Smoking While Or Between Preparing Meals

[AdamBangkok]

A while back when i was broke i flew back to the UK from Bangkok on Aeroflot. There was a non-smoking area on the plane 'in theory.' I was sat in it, next to a Russian guy who ate and smoked simultaneously - with a fork and a cigarette in the same hand, alternately shovelling food into his mouth and then dragging on the cigarette.

Impressive stuff.

[mark45y]

A while back when i was broke i flew back to the UK from Bangkok on Aeroflot. There was a non-smoking area on the plane 'in theory.' I was sat in it, next to a Russian guy who ate and smoked simultaneously - with a fork and a cigarette in the same hand, alternately shovelling food into his mouth and then dragging on the cigarette.

Impressive stuff.

In the Army way back when a lot of people smoked and ate at the same time because you only got one break. I always thought it was odd. A lot of Thai food has so many peppers you can't taste anything else anyway. I also think most Thais have dead taste buds because of the excess peppers. How else would you explain people like to drink Thai beer.

[Loz]

if i can't see it, i'm less repulsed by it. is that really so shocking? we all tolerate torture and mutilation around the world because its not thrust under our noses. same deal, no?

[mark45y]

if i can't see it, i'm less repulsed by it. is that really so shocking? we all tolerate torture and mutilation around the world because its not thrust under our noses. same deal, no?

You are absolutely right. I bet Bill never has a cigar when Hillary is around.

[luckyluke]

The poor guy get no break so :

[bonobo]

Health inspector comes into kitchen and sees an ashtray with a cigarette butt in it.  He is going to tell you to get rid of the ashtray and don't smoke in the kitchen.  End of discussion.

Health inspector comes into kitchen and your dish washing machine is under temperature.  He is going to close your restaurant until you get it fixed.  He will red tag the place and you are out of business until the machine is up to temperature.  

I am just saying get your priorities in order.

The OP, as far as I know, never wrote that this is the most pressing problem in a kitchen.  He asked a simple question on others' opinions on cooks who smoke while preparing foods.

I think murder is of a higher priority than dish washing machine temperature (not a whole lot of dish washing machines in most restaurants here, for that matter), so should I ask you to get your priorities in order as well?

There are many, many issues in the world about which someone can be concerned.  Not all are of the highest priority.  So for me, to chastise the OP for asking a simple question, while technically maybe not flaming, is really uncalled for and adds nothing to the thread.  Most people would agree that other food safety issues are more problematic, but that still does not mean that this one issue has to be ignored.

[luckizuchinni]

You guys are funny. I used to have a very successful breakfast restaurant. Cooked hundreds of omelets per hour. The kitchen was hot. Real hot. During the breakfast rush everybody cooked including me. We all wore terrycloth cotton head bands to prevent the sweat from getting in our eyes. They worked for ten minutes or so. Then the sweat came pouring down our foreheads and into the omelets. No time to wipe your brow we were too busy. I didn't salt the omelets because I figured the sweat did that. But we didn't smoke.

Of all the things that happen in a production kitchen I would not worry about smoking. Rat droppings dry up and are blown by air on the food. Rats poop as they walk so rat poop is everywhere. Same with cockroach droppings. Mold is a frequent problem as kitchens are wet from cooking and cleaning. There are human diseases like hepatitis that are transferred from people to food. Human poop is a big problem. Washing hands is a must but hands must be washed properly. How many toilets in Thailand have soap? Ever seen a Thai pick their nose or pimples? Think they stop when they are working as a cook?

You can relax about the smoking it is the least of the problems in a restaurant kitchen.

Well, glad to know I don't have to worry about anything else in a restaurant 'cause rat turds trump all. So I'm going to ignore anything else, but especially ciggie ashes.

(Written with many years experience in the restaurant biz.)

[mark45y]

Health inspector comes into kitchen and sees an ashtray with a cigarette butt in it.  He is going to tell you to get rid of the ashtray and don't smoke in the kitchen.  End of discussion.

Health inspector comes into kitchen and your dish washing machine is under temperature.  He is going to close your restaurant until you get it fixed.  He will red tag the place and you are out of business until the machine is up to temperature.  

I am just saying get your priorities in order.

The OP, as far as I know, never wrote that this is the most pressing problem in a kitchen.  He asked a simple question on others' opinions on cooks who smoke while preparing foods.

I think murder is of a higher priority than dish washing machine temperature (not a whole lot of dish washing machines in most restaurants here, for that matter), so should I ask you to get your priorities in order as well?

There are many, many issues in the world about which someone can be concerned.  Not all are of the highest priority.  So for me, to chastise the OP for asking a simple question, while technically maybe not flaming, is really uncalled for and adds nothing to the thread.  Most people would agree that other food safety issues are more problematic, but that still does not mean that this one issue has to be ignored.

I certainly never meant chastise the OP. Different people have different tastes. Different people have different fears.

I have worked in kitchens all of my life. I have seen standards change and evolve.

A long time ago food was dropped off at a restaurant and put on a table in the middle of the kitchen and worked all day long with no refrigeration. Milk was not pasteurized. Many things in life change.

As far as washing dishes go. A sanitary restaurant has two choices, temperature or chemicals to insure safety. Restaurants don't put pots through the automatic dishwasher they wash them in a pot sink with a sanitizing agent. It freaks me out to watch dishes washed street side with rats running nearby. A little soap and no sanitizer. Three sinks, minimum. One wash, one sanitize and one rinse. There are no exceptions. This is one reason so many people get sick in Thailand. Even the simplest of rules are not in place.

Forty years ago even in the best restaurants in Chicago, New York and San Francisco cooks smoked and waiters smoked. Did the food taste worse or have our perceptions changed? Way back when I worked at Brennen's in New Orleans, The Pump Room in Chicago and Henry Africa's in San Francisco (world's first fern bar). I smoked in all of them.

Smoking in a restaurant is not a danger to food safety or taste. It is a danger to peoples perceptions and perhaps a danger because of second hand smoke.

I am certainly not suggesting to ignore the issue. Only to understand it for what it is. You don't like smoking. The great majority of people don't like smoking. Smoking will eventually become a thing of the past like unpasteurized milk. The times are a changing and you don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing.

[bonobo]

Smoking in a restaurant is not a danger to food safety or taste.  It is a danger to peoples perceptions and perhaps a danger because of second hand smoke.  

I am certainly not suggesting to ignore the issue.  Only to understand it for what it is.  You don't like smoking.  The great majority of people don't like smoking.  Smoking will eventually become a thing of the past like unpasteurized milk.  The times are a changing and you don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing.

I will write this, then leave it at that.

First, back in the seventies, I used to watch the head cook at Mama Lacona's in Des Moines smoke while cooking, and I have personally seen his ashes fall into the pasta sauce.  Maybe the sauce overpowered any taste of the ashes, but had it been, say a creme brulee or panna cotta, would the same thing hold true?  

Second, I smoke meats regularly, and I experiment with the mixing of various types of woods.  I am quite familiar with how certain foods pick up smoke flavors, even under very brief exposures.  And as much as cigarette smoke sticks in clothes, I can't imagine that the smoke could not alter the taste of some foods. I am not certain of this, but I would have to say that would be possible to alter the taste.

Third, a kitchen that allows smoking would probably be less than hygienic in all other areas as well.  A kitchen takes constant work to keep clean, and the mere fact that smoking is allowed would have to affect kitchen discipline. 

And to paraphrase Mr. Gump, "And that's all I have to write about that."

[mark45y]

Smoking in a restaurant is not a danger to food safety or taste.  It is a danger to peoples perceptions and perhaps a danger because of second hand smoke.  

I am certainly not suggesting to ignore the issue.  Only to understand it for what it is.  You don't like smoking.  The great majority of people don't like smoking.  Smoking will eventually become a thing of the past like unpasteurized milk.  The times are a changing and you don't need a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing.

I will write this, then leave it at that.

First, back in the seventies, I used to watch the head cook at Mama Lacona's in Des Moines smoke while cooking, and I have personally seen his ashes fall into the pasta sauce.  Maybe the sauce overpowered any taste of the ashes, but had it been, say a creme brulee or panna cotta, would the same thing hold true?  

Second, I smoke meats regularly, and I experiment with the mixing of various types of woods.  I am quite familiar with how certain foods pick up smoke flavors, even under very brief exposures.  And as much as cigarette smoke sticks in clothes, I can't imagine that the smoke could not alter the taste of some foods. I am not certain of this, but I would have to say that would be possible to alter the taste.

Third, a kitchen that allows smoking would probably be less than hygienic in all other areas as well.  A kitchen takes constant work to keep clean, and the mere fact that smoking is allowed would have to affect kitchen discipline. 

And to paraphrase Mr. Gump, "And that's all I have to write about that."

Not necessary to reply to this.

I don't think kitchens in the West allow smoking anymore, so it's kind of a moot point.

As a manager or chef I never smoked in the kitchen. I went in my office to smoke. I never let any cooks smoke while they were cooking. That's just common sense. In high school we had a smoking lounge, we didn't smoke in class.

A hygienic kitchen is a matter of law not anecdotal evidence. If the chef looks unkempt and wears a dirty shirt and smokes outside by the dumpster does he have an unclean kitchen? I have no idea. I would have to look in the kitchen.

I would actually be more afraid of a cook with new tattoos than one who smoked. Hepatitis is passed by needles and may be passed by the cook to food.

If you smoke meats I am sure you know what to do if you get a bit of ash on a roast. Brush it off. It has just been burned and is sterile. I used to eat a lot of smoked meats but I became concerned about the amount of salt in the brine cures before smoking so I stopped.

I do know where you are coming from. I used to work for a large company and was very successful. The human resources lady was a non smoker and freaked out by the fact that I smoked in my office which was 20 feet away from the kitchen, 30 feet from the dining room and vented outside. There was not a no smoking rule at the company but nevertheless it freaked her out. I had been there for 8 years, she 8 months. She went to the chairman of the board who she was also having an affair with and asked him to stop me smoking in my office. He was a friend of mine. He told me to stop smoking in my office. I told him, “me or her.” He fired me! She was the new wave. I was the dinosaur.

I bought my own chain of restaurants and smoked where I wanted. No harm no foul.

[Mighty Mouse]

Is the cigarette smoking chef any different to the chef who handles each piece of your food whilst plating?

A good chef tastes the food before it is plated. Most will use the same spoon for each tasting. Lick the spoon, put it back into the next pot to taste it...if they don't use a spoon, they use a finger.

Presentation is most important to a discerning chef. Pile the food up into a nice neat stack, then serve it. Each piece on the plate is handled numerous times....including the pieces that fall onto the floor.

Preparing food on a dirty workbench. Don't wash the knife after each use...including the cutting of raw chicken.

Best solution to all these problems? Eat at home.

[mark45y]

Every day before the evening rush started it was my responsibility to taste the line (sauces, soups etc). To be honest I used a handful of spoons so I would not get cross tastes.

The only way to tell if a steak is done is to finger it. Make a fist and squeeze. Feel the space behind your thumb that is hard. That is well done. Other places on your hand are medium and rare. I wore a Chefs tunic and an apron over that. In the waste band of the apron I kept a couple of rags to clean the plate of any stray spatters made during plating. The plate goes on top of a stainless steel shelf and an expediter on the other side assembles the order from different parts of a cooking line, broiled, sautéed, cold entrees and so on. He also adds his touch to each plate and puts it on a tray. The waiter takes the tray and adjusts items he may not have written on a ticket. Everybody touches the food. Some chefs used to touch the food and then lick their fingers to clean. Even though the food was hot this always bothered me.

We used color coded cutting boards. A different color for beef, chicken and so on but I ran high class restaurants.

In my experience Kosher kitchens are the cleanest with no cross contamination at all. I didn't work in many Kosher kitchen, they were hel_l on smokers even many years ago.

When I was a young restaurant manager in Chicago I belonged to a club of junior restaurant managers. We would meet monthly and all pitch in to buy one or two outrageously priced bottles of wine. We each got a small glass. A restaurant manager needs to know about wine because a good purchase of a young wine may increase in value tremendously over a few years if you purchase correctly.

After the wine and appetizers we would all go to a restaurant and eat, usually at the owners table in the kitchen. Good restaurants have a table in the kitchen for the owner and VIP staff to eat at before the evenings business. It is show and tell of specials and products for that day. One of the previous posters mentioned Chinese restaurants. Yes they are scary. Some restaurants allowed you to smoke at the owners table in the kitchen most did not.

Chicago is a very ethnically oriented city. Large communities of native speaking people with restaurants serving authentic ethnic food. German, Swedish, Polish, Italian, Hungarian and on and on. Most had a smoking area out behind the restaurant by the trash area, few that I saw did any smoking in the kitchen even 40 years ago.