you want the Thai people to learn. The pure English language that is spoken in Inverness, Scotland or any of the manifold English languages spoken around the world. I.e., Jordy, Walsh, Scottish, Aussie, SingEng, HK, India, Paki, and not to forget Texxan English, just to name a few, or for that matter even the singsong Thai English instructed by Thai teachers who give the five tone level Thai language swirl to the English language. Our office females, the few that speak English, speak like that, not exactly what I like to listen to.

From my own life experience I learned that I had a problem when the Dutch became persona non grata in Indonesia when it got its independence in 1949.

Of course for the Dutch government, like any government, it was simple, go back to Holland. And then what? Like all governments, you are back in the country of your birth and that is all they do for you. What about my Higher Education? Well, that’s your problem. Anyhow, I did not just rollover and play dead. In a nutshell to get rid of this pain in the ass (me), I was offered to go to Australia and/or New Zealand to continue my education. Not knowing either country, I enrolled in Australia and in New Zealand plus an air ticket to Auckland with a stopover in Sydney so I could checkout what Sydney U had on offer. Upon arriving in Australia I wondered what these people were speaking. I had learned English Engels in school in Holland. But that was not what these Australians were speaking. I voiced my concern to the admin people at the U and they suggested seeing I also had a place in NZ to proceed on to NZ because as the U officer said, “these Kiwis speak straight English”. Best advice I ever got and I give this same advice to anybody sincerely interested in learning English. Go to school in NZ these people speak straight English from the top of the North Island (Arnhem land) to the bottom of the South Island (Invercargill). Not like Australia were you find a smorgasbord of English language.

[kuffki]

With the evolution of language comes advancement of the society that uses that language. A language that is technically superior will in no doubt produce technically advanced products. Who is going to doubt that the Germans build the best cars in the world, eg Mercedes and BMW. They can do this because the language that they have is sufficient for producing technically advanced auto mobiles.

The English language also has many benefits, and this has come about because it has been welcoming of all words, from wherever they may come, to advance the usability of the language. This is almost always good, but it also has its downsides as well.

While English can be extremely confusing, it is also one of the most beautiful languages one can use, if used beautifully that is.

Because of Americas massive business strength, English has become the worlds most accepted language for business, and that is the reason why many of us are here in Thailand, to make a living teaching this great language.

The very fact that there are, in any one day, over 250,000 English words commonly used is tantamount to its strength as a language. With the exception of oil rich countries, English is the most commonly spoken language of the affluent. (I always wondered why affluent and effluent were so closely spelled.)

This then has to be the language of choice for a world population. English has so far proven its ability to accept and welcome new words, or at times use words from other languages, to better itself. It is because of this trait that it has become the most learned language across the world today.

As for a recent post about Thai language. Are you sure that they only have 50,000 words? If this is true then this language must be put on the endangered list.

Language also gives a person freedom to express how they feel. Simply stating 'mai bpen rai' when something is too difficult may just be a symptom of not being able to adequately explain the situation. (Remember the Mercedes thing??)

While I agree that the Thai language is fun, it is certainly not up to scratch with the current times that Thailand is in. A world economy. I could go on, but I truly feel that there is little benefit for anyone to learn Thai as a second language, the benefits of having English (or perhaps Chinese) would be great and very beneficial for anyone's earning potential.

(The government doesn't seem to have any problem when the Thai language uses words like "fashion, coffee, computer ect ect", just when the old Thai words are changed to suit the new users of the language.)

Message to the Thai people, stand against the government, and demand for English to be made the second official language of Thailand, it is in your best social and economical interests.

Interesting reading about all this English language pros and cons

Will anyone of you come forward and inform the readers which English language you want the Thai people to learn. The pure English language that is spoken in Inverness, Scotland or any of the manifold English languages spoken around the world. I.e., Jordy, Walsh, Scottish, Aussie, SingEng, HK, India, Paki, and not to forget Texxan English, just to name a few, or for that matter even the singsong Thai English instructed by Thai teachers who give the five tone level Thai language swirl to the English language. Our office females, the few that speak English, speak like that, not exactly what I like to listen to.

From my own life experience I learned that I had a problem when the Dutch became persona non grata in Indonesia when it got its independence in 1949.

Of course for the Dutch government, like any government, it was simple, go back to Holland. And then what? Like all governments, you are back in the country of your birth and that is all they do for you. What about my Higher Education? Well, that's your problem. Anyhow, I did not just rollover and play dead. In a nutshell to get rid of this pain in the ass (me), I was offered to go to Australia and/or New Zealand to continue my education. Not knowing either country, I enrolled in Australia and in New Zealand plus an air ticket to Auckland with a stopover in Sydney so I could checkout what Sydney U had on offer. Upon arriving in Australia I wondered what these people were speaking. I had learned English Engels in school in Holland. But that was not what these Australians were speaking. I voiced my concern to the admin people at the U and they suggested seeing I also had a place in NZ to proceed on to NZ because as the U officer said, "these Kiwis speak straight English". Best advice I ever got and I give this same advice to anybody sincerely interested in learning English. Go to school in NZ these people speak straight English from the top of the North Island (Arnhem land) to the bottom of the South Island (Invercargill). Not like Australia were you find a smorgasbord of English language.

Sorry but i have no idea what you are on about.

English is English and it is the same language spoken across all English speaking countries.

The difference is the accents, which at times makes it harder to understand people.

Each country has a slang and thats about it. I am an Australian and have no problems understanding people from all the places you mentioned. The only time i have a problem is when i hear very very strong Irish or Scottish accent, but once in the conversation long enough, always able to catch on the accent.

NZ speaks with very short accent, so if anything learning American or Canadian would be the best because both pronounce all the letters unlike Oz who "swallow" half of the words. but again this has nothing to do with the language itself, but the accents

[chmiroau]

With the evolution of language comes advancement of the society that uses that language. A language that is technically superior will in no doubt produce technically advanced products. Who is going to doubt that the Germans build the best cars in the world, eg Mercedes and BMW. They can do this because the language that they have is sufficient for producing technically advanced auto mobiles.

The English language also has many benefits, and this has come about because it has been welcoming of all words, from wherever they may come, to advance the usability of the language. This is almost always good, but it also has its downsides as well.

While English can be extremely confusing, it is also one of the most beautiful languages one can use, if used beautifully that is.

Because of Americas massive business strength, English has become the worlds most accepted language for business, and that is the reason why many of us are here in Thailand, to make a living teaching this great language.

The very fact that there are, in any one day, over 250,000 English words commonly used is tantamount to its strength as a language. With the exception of oil rich countries, English is the most commonly spoken language of the affluent. (I always wondered why affluent and effluent were so closely spelled.)

This then has to be the language of choice for a world population. English has so far proven its ability to accept and welcome new words, or at times use words from other languages, to better itself. It is because of this trait that it has become the most learned language across the world today.

As for a recent post about Thai language. Are you sure that they only have 50,000 words? If this is true then this language must be put on the endangered list.

Language also gives a person freedom to express how they feel. Simply stating 'mai bpen rai' when something is too difficult may just be a symptom of not being able to adequately explain the situation. (Remember the Mercedes thing??)

While I agree that the Thai language is fun, it is certainly not up to scratch with the current times that Thailand is in. A world economy. I could go on, but I truly feel that there is little benefit for anyone to learn Thai as a second language, the benefits of having English (or perhaps Chinese) would be great and very beneficial for anyone's earning potential.

(The government doesn't seem to have any problem when the Thai language uses words like "fashion, coffee, computer ect ect", just when the old Thai words are changed to suit the new users of the language.)

Message to the Thai people, stand against the government, and demand for English to be made the second official language of Thailand, it is in your best social and economical interests.

Interesting reading about all this English language pros and cons

Will anyone of you come forward and inform the readers which English language you want the Thai people to learn. The pure English language that is spoken in Inverness, Scotland or any of the manifold English languages spoken around the world. I.e., Jordy, Walsh, Scottish, Aussie, SingEng, HK, India, Paki, and not to forget Texxan English, just to name a few, or for that matter even the singsong Thai English instructed by Thai teachers who give the five tone level Thai language swirl to the English language. Our office females, the few that speak English, speak like that, not exactly what I like to listen to.

From my own life experience I learned that I had a problem when the Dutch became persona non grata in Indonesia when it got its independence in 1949.

Of course for the Dutch government, like any government, it was simple, go back to Holland. And then what? Like all governments, you are back in the country of your birth and that is all they do for you. What about my Higher Education? Well, that's your problem. Anyhow, I did not just rollover and play dead. In a nutshell to get rid of this pain in the ass (me), I was offered to go to Australia and/or New Zealand to continue my education. Not knowing either country, I enrolled in Australia and in New Zealand plus an air ticket to Auckland with a stopover in Sydney so I could checkout what Sydney U had on offer. Upon arriving in Australia I wondered what these people were speaking. I had learned English Engels in school in Holland. But that was not what these Australians were speaking. I voiced my concern to the admin people at the U and they suggested seeing I also had a place in NZ to proceed on to NZ because as the U officer said, "these Kiwis speak straight English". Best advice I ever got and I give this same advice to anybody sincerely interested in learning English. Go to school in NZ these people speak straight English from the top of the North Island (Arnhem land) to the bottom of the South Island (Invercargill). Not like Australia were you find a smorgasbord of English language.

Yes I agree. The English language is very changeable, but this is sometimes the beauty of it.

As I teach this language every day, I find it difficult to even start to think about teaching the many varieties of English, so i try to stick to the basic rules of grammar, whilst always leaving open the may digressions of the grammar rules (there are so many) I have found a speciality within my teaching, and that is preparing young Thais for their language learning trip overseas. This has come around because I have spent time as a student in both England and Australia, and as consequence I have many friends from New Zealand. So this is my speciality, preparing young students for their trip down south.

What you are commenting about is very true. English is varied, and although accent does play a major part in English's variations, so does the very evolution of the language depending on the culture that is ever changing in the country that is using it.

Hey, for a little fun why dont you google chinglish. This is a new form of the English language that is proving hard to stop, and its growing in China. There is also a new one, Thailish. And this one is closer to my home. Language will always change, and left in one area long enough will diverge into a new for of the language. What is good with English is that if we all try, we can understand each other with reasonable ease. Forget grammar, forget spelling, forget accent, language is about communicating yourself to others, and for better or worse English does that very well.

If you really want to check out what may just happen to all of our languages, get the film, Code 46. You may have to watch it twice, as the language is a homogeneous version of at least 3 different languages. Fantastic movie and probably typical of what will happen to all of our languages.

[Tod Daniels]

ANY language in the entire world which remains static, doesn't evolve due to the demands placed on it by the users of said language is doomed to eventually die a slow lingering death.

I can’t be the only person whose mind wobbled at the comment by Deputy Prime Minister Trairong Suwankhiri, when he said; "Sometimes we don't even know if the word is Thai or English." The thai language probably has more loan words from Sanskrit, Pali, Khmer, Lao, Chinese, English, and a myraid of other dialects thrown in than a person could shake a stick at.

Even a quick perusal of the thai dictionary will show nearly every single word to do with the internet or I/T is an english loan word. They just have the thai spelling and pronunciation rules used. I for one have never heard of a computer being called by its officially endorsed RID word of คณิตกรณ์ (kha^H nit^H gaawnM); instead everyone I’ve heard has always said คอมพิวเตอร์ (khaawm^M phiu^M dtuuhr^M).

The myopic views people in 'high places' have on the thai language just shows how out of touch they are with your average 'run-of-the-mill' thai youth of today . It rings of the drive back in the early 40's when the nationalist government of Plaek Pibulsonggram in their effort to 'modernize' the world’s take on thailand mandated that greetings in all government offices would heretofore be สวัสดี (sa^L wat^L dee^M) instead of the 3 or four greeting phrases which were in use like; "Have you eaten yet?", What's going on?", and even, "Have you showered yet?". This is how that phrase became to be in usage today.

I even seem to remember reading some press release about one government official who was extremely distraught thai people were answering their mobile phones with the english phrase "hello" ฮัลโล (han^M loh^M) (albeit spoken with an obviously thai accent).

Obviously thai language changes from the powers that be carry a LOT more weight than the ones done by the people actually using the language on a day to day basis .

Languages need to be looked at as 'living entities', not something that must be preserved in its original form since it began being used. In fact a person would be very hard pressed indeed to even begin reading something written in english only a couple hundred years old given its near constant evolution..

[hammered]

With the evolution of language comes advancement of the society that uses that language. A language that is technically superior will in no doubt produce technically advanced products. Who is going to doubt that the Germans build the best cars in the world, eg Mercedes and BMW. They can do this because the language that they have is sufficient for producing technically advanced auto mobiles.

The English language also has many benefits, and this has come about because it has been welcoming of all words, from wherever they may come, to advance the usability of the language. This is almost always good, but it also has its downsides as well.

While English can be extremely confusing, it is also one of the most beautiful languages one can use, if used beautifully that is.

Because of Americas massive business strength, English has become the worlds most accepted language for business, and that is the reason why many of us are here in Thailand, to make a living teaching this great language.

The very fact that there are, in any one day, over 250,000 English words commonly used is tantamount to its strength as a language. With the exception of oil rich countries, English is the most commonly spoken language of the affluent. (I always wondered why affluent and effluent were so closely spelled.)

This then has to be the language of choice for a world population. English has so far proven its ability to accept and welcome new words, or at times use words from other languages, to better itself. It is because of this trait that it has become the most learned language across the world today.

As for a recent post about Thai language. Are you sure that they only have 50,000 words? If this is true then this language must be put on the endangered list.

Language also gives a person freedom to express how they feel. Simply stating 'mai bpen rai' when something is too difficult may just be a symptom of not being able to adequately explain the situation. (Remember the Mercedes thing??)

While I agree that the Thai language is fun, it is certainly not up to scratch with the current times that Thailand is in. A world economy. I could go on, but I truly feel that there is little benefit for anyone to learn Thai as a second language, the benefits of having English (or perhaps Chinese) would be great and very beneficial for anyone's earning potential.

(The government doesn't seem to have any problem when the Thai language uses words like "fashion, coffee, computer ect ect", just when the old Thai words are changed to suit the new users of the language.)

Message to the Thai people, stand against the government, and demand for English to be made the second official language of Thailand, it is in your best social and economical interests.

Interesting reading about all this English language pros and cons

Will anyone of you come forward and inform the readers which English language you want the Thai people to learn. The pure English language that is spoken in Inverness, Scotland or any of the manifold English languages spoken around the world. I.e., Jordy, Walsh, Scottish, Aussie, SingEng, HK, India, Paki, and not to forget Texxan English, just to name a few, or for that matter even the singsong Thai English instructed by Thai teachers who give the five tone level Thai language swirl to the English language. Our office females, the few that speak English, speak like that, not exactly what I like to listen to.

From my own life experience I learned that I had a problem when the Dutch became persona non grata in Indonesia when it got its independence in 1949.

Of course for the Dutch government, like any government, it was simple, go back to Holland. And then what? Like all governments, you are back in the country of your birth and that is all they do for you. What about my Higher Education? Well, that's your problem. Anyhow, I did not just rollover and play dead. In a nutshell to get rid of this pain in the ass (me), I was offered to go to Australia and/or New Zealand to continue my education. Not knowing either country, I enrolled in Australia and in New Zealand plus an air ticket to Auckland with a stopover in Sydney so I could checkout what Sydney U had on offer. Upon arriving in Australia I wondered what these people were speaking. I had learned English Engels in school in Holland. But that was not what these Australians were speaking. I voiced my concern to the admin people at the U and they suggested seeing I also had a place in NZ to proceed on to NZ because as the U officer said, "these Kiwis speak straight English". Best advice I ever got and I give this same advice to anybody sincerely interested in learning English. Go to school in NZ these people speak straight English from the top of the North Island (Arnhem land) to the bottom of the South Island (Invercargill). Not like Australia were you find a smorgasbord of English language.

Sorry but i have no idea what you are on about.

English is English and it is the same language spoken across all English speaking countries.

The difference is the accents, which at times makes it harder to understand people.

Each country has a slang and thats about it. I am an Australian and have no problems understanding people from all the places you mentioned. The only time i have a problem is when i hear very very strong Irish or Scottish accent, but once in the conversation long enough, always able to catch on the accent.

NZ speaks with very short accent, so if anything learning American or Canadian would be the best because both pronounce all the letters unlike Oz who "swallow" half of the words. but again this has nothing to do with the language itself, but the accents

Iirc research showed that the spoken and written English of those of first degree level and above across the English speaking diaspora had more in common with each other in the use of their extended code than their English had with fellow countrymen of lesser education using a more restricted code. I think accent was also a lot less a factor in the higher educated group too.

[overhaul38]

All living languages evolve. You can establish a language police to try to keep it stagnant but technology, globalization, and new generations will revise and (I think) improve the language.

[Piengrudee]

Thai language should stay the way it is. If everyone change it to the way they like, no one will understand no one. Babel Tower? Please don't mess with my language and culture. Please show some respect.

[Thaddeus]

Please don't mess with my language and culture. Please show some respect.

If that is directed at the vast majority of forum members here and the rest of the ex-pat community, you are asking the wrong people.

[animatic]

Please don't mess with my language and culture. Please show some respect.

If that is directed at the vast majority of forum members here and the rest of the ex-pat community, you are asking the wrong people.

Exactly.

It is younger Thais, and not expats, that are changing the language.

It has ALWAYS been like this in all cultures.

Technology and youth are the motors of lingustic development.