Bank Of America To Bangkok Bank Ltd

[susah_sih]

Citibank has offered a transfer service which they call Citibank Global Transfers for quite sometime. I used it 5 years ago when I was in Hong Kong, moving my money from my Citibank account in New York to Citibank in Hong Kong, all done online. The money shows up in the account the next day. For transfers outside Citibank system, you need to do wire transfer, which can be done online.

From: http://www.myciti.com

******************************************************************

What do Citibank® Global Transfers cost?

Outgoing transfers within the U.S. - $5.00

Outgoing transfers to Mexico - $5.00

Outgoing transfers to other countries - $10.00

There is no charge for Citibank® Global Transfers coming into your account.

******************************************************************

The maximum you can send from a single account depends on the type of account you have:

Citibank Private Bank:

- $5,000 per day from a single account

- $25,000 per week from a single account

CitiGold®:

- $1,250 per day from a single account

- $4,000 per week from a single account

All Other Accounts:

- $1,000 per day from a single account

- $2,500 per week from a single account

*******************************************************************

Citigroup Private Bank Accounts

Outgoing wire transfers via Citibank® Online are free

All incoming wire transfers are free.

Citigold® Accounts

$12.50 for each outgoing domestic wire transfer

$20.00 for each outgoing international wire transfer

Incoming wires to your CitiGold® accounts are free.

All Other Accounts via Citibank® Online

$18.75 for each outgoing domestic wire transfer

$30.00 for each outgoing international wire transfer

$10.00 for each incoming wire.

******************************************************************

What's good about Citibank:

1. Citibank ATM Card can be used at any Citibank ATM card all over the world without any charges.

2. Toll free customer service from all over the world (only if you know the toll free number)

What's bad about Citibank:

1. branch staff are not throughly educated; they may be totally clueless about this service.

2. Interest on deposits is very menial.

So I never put money with Citibank.

And instead:

I put money with ING Direct

http://home.ingdirect.com/

ING is a pioneer in establishing what BofA is doing and has been offering

such service since 2000.

Basically if you open account with ING, the account in ING can DEPOSIT and WITHDRAW money from your other bank account at NO COST. ING doesnt require minimum balance (leave $1 to keep the account open), no monthly charges, and relatively higher interest 3.30% APY now for USD account.

So I use two accounts one at Citibank NY with (minimum $1,500, to avoid charges) and the rest of money at ING Direct.

If I need money, I'll transfer money from ING to Citibank NY and if I have excess money in Citibank NY account, I use ING account to debit my Citibank NY account.

Edited September 4, 2005 by susah_sih

[lopburi3]

From what you have posted the Citibank seems to be crazy. Is that saying you are limited to transfers or $1,000 per day at $10 each for a normal account? And is this only to a Citibank branch?

I spend $45 to transfer $9,000 in one go to any bank in Thailand and that is on the high side. Why would I even consider paying $90 and having to make 9 transactions?

It does not sound like a good deal to me. But perhaps I am missing something?

[susah_sih]

From what you have posted the Citibank seems to be crazy.  Is that saying you are limited to transfers or $1,000 per day at $10 each for a normal account?  And is this only to a Citibank branch? 

I spend $45 to transfer $9,000 in one go to any bank in Thailand and that is on the high side.  Why would I even consider paying $90 and having to make 9 transactions?

It does not sound like a good deal to me.  But perhaps I am missing something?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you can send $9000 with wire transfers which costs $30

I am curious how BofA's ACH PUSH can go all the way to Bangkok Bank in Thailand. Perhaps it's better not to let BofA knows about this, coz otherwise

it's cutting their wire transfer business.

If this is the case then ING Direct which is giving ACH PUSH for free, would

be the solution to totally free funds transfer to Thailand.

[lomatopo]

I am curious how BofA's ACH PUSH can go all the way to Bangkok Bank in Thailand.

It works just like a wire transfer request, BofA-->(ABA/USD-USD)-->Bangkok Bank PCL/NYC-->(SWIFT/USD-THB)-->Bangkok Bank Thailand.

Perhaps it's better not to let BofA knows about this, coz otherwise it's cutting their wire transfer business.

I'm guessing this (on-line transfer process) saves BofA money. For a standard wire transfer initiated in a branch office of BofA in the U.S.A., I pay $15 and take ~ 15 minutes of a reps. time, multi-copy forms are used, CSR has to phone someone else to figure something out, forms are filed, they mail a confirmation, etc. etc. I am pretty sure this costs BofA more than $15 in overhead?

Edited September 4, 2005 by lomatopo

[fxm88]

A few years ago I managed to transfer some money to my Bangkok Bank account in Thailand from a bank in the US using ACH to Bangkok Bank's New York branch. I believe this is similar to what you are describing.

However, in May of 2003 it started failing. I think the money made it into Thailand but the branch here was "unable to apply funds due to missing beneficiary's name". The Thailand branch asked the NY branch for that info but were told that they couldn't get it with ACH. Anyway, the money got sent back to the original account and I started doing my transfers with SWIFT.

And I just recently tried to do another SWIFT transfer and am being told that they now require a signed form faxed or posted to them each and every time I want to do a transfer. When asked why they waved their hands and made some vague reference to legislation inspired by 'recent world events" (presumably not the Hurricane ;-). I did some searching around there might be some new FinCEN reporting requirements that they're trying to comply with. (They've always had to report transfers above US$10K, an more recently anything they thought was suspicious, e.g. a US$9900 transfer, but now maybe they're just reporting everything. It's hard to find good info -- I keep finding lots of pages from the "tin foil hat" crowd. I did run across FedACH which apparently opens up ACH transfers to Mexico and some European countries, ironically signed in September of 2001.)

So I'll be surprised if what you're doing works. Or, if it does work this time, continues to work. But please keep us updated. Does Bank of America speak about International transfers specifically? Do you have a link or a name for their service?

Here's a similar thread from earlier this year: Bangkok Bank Foreign Exchange Fees Via Ny, Transfer $$ by ACH via BB ABA.

Edited September 7, 2005 by fxm88

[fxm88]

[deleted]

Edited September 7, 2005 by fxm88

[susah_sih]

I am surprised that this whole thing works.

There may be some kind and considerate folks at Bangkok Bank New York

who relayed the message to Bangkok Bank Thailand. Or Bangkok Bank in Bangkok looked at its Nostro account at Bangkok Bank New York and noticed the ACH. Imagine millions of transactions a day, very easy for a person to miss such transactions. And in fact, such method of transactions are discouraged at international banks like Citibank due to so many risks and also against the law (banks are required to return the money as soon as possible, if they dont have enough information or missing information and they will be charged interests on the float days). Banks therefore requires authenticated SWIFT or confirmed TELEX for it to apply the deposit.

ACH = the method of transferring money

ACH works between accounts in the United States.

Inexpensive, costs something like 0.0001 cents per transaction, forgot exactly.

CHIPS = the method of transferring money among NY participating banks.

Fedwire=the method of transferring money

Expensive, usually for large amount and use for end of day operations among banks to settle who owes what.

SWIFT = the delivery of message.

SWIFT itself does not deliver money. SWIFT is none other than the newer version of TESTED TELEX. In the old days, two banks usually confirmed each other that TELEX among the two banks had been confirmed its authenticity. Also message only, no money with TELEX.

Say John Doe has an account with BofA San Francisco and John Doe also maintains account with Bangkok Bank New York. John Doe can do ACH "Pull" & "Push" between two of his accounts.

However if John Doe has account with BofA SF and John Doe also maintains account with Bangkok Bank in Bangkok, then when the money is sent to Bangkok Bank New York, how will Bangkok Bank New York know that the money is actually for John Doe who maintains account with Bangkok Bank in Bangkok. For all it cares, what is seen by Bangkok Bank New York is only one collective nostro USD account of Bangkok Bank Bangkok. John Doe does not maintain account with Bangkok Bank in New York.

Therefore, for international transfer outside the US, BofA SF needs to make a SWIFT message to Bangkok Bank Bangkok telling it that its account at Bangkok Bank New York has been credited with xx amount for further credit to the account of John Doe, a/c nbr xx at Bangkok Bank in Bangkok and delivers the funds either via ACH or CHIPS (clearing house in NY). And more often than not, BofA will use the nostro accounts of Bangkok Bank at money centered banks such JPMorgan Chase, BankofNY, Citibank NY or even BofA NY instead of Bangkok Bank New York.

Edited September 8, 2005 by susah_sih

[lopburi3]

And in fact, such method of transactions are discouraged at international banks like Citibank due to so many risks and also against the law (banks are required to return the money as soon as possible

Well it is not against any law that I am aware of and you can find it outlined by the US Embassy, Bangkok to obtain payment of US retirement benefits directly into a Thai bank account. Many people use this service to receive social security payment directly from the US Government.

I would like to Direct Deposit to a Thailand-Based Bank. What do I need to do?

Only the Bangkok Bank of Thailand provides Direct Deposit service for persons who receive benefits from the following agencies: Social Security Administration (SSA), Veterans Administration (VA), and Civil Service.

1. Open “Direct Deposit” Account at the Bangkok Bank branch nearest your home.

The Bank will assist you in opening a “Direct Deposit Account. We suggest you to clearly tell staff that this account is for receiving pension from SSA, or VA.

2. Sign up Form 1199: Please bring 3 completed forms sf1199 to a Head Quarter of Bangkok Bank. Bank will forward your completed Direct Deposit form (Form 1199 A) to SSA in US. You will be able to access your benefits from the Bangkok Bank branch near your house after your request has been completely processed. This often takes a few months. For more information please contact:

Bangkok Bank Public Company Limited

Foreign Exchange Service Section

Retail Payment Services Department

333 Silom Road, Bkk. 10500

Tel: (02) 230-1322-3

Edited September 8, 2005 by lopburi3

[susah_sih]

And in fact, such method of transactions are discouraged at international banks like Citibank due to so many risks and also against the law (banks are required to return the money as soon as possible

Well it is not against any law that I am aware of and you can find it outlined by the US Embassy, Bangkok to obtain payment of US retirement benefits directly into a Thai bank account. Many people use this service to receive social security payment directly from the US Government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you are missing what I wrote. It is the banking law that governs funds transfers in the US.

[daxbr]

Hi Richard, Got your money?

[richard10365]

Hi Richard,   Got your money?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, sorry I havent updated lately. There was a problem with the transfer. This is what happened.

1. 1 Sep sent $25

2. 6 Sep BOA withdrew $28 ($25 I sent and $3 cost of transfer)

3. 9 Sep Transfer to Bangkok Bank (BB) complete

a. Bangkok Bank (BB) received $22 (missing $3)

b. 9 Sep BB converts $22 ----> 901.12 baht ($1 = 40.96 baht)

c. BB charges me 200 baht for the transfer (the max they charge is 500 baht)

d. Total received is 701.12

4. Total cost of transfer is 322.88 baht (445.76 baht if you include the missing $3)

5. Contacted BOA and they are currently tracing the transfer to find out where the missing $3 is.

I got most of my money. I am guessing the BB office in NY charged an additional $3 to send it over.

When BOA emails me about the transfer, I will update this post with their reply.

Edited September 15, 2005 by richard10365

[lopburi3]

Hi Richard,   Got your money?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, sorry I havent updated lately. There was a problem with the transfer. This is what happened.

1. 1 Sep sent $25

2. 6 Sep BOA withdrew $28 ($25 I sent and $3 cost of transfer)

3. 9 Sep Transfer to Bangkok Bank (BB) complete

a. Bangkok Bank (BB) received $22 (missing $3)

b. 9 Sep BB converts $22 ----> 901.12 baht ($1 = 40.96 baht)

c. BB charges me 200 baht for the transfer (the max they charge is 500 baht)

d. Total received is 701.12

4. Total cost of transfer is 322.88 baht (445.76 baht if you include the missing $3)

5. Contacted BOA and they are currently tracing the transfer to find out where the missing $3 is.

I got most of my money. I am guessing the BB office in NY charged an additional $3 to send it over.

When BOA emails me about the transfer, I will update this post with their reply.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Bangkok Bank NY does indeed take out money prior to sending on to Bangkok. In my case it was $5 for transfers of $9,000 or so several years ago but have not requested details since then (but from amount I receive can not be much higher). For large transfers this is pocket change but for small transfers (if $3) it could be expensive. In my case this was via SWIFT but it is probably similar using ACH.

Edited September 15, 2005 by lopburi3

[richard10365]

Thanks for the info Lopburi. That would explain the missing $3. Now, if I can only get the transfer to happen a little faster, it would make it worth to send my paycheck over here. Right now, it looks like it takes 9 days from the time I start the transfer to when it auctually happens.

[lopburi3]

Thanks for the info Lopburi. That would explain the missing $3. Now, if I can only get the transfer to happen a little faster, it would make it worth to send my paycheck over here. Right now, it looks like it takes 9 days from the time I start the transfer to when it auctually happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As said - if you have any chance for ADSL grab it and never look back to dialup.

I imagine that the ISPs would love to phase out their cheaper dial-up packages and push subscribers into more lucrative products like ADSL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is really long. The SWIFT transfer is done in a matter of hours.

But I would question why send paycheck here in the first place. I find it much better to maintain a US bank account and have it deposited there and then, when the need arises, transfer $9,000 or so. That way you maintain a US account/card and can pay such bills as may come up (gifts for family - internet purchase etc.).

[richard10365]

Thanks for the info Lopburi. That would explain the missing $3. Now, if I can only get the transfer to happen a little faster, it would make it worth to send my paycheck over here. Right now, it looks like it takes 9 days from the time I start the transfer to when it auctually happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As said - if you have any chance for ADSL grab it and never look back to dialup.

I imagine that the ISPs would love to phase out their cheaper dial-up packages and push subscribers into more lucrative products like ADSL.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That is really long. The SWIFT transfer is done in a matter of hours.

But I would question why send paycheck here in the first place. I find it much better to maintain a US bank account and have it deposited there and then, when the need arises, transfer $9,000 or so. That way you maintain a US account/card and can pay such bills as may come up (gifts for family - internet purchase etc.).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would like to avoid the ATM and conversion fees charged by BOA. Right now I am using most of my money every month setting myself up here in Thailand. I am slowly aquiring everything I need to live here comfortably. The 1000 or so baht in fees buys food for a week.

Defense Finance and Accounting Service (DFAS) is not doing International Direct Deposit (IDD) for military retiries here in Thailand so thats not an option for me yet. I am not sure if I would use if they did. I am still invedtigating that. I am not planning on closing my BOA account just yet.

[lopburi3]

If you can get ahead or access other funds in the US the SWIFT transfer once every few months helps limit the fee and poor exchange loss of ATM use. On transfer you take a $30 to $50 hit from most banks but you do get full exchange rate. When you use ATM they hit you for fees on top of a minus one or two percent exchange rate. As always the small spender takes the biggest hit.

[lopburi3]

To avoid the ATM fee blues you might consider one of the Credit Unions as they can be free to minimal in such fees. Recall one was mentioned a month or two ago which I believe was free. I just checked an Austen based one where the fee was 75 cents. There are a huge number open to ex military.

[galt67]

Open an account here: http://www.netbank.com

ZERO ATM fees (including foreign ATMS) for the first six withdrawals.

I've had an account for three years--and use the ATM regulary around Thailand with no problems.

[Valjean]

Has anyone used Bangkok Bank or another bank to send money FROM Thailand TO BofA in the US? Or another bank? Online would be great.

[daxbr]

Hi Richard,   Got your money?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hi, sorry I havent updated lately. There was a problem with the transfer. This is what happened.

1. 1 Sep sent $25

2. 6 Sep BOA withdrew $28 ($25 I sent and $3 cost of transfer)

3. 9 Sep Transfer to Bangkok Bank (BB) complete

a. Bangkok Bank (BB) received $22 (missing $3)

b. 9 Sep BB converts $22 ----> 901.12 baht ($1 = 40.96 baht)

c. BB charges me 200 baht for the transfer (the max they charge is 500 baht)

d. Total received is 701.12

4. Total cost of transfer is 322.88 baht (445.76 baht if you include the missing $3)

5. Contacted BOA and they are currently tracing the transfer to find out where the missing $3 is.

I got most of my money. I am guessing the BB office in NY charged an additional $3 to send it over.

When BOA emails me about the transfer, I will update this post with their reply.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thanks Richard for looking into this. This does not sound like a good way of transfering small amounts but it is much better than wire transfer and if amount is higher than $10k. For small amounts, I have not found a better way than the one described here:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?sh...ank+of+internet

[susah_sih]

Thanks for the info Lopburi. That would explain the missing $3. Now, if I can only get the transfer to happen a little faster, it would make it worth to send my paycheck over here. Right now, it looks like it takes 9 days from the time I start the transfer to when it auctually happens.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I assume this is a US government check with USD amount drawn on a bank in the US. If this is the case, then sending the check all the way to LOS would meant for you to deposit it at Bangkok Bank Thailand and Bangkok Bank Thailand need to courier it all the way to New York and request Bangkok Bank New York to collect it on its behalf. First, Bangkok Bank Thailand would charge you a collection item fee and then Bangkok Bank New York might deduct the amount when they got the money and remitted a message which says it has credited Bangkok Bank Thailand's account with Bangkok Bank New York for the money. The whole process could take longer than 9 days. Unless Bangkok Bank Thailand has a program to advance the money under the check, given that the check is as good as a cashier check/money order having came from the US government (but advancing money is usually more expensive than collection, and the bank may not be willing to do it for fear of counterfeit checks).

I think direct deposit into Bangkok Bank as specified in the program would be better. Didnt know that Bangkok Bank has such a program; with other banks it wont work to do ACH deposit to account in foreign country. The only minus thing with Bangkok Bank direct deposit program is that Bangkok Bank New York needs to charge $3 for its work, but then again, there aint free lunch. Every unit of Bangkok Bank works as a business unit and has to survive on its own and the easiest way to do that is to chip those money that it is transferring. It's so easy.

Yup I hate it myself also when so many banks chip the money. One time I use the service of a small bank in the midwest to wire money all the way to Bank of Asia Thailand. This bank has no clue how to send money so they sent it conveniently to Bank of America in New York and it turned out Bank of Asia does not have account with BOA NY so BOA NY sent it to Citi NY where the Thai bank maintained its accounts. Total charges USD80 (USD20 the small bank in midwest, USD30 from BOA NY (who could careless it's not their customer money anyway), USD30 from CitiNY for remitting SWIFT to the Bank of Asia) and the money arrives in my bank account about 2 weeks. So never trust a small bank in the US doing wiring internationally.

Edited September 19, 2005 by susah_sih

[richard10365]

I just got an email back from Bangkok Bank branch in New York and they said:

Dear Sir:

With reference to your question, you understanding is correct. When funds pass through our New York Branch, we will deduct $3.- for the transfer amount of $100.- or less and $5.- for the transaction over $100.- and remit the balance in U.S. dollar to our Bangkok office who will further credit your account. With regards, Sirivan Chuaypradit

Fees for my $25 transfer are as follows:

Bank of America $3

Bangkok Bank New York $3

Bangkok Bank Thailand 200 baht

The wierd thing is Bank of America sent me an email saying:

Our records show that the $3.00 transfer fee was charged twice in error.

Therefore, we have applied a refund in the amount of $3.00 to your

account. The funds will be credited to your account the next business

day.

So somehow, I made $3 on this transfer. I think what happened is Bank of America cannot account for the missing money so they credited it to my account instead of being federally accountable for missing funds from an ACH transfer.

[susah_sih]

I just got an email back from Bangkok Bank branch in New York and they said:

The wierd thing is Bank of America sent me an email saying:

Our records show that the $3.00 transfer fee was charged twice in error.

Therefore, we have applied a refund in the amount of $3.00 to your

account. The funds will be credited to your account the next business

day.

So somehow, I made $3 on this transfer. I think what happened is Bank of America cannot account for the missing money so they credited it to my account instead of being federally accountable for missing funds from an ACH transfer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think Bank of America just waived the transfer charges given that it's only $3.

It would be too expensive to do tracing and search.

[richard10365]

I guess to sum things, it is safe to say, you can send up to $10,000 from Bank of America to Bangkok Bank here in Thailand, for less than $10. It might take a week or two but it is possible.

[richard10365]

I sent $1000 (40,000 baht) on the 1st when I got paid. I will let you know the progress of the transaction. Since I sent it on a Saturday, it might take a while to reach Bangkok.

I'm trying to satisfy the requirements for the marriage extension. Transfering 40,000 baht a month to a Thai bank account. I called Aranyapreth immagration and told them I just started doing this and they said come see them in November and show the 2 transfers (Oct & Nov) and it shouldn't be a problem.

[Upcountry]

Ditto for me!

I had to top off the account, to the tune of $2500 to ensure a buffer for ATM use, etc.

Actually, I initiated the transfer very early on the 28th, state side time. I just checked my BOA account on-line, and it shows the amount transferred, including the $3 charge, and dated the 29th. Next time I go to the bank, I'll update my BB passbook, expecting it to show the amount transferred minus 500 baht. This amounts to about a 1/2 percent charge.

If I had transferred $10k it would have been 1/8th percent.

Not as quick as using the debit card at a money exchange booth or ATM, and not free. Yet, I hope that the gain in change rate versus using the card makes up for that, as people have said.

Once I get on-line banking going here with BB, it will be very convenient!

[richard10365]

Ditto for me! 

Actually, I initiated the transfer very early on the 28th, state side time. I just checked my BOA account on-line, and it shows the amount transferred, including the $3 charge, and dated the 29th.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yours was transfered in 1 day. Thats much quicker than my first try. I just checked my account it the amount hasn't been withdrawn yet.

I'm thinking about direct deposit to my Bangkok Bank account. Perhaps that will be quicker and cheaper.

[Upcountry]

I initiated the transfer after midnight US time on the 29th, as I mentioned before. It had not posted to my BB passbook by Monday afternoon. It did show up today, though.

I had transferred $2500. The amount of baht that showed up in my account: 102,237.50.

I know this because a called 1333 and checked my balance, but I do not yet know the details of the transaction, nor the exact exchange rate. I'll confirm that later.

But if I add 500 baht to figure the actual total before the fee was applied, I get: THB 102,737.50

According to the website today, buy/sell rates are 40.73/41.33 respectively.

However, dividing $2500 into THB 102,737.50 gives me a rate of 41.10, somewhere in between the above. That must reflect the actual exchange rate applied at the time of conversion.

I'll post more info when I have it, but I thought this might be useful to someone in the meantime.

In my case, I guess they were serious about an extra day being applied since I made the transfer after midnight. We asked a BB teller about it, and she said it could take a week, especially at the end of the month, on top of the fact that a weekend was involved. Oh well.

[lomatopo]

I initiated the transfer after midnight US time on the 29th, as I mentioned before. It had not posted to my BB passbook by Monday afternoon. It did show up today, though.

I had transferred $2500. The amount of baht that showed up in my account: 102,237.50.

I know this because a called 1333 and checked my balance, but I do not yet know the details of the transaction, nor the exact exchange rate. I'll confirm that later.

But if I add 500 baht to figure the actual total before the fee was applied, I get: THB 102,737.50

According to the website today, buy/sell rates are 40.73/41.33 respectively.

However, dividing $2500 into THB 102,737.50 gives me a rate of 41.10, somewhere in between the above. That must reflect the actual exchange rate applied at the time of conversion.

I'll post more info when I have it, but I thought this might be useful to someone in the meantime. 

In my case, I guess they were serious about an extra day being applied since I made the transfer after midnight. We asked a BB teller about it, and she said it could take a week, especially at the end of the month, on top of the fact that a weekend was involved. Oh well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What was the quoted buy/sell rate for? A one-hundred dollar bill? A traveler's check? Other?

For 4 Oct 2005, 2,500 USD should equal 103,008 THB (inter-bank) so I'd say you did quite well.

[richard10365]

My transfer was deducted from my Bank of America (BOA) account on the 3rd of October. Looking at the transfer page, it shows the transfer is still in process. I am thinking it will be complete by Saturday.