Pope Gives Guarded Approval For Condom Use

[isanbirder]

The Pope, in a new book, has given limited approval to the use of condom use in the fight against HIV. He particularly suggests it for male prostitutes, which I find bizarre, as presumably male prostitutes are doubly sinful.

Although it's a very minor concession, I see this as a giant first step towards the relaxing of Catholic attitudes to the use of contraceptives, with all their importance in safe sex for gays. Let's hope the next relaxation doesn't take so long.

(I changed the word 'guarded' to 'limited', which is more accurate)

Edited November 21, 2010 by isanbirder

[Guest]

I find it hard to believe that a bunch of aging 12th century queens in frocks who have turned a blind eye to child molesters have such a huge following. In reality they should have no influence over anyone, and what they do has little relevance to anything JC is alleged to have preached..

[kek]

[isanbirder]

I find it hard to believe that a bunch of aging 12th century queens in frocks who have turned a blind eye to child molesters have such a huge following. In reality they should have no influence over anyone, and what they do has little relevance to anything JC is alleged to have preached..

Don't be so negative, Pauln. In countries where Catholicism predominates, and there are still many of these, the church's attitude to contraception (and in the case of gays, safe sex) is very important to a lot of people. What you think has little to do with it.

[isanbirder]

It hadn't dawned on me that use of condoms by gays is OK anyway as it does not impede conception. So the whole thing is a non-issue; the Pope has not given any ground whatsoever.

[Scott]

Yes, this is good news. It would appear that the church is speeding right into the 12th century.

[kek]

Anyone else noticed Ireland ran out of money when the Pope said condoms were okay?

[paulfromphuket]

How can a practicing Chatholic be homosexual?

[peridot]

How can a practicing Chatholic be homosexual?

Ask the pope. There have been strong rumors about him since he was young.

[isanbirder]

How can a practicing Chatholic be homosexual?

You should have asked the other way round, How can a homosexual be a practising Catholic?

The answer is, Very easily.... and that's all the answer you're going to get from me on TV!

[tombkk]

How can a practicing Chatholic be homosexual?

The Pope never mentioned homosexuals. He mentioned male prostitutes.

If a straight male prostitute happens to be Catholic, he is not committing a sin any more by using a condom. I can imagine that quite a number of these people exist.

It's an achievement. If - and that's a big if - you happen to care what the Pope says. Millions of people - including male prostitutes - do.

[tombkk]

How can a practicing Chatholic be homosexual?

The Pope never mentioned homosexuals. He mentioned male prostitutes.

If a straight male prostitute happens to be Catholic, he is not committing a sin any more by using a condom. I can imagine that quite a number of these people exist.

It's an achievement. If - and that's a big if - you happen to care what the Pope says. Millions of people - including male prostitutes - do.

On second thought, one has to admire the Pope. Prostitutes are often misunderstood, even outlawed, in many countries. And when we think about them, we usually think about females, so the males are a minority within a minority. And His Holiness is reaching out to them!

I'm serious. The Pope is diplomatically on the level of a Head of State. I have never heard anybody else on this level even admit that these people (male prostitutes) exist. Kudos!

[paulfromphuket]

How can a practicing Chatholic be homosexual?

Ask the pope. There have been strong rumors about him since he was young.

There has never been a virgin pope, ask any choir boy!

[paulfromphuket]

How can a practicing Chatholic be homosexual?

You should have asked the other way round, How can a homosexual be a practising Catholic?

The answer is, Very easily.... and that's all the answer you're going to get from me on TV!

You might be absloutely correct there, however I have no wish to debate it with you either

[tombkk]

How can a practicing Chatholic be homosexual?

You should have asked the other way round, How can a homosexual be a practising Catholic?

The answer is, Very easily.... and that's all the answer you're going to get from me on TV!

You might be absloutely correct there, however I have no wish to debate it with you either

Good to know that this has been discussed and everybody agrees.

Let's have a group hug, and then everybody can go home.

[SweatiePie]

As isanbirder said in his original post, the whole thing's "bizarre".

The Pope says that condom use is permissible in certain cases, but that this does not include married couples; he cites (apparently) male prostitutes as an example, but while the gay lobby has concluded that he is talking about male gay prostitutes (or at least those catering to gay males, regardless of their own sexual preference) he could just as easily be talking about male prostitutes catering to straight women - or not, depending on how you interpret what he said.

To confuse things even further while the English translation of the German original talks specifically about "male prostitutes", the Italian version just talks about prostitutes. As i don't speak German I have no idea what the original German said, nor does it really matter as the church's position remains unchanged.

Although it is often blamed for the Catholic Church's view, Pope Paul VI's encyclical Humanae Vitae was at least aimed specifically at married couples, assuming naively that sexual relations only took place in marriage; John Paul II's encyclical Veritatis Splendor was far more specific, instructing that no artificial contraception was permitted under any circumstances. Until a Pope comes out with a new encyclical formally changing the Catholic church's teaching on contraception they will still deliberately condemn countless thousands of men, women and children to an unnecessary and unpleasant early death, and nothing will change that.

[SweatiePie]

.... If a straight male prostitute happens to be Catholic, he is not committing a sin any more by using a condom.

He never was "committing a sin ... by using a condom" if he was having sex with a man; if he is having sex with a woman the position (no pun intended) is now unclear, at best. The Catholic church's ban on birth control was because it prevented procreation - nothing to do with recreation - so it is unlikely that even the Pope would be so illogical as to condone condom use by a male prostitute with a female client but not a male client with a female prostitute. Not impossible, but unlikely.

As isanbirder also said, nothing has changed and the Pope hasn't given ground at all. If anything (and if he was referring to male prostitutes who have sex with men, as seems most likely) his "concession" on these grounds to stop the spread of HIV simply indicates his lack of understanding of the problem, since most cases of HIV (particularly in Africa) are not from MSM but from straight sex.

Edited December 2, 2010 by SweatiePie

[tombkk]

To confuse things even further while the English translation of the German original talks specifically about "male prostitutes", the Italian version just talks about prostitutes. As i don't speak German I have no idea what the original German said, nor does it really matter as the church's position remains unchanged.

I read German (among some other languages). If you have a link to the original text, please send it. I always prefer to read the original texts of anything (currently struggling with Chinese...).

Be aware that I am only marginally interested in anything Catholic, but it appears to be fun to get to the bottom of what he said.

On a side note, didn't previous popes write in Latin rather than their native language?

[tombkk]

.... If a straight male prostitute happens to be Catholic, he is not committing a sin any more by using a condom.

He never was "committing a sin ... by using a condom" if he was having sex with a man; if he is having sex with a woman the position (no pun intended) is now unclear, at best. The Catholic church's ban on birth control was because it prevented procreation - nothing to do with recreation - so it is unlikely that even the Pope would be so illogical as to condone condom use by a male prostitute with a female client but not a male client with a female prostitute. Not impossible, but unlikely.

As isanbirder also said, nothing has changed and the Pope hasn't given ground at all. If anything (and if he was referring to male prostitutes who have sex with men, as seems most likely) his "concession" on these grounds to stop the spread of HIV simply indicates his lack of understanding of the problem, since most cases of HIV (particularly in Africa) are not from MSM but from straight sex.

You mean if condoms prevent procreation that's bad, but if they prevent recreation that's OK? My philosophy is the opposite.

On second thought: scnr!

[SweatiePie]

To confuse things even further while the English translation of the German original talks specifically about "male prostitutes", the Italian version just talks about prostitutes. As i don't speak German I have no idea what the original German said, nor does it really matter as the church's position remains unchanged.

I read German (among some other languages). If you have a link to the original text, please send it. I always prefer to read the original texts of anything (currently struggling with Chinese...).

Be aware that I am only marginally interested in anything Catholic, but it appears to be fun to get to the bottom of what he said.

On a side note, didn't previous popes write in Latin rather than their native language?

You can get a copy here (sorry!).

Evidently he had referred specifically to male prostitutes but now he has apparently widened his view to include all prostitutes. Even more bizarre!

Latin? It was an interview in the form of a book, not an encyclical.

You mean if condoms prevent procreation that's bad, but if they prevent recreation that's OK? My philosophy is the opposite.

Not quite. What the Pope apparently means is that using condoms is "OK" if one participant is a prostitute but "bad" otherwise. Ipsi dixit

(Latine dictum sit altum videtur)