Loss Of Face ... Can Someone Tell Me What It Is Really All About ?

[dansat]

Here on TV and in our lives in general live in Thailand we hear quite abit about 'Lose of Face' .. But in what situations does is happen ? Can someone give me some examples that would course someone to 'Lose Face' ?

Can this really happen to someone over the age of 21 with a brain ?

[whybother]

The way I understand it is that it's all about embarrassment.

In the west, in general, if you make a mistake and someone points it out, you might feel a bit embarrassed, or even say thanks for pointing it out.

But in Thailand, pointing out a mistake and potentially embarrassing someone is a big No No.

It also seems to be ingrained that there needs to be retaliation against anyone causing embarrassment.

[Loz]

the most common occurrence of loss of face is when riding a motorcycle drunk with no helmet...

[Loz]

Not for kids:

[slapout]

danset; try to remember you most embarrassing moment that you can remember. Then try to remember if that moment was the result or perceived to have been the result of the actions or words of another person, by yourself and/or an audience. Then again it may be that you may not have been directly a party to any verbal or physical embarrassment but you hear about it second/third hand, ditto on the loss of face.

Many of us have been brought up to laugh at ourselves when we are shown the error or even stupidly of our ways, granted it may have a time lag, but the embarrassment is soon forgotten. The loss of face advocates seem to have a very selective memory depending on which side of the table they are on. 'Loss of face' seems to be similar to 'beauty', it is in the eye of the beholder.

[GM1955]

In the west its called embarrassment.

No big mystery.

[whybother]

In the west its called embarrassment.

No big mystery.

In Thailand, the mystery is the (over) reaction to it.

[richard_smith237]

Loss of Face:

> An excuse for adults to act like children when they make a mistake.

> An excuse for other adults not to deal with the reality of others mistakes.

> Often combined with 'Kraeng Jai', Loss of Face plays a vital role in the curtailed development of an otherwise fantastic country.

[GM1955]

In the west its called embarrassment.

No big mystery.

In Thailand, the mystery is the (over) reaction to it.

In Japan suicide can result in a loss of honour, prestige, reputation etc.

I'm quite sure wars have been started over similar things resulting in thousands upon thousands of people being slaughtered.

Many Farangs here are amazed at how things can turn with a Thai man if he feels his reputation, or face is at risk, yet you can get the granny kicked out of you in the UK just for wearing the wrong football shirt in the wrong place.

Try approaching a group of 18 to 25 year olds in a strange place in the UK and see what reaction you get, would it be the same reaction as you will get 99.9% of the time in Thailand ?

Different countries peoples have different attitudes and ways about them, thats what makes things interesting.

But getting the <deleted> kicked out of me in some pub on a Friday night in a town in the Uk just for saying hello to the wrong person, no thanks, I'll take my chances here.

We from the UK adapted to the ways of our own people to live a hassle free existence as far as we could, we have to do the same in Thailand too, adapt folks, adapt.

[anothertorres]

Loss of face? sure. it's the #1 reason why Thailand will never progress. that and lack of decent education. these peeps don't even know their own history...

[IanForbes]

Other than Loz's humourous version of it (dark humour), it is an Asian thing, but not unlike embarrasment in western cultures, as others have already said. BUT, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE!

Asians do not like to be corrected in any shape or form. It is a culture thing and a form of respect. Respect for others is VERY important in Aisa. And, because there IS a racial, class culture system in Asia, then someone who is determined to be a "superior" can not be questioned. Whatever they say is supposed to be the gospel truth. That is a major cause for problems in the Thai education system. Thais who feel they've been embarrased in public, or even in private, take it VERY personally. They DON'T understand constructive criticism and take it very badly. And, enough so that they will quit an otherwise excellent paying job.

A further problem in business is that Asians always try to be respectful... even when they have to basically lie to whomever they are speaking to. That is why a company will agree with any business proposal even though they have no ability to carry out the agreement.

And, because there are ALWAYS two ways of saying the same thing, it takes a special kind of person to manage the personel in Asian companies. Some westerners NEVER learn that process.

[a51mas]

Loss of face? sure. it's the #1 reason why Thailand will never progress. that and lack of decent education. these peeps don't even know their own history...

Isn't it funny that the stupid people and culture of Thailand able to provided you all the good life, roof over your head, which can not be said of your motherland, the fact that you chose this country over your birth place, although you have a negative view of Thailand and its people, speak volume. It is like a hypocrite that hates the chickens but loves the eggs, and please don't tell us you only have smart people in your motherland.

[dansat]

Loss of face? sure. it's the #1 reason why Thailand will never progress. that and lack of decent education. these peeps don't even know their own history...

Isn't it funny that the stupid people and culture of Thailand able to provided you all the good life, roof over your head, which can not be said of your motherland, the fact that you chose this country over your birth place, although you have a negative view of Thailand and its people, speak volume. It is like a hypocrite that hates the chickens but loves the eggs, and please don't tell us you only have smart people in your motherland.

Haha... Say again ?

[Farang0tang]

"Can this really happen to someone over the age of 21 with a brain ? "

Yes - however, back home you would call it a Loss of Brain.

[IMA_FARANG]

Here's an example of "losing face" that happened to me about a week ago. I went to my local Bangkok Bank branch to ask about opening a savings account in my name for my 800K Baht as required for a retirement extension. The female clerk said. "No, can't be done". Reason: must have proof of income of 65,000 Baht from your embessy to open account. Gave me a book in English and showed me the requirements for opening the account. In that book it said I could open a savings account by bringing the equivalent of 800K baht into country OR was able to show 65,000 Baht income monthly OR a combination of the two. When I pointed this out to her she still insistedI must have proof of my income from my embessy.

It only took me a few minutes of talking to her to realise that , in fact, she had no idea of what to do to open my account, and she was simply useing the "proof of income" reason as an excuse to "save face" by admiiting she didn't know how to open the account in the first place. If she had to say she didn't know how to open an account in my name she would have "lost face" by saying that, So she hid her ignorance behind the phoney "proof of income" excuse.

So I went to another branch of Bangkok Bank, one that had more experience dealing with Farang customers, and I opened the account I wanted there.

And that's a classic "losing face" Thai situaton...because she didn't really know what to do, to avoid "losing face", she made up a reason for not opening the account.

After 30 years in Thaland, I've learned to recognise the situation.

[GM1955]

Loss of face? sure. it's the #1 reason why Thailand will never progress. that and lack of decent education. these peeps don't even know their own history...

Yet they know enough to build a country that you travelled thousands of miles to live in because it's preferable to your own country.

[a51mas]

Loss of face? sure. it's the #1 reason why Thailand will never progress. that and lack of decent education. these peeps don't even know their own history...

Isn't it funny that the stupid people and culture of Thailand able to provided you all the good life, roof over your head, which can not be said of your motherland, the fact that you chose this country over your birth place, although you have a negative view of Thailand and its people, speak volume. It is like a hypocrite that hates the chickens but loves the eggs, and please don't tell us you only have smart people in your motherland.

Haha... Say again ?

Thank you dansat for pointing out the mistake, I was trying to do a short cut /editing and didn't realized that the sentences were not in correct order,

Isn't it funny that the people and culture of Thailand that you implied as stupid were able to provided you all the good life, roof over your head, which your wonderful motherland unable to do, Despite your negative view of Thailand and its people you chose to live here. It is like a hypocrite that hates the chickens but loves the eggs, and please don't tell us you only have smart people in your motherland.

[Moonrakers]

Loss of face = no accountability

[GM1955]

don't tell us you only have smart people in your motherland.

Good point, now you'll be labelled as an " apologist ", " man with rose tinted specs ", " wait till you've been here longer ", " you'll see what they're like " etc etc.

On ThaiVisa, you're either with the Thai Bashing majority, or you're against them, contentment with your lot will not be tolerated, to be in Thailand must be a time of suffering, it's not possible to actually enjoy living in the place you travelled thousands of miles to live in.

If you're not moaning on this forum and are content, people think there's something wrong with you.

Says a lot about many posters here. They screwed up and have many many regrets, they're unhappy and find it hard to integrate, blown all their money and can't afford to leave cos they blew the lot on a misguided dream, the dream that they could come to Thailand and live like a Lord for the rest of their lives and every day would be a holiday.

The dream fades into reality, and reality isn't pleasant for the dreamer, the dream becomes a nightmare. Bitterness, despair and hopelessness cast a doom cloud over the unfortunate expat, not knowing where to turn, he joins ThaiVisa to find like minded people to complain with, kindred spirits if I may be so bold.

Along comes guys that are content and financially secure to ruin their last place of refuge, how dare these people be content when i'm totally kin' miserable, they must be new here, you wait, they'll find out what Thailand is really like.

They hope you end up just like them, otherwise they failed and you didn't, if everyone fails, they don't feel so bad.

[IanForbes]

And ANOTHER reasonable question turns into a bickering match between neanderthals.

[GM1955]

And ANOTHER reasonable question turns into a bickering match between neanderthals.

Has it ?

I didn't notice, apart from your provocative post, it was running smooth, and light hearted.

Your post is the most insulting so far, well done.

[angiud]

And ANOTHER reasonable question turns into a bickering match between neanderthals.

I agree with Ian, 2 posters hijack the thread because both of them don't want to loose the face....

Neanderthal is a compliment, more of Australopitecus

[a51mas]

neanderthals.

It takes one to knows one, but funny you are the first one I see that have no hair

[GM1955]

And ANOTHER reasonable question turns into a bickering match between neanderthals.

I agree with Ian, 2 posters hijack the thread because both of them don't want to loose the face....

Neanderthal is a compliment, more of Australopitecus

So opinions mean nothing if they don't go along with the normal slagging off of Thailand and her people, an adverse opinion is neanderthal ? Strange viewpoint.

You must be happy that you never married a Thai national and chose to live in Thailand. I did and I'm glad i did, then again, I'm from the UK and am glad to be away, so to me Thailand is certainly preferable to the alternative.

[sillyman99]

So opinions mean nothing if they don't go along with the normal slagging off of Thailand and her people, an adverse opinion is neanderthal ? Strange viewpoint.

You must be happy that you never married a Thai national and chose to live in Thailand. I did and I'm glad i did, then again, I'm from the UK and am glad to be away, so to me Thailand is certainly preferable to the alternative.

GM, don't worry about it mate, you'll never win here, the self loathing and despair runs too deep in many of the posters. Most here are scared to say anything positive because of the abuse they'll get and just go along with the negativity, or stay silent.

LOL.

[GuestHouse]

It's stunningly effective tool of reprisal - Use it wisely.

[slapout]

Asians unlike most of us farang seem to excel at leaving themselves wiggle room to side step being put into a position where 'loss of face; is inevitable. In my relative short time in the LOS, I have seen the non Asians exhibit actions/words which result in 'loss of face', but seldom the Thais. This may speak volumes about our understanding of both the term as perceived in the Asian mind and their actions.

[tartempion]

Loss of Face:

> An excuse for adults to act like children when they make a mistake.

> An excuse for other adults not to deal with the reality of others mistakes.

> Often combined with 'Kraeng Jai', Loss of Face plays a vital role in the curtailed development of an otherwise fantastic country.

Unfortunately, there is a lot more wrong in this otherwise fantastic country than just loss of face

[elliss]

Loss of face? sure. it's the #1 reason why Thailand will never progress. that and lack of decent education. these peeps don't even know their own history...

Yet they know enough to build a country that you travelled thousands of miles to live in because it's preferable to your own country.

yep,,

NO SHORTAGE OF BRAIN DEAD,SELF IMPORTANT FARANGS IN LOS.

in thailand, they feel superior by birth rite .

back in their homeland ,, they are just run of the mill, losers :jap: LOL

[sillyman99]

Unfortunately, there is a lot more wrong in this otherwise fantastic country than just loss of face

After reading ThaiVisa for a while, seems we'd be better off on devils island.