American Football

[patsfangr]

patsfangr, mcnabb was the reason the eagles were in the game late in the fourth; his peformance carried the offense. referring to the superbowl, he was puking during the final drive which is why he couldn't manage the game; ever try running a two minute drill while barfing all over the field? not easy i imagine. and if you are not familiar with mcnabb, it is something that has bothered him all throughout his career; whenever he plays in high humidity, he usually throws up late in the second half . . it's just his body.

i do agree, he made a few poor decisions on the last drive - not throwing the ball away and not running on the one play he had a huge lane to his right, but it is obvious he is back to form. and once we have brown and curtis back, we will have three quality starting wide receivers for him; something we should have had for him throughout his career. don't forget, mcnabb took the eagles to three straight nfc champioship games with todd pinkston and james thrash as his starting receivers . . yeah, that's right, pinkston and thrash! the one year (with good vibes) mcnabb had TO, the eagles offense was dynamic . . if mcnabb had a moss/burress/TO type to throw to throughout his career . . i can only imagine the results. again i say PINKSTON AND THRASH!! is brady or romo the same player with pinkston and thrash at wideout?

Well, qwunk, I'd have to argue that it is McNabb's heart, and not his body, that has him puking under pressure.

You are aware, I assume that Tom Brady didn't win any of his 3 Super Bowls with Randy Moss as his top receiver, right? He won SB 36 with his top 2 WRs as Troy Brown and David Patten. He won SB 38 with David Givens and Patten. He won SB 30 with Deion Branch and David Givens. Want to check the career statistics of those guys? Other than Brown, who was a superb 3rd down "go to guy", you won't find any of them in line for consideration for the Hall of Fame. It's even unlikely that Troy Brown will make it into anything other than the Patriots HOF, where he's a shoe-in.

Brady has been a winner with game management, and an uncanny ability to make plays in the clutch. His winning drives in all 3 of those SBs are legendary. And he did it again last year; only to have the defense run out of gas, and give it up to the Giants.

Donovan McNabb has consistently produced in "ordinary games", and during first 3-1/2 quarters of many important games. But he has consistently failed in clutch situations. When McNabb is throwing up his lunch; Brady is throwing TD passes. That, and not the quality of their WRs, is the difference between the two.

By the way, did you know that "gunslinger" Romo, recognizing that tendency as his major fault, says that he has studied Tom Brady to learn how to be cool in the pocket. Jaworski, if you noticed, detailed that a bit during the Cowboys-Eagles game.

[bonobo]

Sept, 14 2008

Denver 39, San Diego 38

I watched this live via sligbox and am still sick to my stomach.

Cutler played well, I have to admit, and the Charger D was not great, but the refs handed the game to the Broncos. First was the phantom "interception" by Bailey against Chambers. Chambers had the ball and was down, then Bailey took the ball away. Replay was very clear on this, but somehow, the local Denver boys running the replay booth couldn't get it to work, so the refs gave the ball to Denver deep in San Diego territory as an interception. Then with a little over a minute left and San Diego up by 7, Cutler clearly fumbled the ball and the Chargers recovered. The ref blew it dead and gave the ball back to Denver at the point of the fumble. Two plays later, Denver put it in for the score.

Yes, the Chargers should have held. But regardless, the refs gave the game to Denver. The referee admitted his mistake later and apologized, but the damage has already been done.

And for all the yapping about how Cutler was so much better than Rivers, Rivers had a better game. Take away that phantom fumble, and it wasn't even close. A least Rivers completed a number of long passes.

[patsfangr]

Sept, 14 2008

Denver 39, San Diego 38

I watched this live via sligbox and am still sick to my stomach.

Cutler played well, I have to admit, and the Charger D was not great, but the refs handed the game to the Broncos. First was the phantom "interception" by Bailey against Chambers. Chambers had the ball and was down, then Bailey took the ball away. Replay was very clear on this, but somehow, the local Denver boys running the replay booth couldn't get it to work, so the refs gave the ball to Denver deep in San Diego territory as an interception. Then with a little over a minute left and San Diego up by 7, Cutler clearly fumbled the ball and the Chargers recovered. The ref blew it dead and gave the ball back to Denver at the point of the fumble. Two plays later, Denver put it in for the score.

Yes, the Chargers should have held. But regardless, the refs gave the game to Denver. The referee admitted his mistake later and apologized, but the damage has already been done.

And for all the yapping about how Cutler was so much better than Rivers, Rivers had a better game. Take away that phantom fumble, and it wasn't even close. A least Rivers completed a number of long passes.

As a Patriots fan, I was completely neutral watching this game. You are absolutely right. The Chargers got 'jobbed'! Both QBs played well; but the game was decided by the officials!

[Old Man River]

Sept, 14 2008

Denver 39, San Diego 38

I watched this live via sligbox and am still sick to my stomach.

Cutler played well, I have to admit, and the Charger D was not great, but the refs handed the game to the Broncos. First was the phantom "interception" by Bailey against Chambers. Chambers had the ball and was down, then Bailey took the ball away. Replay was very clear on this, but somehow, the local Denver boys running the replay booth couldn't get it to work, so the refs gave the ball to Denver deep in San Diego territory as an interception. Then with a little over a minute left and San Diego up by 7, Cutler clearly fumbled the ball and the Chargers recovered. The ref blew it dead and gave the ball back to Denver at the point of the fumble. Two plays later, Denver put it in for the score.

Yes, the Chargers should have held. But regardless, the refs gave the game to Denver. The referee admitted his mistake later and apologized, but the damage has already been done.

And for all the yapping about how Cutler was so much better than Rivers, Rivers had a better game. Take away that phantom fumble, and it wasn't even close. A least Rivers completed a number of long passes.

As a Patriots fan, I was completely neutral watching this game. You are absolutely right. The Chargers got 'jobbed'! Both QBs played well; but the game was decided by the officials!

Which will forever be known as the Hochuli game.

[qwunk89]

everyone, including eagles and cowboys fans, pretty much agree the botched handoff to westbrook was the biggest play of the game due to the timing of the play . . so i'm not sure where you are coming from there

Cry, cry, cry. Nowhere do I hear the Eagles crying 'if we didn't fumble we would have won,' so I don't understand where you are coming from. The fact is McNabb did miss the handoff. Sometimes QB's even fumble in the end zone costing their team 7 points in close games. One play doesn't turn a game around. In this case the Eagle's already had the lead. Protect the lead and walk off a winner, don't protect it and lose.

i am not crying; i am just stating the botched handoff to westbrook was the single biggest play of the game . . it was the biggest game-changing play that swung momentum in the game - any real football fan easily acknowledges this. i am not taking away how the cowboys offense performed; they were great, especially their online. their online is the reason they won; romo had time to throw and whitten killed us. but when romo is pressured, he sometimes makes mistakes; just like he did on Monday night - except your online played so well, we rarely got close to romo.

the pass down the seem to whitten after the fumble, was a huge play. but not as big as the botched handoff.

did you even watch the game?? do you know football or are you just spouting off after reading about the game on the net?

[qwunk89]

patsfangr, mcnabb was the reason the eagles were in the game late in the fourth; his peformance carried the offense. referring to the superbowl, he was puking during the final drive which is why he couldn't manage the game; ever try running a two minute drill while barfing all over the field? not easy i imagine. and if you are not familiar with mcnabb, it is something that has bothered him all throughout his career; whenever he plays in high humidity, he usually throws up late in the second half . . it's just his body.

i do agree, he made a few poor decisions on the last drive - not throwing the ball away and not running on the one play he had a huge lane to his right, but it is obvious he is back to form. and once we have brown and curtis back, we will have three quality starting wide receivers for him; something we should have had for him throughout his career. don't forget, mcnabb took the eagles to three straight nfc champioship games with todd pinkston and james thrash as his starting receivers . . yeah, that's right, pinkston and thrash! the one year (with good vibes) mcnabb had TO, the eagles offense was dynamic . . if mcnabb had a moss/burress/TO type to throw to throughout his career . . i can only imagine the results. again i say PINKSTON AND THRASH!! is brady or romo the same player with pinkston and thrash at wideout?

Well, qwunk, I'd have to argue that it is McNabb's heart, and not his body, that has him puking under pressure.

You are aware, I assume that Tom Brady didn't win any of his 3 Super Bowls with Randy Moss as his top receiver, right? He won SB 36 with his top 2 WRs as Troy Brown and David Patten. He won SB 38 with David Givens and Patten. He won SB 30 with Deion Branch and David Givens. Want to check the career statistics of those guys? Other than Brown, who was a superb 3rd down "go to guy", you won't find any of them in line for consideration for the Hall of Fame. It's even unlikely that Troy Brown will make it into anything other than the Patriots HOF, where he's a shoe-in.

Brady has been a winner with game management, and an uncanny ability to make plays in the clutch. His winning drives in all 3 of those SBs are legendary. And he did it again last year; only to have the defense run out of gas, and give it up to the Giants.

Donovan McNabb has consistently produced in "ordinary games", and during first 3-1/2 quarters of many important games. But he has consistently failed in clutch situations. When McNabb is throwing up his lunch; Brady is throwing TD passes. That, and not the quality of their WRs, is the difference between the two.

By the way, did you know that "gunslinger" Romo, recognizing that tendency as his major fault, says that he has studied Tom Brady to learn how to be cool in the pocket. Jaworski, if you noticed, detailed that a bit during the Cowboys-Eagles game.

yes, i agree brady is the top . . he is amazing. and i shouldn't have put him and romo in the same sentence, at least not yet . . and hopefully never. my point was mcnabb had much success with subpar wide receivers. also, go back to mcnabb's early years where he consistently produced in the clutch; 2000 to 2002, when he was able to use his legs and take the game over. since 2002, in huge games against teams with very good, physical defenses, like the nfc championship games, his wide receivers were blanketed and man-handled at the line of scrimmage; in the 2002 championship game ricky manning jr. punked todd pinston so bad at the line he rarely got off the jam and in 2003 tampa bay again took pinkston and thrash out of the game. in 2004, we had TO and things dramatically changed - we didn't need any game winning drives until the superbowl as we were always up big.

while i know brady can look good with receivers off the street (like jabar gaffney), i would rather have Brown, Patten and Branch than Pinkston, Thrash and Freddie "the Peoples Champ" Mitchell - only Thrash is still in the game as a third wideout for the Skins; Pinkston and Mitchell were out of football while still in their 20s.

again, i will admit Brady in the best QB in the NFL, but i will argue Mcnabb meant more to the Eagles offense from 2000 to 2003 than any one player meant to any team's offense; that is how much the eagles put on Mcnabb's shoulders. if Mcnabb had some better receivers in 2002 and 2003, they would have been in more superbowls, very likely with a victory.

recently Mcnabb hasn't come through on game winning drives in the clutch; but still he is the reason we are there to begin with (when healthy); just like he was on Monday night. once brown and curtis come back, and we finally have three starting-caliber wideouts, if needed, he will. #5.

[patsfangr]

yes, i agree brady is the top . . he is amazing. and i shouldn't have put him and romo in the same sentence, at least not yet . . and hopefully never. my point was mcnabb had much success with subpar wide receivers. also, go back to mcnabb's early years where he consistently produced in the clutch; 2000 to 2002, when he was able to use his legs and take the game over. since 2002, in huge games against teams with very good, physical defenses, like the nfc championship games, his wide receivers were blanketed and man-handled at the line of scrimmage; in the 2002 championship game ricky manning jr. punked todd pinston so bad at the line he rarely got off the jam and in 2003 tampa bay again took pinkston and thrash out of the game. in 2004, we had TO and things dramatically changed - we didn't need any game winning drives until the superbowl as we were always up big.

while i know brady can look good with receivers off the street (like jabar gaffney), i would rather have Brown, Patten and Branch than Pinkston, Thrash and Freddie "the Peoples Champ" Mitchell - only Thrash is still in the game as a third wideout for the Skins; Pinkston and Mitchell were out of football while still in their 20s.

again, i will admit Brady in the best QB in the NFL, but i will argue Mcnabb meant more to the Eagles offense from 2000 to 2003 than any one player meant to any team's offense; that is how much the eagles put on Mcnabb's shoulders. if Mcnabb had some better receivers in 2002 and 2003, they would have been in more superbowls, very likely with a victory.

recently Mcnabb hasn't come through on game winning drives in the clutch; but still he is the reason we are there to begin with (when healthy); just like he was on Monday night. once brown and curtis come back, and we finally have three starting-caliber wideouts, if needed, he will. #5.

Despite my criticism of his recent performances, I'm a fan of McNabb. He was trashed by a lot of "experts" when he was drafted, and left them all sucking on thier toes! He certainly could have had better receivers in his early days; but the fact is that he nearly always had a very good defense, a solid OL, and a top running game around him. My bottom line on him is that he's been a better than average QB. I'd rank him at around the #5 -#10 level among his peers, throughout most of his career: a little higher for a couple of years; a little lower for a couple of others.

He's definitely not a QB that any team or fan should be ashamed of. He's had a very good career; and he's always been a solid "team" guy. All I'm saying is that he's not Hall of Fame material.

[huggybear]

Just back from Vegas.

patsfangr-I picked up 200$US on your Pastries over Favree's Jets, easy call, it was actually a "pick-em" at the Hilton's book.

Couldn't believe that MNF game Eagles-Boyz, what a wild game. Bizarre that 14 points in 14 seconds the Boyz handed the Eagles...

[qwunk89]

yes, i agree brady is the top . . he is amazing. and i shouldn't have put him and romo in the same sentence, at least not yet . . and hopefully never. my point was mcnabb had much success with subpar wide receivers. also, go back to mcnabb's early years where he consistently produced in the clutch; 2000 to 2002, when he was able to use his legs and take the game over. since 2002, in huge games against teams with very good, physical defenses, like the nfc championship games, his wide receivers were blanketed and man-handled at the line of scrimmage; in the 2002 championship game ricky manning jr. punked todd pinston so bad at the line he rarely got off the jam and in 2003 tampa bay again took pinkston and thrash out of the game. in 2004, we had TO and things dramatically changed - we didn't need any game winning drives until the superbowl as we were always up big.

while i know brady can look good with receivers off the street (like jabar gaffney), i would rather have Brown, Patten and Branch than Pinkston, Thrash and Freddie "the Peoples Champ" Mitchell - only Thrash is still in the game as a third wideout for the Skins; Pinkston and Mitchell were out of football while still in their 20s.

again, i will admit Brady in the best QB in the NFL, but i will argue Mcnabb meant more to the Eagles offense from 2000 to 2003 than any one player meant to any team's offense; that is how much the eagles put on Mcnabb's shoulders. if Mcnabb had some better receivers in 2002 and 2003, they would have been in more superbowls, very likely with a victory.

recently Mcnabb hasn't come through on game winning drives in the clutch; but still he is the reason we are there to begin with (when healthy); just like he was on Monday night. once brown and curtis come back, and we finally have three starting-caliber wideouts, if needed, he will. #5.

Despite my criticism of his recent performances, I'm a fan of McNabb. He was trashed by a lot of "experts" when he was drafted, and left them all sucking on thier toes! He certainly could have had better receivers in his early days; but the fact is that he nearly always had a very good defense, a solid OL, and a top running game around him. My bottom line on him is that he's been a better than average QB. I'd rank him at around the #5 -#10 level among his peers, throughout most of his career: a little higher for a couple of years; a little lower for a couple of others.

He's definitely not a QB that any team or fan should be ashamed of. He's had a very good career; and he's always been a solid "team" guy. All I'm saying is that he's not Hall of Fame material.

not yet . .

[lomatopo]

A quick search at the TrueVisions site yielded the following two games, replays and Game Day shows/schedule:

(60) TrueSport 2

NFL 2008/2009

005: ARIZONA CARDINALS @ WASHINGTON REDSKINS (22-SEP-2008)

22-ก.ย.-2551 00:00

006: PITTSBURGH STEELERS @ PHILADELPHIA EAGLES (22-SEP-2008)

22-ก.ย.-2551 03:15

(62) TrueSport 4

NFL 2008/2009

004: NEW ENGLAND PATRIOTS @ N.Y. JETS (15-SEP-2008)

20-ก.ย.-2551 15:30

005: ARIZONA CARDINALS @ WASHINGTON REDSKINS (22-SEP-2008)

22-ก.ย.-2551 12:30

006: PITTSBURGH STEELERS @ PHILADELPHIA EAGLES (22-SEP-2008)

22-ก.ย.-2551 15:30

005: ARIZONA CARDINALS @ WASHINGTON REDSKINS (22-SEP-2008)

23-ก.ย.-2551 02:00

005: ARIZONA CARDINALS @ WASHINGTON REDSKINS (22-SEP-2008)

23-ก.ย.-2551 08:00

006: PITTSBURGH STEELERS @ PHILADELPHIA EAGLES (22-SEP-2008)

23-ก.ย.-2551 11:00

005: ARIZONA CARDINALS @ WASHINGTON REDSKINS (22-SEP-2008)

23-ก.ย.-2551 15:30

NFL GAME DAY 2008

002

20-ก.ย.-2551 08:30

002

20-ก.ย.-2551 15:00

002

21-ก.ย.-2551 09:00

[Old Man River]

everyone, including eagles and cowboys fans, pretty much agree the botched handoff to westbrook was the biggest play of the game due to the timing of the play . . so i'm not sure where you are coming from there

Cry, cry, cry. Nowhere do I hear the Eagles crying 'if we didn't fumble we would have won,' so I don't understand where you are coming from. The fact is McNabb did miss the handoff. Sometimes QB's even fumble in the end zone costing their team 7 points in close games. One play doesn't turn a game around. In this case the Eagle's already had the lead. Protect the lead and walk off a winner, don't protect it and lose.

i am not crying; i am just stating the botched handoff to westbrook was the single biggest play of the game . . it was the biggest game-changing play that swung momentum in the game - any real football fan easily acknowledges this. i am not taking away how the cowboys offense performed; they were great, especially their online. their online is the reason they won; romo had time to throw and whitten killed us. but when romo is pressured, he sometimes makes mistakes; just like he did on Monday night - except your online played so well, we rarely got close to romo.

the pass down the seem to whitten after the fumble, was a huge play. but not as big as the botched handoff.

did you even watch the game?? do you know football or are you just spouting off after reading about the game on the net?

Sorry, I thought you were crying about the loss. Don't rub it in that you got to watch it and I didn't. I live in Thailand, where it wasn't televised and my internet connection is rarely strong enough to where I want to spring for Game Pass and then not be able to use.

For some unknown reason both you and Patsfangr assume that without the fumble the Eagles were going to drive down and score and win the game. I don't think they could have. I don't think they are good enough to do that to the Cowboys in a close game at crunch time and guess what, they weren't. Dallas got the ball, drove down and scored and then stuffed the Eagles twice. Did all that happen because of one play? I don't think so, but we will never know.

[huggybear]

I watched it in the states live. The Boyz downfield coverage got better later in the game, causing McNabb to hold onto the ball too long. He didn't want to give up the big interception and got hesitant.

[Old Man River]

I watched it in the states live. The Boyz downfield coverage got better later in the game, causing McNabb to hold onto the ball too long. He didn't want to give up the big interception and got hesitant.

Lucky you! The Poke's have been working hard on their DB's capability, using one of their two top draft choices on Mike Jenkins (the other on Felix Jones) and then going after Pacman.

I am elated that the Cowboy's O-line is coming together. They controlled the Browns and the Eagles and this is with Holland sitting on the bench and Kosar hurt. It will only get better.

[jfchandler]

I live in Thailand, where it wasn't televised and my internet connection is rarely strong enough to where I want to spring for Game Pass and then not be able to use.

Just fyi, the NFL also has a very low-priced all radio broadcasts package available under the Field Pass section. It's $39.95 for the entire season, and listen to any and all radio broadcasts of all NFL games...either live or after-the-fact. You can even choose between the home or away team's broadcast team.

Even if your Internet is not robust enough for streaming video, any decent connection here in LOS ought to be able to handle a simple streaming radio broadcast. It's a pretty reasonably priced alternative that would enable you to not miss any game you want to catch...

http://www.nfl.com/fieldpass

[Jimjim]

Chargers should be 1-1. Horrible call. Absolutely ridiculously, lose the game for the Chargers horrible.

[qwunk89]

everyone, including eagles and cowboys fans, pretty much agree the botched handoff to westbrook was the biggest play of the game due to the timing of the play . . so i'm not sure where you are coming from there

Cry, cry, cry. Nowhere do I hear the Eagles crying 'if we didn't fumble we would have won,' so I don't understand where you are coming from. The fact is McNabb did miss the handoff. Sometimes QB's even fumble in the end zone costing their team 7 points in close games. One play doesn't turn a game around. In this case the Eagle's already had the lead. Protect the lead and walk off a winner, don't protect it and lose.

i am not crying; i am just stating the botched handoff to westbrook was the single biggest play of the game . . it was the biggest game-changing play that swung momentum in the game - any real football fan easily acknowledges this. i am not taking away how the cowboys offense performed; they were great, especially their online. their online is the reason they won; romo had time to throw and whitten killed us. but when romo is pressured, he sometimes makes mistakes; just like he did on Monday night - except your online played so well, we rarely got close to romo.

the pass down the seem to whitten after the fumble, was a huge play. but not as big as the botched handoff.

did you even watch the game?? do you know football or are you just spouting off after reading about the game on the net?

Sorry, I thought you were crying about the loss. Don't rub it in that you got to watch it and I didn't. I live in Thailand, where it wasn't televised and my internet connection is rarely strong enough to where I want to spring for Game Pass and then not be able to use.

For some unknown reason both you and Patsfangr assume that without the fumble the Eagles were going to drive down and score and win the game. I don't think they could have. I don't think they are good enough to do that to the Cowboys in a close game at crunch time and guess what, they weren't. Dallas got the ball, drove down and scored and then stuffed the Eagles twice. Did all that happen because of one play? I don't think so, but we will never know.

i'm not rubbing it in that you didn't get to watch the game . . but you mean to tell me all your debating comes from reading about it on the internet? talk about reading the cliff notes and pretending you dissected the game film . .

[huggybear]

Chargers should be 1-1. Horrible call. Absolutely ridiculously, lose the game for the Chargers horrible.

2nd year in a row, the officials handed one to Denver in Denver the second weekend. Last year my Raiders won the game with a field goal as time expired, then the officials claim Denver called a timeout (BS). Kicker missed on the second one, Denver won in overtime.

This year the call was equally as ludicrous, nobody heard the whistle, game should have been over.

[qwunk89]

hey patsfangr,

i came across this article today that covers our discussion - found it interesting. mentions brady to and highlights some of your points, defends some on mine. http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles...play_issue.html

time to move onto week 3 . .

[Old Man River]

i'm not rubbing it in that you didn't get to watch the game . . but you mean to tell me all your debating comes from reading about it on the internet? talk about reading the cliff notes and pretending you dissected the game film . .

Yeh, imagine that. I have to rely on comments of players who played the game and experts who dissect the game instead of Eagle fans who find excuses. I guess you and the people you talk to are the real experts. My mistake.

[Old Man River]

Chargers should be 1-1. Horrible call. Absolutely ridiculously, lose the game for the Chargers horrible.

2nd year in a row, the officials handed one to Denver in Denver the second weekend. Last year my Raiders won the game with a field goal as time expired, then the officials claim Denver called a timeout (BS). Kicker missed on the second one, Denver won in overtime.

This year the call was equally as ludicrous, nobody heard the whistle, game should have been over.

I thought it interesting that Jerry Jones opened up on Hochuli as well. Apparently there is a lot of anger against this guy that doesn't get publicized until he blows one that everyone can see.

[Old Man River]

I live in Thailand, where it wasn't televised and my internet connection is rarely strong enough to where I want to spring for Game Pass and then not be able to use.

Just fyi, the NFL also has a very low-priced all radio broadcasts package available under the Field Pass section. It's $39.95 for the entire season, and listen to any and all radio broadcasts of all NFL games...either live or after-the-fact. You can even choose between the home or away team's broadcast team.

Even if your Internet is not robust enough for streaming video, any decent connection here in LOS ought to be able to handle a simple streaming radio broadcast. It's a pretty reasonably priced alternative that would enable you to not miss any game you want to catch...

http://www.nfl.com/fieldpass

Thanks for this. I have listened to some of the college games here in the past. The streaming video has been a nightmare.

[Uros]

As for Romo, he gives and he takes away. Still, very much a premier QB. I think it funny that people still ask if he is for real. Ask the Eagles.

Still? Romo never has been more than just a promising kid with a strong arm. He needs to keep his inner Grossman in check as he still just as likely to lose the game with bonehead plays and mistakes than win it with brilliance. I will reconsider my impression of him if he ever wins a playoff game to start with.

Let's see. In his last 18 games as a starter, he has won 15. I guess that is not good enough.

I guess I missed it. Which team are you rooting for? I want to see the standard you are holding Romo against.

In his last two seasons as a starter in the playoffs he is 0-2. Both games lost due to his mistakes. To be considered a premier QB in this league you have to deliver when the season is on the line. He has choked every time.

I am holding him to the premier QB standard. Brady or Manning come to mind. IMO there aren't many as it is such a difficult position to play.

Which team I root for? Ha! Da Bears LOL. So as you see I know a lot about bad QBs.

[Old Man River]

As for Romo, he gives and he takes away. Still, very much a premier QB. I think it funny that people still ask if he is for real. Ask the Eagles.

Still? Romo never has been more than just a promising kid with a strong arm. He needs to keep his inner Grossman in check as he still just as likely to lose the game with bonehead plays and mistakes than win it with brilliance. I will reconsider my impression of him if he ever wins a playoff game to start with.

Let's see. In his last 18 games as a starter, he has won 15. I guess that is not good enough.

I guess I missed it. Which team are you rooting for? I want to see the standard you are holding Romo against.

In his last two seasons as a starter in the playoffs he is 0-2. Both games lost due to his mistakes. To be considered a premier QB in this league you have to deliver when the season is on the line. He has choked every time.

I am holding him to the premier QB standard. Brady or Manning come to mind. IMO there aren't many as it is such a difficult position to play.

Which team I root for? Ha! Da Bears LOL. So as you see I know a lot about bad QBs.

At least you are not using the Grossman standard.

For me, a loss is a loss and no one play or player is the culprit. However, for the record, pretty much the consensus from what I have read on the loss to the Giants was due to dropped passes. I did see this game, but of course seeing the game doesn't make me an expert unlike some others, which is why I like to read post game reports by people who actually do that for a living.

Romo will never change. He will continue to force plays, because that is his nature. He is constantly trying to make something happen. Still, week in and week out he is one of the best QB's in the NFL and I really haven't talked to a Cowboy fan who isn't happy he is on "our" team. I suspect a lot of fans of other teams would love to have him playing for their team as well.

By the way, Romo does not have a strong arm as you mentioned. In fact, it is one of the weakest among QB's in the NFL. He has a very quick release, but if you look closely you will see he short arms his passes. His strength is his accuracy which is what often gets him in trouble because he thinks he can complete passes that he should throw away.

[patsfangr]

hey patsfangr,

i came across this article today that covers our discussion - found it interesting. mentions brady to and highlights some of your points, defends some on mine. http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles...play_issue.html

time to move onto week 3 . .

Thanks for the link, qwunk. As you said, support provided for both my views and yours regarding McNabb. Every knowledgable NFL fan realizes that the QB is never totally responsible for either wins or losses. But I base my opinions on McNabb upon the specifics of what I've seen HIM do during plays in crunch time. He has, IMO, made a lot more poor decisions, and poor physical moves, than is expected of a great QB. Brady, OTOH, has made a lot more that go the other way. Same was true of Unitas, Staubach, and Montana. They all made it happen, even when it appeared that it wasn't there, in critical times, in big games.

[Old Man River]

hey patsfangr,

i came across this article today that covers our discussion - found it interesting. mentions brady to and highlights some of your points, defends some on mine. http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles...play_issue.html

time to move onto week 3 . .

Thanks for the link, qwunk. As you said, support provided for both my views and yours regarding McNabb. Every knowledgable NFL fan realizes that the QB is never totally responsible for either wins or losses. But I base my opinions on McNabb upon the specifics of what I've seen HIM do during plays in crunch time. He has, IMO, made a lot more poor decisions, and poor physical moves, than is expected of a great QB. Brady, OTOH, has made a lot more that go the other way. Same was true of Unitas, Staubach, and Montana. They all made it happen, even when it appeared that it wasn't there, in critical times, in big games.

Here is an interesting article from the Philadelphia Enquirer that supports your position that you might be interested in.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2008...play_issue.html

[Old Man River]

hey patsfangr,

i came across this article today that covers our discussion - found it interesting. mentions brady to and highlights some of your points, defends some on mine. http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eagles...play_issue.html

time to move onto week 3 . .

Thanks for the link, qwunk. As you said, support provided for both my views and yours regarding McNabb. Every knowledgable NFL fan realizes that the QB is never totally responsible for either wins or losses. But I base my opinions on McNabb upon the specifics of what I've seen HIM do during plays in crunch time. He has, IMO, made a lot more poor decisions, and poor physical moves, than is expected of a great QB. Brady, OTOH, has made a lot more that go the other way. Same was true of Unitas, Staubach, and Montana. They all made it happen, even when it appeared that it wasn't there, in critical times, in big games.

Here is an interesting article from the Philadelphia Enquirer that supports your position that you might be interested in.

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/sports/2008...play_issue.html

Interesting. Different url, same article. Anyway, it is an interesting article no matter how many times you read it.

[Calico]

When my hometown Panthers face the Vikings, will Gus Frerotte headbutt another wall? It's something I do in Thailand every day.

[qwunk89]

i'm not rubbing it in that you didn't get to watch the game . . but you mean to tell me all your debating comes from reading about it on the internet? talk about reading the cliff notes and pretending you dissected the game film . .

Yeh, imagine that. I have to rely on comments of players who played the game and experts who dissect the game instead of Eagle fans who find excuses. I guess you and the people you talk to are the real experts. My mistake.

np, don't let it happen again . . i'm still waiting for some evidence of players or expert analysts who say the botched handoff to westbrook wasn't the most crucial play of the game. also, if you watched the game, you would probably agree . .

here is one of your experts, peter king from SI:

"All that stood between them and beating the best team in football on the road was a botched Donovan McNabb-to-Brian Westbrook handoff with nine minutes left at the Dallas 33, trying to expand on a three-point lead. That's a once- or twice-a-year event, that kind of stupid play, and it shouldn't take away from what the Eagles showed the country in a scintillating football game."

again, it's not an excuse, just what happened. i will say peter king goes a little over when saying "all that stood between them" - Dallas would have had some time left.

enough of this; i'm not debating plays with someone who hasn't watched the game and formed his own opinions . . onto week 3!

Edited September 20, 2008 by qwunk89

[Old Man River]

i'm not rubbing it in that you didn't get to watch the game . . but you mean to tell me all your debating comes from reading about it on the internet? talk about reading the cliff notes and pretending you dissected the game film . .

Yeh, imagine that. I have to rely on comments of players who played the game and experts who dissect the game instead of Eagle fans who find excuses. I guess you and the people you talk to are the real experts. My mistake.

np, don't let it happen again . . i'm still waiting for some evidence of players or expert analysts who say the botched handoff to westbrook wasn't the most crucial play of the game. also, if you watched the game, you would probably agree . .

here is one of your experts, peter king from SI:

"All that stood between them and beating the best team in football on the road was a botched Donovan McNabb-to-Brian Westbrook handoff with nine minutes left at the Dallas 33, trying to expand on a three-point lead. That's a once- or twice-a-year event, that kind of stupid play, and it shouldn't take away from what the Eagles showed the country in a scintillating football game."

again, it's not an excuse, just what happened. i will say peter king goes a little over when saying "all that stood between them" - Dallas would have had some time left.

enough of this; i'm not debating plays with someone who hasn't watched the game and formed his own opinions . . onto week 3!

No problem although I am at a loss as to why, since you live in the US and have access to games that most of us don't around the world, you would come on a Thailand forum and make comments that only those that can watch the games can discuss them. Do you also go into Latin American forums and make the same claims?

[GangsterOfLove]

If you guys happen to miss any games, you can download the games with torrents at tenyardtorrents.com. The torrents don't work for me for some odd reason, but they're apparently working for others at the site.