How Far Do You Go In Complaining At Euro Food Restos In Thailand

[Jingthing]

OK, here is my true life story. Would you have reacted the same? Would you have reacted differently in your home country or another western country?

I ordered paella at a local French restaurant. I have had it there before two times, and before it was excellent.

This time, the paella (properly served in a metal paella pan) appeared to contain a lot less volume of rice. I spooned some out for a taste. The rice wasn't even nearly finished cooking. It was very hard. Well before al dente rice (which can be rather nice).

So, "decision point" number 1 --

I complained and sent it back. The rice hasn't finished cooking. Of course the staff looked at me like I was a madman. Such fun.

In Thailand, would you have sent that back?

In the west, would you have (assuming yes if you say yes to Thailand)?

Some minutes later (not long enough to give me confidence they had dealt with it properly) they bring out the "fixed" dish. It is now on a plate, not a metal pan (that pissed me off to see) and it is clear to me they really didn't scrape the pan, so the portion appears even smaller than the first time. I figure, OK, this is it, take it or leave it. So I start to eat it, and the rice this time is indeed cooked more but still well short of al dente (still noticeably undercooked) and once I start to eat the seafood and fish and veg, I realize all those things are now horribly OVERCOOKED. Particularly the fish, tough as leather. Perhaps they microwaved it, I don't know, but at that point I realized there was no easy repair for that dish, short of picking out all the chunks of food and cooking the rice separately and/or starting over. The mistake had already been done the first time.

So I ate this mess, feeling annoyed that they expected the full price for their mistake. Next to me another diner was served another paella, it looked fully cooked and lovely and because the rice was cooked, the portion looked considerably bigger. That made me even angrier.

Decision Point 2. I chose to accept the crap. What about you?

In Thailand, would you have sent that back, now demanding they start over and not force you to eat and pay for their mistake?

In the west, would you have (assuming yes if you say yes to Thailand)?

The staff and Euro owner came by the ask me how was it. They expected smiley faces. I told them both it still was not good and I told the owner the chef made a mistake. They didn't know how to react to this, of course, after all I was eating it. It was at this point edible, but very poor (reasons given above).

Decision Point 3. At this point, after eating a mistake, would you have expected or asked for some kind of accommodation for the situation? I chose to remain angry, and would have welcomed some kind of offer (not offered) but this being Thailand, I didn't ask for anything.

In Thailand, would you have expected some compensation (something extra free and/or a discount on the check)?

In the west, would you expect/ask (assuming yes if you say yes to Thailand)?

My impression is that on average diners are much more tolerant of being ripped off at restaurants in this way in Thailand, more so than they would be in the west. I know I am. I also reckon an awful lot of you would have just accepted the first dish of rocky rice.

Comments please.

An amusing aside. It does take some major chutzpah for an American to tell a Frenchman that their Spanish dish wasn't cooked properly.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[onnut]

In Thailand AND the West I would have done the following had I ordered and recieved the same you did.

first time I would of sent it back but not got angry. second time I would have tasted it and if it was as you discribed I would have stood up, and called the staff over and asked for a manager then told the manager I will pay for the drink but not the food and given them the money and walked out!

[Jingthing]

In Thailand AND the West I would have done the following had I ordered and recieved the same you did.

first time I would of sent it back but not got angry. second time I would have tasted it and if it was as you discribed I would have stood up, and called the staff over and asked for a manager then told the manager I will pay for the drink but not the food and given them the money and walked out!

Wow! I respect that of course but further than I would/did go. I wasn't angry the first time, I became angry later (seeing another diner being served a proper paella put me over the top). In the west, I indeed would have been more aggressive the second time and insisted on speaking to a manager but I am not sure I know how far I would have taken it, depending on his reaction. I probably would have asked for a redo or a discount, depending on what was or wasn't offered without asking.

You brought up an interesting point of the dish being as I described. That's where things can get tricky. I am sure some people would be served a paella with lovely toothsome al dente rice and feel that is very bad, they like their rice mushy. When you complain, there is always the element of the restaurant feeling perhaps you are an idiot and don't even know what a dish is supposed to be like. A good restaurant deals with this kind of thing with diplomacy, whether the customer is justified or not.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[sunholidaysun1]

I would have done the same, walk out without paying th e2nd time they got it wrong. Then I would have gone to a Spanish Restaurant and order something French from the menu !!

[Jingthing]

I would have done the same, walk out without paying th e2nd time they got it wrong. Then I would have gone to a Spanish Restaurant and order something French from the menu !!

In my case, this was a place that I intend to visit again (after some amount of time, not sure about having the paella anytime soon though) and have very much enjoyed their food in the past (French and Spanish). I feel that walking out would mean I couldn't easily return, so there is that factor also. I didn't even consider walking out. I suppose I may have if it wasn't a valued place to me (here or in the west).

I understand restaurants make mistakes and sometimes have off nights. The fault here was their failure to deal with the mistake. I actually can't remember even one time in Thailand (Thai restaurant or not) where I have complained about a dish where it has been properly fixed! I think actually redoing the dish with new ingredients is against the local religion. The best experience I had with a similar problem was with a Euro place that served me overcooked fish, which I ate but mentioned the problem to the owner, who comped me a dessert. That was OK and he kept my goodwill.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[onnut]

I feel that you already gave them a chance to put it right the first time, it was then that a manager should come up to you and apoligize and go into the kitchen to make sure it came out correct the second time. if I see food coming back the wrong way in my place, I follow it and find out what was wrong, make sure it gets fixed and then make sure that customer leaves a happy customer. this is the business I am in, it does not happen often but when it does I fix it. I hate places that do not do this! and would not go back ever.

Edited November 15, 2010 by onnut

[Jingthing]

In principle, I shouldn't go back, but given that their food is usually very good and a decent value, I would be punishing myself more than them.

It's funny to me that so far people seem to think I am being too tolerant. It is my strong impression that most expats are even more tolerant than me to being abused by food businesses here. I am trying to achieve a balance here between my arrogant demanding American self and a culture where not making waves is highly valued.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[onnut]

JT, we are very lucky living in Thailand I think, there are thousands of good restaurants in this country, Pattaya has some very good places to choose from and not all of the are expensive. if one gives bad food and bad service, there is no need to return.

[Jingthing]

JT, we are very lucky living in Thailand I think, there are thousands of good restaurants in this country, Pattaya has some very good places to choose from and not all of the are expensive. if one gives bad food and bad service, there is no need to return.

I agree there are lots of good places. But like I said I really have enjoyed that place in particular, so I'll give them at least one more chance.

Back to the bigger issue. Do people agree than in general expats here are less demanding/less complaining of restaurants than they would be in the west?

Edited November 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[onnut]

Back to the bigger issue. Do people agree than in general expats here are less demanding/less complaining of restaurants than they would be in the west?

if I go to a western restaurant in Thailand with a western owner then I do the same as in the west. if its a Thai joint, I eat and pay and leave, if I cant eat it I just push it to one side and pay and leave. and not go back.

The reason why I treat both different is Because a westerner knows he cannot sell something if its not good, a Thai does not think the same way, and thinks we are ripping them off. plus Thai restaurants are normally cheaper as well so its not much of a loss.

[Jingthing]

Many of the western owners have gone local in culture, and certainly usually the staff hasn't been trained to deal with complaints with tact.

[onnut]

Many of the western owners have gone local in culture, and certainly usually the staff hasn't been trained to deal with complaints with tact.

Then dont support there businesses, if they cant do it properly then they shouldnt be open.

I get customers complaining sometimes, its the way you handle them that makes them come back. too many cowboys out there.

[Jingthing]

You are right. Not returning is always a good option and one I often use. I will take the middle path and wait a long time before returning. If that had been my first experience with the place and I didn't know they can and usually are much better, it would be different.

[onnut]

You are right. Not returning is always a good option and one I often use. I will take the middle path and wait a long time before returning. If that had been my first experience with the place and I didn't know they can and usually are much better, it would be different.

Not a good excuse but it may have been the regular chefs day off. good on you for giving them a chance.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

They threw your paella into the nuker. I wouldn't expect anything more from Thai cooks. If I owned a restaurant in Thailand, I would never have a microwave. It's just an easy shortcut for Thai cooks. Western managers like them, because dishes can be precooked, and then refrigerated. That means the Thai cooking staff can just warm up the food and the quality remains fairly consistent.

I think what you have to do in this situation is explain that it is undercooked and ask that a different dish be substituted in its place (preferably, something that is idiot-proof). If the wait staff refuses, talk to the manager. If the manager refuses, explain that you're not going to pay for the meal and won't return to the restaurant. Kitchen mistakes happen. It's unavoidable. It's up to the management to put things right.

[Ulysses G.]

Unless I go to the place often, I would not bother to have them "fix" the food as it is almost always overcooked or worse when they do so and that applies pretty much everywhere, but even more so in Thailand.

If I was a regular customer, I would complain and expect them to replace the whole dish.

[Jingthing]

I agree, chances are high based on the evidence the dish was nuked. It even explains why the metal pan was gone. No metal in microwaves! I am known at that place but haven't been quite enough of a regular to get any kind of special treatment. In this case, special translated as being treated fairly.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Jingthing

[NanaFoods]

Unless I go to the place often, I would not bother to have them "fix" the food as it is almost always overcooked or worse when they do so and that applies pretty much everywhere, but even more so in Thailand.

If I was a regular customer, I would complain and expect them to replace the whole dish.

I had the same experience on both counts.

With the addition of being charged for a second dish, even though they took back the first.

[RabC]

Back to the bigger issue. Do people agree than in general expats here are less demanding/less complaining of restaurants than they would be in the west?

if I go to a western restaurant in Thailand with a western owner then I do the same as in the west. if its a Thai joint, I eat and pay and leave, if I cant eat it I just push it to one side and pay and leave. and not go back.

The reason why I treat both different is Because a westerner knows he cannot sell something if its not good, a Thai does not think the same way, and thinks we are ripping them off. plus Thai restaurants are normally cheaper as well so its not much of a loss.

I fully agree if they market themselves as a western (up market) restaurant then I expect western standards and treat them accordingly. A bad meal at Nung Nual in Pattaya will either be eaten or pushed to the side of the plate, a bad meal at Royal Cliff Grill room will go back and I would expect a replacement and apologies, you should get what you pay for.

Edited November 17, 2010 by RabC

[Jingthing]

Well not all western food in Thailand is expensive, especially in Pattaya, which is rather a haven for decent reasonably priced European food. The paella in question was 400 baht. Enough to expect it to be decent, I think.

I may be having a bad streak as I had some moules frites the other night at another place, and boy was it bad in every way! The mussels were cooked to death (at least all the shells were opened) and the broth was reduced down to almost nothing. Possibly the worst moules frites I have ever had, yet, the dish was still technically edible. The fries were OK but were over salted to an extreme. To my palate this wasn't a subjective call, it tasted like they spilled the salt bottle over them. I didn't even consider sending the mussels back (it was part of a 250 three course set and I also hated both the appetizer and dessert). So I ate the shellfish and stupidly ate the fries as well, which made me feel ill due to the salt overdose. Of course the mussels couldn't have been fixed after overcooking, but knowing the place I don't think they would done them over. Later I felt that I at least should have asked for new fries with no salt, thank you very much, I can salt myself at the table. I hope I remember not to go back to that place! It was a place I used to go to long ago but then stopped probably because of bad food, but I guess I forget why. Oh well.

Edited November 20, 2010 by Jingthing

[delboygoeslarge]

you were right to send it back. the problem lies in how they then rectify the dish following your complaint.... this depends on the level of restaurant you are dining at... a high class place they will correct if they can or they will probably start a new one ( it should be like this).. in a medium or low class restaurant i would not expect miracles in the replacement dish and tend not to complain either in thailand or the west.

unfortunately with your situation upon receiving the second one if it was sub standard again you should not have eaten this one either... by eating it you confirm it is of acceptable quality and are obliged to pay to complete the "transaction"

upon receiving the second one i would have spoken to the wait staff and ordered something else... and told them to remove this one because it was still not cooked to your liking. if i had friends eating already i would have ordered something quick to make.. i would have left it up to the manager so decide if i pay. ( in thailand i would expect no discount for this ) and their service at the till would decide if i returned.

you definitely need to approach this situation jai yen yen in either country and you will get a better result.

.... it is hard to walk out from a place in a group if everyone else is enjoying their meal.

[tartempion]

In Thailand AND the West I would have done the following had I ordered and recieved the same you did.

first time I would of sent it back but not got angry. second time I would have tasted it and if it was as you discribed I would have stood up, and called the staff over and asked for a manager then told the manager I will pay for the drink but not the food and given them the money and walked out!

I second that.

Now I would never order paella in a French restaurant.

Incidentally, I was in Spain a few weeks ago and NEVER had a decent meal there, all their meals are pre-cooked.

[Jingthing]

In Thailand AND the West I would have done the following had I ordered and recieved the same you did.

first time I would of sent it back but not got angry. second time I would have tasted it and if it was as you discribed I would have stood up, and called the staff over and asked for a manager then told the manager I will pay for the drink but not the food and given them the money and walked out!

I second that.

Now I would never order paella in a French restaurant.

Incidentally, I was in Spain a few weeks ago and NEVER had a decent meal there, all their meals are pre-cooked.

This is Thailand. There aren't many Spanish restaurants. I have also been to Spain multiple times and have had both good and bad paellas there. The place I had the complaint with had indeed served me good paella in the past, not the best I have ever had, but better than the bad ones in Spain. So I wouldn't get too dogmatic about these kinds of labels, especially in Thailand.