EC Rests Its Case In Thai Democrat Dissolution Trial

[webfact]

DEMOCRAT PARTY DISSOLUTION TRIAL

EC rests its case

The Election Commission on Tuesday submitted its closing statement in the Constitution Court, in the Democrat Party dissolution case related to alleged illegal use of the Political Party Development fund.

The EC denied it had filed the complaint under pressure from the red shirts and told the court there were five issues to be considered:

- whether legal proceedings before the EC’s filing of the complaint were legal;

- when the incident happened in 2004 and 2005, which version of the Political Party Act was to be used the 1998 or the 2007 version;

- whether the party spent the money from the fund according to its objectives written in its proposal to the EC;

- whether the party’s financial reports were done correctly and legally;

- whose voting rights should be revoked [in the event of] punishment all the then party executive members or only the people involved in the wrongdoing.

In the first issue, the EC said it had proceeded with the case according to the law. It also denied the Democrats’ allegation that it filed the complaint due to fear of threats by anti-government red-shirt protesters.

Second, the two versions of the Political Party Act include the essence of the laws, which stipulate what political parties must do, must not do and the penalties in case |of violation, and the part indicating the authorities and legal processes.

In considering the Democrats’ behaviour, the 1997 version needs to be referred to, but for the appointment of the investigating committee and legal proceeding, the latest version, the 2007 Political Party Act, must be referred to.

Third, the money trails of the Bt258-million Messiah Business and Creation received from TPI Polene and the more than Bt23 million it reportedly received from the Democrats for the election campaign boards have matching patterns.

The trails found Messiah transferred money to people linked to the party, but it reported payment to the other two companies as its subcontracting companies.

However, the two companies were invalid as, according to the Revenue Department, they no longer operated at that time.

Fourth, the Democrats filed incomplete/false financial reports to the EC. While the party ordered 100,000 advertisement boards, it reported only 50,000 boards to the EC. It did not report the expenses for the boards logistics.

According to witnesses before the court, the party hired Magnet Sign and K-One advertising companies to produce 50,000 boards, but it issued the Bt2-million cheque to Kerdmek company for the boards.

Fifth, regarding the voting right revocation, the EC said the party executive had a collective responsibility to administrate the party and manage its finances according to the laws. Therefore, according to any issue of the laws, the voting rights of whole executive members of the party at that time must be revoked.

-- The Nation 2010-11-19

[asiawatcher]

Seems to me business as normal in politics. Some creative accounting and some one unnamed as the recipient. EC has a case but I doubt it will lead to dissolution in time for the Dems to dissolve the house for the elections thus all a lot to do about nothing. No progress and more time wasting (and theft) of tax payers money.

[SomTumTiger]

They'll be fined, some will be canned - the country's traditional power structure will roll along. Good or bad? Not for me to say.

[bushwacker]

And the beat goes on .....

[animatic]

The inconsistencies in the EC's case are rather glaring.

As well as the reporting above.

[londonthai]

The inconsistencies in the EC's case are rather glaring.

As well as the reporting above.

care to point those inconsistencies in ec case and reporting?

I have failed to spot them

[Siam Simon]

The inconsistencies in the EC's case are rather glaring.

As well as the reporting above.

Can't the Dems find their own spokesperson for TV?

Edited November 19, 2010 by Siam Simon

[whybother]

The inconsistencies in the EC's case are rather glaring.

As well as the reporting above.

Can't the Dems find their own spokesperson for TV?

Do you mean to counter all the PTP/red shirts spokespeople?

[Buchholz]

The EC denied it had filed the complaint under pressure from the red shirts

Unanswered from from the last Democrat dissolution thread:

Why were the charges filed in the first place when three different prior EC investigations found against party dissolution? What role did Red Shirt Terrorist Fugitive Arisaman breaking into the EC Headquarters and demanding party dissolution play with the decision of the EC to reverse itself? How is it then possible for the EC members to read 10,000 pages of evidence and come to a different conclusion, from the previous three, in less than an hour?

[random]

I see more people in here trying to blame the whsitleblowers

The fact is the dems broke election law irrespective of how the charges were filed, and I would say this is more serious than a cooking show.

[Siam Simon]

The inconsistencies in the EC's case are rather glaring.

As well as the reporting above.

Can't the Dems find their own spokesperson for TV?

Do you mean to counter all the PTP/red shirts spokespeople?

No, I was referring specifically to Animatic, as opposed to posters who joined TV a few months ago and ran up a thousand (yes, that's 1000, folks) posts in their first month of membership .

[whybother]

No, I was referring specifically to Animatic, as opposed to posters who joined TV a few months ago and ran up a thousand (yes, that's 1000, folks) posts in their first month of membership .

What?? There are PTP/Red shirt spokespeople that ran up a thousand posts in their first month of membership?

No wonder I posted so much when I joined - having to point out inaccuracies in these peoples posts.

[Siam Simon]

No, I was referring specifically to Animatic, as opposed to posters who joined TV a few months ago and ran up a thousand (yes, that's 1000, folks) posts in their first month of membership .

What?? There are PTP/Red shirt spokespeople that ran up a thousand posts in their first month of membership?

No wonder I posted so much when I joined - having to point out inaccuracies in these peoples posts.

There are? care to post links to such posters?

Btw, do you have any other interests in the World?

You don't even seem to have any other interests on Thai Visa .

[whybother]

No, I was referring specifically to Animatic, as opposed to posters who joined TV a few months ago and ran up a thousand (yes, that's 1000, folks) posts in their first month of membership .

What?? There are PTP/Red shirt spokespeople that ran up a thousand posts in their first month of membership?

No wonder I posted so much when I joined - having to point out inaccuracies in these peoples posts.

There are? care to post links to such posters?

Btw, do you have any other interests in the World?

You don't even seem to have any other interests on Thai Visa .

Sorry ... is there some law that says I can't be interested in Thailand's future?

[Siam Simon]

No, I was referring specifically to Animatic, as opposed to posters who joined TV a few months ago and ran up a thousand (yes, that's 1000, folks) posts in their first month of membership .

What?? There are PTP/Red shirt spokespeople that ran up a thousand posts in their first month of membership?

No wonder I posted so much when I joined - having to point out inaccuracies in these peoples posts.

There are? care to post links to such posters?

Btw, do you have any other interests in the World?

You don't even seem to have any other interests on Thai Visa .

Sorry ... is there some law that says I can't be interested in Thailand's future?

No, none whatsoever. But it glares that you have a single interest. Never mind. You'll be foolish on many more occasions .

Edited November 20, 2010 by Siam Simon

[Robby nz]

I see more people in here trying to blame the whsitleblowers

The fact is the dems broke election law irrespective of how the charges were filed, and I would say this is more serious than a cooking show.

I see you are well up with the "facts" in this case.

Indeed the allergations (by PTP and reds) are that the Dems broke election law.

The Dems deny this.

The EC after first rejecting the allergations brought the case to court after the reds broke into the EC then read out the names and addresses of the EC members from their stage and said the members safety could not me assured if the case was not taken to court.

Seems like a threat to me.

Therefore the EC only took the case, which they had previously rejected, to court under threat.

However the case which is now before the court is about finding out who is right. IE the "facts" as to whether they are guilty or not.

There has also been the red herring of the run away sec and the tapes.

As a red leader has stated that there are more tapes to come it can safely be assumed that they had a hand in releasing them if not producing them.

If you still believe the red leaders are upright citizens who felt compelled out of concern for the wellbeing of the country to blow the whistle on a corrupt practice then sir, 'you aint been keeping up with the news in the last year or so'

[whybother]

No, none whatsoever. But it glares that you have a single interest. Never mind. You'll be foolish on many more occasions .

No. Lots of interests. Just plenty of opportunity to post.

And I'm sure I'll be foolish. But hopefully, someone is around to point out the error of my ways, and explain why my opinions are incorrect.

It doesn't seem to happen much on here though. Most posters who don't agree with my opinion usually just get personal, rather than dealing with the content of my posts.

[animatic]

If you have followed the case in it's many many public pronouncements and quoted factoids it is clear, both this article and the prosecutor facts are weak.

The printers changed things through greed or incompetence.

Dems went directly to the EC who signed off on changes made.

The EC Ok'd any changes from original proposals at the time,

It appears a printer or middle man neglected tax payments in his bid and was going to lose money, he went and tried to get more from the Dems for that screw up, and was rebuffed, he then went to PTP looking for a profitable resolution and possibly revenge for not getting his way. So childishly petulant.

The EC said all was correct several times, before the investigation and during the investigation, and ONLY filed this case AFTER Arisaman and crew invaded the EC offices, and no doubt threatened further if they didn't file it.

Based on all publicly stated testimony the case is quite weak at best.

And this article is weak for not pointing out so many facts it has ignored.

I note as this reaches the denouement that the usual pro-red suspects are out in lockstep to try and marginalize comment they disagree with before hand, try and gain control of the argument. Right on schedule. This is the typical signal that things are charging up again. I certainly expect a large red rally to spin out of control if the Dems are acquitted of either charge.

Edited November 20, 2010 by animatic

[Buchholz]

I note as this reaches the denouement that the usual pro-red suspects are out in lockstep to try and marginalize comment they disagree with before hand, try and gain control of the argument. Right on schedule. This is the typical signal that things are charging up again. I certainly expect a large red rally to spin out of control if the Dems are acquitted of either charge.

As per Post #9, I'd just like to know from them how the full Election Commission could have read 10,000 pages in an hour.

[londonthai]

problem with printers is comparable with a tv cooking show - yet some politician lost his job over it (righly so) and the country went through a big mess, which damaged it's international reputation though airports and government buildings occupations.

but what about "the money trails of the Bt258-million"?

looks like things are charging up again, there might be rallies, protests, national and international media reports, ban for the corrupted politicians and the government parliamentary coalition might finally break up

[rubl]

The only thing not surprising in this case is the contradictions in statements by various people who had been under oath when making those statements (I assume).

Welcome to Thailand

[TAWP]

londonthai >> I wouldn't call having Samak step down lead in any way to events that could be described as 'the country went through a big mess'. He could have been brought back into the office the next day with zero implications. However he had proven to hard for Thaksin to control and as such was replaced.

Edited November 20, 2010 by TAWP

[animatic]

problem with printers is comparable with a tv cooking show - yet some politician lost his job over it (righly so) and the country went through a big mess, which damaged it's international reputation though airports and government buildings occupations.

but what about "the money trails of the Bt258-million"?

looks like things are charging up again, there might be rallies, protests, national and international media reports, ban for the corrupted politicians and the government parliamentary coalition might finally break up

Except that the Dems were up front about the product they received from printers with the EC, YEARS before any charges were filed. They did not lie about it, they had no legal advice saying before hand it was not legal, and the EC Ok'd their involuntary changes making it legal at the time.

Samak ignore legal advice as he admitted in court, and lied about it in court and got caught. He admitted that he knew his lawyers told him not to do it, but he did it anyway. So yes rightly so he lost his job

The 258 million is a different case, yet to be tried and decided. So not relevant to this threads topic.

The big mess was not caused by Samak having to resign, he could have been reinstated 2 days later. Thaksin veto'd his return as PM and installed Somchai. Samak's resignation had sod all to do with the PPP election fraud case and their conviction for same, that was the trigger that caused the big mess.

Samak DID try for the SOE and unleashed the first wave of red Shirt attacks on PAD in Bangkok. Along with some Jr. PPP MPs who walked along with the DADD/UDD guys till they got close to the PADS camp. The army ignored that provocation. But it was well documented at the time Sept. 2 2008.

Soon after Somchai and company tried to re-write the constitution to give Thaksin a pass and lock in their power. That pulled the trigger on the Oct. 7th big mess, and that signaled the accelerated destruction of PPP was going to happen sooner than later. They had shown total incompetence and likely maliciousness in office, and simultaneously completely missed the world economic implosion that plunged Thailand temporarily into the abyss.

While they were worrying about Thaksins 'come home free pass', metaphorically 'Rome was burning' as they tried to fiddle with the constitution. Yet, Kuhns Davakula and Korn were writing clear editorials about the looming crisis, that apparently went over the heads of those running the government in monomaniacal and myopic fashion.

Edited November 20, 2010 by animatic

[Siripon]

problem with printers is comparable with a tv cooking show - yet some politician lost his job over it (righly so) and the country went through a big mess, which damaged it's international reputation though airports and government buildings occupations.

but what about "the money trails of the Bt258-million"?

looks like things are charging up again, there might be rallies, protests, national and international media reports, ban for the corrupted politicians and the government parliamentary coalition might finally break up

Samak had to step down as PM over the cooking show, but he had the right to stand again as PM, which he did,but Thaksin betrayed him and ordered his MPs to vote for his brother-in-law,Somchai Wongsawat instead.

Palang Prachachon, Thaksin's party, later got banned for vote buying through Mr Refrigerator,Yongyut, an event which led the PAD to abandon the airport occupation.

The silly fools had no need to seize the airport, if they had only waited 5 days for the court's verdict.

[animatic]

problem with printers is comparable with a tv cooking show - yet some politician lost his job over it (righly so) and the country went through a big mess, which damaged it's international reputation though airports and government buildings occupations.

but what about "the money trails of the Bt258-million"?

looks like things are charging up again, there might be rallies, protests, national and international media reports, ban for the corrupted politicians and the government parliamentary coalition might finally break up

Samak had to step down as PM over the cooking show, but he had the right to stand again as PM, which he did,but Thaksin betrayed him and ordered his MPs to vote for his brother-in-law,Somchai Wongsawat instead.

Palang Prachachon, Thaksin's party, later got banned for vote buying through Mr Refrigerator,Yongyut, an event which led the PAD to abandon the airport occupation.

The silly fools had no need to seize the airport, if they had only waited 5 days for the court's verdict.

I agree silly fools, but also enraged with anger fools.

Likely caused by Sea Deangs little crew of violent agitators,

later to be seen in even great malevolence right through to last Aprils debakle.

[londonthai]

The 258 million is a different case, yet to be tried and decided. So not relevant to this threads topic.

those 258mln are before printers in the ec case against democrats, very much related to this thread topic.

lets foget about printers, it's a technicality (as we can forget about samak's tv show - he is dead from cancer, shortly after being disposed from the office and story of hill illness was long known before his premiership).

after dissolution democrats will form yet another party, with those same leaders (bar few banned) and followers. But coalition might not survive

[animatic]

The 258 million is a different case, yet to be tried and decided. So not relevant to this threads topic.

those 258mln are before printers in the ec case against democrats, very much related to this thread topic.

lets foget about printers, it's a technicality (as we can forget about samak's tv show - he is dead from cancer, shortly after being disposed from the office and story of hill illness was long known before his premiership).

after dissolution democrats will form yet another party, with those same leaders (bar few banned) and followers. But coalition might not survive

The 258 million case is not the one that rested this week.

This case is about misuse of EC given money for posters.

The Election Commission on Tuesday submitted its closing statement in the Constitution Court, in the Democrat Party dissolution case related to alleged illegal use of the Political Party Development fund.

So please let's deal with the 258 million when THAT case is the topic. It is confusing to mix and match cases as if they are all the same thing. Regardless if penalties might be similar.

Edited November 20, 2010 by animatic

[rubl]

The 258 million is a different case, yet to be tried and decided. So not relevant to this threads topic.

those 258mln are before printers in the ec case against democrats, very much related to this thread topic.

lets foget about printers, it's a technicality (as we can forget about samak's tv show - he is dead from cancer, shortly after being disposed from the office and story of hill illness was long known before his premiership).

after dissolution democrats will form yet another party, with those same leaders (bar few banned) and followers. But coalition might not survive

1. the current case is about THB 29 million. The THB 290M donation case is in progress, but not nearly are far.

2. Let's forget about k. Samak although I do not really believe in 'nothing bad about the dead'.

3. As no court decision yet all on what will be is speculation.

[Buchholz]

I note as this reaches the denouement that the usual pro-red suspects are out in lockstep to try and marginalize comment they disagree with before hand, try and gain control of the argument. Right on schedule. This is the typical signal that things are charging up again. I certainly expect a large red rally to spin out of control if the Dems are acquitted of either charge.

As per Post #9, I'd just like to know from them how the full Election Commission could have read 10,000 pages in an hour.

I submit that the entire Election Commission be individually recognized as the Fastest Readers in the World.

Not only is the rate at which they read over twice as fast as the current World Record Holder, their comprehension is infinitely better as they read the evidence thoroughly enough to determine to reverse three previous Election Commission sub-committee decisions and pursue charges.

Howard Stephen Berg was published in the 1990 Guinness Book of World Records as the Fastest Reader in the World.

The Guinness Book of World Records took Berg's claim at his word. No official source has ever timed Berg to verify his reading claim. There is also a question on scanning, or skimming being considered "reading". Berg himself states that he only garners the concepts and not the details of the text as stated in this 1990 Guinness Book Of World Records excerpt:

"Super Reading. Reading Fast, 80 pages (25,000 words ) per minute is the supersonic "reading" speed claimed by Howard Stephen Berg (born 1949 Brooklyn, NY), who has convinced a number of TV hosts that he comprehends and remembers what he has scanned, perhaps not the details, but the concepts, with the details left for a later, slower reading.

[animatic]

I note as this reaches the denouement that the usual pro-red suspects are out in lockstep to try and marginalize comment they disagree with before hand, try and gain control of the argument. Right on schedule. This is the typical signal that things are charging up again. I certainly expect a large red rally to spin out of control if the Dems are acquitted of either charge.

As per Post #9, I'd just like to know from them how the full Election Commission could have read 10,000 pages in an hour.

I submit that the entire Election Commission be individually recognized as the Fastest Readers in the World.

Not only is the rate at which they read over twice as fast as the current World Record Holder, their comprehension is infinitely better as they read the evidence thoroughly enough to determine to reverse three previous Election Commission sub-committee decisions and pursue charges.

Howard Stephen Berg was published in the 1990 Guinness Book of World Records as the Fastest Reader in the World.

The Guinness Book of World Records took Berg's claim at his word. No official source has ever timed Berg to verify his reading claim. There is also a question on scanning, or skimming being considered "reading". Berg himself states that he only garners the concepts and not the details of the text as stated in this 1990 Guinness Book Of World Records excerpt:

"Super Reading. Reading Fast, 80 pages (25,000 words ) per minute is the supersonic "reading" speed claimed by Howard Stephen Berg (born 1949 Brooklyn, NY), who has convinced a number of TV hosts that he comprehends and remembers what he has scanned, perhaps not the details, but the concepts, with the details left for a later, slower reading.

Ah gotta love someone preparing legal prosecution documents at hyper-speed.

Forget the details, we'll let someone else read it slower later....