Crackdown On Illegal Abortions In Thailand

[DP25]

The PERCENTAGE of abortions is drastically higher than the US per head of the population, of course the population of the USA is FIVE times higher than Thailand. The population of thailand has grown by 400% since 1923. Why would it start shrinking now?

Absolute rubbish (to your previous post as well), both the percent and and total number of abortions are in Thailand are far lower than in the US. Why would the population start shrinking now? Because the fertility rate in 2005, according the CIA Factbook, was 1.65 children per woman. The US is 2.05 children per woman. Thailand is far lower than the US in these regards. 2.1 is the minimum fertility rate needed to mantain a stable population size without immigration, at 1.65 Thailand's population is going to start shrinking in another decade or so.

As for your comment about the rich not going to back alley abortion clinics, they go to expensive illegal private clinics in Bangkok costing hundreds of dollars per procedure, the poor go to the cheap, legal government clinics. I doubt you've been in either.

Edited November 18, 2010 by DP25

[moetownblues]

I understand that abortion is only legal in Thailand for medical reasons and rape. What becomes of the bargirls who have encounters with farangs who wip it in and out thank you maam and then nick off back home leaving her with a bun in the oven. Most of these girls come from poverty and the sex industry is thier only means of support. If they fall pregnant thier livelyhood is gone. What do they do? They go to some little backyard mum and pop abortion place with poor hygiene. If they have the child what becomes of them are they recycled back into the sex industry. I think abortion should be legal in thailand but only after the lady has recieved psych accessment.

[GooEng]

"Absolute rubbish, Thailand has a problem with abortions because it is a center for prostitution. These ladies cannot continue to work with young children to take care of. their families often take the hildren to look after themselves. Those who've been in Thailand for any length of time KNOW this. The rich would not go to back street abortionists they would be giving LARGE backhanders to authorised centers."

hmmmmmm, i think an alternative view could be taken of the above stated "facts".

it's generally not prostitutes who get pregnant and send their kids up country for the family to care for, it's up country girls who get pregnant and leave their kids with their families and travel to bkk and the tourist centres to work in the sex trade. once in the sex trade most of the girls have experienced a pregnancy are aware that another baby means stopping work and another mouth to feed and will either insist on condoms or failing that, use a pharmaceutical contraceptive or possibly seek a termination.

so i think it could i think be quite convincingly be argued that the sex trade in thailand is buoyed by a steady flow of women with little option but a life in prostitution because they have fallen pregnant due to poor sex education and the unwillingness of thai men to use condoms and then support their accidental children. their families invariably take the view that is it their fault and they are stigmatised as "used goods" and good for little else other than selling themselves to support the baby. meanwhile the father bug*ers off without anyone saying anything (other than perhaps congratulating him if it's a boy child) and does nothing.

better sex education for thai women and men, free access to contraception and also access to clean cheap and safe terminations seems a sensible option.

of course it would also me great to see the government start some sort of move toward creating what is called the child protection agency in the uk which ensures that men cannot simply walk away from their financial responsibilities as father would be good to see, but i think that is a long way off .......

Edited November 18, 2010 by joe ekkamai

[reason1]

http://www.pda.or.th/eng/fp.asp

Seems to be trying.

Probably The Lone Ranger out there

[BigBikeBKK]

Pardon my ignorance and apologies if I missed it earlier in the thread, but what is the law in Thailand regarding abortion? Completely legal, legal with restrictions or illegal?

Abortion is strictly illegal except in cases of rape, incest and life of mother is in danger. Doctors in general do not lightly agree with the latter and most abortions are carried out in specialist "clinics" that are kind of well known but well known.

Thank you for the info- so, like so many other things in Thailand, it's ILLEGAL but widely practiced and readily available... TiT... :jap:

[Gers1873]

Whether it's wrong to have an abortion or not, making it illegal is the worst possible policy imaginable. And it won't prevent or reduce reckless/unprotected sexual behavior one iota!

Well done to Dr Mechai for his efforts. Education and Family Planning is the way to go, along with sensitivity to honest mistakes and even reckless behavior. Remember: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone..."?

Of course education is the answer but that must start in the schools and be followed up in the homes. Thai men must also be taught about responsibility. Too often they involve in teenage relationships where the girl gets pregnant and is often rejected by her family. TThe Thai male then does a runner leaving the young lady helpless. Sad but it happens alltoo often. Her only recourse is the abortion clinic (backstreet or otherwise).

Educate schoolchildren - it has worked well in Holland for years. If you reduce the number of unplaned pregnancies then by default you reduce the abortion count.

You know ot makes sense!!

[rgs2001uk]

I understand that abortion is only legal in Thailand for medical reasons and rape. What becomes of the bargirls who have encounters with farangs who wip it in and out thank you maam and then nick off back home leaving her with a bun in the oven. Most of these girls come from poverty and the sex industry is thier only means of support. If they fall pregnant thier livelyhood is gone. What do they do? They go to some little backyard mum and pop abortion place with poor hygiene. If they have the child what becomes of them are they recycled back into the sex industry. I think abortion should be legal in thailand but only after the lady has recieved psych accessment.

Its called an occupational hazard.

Would you expect a competant tradesman to go on to a building site without a hard hat and safety boots?

For many of these girls abortion is just another form of contraception.

Dont forget the rubbish these girls get hammered into them by mamasans and their peers in the profession.

Get pregnant and the farang buffalo will take care of you.

And yes I have been in the position of maxman1, the girls mentor had no concern for the girl what so ever, her only concern was how much she could profit herself.

[Deeral]

This knee-jerk reaction is really quite appalling.It cannot be claimed that any thought has gone into this at all and the social and personal ramifications -= especially on young women - will be dire.

In the decade I've lived in this country, this has got to rank as one of the most asinine pieces of govt sponsored action I have encountered.

How the PM with the education he has, can allow this kind of policy is beyond me.

[Deeral]

As for some of the opinions posted here, they are little more than the views of thugs

[oevna]

Until both parents bear legal and financial responsibility for supporting children, this problem will continue to exist.

[GooEng]

As for some of the opinions posted here, they are little more than the views of thugs

which ones?

[bob6023]

Ho hum another crackdown, They cannot possibly follow up on all the crackdowns.

[sawadeeken]

Let's hope that these little 'Thai teenagers' can find another way to get all those little 'motor-cy taxi drivers' out of their swelling stomaches!!!

[oz457]

Political and religious leaders are taking a huge responsibility regarding population control.

Abortion should be legalized and should be available to everybody until a specified time limit. If only just to keep population growth under control.

Just take the global picture (worldwide). The population has been growing from 2 billion in the 1920's to 7.5 billion today.

If you just take things objectively, things started to go wrong in the 1960 when the world population exceeded 3 billion.

In my humble opinion, everything should be undertaken to decrease the world population ASAP to a maximum of 2.5 billion.

Why?

The human species is the worst race on this planet. They destroy everything in favor of their own profit.

But you cannot change the mathematical truth of nature. We are now on the verge of a total population crash.

I will explain as briefly as possible, but if you are interested in this matter, find more information on the links that I post a little lower:

Population growth has been possible thanks to our fossil fuel exploitation. Food production has been increased thanks to technological (fossil fuel consuming) progress and processes. Strictly spoken, wit the current population, we use 1.5 x our earth. Where does this 0.5 come from? Well, it is simple, from everything we find below the ground: fossil fuels and all kinds of raw materials. But unfortunately, these fossil fuels and raw materials are at the edge of being exhausted, and that's when mother earth and mathematical truth will kick in.

If you believe this story is far from your bed, I'm afraid to tell you, that all people younger than 35 will live in a world that will be hit by a world population crash.

So stopping babies of being born has to be supported by political and religious leaders. If they don't, they are all responsible for destroying a planet and creating misery.

More information: follow the links

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/Index.html - aim at this one

etc

[tigermonkey]

Arguments wage over is teenage promiscuous behaviour innate or not. Does the availability of contraception increase such behaviour. My personal observations are that it is innate and that contraception does not increase the incidence of such behaviour. even the risks of HIV have not appreciably affected teenage sexual behaviour. Pregnancy is often the result of a first time intercourse, unprepared and unanticipated, or reliance on "safe times" or withdrawal methods.

The best idea in my opinion is the contraceptive implant here is a typical type; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norplant

I am sure the national cost of this would be less than the cost of abortions and the complications that can result from them.

For more than two decades, these were provided free in China after a woman had her first child -- and they were compulsory ! They are now causing further medical problems ( cancer and others) since most of them are still installed, decades after their recommended removal date..

[dighambara]

With numbers of abortions so high its time to decriminalize abortion and get serious about sex education in schools.

Where is Dr Mechai Viravaidya when you need him.

I dare say Mechai would take the opposite step - provide free contraceptoives, and open more clinics to help the poor.

[brahmburgers]

Pardon my ignorance and apologies if I missed it earlier in the thread, but what is the law in Thailand regarding abortion? Completely legal, legal with restrictions or illegal?

Similar to prostitution and gambling dens, it's illegal, but is relatively easy to arrange.

Thailand could take a big step forward by compelling deadbeat dads to contribute to the raising of their brood. As far as I know, there are no laws to that effect, and that's why there is such high % of single moms and grandparents raising grandkids. It contributes to abortions also, as a young pregnant woman feels isolated and powerless (particularly if she's too embarrassed to tell her family), and she knows the guy who knocked her up isn't worth a tarnished satang - as regards helping to raise his child.

[reason1]

Surely no one likes abortion; we seem a bit short on compassion for the lady here who appears to be getting screwed more than once. Is “The Morning After Pill” a solution?

“Depending on the drug, they are licensed for use for up to 107 to 120 hours after unprotected sexual intercourse or contraceptive failure.”

[Deeral]

With numbers of abortions so high its time to decriminalize abortion and get serious about sex education in schools.

Where is Dr Mechai Viravaidya when you need him.

I dare say Mechai would take the opposite step - provide free contraceptoives, and open more clinics to help the poor.

THe good doctor's organisation is still doing good work.those bandying about prices for abortion clearly don't know that.

abortion is legal in Thailand but with restrictions - health and welfare of the mother and child.

i have seen some rubbish posted on TV in my time, but some of the comments on this thread display and ignorance and callousness that exceeds almost anything I've encountered.

What is most disturbing is that thew majority of people posting here are expats from "developed" western countries, but they seem to have a total ignorance of the situation, and hold views that would shame the most primitive and backward of societies, yet still they persist in posting tripe on this thread. It really gives one a horrific insight to the nature of some expats in Thailand.

[VBF]

There is no easy answer. My mother was a devout Catholic. She was not in favor of abortion but refused to do any thing to stop it. She said she would not be willing to take in one of the unwanted babies so she would keep her mouth shut.

I myself fully endorse that policy. Actually as a reborn again Pagan it allows me to agree to all opinions. Perhaps legalizing it in Government sponsored clinics with counseling available to all would be the answer. I mean no waiting because there are not enough clinics.

May I say that I think your Mother's view is one of the most honest, practical and humane views I've ever read on the subject. She was clearly a most caring individual and able to interpret the reason behind such religious edicts and apply them with plain common sense. Out of choice, I have no religion as such, but if the various religious rules were always applied in this manner, there would be a lot less bitterness and hypocrisy around.

[Deeral]

There is no easy answer. My mother was a devout Catholic. She was not in favor of abortion but refused to do any thing to stop it. She said she would not be willing to take in one of the unwanted babies so she would keep her mouth shut.

I myself fully endorse that policy. Actually as a reborn again Pagan it allows me to agree to all opinions. Perhaps legalizing it in Government sponsored clinics with counseling available to all would be the answer. I mean no waiting because there are not enough clinics.

May I say that I think your Mother's view is one of the most honest, practical and humane views I've ever read on the subject. She was clearly a most caring individual and able to interpret the reason behind such religious edicts and apply them with plain common sense. Out of choice, I have no religion as such, but if the various religious rules were always applied in this manner, there would be a lot less bitterness and hypocrisy around.

Termination of Pregnancy/Abortion in Thailand

In Thailand abortion is illegal apart from in the following cases:

1. To save the mother's life
2. To preserve the mother's physical or mental health
3. If the pregnancy is a result of rape or incest

Only a fully qualified medical practitioner is allowed to carry out the termination and it is not available at all hospitals. A legal procedure has to be followed in order to get the necessary paperwork to submit to the doctor.

Family Planning

The Planned Parenthood Association of Thailand has a number of clinics throughout the country and can give advice on family planning issues.

• Planned Parenthood Association of Thailand (PPAT)
  
  

In the 1960s the Thai government introduced a successful family planning policy that continues to this day. The Population and Community Development Association (PDA) is a Non-Governmental Organisation that offers a wide variety of services including family planning to help the poor in rural areas in Thailand.

Link to PDA

[Deeral]

From Wikipedia......

Inducing or otherwise causing an abortion is regarded as a serious matter in the monastic rules followed by both Theravada and Vajrayana monks; monks can be expelled for assisting a woman in procuring an abortion.^[2] Traditional sources do not recognize a distinction between early- and late-term abortion, but in Sri Lanka and Thailand the "moral stigma" associated with an abortion grows with the development of the fetus.^[2] While traditional sources do not seem to be aware of the possibility of abortion as relevant to the health of the mother, modern Buddhist teachers from many traditions- and abortion laws in many Buddhist countries- recognize a threat to the life or physical health of the mother as an acceptable justification for abortion as a practical matter, though it may still be seen as a deed with negative moral or karmic consequences.^[2]

<b>Laws and views on abortion vary greatly in Theravada Buddhist nations. Attitudes and laws in Thailand are generally more liberal than in Sri Lanka.^[6] While abortion is still viewed as negative in Burma (Myanmar), it is allegedly also employed with some frequency to prevent out-of-wedlock births.^[6] Regarding attitudes towards abortion in Thailand, Peter Harvey notes:

...abortion is discussed not in the language of rights – to life or choice – but of ‘benefit and harm, with the intent of relieving as much human suffering in all its states, stages and situations as circumstances allow’, with an emphasis on reducing the circumstances leading women to feel that they need to have an abortion.

Above may be a summary of the religious side to abortion in Thailand, however this does not address the political side.

It must be said that the ruling classes in thailand may feel they can use this issue as a tool to suggest a moral authority or high-ground.

Restricting the freedoms of women in this way could also be of benefit to a state that requires a large malleable labour population on the edges of poverty.

It will of course be used by some more reactionary elements as part of a "morality crusade" - the primary point of which will be to advance that particular politician's career and increase is exposure in the media.

Edited November 18, 2010 by Deeral

[meelousee]

No easy answers, no easy solutions. This is a problem that will not go away. The social issues in Thailand that cause some of these abortions, getting kicked out of school, being terminated from employment, being cast out of the family unit, facing ultimate poverty. And it is not isolated to Thailand.

I can only wish something I could say or do something that would make a difference, abortion is a sad heart wrenching event for 90% of the females that do this.

I watch the children in my village play and wish those that did not make it would have a chance to do as much. Poor children are as funny and lovely as the rest.

I will struggle with this issue all the days of my life.

[barrybankruad]

" report in 2008 that 80,000 female students became pregnant, about 700 infants were abandoned per year, and 46.8 per cent of women undergoing abortion were under 25"

I struggle with all the issues here having paid for time with Bar/Play Girls without any responsibility for the results. I have also paid for a termination which fortunately didn't happen and produced a wonderful girl. There is no easy answer and the problems are not going away. Making abortion more difficult, more criminal, or more expensive are not solutions. Education and easy access to contraception seem to me to be the best ways forward. We Guys almost always defer to the Gal to fix the problem. It is not right but that is the reality.

I agree that making abortion more difficult or expensive is not the answer. Education is all very well but we all know the educationsl standards here in the LOS often leave a lot to be desired. Easier access to contraception is probably the answer. Wht not have the 'morning after' pill available 'over the counter' the same as in the UK t

[Bagwan]

>>>  Enabling adoptions, both by locals and by foreigners (all screened).

Wouldn't this turn Thailand into the hub for abortions? Wouldn't it set off a war between those concerned for morality and the good name of Thailand (5555) and those who would see it as a means of making money? 

.>>>>>studies show that the plethora of plastics in our environment is leading to lower sperm counts - via leaching of chemicals in to water, soil, air, and food.   Perhaps that's why Thais use prodigious amounts of plastic and burn much of it in trash piles - as a warped sort of way to unwittingly offset the proliferation our overly dominant species.

Even a nanoseconds thought would expose this proposal as totally ridiculous.  

[Deeral]

I notice with dismay that PM Abhisit says here is no need to change the law and that the police have embarked on a knee-jerk clampdown.

I is so saddening to see that this is the "best" sort of response one can expect from Thai authorities - they either haven't got a clue or just don't care.

Someone has been acting disgracefully under the roof of a Temple and has taken advantage of a sordid trade that is the result of inadequate Thai legislation. They have probably been making a quick buck out it too.....but none of the governments reactions to this will improve the situation regards illegal abortions or the welfare of women in Thailand