Police Arrest 5 Suspects For Grenade Attacks In Chiang Mai, Bangkok

[rubl]

There is an amazing amount of silence from a select group of members on this thread

Color me surprised

Not really surprising,

they only come into fights they have half a chance of winning,

or at least sowing the seeds of confusion and propaganda,

and this one is so far beyond real 'redemption by spin', that most say nothing,

and some await orders on what to say.

You really are insulting.

Do you do it to provoke ?

No names are named, only general suggestions. Why would someone feel insulted? Does the shoe fit?

I've been called a hypocrite and someone who doesn't like to admit the truth by someone, should I be insulted?

If no names are named, who has a valid reason to complain ? Only those who feel targeted?

Dear philw, stay cool, keep smiling and try to give as good as (you think) you get.

[Buchholz]

Late Maj-Gen Khattiya's aide arrested for firing M-79 grenades at BTS station

BANGKOK, Dec 22 - Thailand's Department of Special Investigation (DSI) on Wednesday said it has arrested a close aide of the late Maj-Gen Khattiya Swasdipol for allegedly firing M79 grenades into Bangkok's prime Silom commercial district during the Red Shirt demonstrations and will seek court approval to further detain the suspect tomorrow.

DSI director-general Tharit Pengdit said 29-year-old James Singsit, a former Thai Army Ranger with an outstanding warrant on terrorism-related charges, was arrested Tuesday evening in the Chaeng Wattana area.

Initially the accused denied all charges but investigation reported that he was a military veteran and a member of an armed group formed by the late Gen Khattiya, also known as "Seh Daeng," according to the DSI chief.

Mr Tharit stated that Mr James was among those who fired M-79 grenades in the Silom-Saladaeng area during the anti-government protest by the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) in April and May.

He was suspected of firing M-79 grenades at so-called multi-coloured group demonstrators at Saladaeng crossroads.

Investigation of the case is complete and was forwarded for the prosecutor's consideration Dec 3, said Mr Tharit. A further report on Mr James will be added to the report earlier submitted to the prosecutor.

Mr Tharit said the department will seek Criminal Court approval to further detain the suspect on Thursday and will oppose any bail bid as the suspect is considered a key hardliner and likely to try to escape prosecution.

The DSI chief said he believed that Mr James' arrest will reduce violence in Bangkok, while saying that his department continues searching for other terrorism-related suspects who are still at large.

As the state of emergency has been lifted, Mr Tharit also reaffirmed this has no impact on the detention of Red Shirt leaders and their allies as their offenses are considered substantive offences and they must be detained until their detention terms expire.

He said the Cabinet asked the DSI to discuss with the attorney general and national police bureau about the possible temporary release of detained 104 Red Shirts.

The three agencies will consider not opposing bail bids by detainees who are not key figures of the movement and only committed minor offenses, but whether they will be granted bail or not depends on the court's decision.

For the key Red Shirt leaders whom the department had earlier objected having bail, DSI must consult the investigators and related agencies again as to whether it should oppose the move.

-- TNA 2010-12-22

[Buchholz]

Although some army personel may have been killed by gunshots (some friendly fire as well), the army colonel with staff had some grenades lopped on them, the lady at BTS Saladaeng died from a grenade attack.

I'm implying that most killed are shot (by either reds, blacks, army) and some died from grenade attacks.

Somehow it seems no red-shirts died from RPG/M79 grenades. How curious !

Thanks for the reminder that the actions of the latest Red bomber to be arrested resulted in death at BTS Saladaeng.

The list of Reds directly attributable for deaths continues to grow for this democracy movement.

.

Edited December 23, 2010 by Buchholz

[Pi Sek]

Isn't this the same attack that was made by 'government forces' from Chulalongkorn hospital? It makes a lot more sense now that Seh Daeng was so much more intent on closing this hospital than Natthawut, Suporn, etc.

It also adds weight to any claim that Seh Daeng was actually snipered by 'Red forces'... although there's still a strong argument for both sides.

I'm sorry if this rubs some people up the wrong way, but the Red Shirts generally wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face - which, including hitting them elsewhere, is exactly what happened in May.

[Buchholz]

The other paper is identifying the Red Shirt Guard as Gems Singsith and links him with a number of M79 grenade attacks.

They also post his photo in their article.

.

[Buchholz]

Thai former ranger arrested for grenade attacks

A former para-military ranger was arrested Wednesday for allegedly firing M79 grenades at a skytrain station in central Bangkok and other spots in May during "red- shirt" protest. Gems Singsith, 29, was wanted under an arrest warrant on terrorism charges. He was taken to the office of the Department of Special Investigation (DSI) where he was interrogated by officials from the Special Branch police, the army, and National Security Council.

The man would later be taken to the Criminal Court in order to seek approval for detention. Gems, a native to northeastern Si Sa Ket province, is a former ranger who joined protests of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), or "red-shirts," between March and May. He became "red-shirt" guard and had close relations with Maj Gen Khattiya Sawasdipol, who allegedly set up hard-core militias to fight against security-forces.

Gems is suspected to be one of Maj Gen Khattiya's men who launched M79s at Sala Daeng skytrain station and at anti-UDD demonstrators near Sala Daeng intersection, a central business area, in May.

http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/90001/90777/90851/7239672.html

Xinhua - December 22, 2010

[Emptyset]

Isn't this the same attack that was made by 'government forces' from Chulalongkorn hospital? It makes a lot more sense now that Seh Daeng was so much more intent on closing this hospital than Natthawut, Suporn, etc.

It also adds weight to any claim that Seh Daeng was actually snipered by 'Red forces'... although there's still a strong argument for both sides.

I'm sorry if this rubs some people up the wrong way, but the Red Shirts generally wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face - which, including hitting them elsewhere, is exactly what happened in May.

Agree that it was almost certainly red shirt militants who attacked Silom, but how does that have anything to do with closing the hospital? And how does it "add weight" to the claim that Seh Daeng was snipered by his own side? Can't say it does either, I already thought it was most likely reds from day one and I never thought for a second that Seh Daeng was killed by his own side. Although, if he was, it'd surely be a good thing as they were taking out the guy that was doing most to screw things up for the moderate leaders?

[Pi Sek]

Isn't this the same attack that was made by 'government forces' from Chulalongkorn hospital? It makes a lot more sense now that Seh Daeng was so much more intent on closing this hospital than Natthawut, Suporn, etc.

It also adds weight to any claim that Seh Daeng was actually snipered by 'Red forces'... although there's still a strong argument for both sides.

I'm sorry if this rubs some people up the wrong way, but the Red Shirts generally wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face - which, including hitting them elsewhere, is exactly what happened in May.

Agree that it was almost certainly red shirt militants who attacked Silom, but how does that have anything to do with closing the hospital? And how does it "add weight" to the claim that Seh Daeng was snipered by his own side? Can't say it does either, I already thought it was most likely reds from day one and I never thought for a second that Seh Daeng was killed by his own side. Although, if he was, it'd surely be a good thing as they were taking out the guy that was doing most to screw things up for the moderate leaders?

Well, originally when the M79 attacks were vaguely caught on camera, and initial CRES reports suggested that the grenades were fired from Lumpini Park, some were saying that the grenades looked like they were coming from Chula hospital. Payap said he had seen soldiers in Chula hospital (soldiers or Seh Daeng's men on a secret mission?), that's why he invaded it.

Seh Daeng's assassination is a very tricky one as I'm sure you agree. I don't know what happened, just like everyone else. But the divide between Natthawut and Thaksin was quite clear. From my own personal account on the day before he was shot...

General Seh Daeng was often sighted at the front lines of the Red Shirt rally site, supervising construction of the petrol-soaked barriers made of tyres and sharpened bamboo stakes. He was complaining of the Red Shirt leaders’ apathy towards what the Red Shirts really wanted – an immediate dissolution of the House of Representatives. He claimed there was a split with, in his words, ‘the doves’ (Veera, Dr. Weng, Natthawut and Jatuporn) wanting to accept Abhisit’s roadmap and ‘the hawks’ (Arisaman, Kwanchai and Suporn) opposing it and wanting to ‘fight to the death’ in a prolonged and intensified protest.

He also stated that the Red Shirt leaders wanted him to leave as he said they were unhappy with his branding of the Red Shirt leaders as ‘being weak’ but, he said, Thaksin was the only person who could tell him whether to stay or go; he said that Thaksin had told him that morning that Arisaman was to be the next leader of the Red Shirt movement. Natthawut said on stage that Thaksin did not have authority to replace the Red Shirt leaders.

With specific regard to your question "how does it add weight to the claim that Seh Daeng was snipered by his own side", this arrest suggests that the Red leadership (certainly Payap!) had no idea what Seh Daeng and his team were up to. (Again, this only shoots down the argument of some anti-reds that the various factions of the Red Shirt movement were all in the same idealogical boat - they weren't.) A maveric soldier with a record of mental/personality problems and violence, as you correctly point out, was doing the most to screw things up for the moderate leaders... and even the less moderate leaders didn't want him to be so vocally open about violent actions on the part of the movement. Even Thaksin can't have approved of Seh Daeng's open calls to fight to the death... he's a politician after all.

[Emptyset]

Isn't this the same attack that was made by 'government forces' from Chulalongkorn hospital? It makes a lot more sense now that Seh Daeng was so much more intent on closing this hospital than Natthawut, Suporn, etc.

It also adds weight to any claim that Seh Daeng was actually snipered by 'Red forces'... although there's still a strong argument for both sides.

I'm sorry if this rubs some people up the wrong way, but the Red Shirts generally wouldn't know the truth if it slapped them in the face - which, including hitting them elsewhere, is exactly what happened in May.

Agree that it was almost certainly red shirt militants who attacked Silom, but how does that have anything to do with closing the hospital? And how does it "add weight" to the claim that Seh Daeng was snipered by his own side? Can't say it does either, I already thought it was most likely reds from day one and I never thought for a second that Seh Daeng was killed by his own side. Although, if he was, it'd surely be a good thing as they were taking out the guy that was doing most to screw things up for the moderate leaders?

Well, originally when the M79 attacks were vaguely caught on camera, and initial CRES reports suggested that the grenades were fired from Lumpini Park, some were saying that the grenades looked like they were coming from Chula hospital. Payap said he had seen soldiers in Chula hospital (soldiers or Seh Daeng's men on a secret mission?), that's why he invaded it.

Seh Daeng's assassination is a very tricky one as I'm sure you agree. I don't know what happened, just like everyone else. But the divide between Natthawut and Thaksin was quite clear. From my own personal account on the day before he was shot...

General Seh Daeng was often sighted at the front lines of the Red Shirt rally site, supervising construction of the petrol-soaked barriers made of tyres and sharpened bamboo stakes. He was complaining of the Red Shirt leaders' apathy towards what the Red Shirts really wanted – an immediate dissolution of the House of Representatives. He claimed there was a split with, in his words, 'the doves' (Veera, Dr. Weng, Natthawut and Jatuporn) wanting to accept Abhisit's roadmap and 'the hawks' (Arisaman, Kwanchai and Suporn) opposing it and wanting to 'fight to the death' in a prolonged and intensified protest.

He also stated that the Red Shirt leaders wanted him to leave as he said they were unhappy with his branding of the Red Shirt leaders as 'being weak' but, he said, Thaksin was the only person who could tell him whether to stay or go; he said that Thaksin had told him that morning that Arisaman was to be the next leader of the Red Shirt movement. Natthawut said on stage that Thaksin did not have authority to replace the Red Shirt leaders.

With specific regard to your question "how does it add weight to the claim that Seh Daeng was snipered by his own side", this arrest suggests that the Red leadership (certainly Payap!) had no idea what Seh Daeng and his team were up to. (Again, this only shoots down the argument of some anti-reds that the various factions of the Red Shirt movement were all in the same idealogical boat - they weren't.) A maveric soldier with a record of mental/personality problems and violence, as you correctly point out, was doing the most to screw things up for the moderate leaders... and even the less moderate leaders didn't want him to be so vocally open about violent actions on the part of the movement. Even Thaksin can't have approved of Seh Daeng's open calls to fight to the death... he's a politician after all.

Yes... initially when Silom was attacked Suthep said he had footage that showed it came from Lumpini but none was forthcoming (well, I haven't seen it yet, has anyone else?). Then Porntip said she'd found some evidence it came from Chula and some reds said they'd seen suspicious activity in there, soldiers etc. Well I don't know about that but I don't believe the shot came Chula, it's more likely to have come from Lumpini - because it seems a more difficult shot from Chula and also why would Chula allow red militants inside? It's hard to believe they could get inside without the hospital staff knowing.

Anyway, though you're right that I think the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing with the red shirts, I still think Seh Daeng was shot by the army as revenge for what happened at Kok Wua. Apparently there was a meeting between UDD leaders before the protests began where they openly discussed the idea of armed militants and rejected it. Veera and Dr Weng were supposedly particularly against the idea, Veera said it'd make them as bad as the other side and would turn people against them. Though, of course, Seh Daeng etc still got involved. Like I said, I think Seh Daeng was shot in revenge for Col Romklao, even though he says he didn't do it. Seh Daeng had a few screws loose, as you note, and I really think he was more a front & distraction for those who were really behind the violence on April 10th. But I do think those "men in black" after April 10th were just ordinary red shirt guards that were trained by Seh Daeng.

The April 10th violence, however, I strongly believe was planned by a committee which included a few retired generals, namely Panlop, Manoon and Chavalit, but moreover some prominent class 10 generals opposed to Prayuth. I'm pretty sure Seh Daeng didn't know about it (why would they tell him? if they had it'd be all over the media before it happened) and the red shirt leaders certainly didn't and in some cases maybe still don't, they had to look "natural" on stage. The plan was to create a bloodbath that lead to immediate house dissolution. Prawit phoned Somchai W to tell him that he and Abhisit agreed to immediate house dissolution if they stopped the violence. That's why the plan was cut short... house dissolution didn't happen though because the order came from "above" not to do it. Apparently Chavalit convinced the others not to try anything else after that because he thought it'd lead to civil war. Of course, these are just rumours.

[Pi Sek]

Anyway, though you're right that I think the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing with the red shirts, I still think Seh Daeng was shot by the army as revenge for what happened at Kok Wua.

Actually, so do I... but as I said earlier, there are strong arguments for both sides.

The April 10th violence, however, I strongly believe was planned by a committee which included a few retired generals, namely Panlop, Manoon and Chavalit, but moreover some prominent class 10 generals opposed to Prayuth. I'm pretty sure Seh Daeng didn't know about it (why would they tell him? if they had it'd be all over the media before it happened) and the red shirt leaders certainly didn't and in some cases maybe still don't, they had to look "natural" on stage. The plan was to create a bloodbath that lead to immediate house dissolution. Prawit phoned Somchai W to tell him that he and Abhisit agreed to immediate house dissolution if they stopped the violence. That's why the plan was cut short... house dissolution didn't happen though because the order came from "above" not to do it. Apparently Chavalit convinced the others not to try anything else after that because he thought it'd lead to civil war. Of course, these are just rumours.

Again we are in agreement here (mostly!). I think Seh Daeng DID know about though. From my same personal account as mentioned above...

20 civilians and 5 soldiers died and there were over 800 injuries in the April 10 bloodshed. The next day General Seh Daeng, whom Thaksin had offered the post of “Commander” of the underground Red Shirt armed militia (which he publicly turned down), returned from a meeting with Thaksin in Dubai and gloated that the Black Shirt warriors came to defend the Red Shirts, and their superior tactics and training caused the military losses; although he accepted no personal responsibility.

[Emptyset]

Anyway, though you're right that I think the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing with the red shirts, I still think Seh Daeng was shot by the army as revenge for what happened at Kok Wua.

Actually, so do I... but as I said earlier, there are strong arguments for both sides.

The April 10th violence, however, I strongly believe was planned by a committee which included a few retired generals, namely Panlop, Manoon and Chavalit, but moreover some prominent class 10 generals opposed to Prayuth. I'm pretty sure Seh Daeng didn't know about it (why would they tell him? if they had it'd be all over the media before it happened) and the red shirt leaders certainly didn't and in some cases maybe still don't, they had to look "natural" on stage. The plan was to create a bloodbath that lead to immediate house dissolution. Prawit phoned Somchai W to tell him that he and Abhisit agreed to immediate house dissolution if they stopped the violence. That's why the plan was cut short... house dissolution didn't happen though because the order came from "above" not to do it. Apparently Chavalit convinced the others not to try anything else after that because he thought it'd lead to civil war. Of course, these are just rumours.

Again we are in agreement here (mostly!). I think Seh Daeng DID know about though. From my same personal account as mentioned above...

20 civilians and 5 soldiers died and there were over 800 injuries in the April 10 bloodshed. The next day General Seh Daeng, whom Thaksin had offered the post of "Commander" of the underground Red Shirt armed militia (which he publicly turned down), returned from a meeting with Thaksin in Dubai and gloated that the Black Shirt warriors came to defend the Red Shirts, and their superior tactics and training caused the military losses; although he accepted no personal responsibility.

Yeah, he might've known before actually, but your account doesn't necessarily prove he did. He could've been told after and "gloated" about it. Anyway, it doesn't change the substance of what happened. I'm only of the opinion that they didn't tell him before because they considered him a bit of a fool and certainly he had a loose mouth.

[rubl]

Agree that it was almost certainly red shirt militants who attacked Silom, but how does that have anything to do with closing the hospital? And how does it "add weight" to the claim that Seh Daeng was snipered by his own side? Can't say it does either, I already thought it was most likely reds from day one and I never thought for a second that Seh Daeng was killed by his own side. Although, if he was, it'd surely be a good thing as they were taking out the guy that was doing most to screw things up for the moderate leaders?

Well, originally when the M79 attacks were vaguely caught on camera, and initial CRES reports suggested that the grenades were fired from Lumpini Park, some were saying that the grenades looked like they were coming from Chula hospital. Payap said he had seen soldiers in Chula hospital (soldiers or Seh Daeng's men on a secret mission?), that's why he invaded it.

Seh Daeng's assassination is a very tricky one as I'm sure you agree. I don't know what happened, just like everyone else. But the divide between Natthawut and Thaksin was quite clear. From my own personal account on the day before he was shot...

General Seh Daeng was often sighted at the front lines of the Red Shirt rally site, supervising construction of the petrol-soaked barriers made of tyres and sharpened bamboo stakes. He was complaining of the Red Shirt leaders' apathy towards what the Red Shirts really wanted � an immediate dissolution of the House of Representatives. He claimed there was a split with, in his words, 'the doves' (Veera, Dr. Weng, Natthawut and Jatuporn) wanting to accept Abhisit's roadmap and 'the hawks' (Arisaman, Kwanchai and Suporn) opposing it and wanting to 'fight to the death' in a prolonged and intensified protest.

He also stated that the Red Shirt leaders wanted him to leave as he said they were unhappy with his branding of the Red Shirt leaders as 'being weak' but, he said, Thaksin was the only person who could tell him whether to stay or go; he said that Thaksin had told him that morning that Arisaman was to be the next leader of the Red Shirt movement. Natthawut said on stage that Thaksin did not have authority to replace the Red Shirt leaders.

With specific regard to your question "how does it add weight to the claim that Seh Daeng was snipered by his own side", this arrest suggests that the Red leadership (certainly Payap!) had no idea what Seh Daeng and his team were up to. (Again, this only shoots down the argument of some anti-reds that the various factions of the Red Shirt movement were all in the same idealogical boat - they weren't.) A maveric soldier with a record of mental/personality problems and violence, as you correctly point out, was doing the most to screw things up for the moderate leaders... and even the less moderate leaders didn't want him to be so vocally open about violent actions on the part of the movement. Even Thaksin can't have approved of Seh Daeng's open calls to fight to the death... he's a politician after all.

Yes... initially when Silom was attacked Suthep said he had footage that showed it came from Lumpini but none was forthcoming (well, I haven't seen it yet, has anyone else?). Then Porntip said she'd found some evidence it came from Chula and some reds said they'd seen suspicious activity in there, soldiers etc. Well I don't know about that but I don't believe the shot came Chula, it's more likely to have come from Lumpini - because it seems a more difficult shot from Chula and also why would Chula allow red militants inside? It's hard to believe they could get inside without the hospital staff knowing.

Anyway, though you're right that I think the left hand didn't know what the right hand was doing with the red shirts, I still think Seh Daeng was shot by the army as revenge for what happened at Kok Wua. Apparently there was a meeting between UDD leaders before the protests began where they openly discussed the idea of armed militants and rejected it. Veera and Dr Weng were supposedly particularly against the idea, Veera said it'd make them as bad as the other side and would turn people against them. Though, of course, Seh Daeng etc still got involved. Like I said, I think Seh Daeng was shot in revenge for Col Romklao, even though he says he didn't do it. Seh Daeng had a few screws loose, as you note, and I really think he was more a front & distraction for those who were really behind the violence on April 10th. But I do think those "men in black" after April 10th were just ordinary red shirt guards that were trained by Seh Daeng.

The April 10th violence, however, I strongly believe was planned by a committee which included a few retired generals, namely Panlop, Manoon and Chavalit, but moreover some prominent class 10 generals opposed to Prayuth. I'm pretty sure Seh Daeng didn't know about it (why would they tell him? if they had it'd be all over the media before it happened) and the red shirt leaders certainly didn't and in some cases maybe still don't, they had to look "natural" on stage. The plan was to create a bloodbath that lead to immediate house dissolution. Prawit phoned Somchai W to tell him that he and Abhisit agreed to immediate house dissolution if they stopped the violence. That's why the plan was cut short... house dissolution didn't happen though because the order came from "above" not to do it. Apparently Chavalit convinced the others not to try anything else after that because he thought it'd lead to civil war. Of course, these are just rumours.

The April 10th violence seems planned indeed. By whom is unknown. No need to repeat some what you yourself describe as 'just rumours'. It distracts from the fact that UDD leaders have acknowledged a militant faction to have helped.

There seems to be substance in the renegade general Seh Daeng being involved with or without UDD leaders in the know.

[Emptyset]

The April 10th violence seems planned indeed. By whom is unknown. No need to repeat some what you yourself describe as 'just rumours'. It distracts from the fact that UDD leaders have acknowledged a militant faction to have helped.

There seems to be substance in the renegade general Seh Daeng being involved with or without UDD leaders in the know.

Actually, to me this is fact as I trust the person who told me as he's close to some of those involved. But I can't prove it isn't just rumours, so I'm not going to present it as fact. I don't see why it distracts from the fact that UDD leaders acknowledged that a militant faction "helped" (in fact I don't think they "helped" at all, I think they got people killed unnecessarily and it was a power play for their own gain - entirely self-serving, absolutely nothing to do with democracy), I mean there was far too much evidence for them to deny it. I personally think Seh Daeng wasn't involved with April 10th, but can't give you any evidence for that. However, I've already made clear I think he was a dangerous lunatic who hindered the red cause more than helped it.

[rubl]

The April 10th violence seems planned indeed. By whom is unknown. No need to repeat some what you yourself describe as 'just rumours'. It distracts from the fact that UDD leaders have acknowledged a militant faction to have helped.

There seems to be substance in the renegade general Seh Daeng being involved with or without UDD leaders in the know.

Actually, to me this is fact as I trust the person who told me as he's close to some of those involved. But I can't prove it isn't just rumours, so I'm not going to present it as fact. I don't see why it distracts from the fact that UDD leaders acknowledged that a militant faction "helped" (in fact I don't think they "helped" at all, I think they got people killed unnecessarily and it was a power play for their own gain - entirely self-serving, absolutely nothing to do with democracy), I mean there was far too much evidence for them to deny it. I personally think Seh Daeng wasn't involved with April 10th, but can't give you any evidence for that. However, I've already made clear I think he was a dangerous lunatic who hindered the red cause more than helped it.

To suggest a few retired generals including k. Chavalit planned the April 10th massacre shifts blame from the UDD leaders to others who happened to be army although retired. The same army vilified for exchanging gunfire with unarmed protesters. That's the distraction.

Someone close to those involved told you, right. Rumour also has it they're not on Santa's list of 'nice boys', no presents this year. Don't know about you, may be an empty set.

[phiphidon]

To suggest a few retired generals including k. Chavalit planned the April 10th massacre shifts blame from the UDD leaders to others who happened to be army although retired. The same army vilified for exchanging gunfire with unarmed protesters. That's the distraction.

Someone close to those involved told you, right. Rumour also has it they're not on Santa's list of 'nice boys', no presents this year. Don't know about you, may be an empty set.

The Army isn't "all for one and one for all" though is it - there are splits and factions within, as demonstrated by Gen Prayuths sidewise movement of alleged red shirt sympathysing army personnel; so as far as conspiracy theories go, this may have wings,as they say.

[Emptyset]

The April 10th violence seems planned indeed. By whom is unknown. No need to repeat some what you yourself describe as 'just rumours'. It distracts from the fact that UDD leaders have acknowledged a militant faction to have helped.

There seems to be substance in the renegade general Seh Daeng being involved with or without UDD leaders in the know.

Actually, to me this is fact as I trust the person who told me as he's close to some of those involved. But I can't prove it isn't just rumours, so I'm not going to present it as fact. I don't see why it distracts from the fact that UDD leaders acknowledged that a militant faction "helped" (in fact I don't think they "helped" at all, I think they got people killed unnecessarily and it was a power play for their own gain - entirely self-serving, absolutely nothing to do with democracy), I mean there was far too much evidence for them to deny it. I personally think Seh Daeng wasn't involved with April 10th, but can't give you any evidence for that. However, I've already made clear I think he was a dangerous lunatic who hindered the red cause more than helped it.

To suggest a few retired generals including k. Chavalit planned the April 10th massacre shifts blame from the UDD leaders to others who happened to be army although retired. The same army vilified for exchanging gunfire with unarmed protesters. That's the distraction.

Someone close to those involved told you, right. Rumour also has it they're not on Santa's list of 'nice boys', no presents this year. Don't know about you, may be an empty set.

Right, so it's a distraction to say that the military in general is a problem? Anyway, obviously I can't prove that it's true or even that someone told me this, could've just made it all up off the top of my head, of course. But if you believe that Thaksin has no supporters in the military (at very high levels) and some key players in the military hierarchy aren't angry with Prayuth & Burapha Phayak being given all the good stuff, then I feel you're distracted. Honestly, I've been told I'm delusional for thinking it's a "people's struggle" (which I don't, or at least that's just one aspect of things, perhaps the most important aspect, I don't know yet), and that I'm not paying enough attention to the power games among the elite but now you're saying this power game is just a distraction... hmm. So let's just blame the red shirts who were trapped in the middle, then?

[rubl]

The April 10th violence seems planned indeed. By whom is unknown. No need to repeat some what you yourself describe as 'just rumours'. It distracts from the fact that UDD leaders have acknowledged a militant faction to have helped.

There seems to be substance in the renegade general Seh Daeng being involved with or without UDD leaders in the know.

Actually, to me this is fact as I trust the person who told me as he's close to some of those involved. But I can't prove it isn't just rumours, so I'm not going to present it as fact. I don't see why it distracts from the fact that UDD leaders acknowledged that a militant faction "helped" (in fact I don't think they "helped" at all, I think they got people killed unnecessarily and it was a power play for their own gain - entirely self-serving, absolutely nothing to do with democracy), I mean there was far too much evidence for them to deny it. I personally think Seh Daeng wasn't involved with April 10th, but can't give you any evidence for that. However, I've already made clear I think he was a dangerous lunatic who hindered the red cause more than helped it.

To suggest a few retired generals including k. Chavalit planned the April 10th massacre shifts blame from the UDD leaders to others who happened to be army although retired. The same army vilified for exchanging gunfire with unarmed protesters. That's the distraction.

Someone close to those involved told you, right. Rumour also has it they're not on Santa's list of 'nice boys', no presents this year. Don't know about you, may be an empty set.

Right, so it's a distraction to say that the military in general is a problem? Anyway, obviously I can't prove that it's true or even that someone told me this, could've just made it all up off the top of my head, of course. But if you believe that Thaksin has no supporters in the military (at very high levels) and some key players in the military hierarchy aren't angry with Prayuth & Burapha Phayak being given all the good stuff, then I feel you're distracted. Honestly, I've been told I'm delusional for thinking it's a "people's struggle" (which I don't, or at least that's just one aspect of things, perhaps the most important aspect, I don't know yet), and that I'm not paying enough attention to the power games among the elite but now you're saying this power game is just a distraction... hmm. So let's just blame the red shirts who were trapped in the middle, then?

Saying the army in general is a problem IS a distraction. The OP is about 5 suspects of grenade attacks arrested. Seemingly red-shirts, imagine. Those who were fired-up by months of PTV.

As for k. Thaksin having supporters in the army, that may be true (of of his brothers is a general), but has nothing to do with red-shirts. Even k. Thaksin has nothing to do with red-shirts some say.

Let's not blame the common red-shirts. They've been had by k. Thaksin, UDD leaders and others. Just watch some re-runs of red stage speeches and turn up the volume to get in the mood. Fill your bottle with petrol, burn your own house.

[Emptyset]

Saying the army in general is a problem IS a distraction. The OP is about 5 suspects of grenade attacks arrested. Seemingly red-shirts, imagine. Those who were fired-up by months of PTV.

As for k. Thaksin having supporters in the army, that may be true (of of his brothers is a general), but has nothing to do with red-shirts. Even k. Thaksin has nothing to do with red-shirts some say.

Let's not blame the common red-shirts. They've been had by k. Thaksin, UDD leaders and others. Just watch some re-runs of red stage speeches and turn up the volume to get in the mood. Fill your bottle with petrol, burn your own house.

"Saying the army in general is a problem IS a distraction." No - this is the crucial issue and why democracy is continually subverted. Yes, the suspects in grenade attacks are being arrested, which is definitely a good thing for all sides imo. But these people are confessing to attacks which happened before and after April 10, as far as I know. But not April 10th itself. I think most of the grenade attacks before April 10th were Seh Daeng's work, and the "men in black" involved after April 10th were his guys, or at least trained by him, but I'm making a distinction for April 10 itself.

As for your second paragraph, well, no, the fact that the army is split has nothing to do with ordinary red shirts, few of them consider the splits in the ruling class - they just see things as the common man vs the dictatorial amaat. Well, Chaisit is a lightweight, I don't believe he had much of a role at all. I suggest you look elsewhere on the blacklist for suspects, the guy I believe most responsible is named on it: http://www.nationmul...d-30129534.html

Yes, some ordinary grassroots lo-so red shirts did turn to violence. But to blame PTV, red shirt leaders and Thaksin wholly is far too simplistic imo. Seems you've not even attempted to consider things from their perspective.

[rubl]

Saying the army in general is a problem IS a distraction. The OP is about 5 suspects of grenade attacks arrested. Seemingly red-shirts, imagine. Those who were fired-up by months of PTV.

As for k. Thaksin having supporters in the army, that may be true (of of his brothers is a general), but has nothing to do with red-shirts. Even k. Thaksin has nothing to do with red-shirts some say.

Let's not blame the common red-shirts. They've been had by k. Thaksin, UDD leaders and others. Just watch some re-runs of red stage speeches and turn up the volume to get in the mood. Fill your bottle with petrol, burn your own house.

"Saying the army in general is a problem IS a distraction." No - this is the crucial issue and why democracy is continually subverted. Yes, the suspects in grenade attacks are being arrested, which is definitely a good thing for all sides imo. But these people are confessing to attacks which happened before and after April 10, as far as I know. But not April 10th itself. I think most of the grenade attacks before April 10th were Seh Daeng's work, and the "men in black" involved after April 10th were his guys, or at least trained by him, but I'm making a distinction for April 10 itself.

As for your second paragraph, well, no, the fact that the army is split has nothing to do with ordinary red shirts, few of them consider the splits in the ruling class - they just see things as the common man vs the dictatorial amaat. Well, Chaisit is a lightweight, I don't believe he had much of a role at all. I suggest you look elsewhere on the blacklist for suspects, the guy I believe most responsible is named on it: http://www.nationmul...d-30129534.html

Yes, some ordinary grassroots lo-so red shirts did turn to violence. But to blame PTV, red shirt leaders and Thaksin wholly is far too simplistic imo. Seems you've not even attempted to consider things from their perspective.

Your first paragraph jumps up and down. Are we still talking about red-shirts?

Second paragraph, mixing things again.

Third paragraph, 'their' perspective? I am more than willing to consider the perspective of the common red-shirts. They do have valid grievances. Unfortunately their case has been severally damaged by the k. Thaksin and his UDD henchmen leaders. Did you ever watch PTV ?

[Buchholz]

Pol Lt Gen Chaiya the Commissioner of Provincial Police Region 5 with the suspected bomber, Theersak Suwan

Chiang Mai bomber arrested

Chiang Mai police arrested a front line member of the Red Shirt group - who bombed four places in San Kamphaeng district, according to the Provincial Police Bureau, Region 5.

Commissioner of Provincial Police Region 5 Pol. Lt. Gen. Chaiya Siri-amphankul reported that Theerasak Suwan a 31 year old resident of Kheelek in Mae Rim had been arrested with a knife and the components to make more bombs.

CCTV video footage taken at bombing sites in San Kamphaeng between December 19 and 22 led the police to arrest Theerasak. Theerasak confessed to police that he had placed bombs in a rest room at the San Kamphaeng District office, at an orchard in Chaechang district and on a road leading to Chaechang village and finally in the restrooms at Wat Chaechang; the bombs damaged both the District Office and the Wat.

The suspect said that he used to take part in political demonstrations with the Red Shirt groups before but that he had not done this out of political motivation or that he had been ordered but to create disruption and chaos.

Police continue to investigate the background of the bombings. Pol. Lt Gen Chaiya added this was a serious issue for national security.

Chiang Mai Mail - January 1, 2011

[whybother]

The suspect said that he used to take part in political demonstrations with the Red Shirt groups before but that he had not done this out of political motivation or that he had been ordered but to create disruption and chaos.

So he just did it because he's a psychopath?

[Buchholz]

The suspect said that he used to take part in political demonstrations with the Red Shirt groups before but that he had not done this out of political motivation or that he had been ordered but to create disruption and chaos.

So he just did it because he's a psychopath?

well, there was this study conducted on them...

Most of the red-shirt supporters in jail are garbage collectors, homeless people, and the mentally ill who cannot seek legal help or find enough money for bail. The People’s Centre for Information (PCI) revealed its initial investigation on the April-May crackdowns yesterday.

It collected information about 169 red-shirt protesters who are now under detention in the provinces of Maha Sarakham, Ubon Ratchathani, Udon Thani, Khon Kaen, Mukdahan, Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai over charges of taking part in illegal gatherings as well as arson or terrorism.

PCI discovered that most of the detained red shirts could not find lawyers or enough money for bail. Most of the detainees are garbage collectors, homeless people, and people with mental health problems.

-- The Nation 2010-11-19

great shades, btw

[Buchholz]

Another one has been arrested, but this one is a shooter...

Alleged black-shirt man arrested by DSI

Investigators of the Department of Special Investigation have arrested a 'man in black' for having allegedly fired at troops at the Kokwua Intersection on April 10.

DSI Director-General Tharit Pengdit alleged that Manop Charnchangthong, 48, was one of men in black who fired at troops on April 10.

Tharit said Manop was arrested in Nonthburi Wednesday night. Tharit alleged that Manop also took away guns of troops and distributed them to other red-shirt guards.

He said Manop also took away guns of policemen when police tried to arrest red-shirt leader Arisman Pongruangrong at the SC Park Hotel on April 16.

-- The Nation 2011-01-20

[Buchholz]

Tharit said Manop was arrested in Nonthburi Wednesday night. Tharit alleged that Manop also took away guns of troops and distributed them to other red-shirt guards.

Manop's take on things at the time. He's the one wearing a black balaclava

The Nation - April 15, 2010

Manop told the press that on Saturday he was guarding the protest site at Rajprasong intersection when Natthawut and Arisman Pongreungrong decided that all the red shirts' strong men should move to the Phan Fa site. So, he joined them in the evening and was stationed at the school.

He added that he did odd jobs for a living and had never been trained in the military. He also said that since there were no other guards at the Satri Wittaya School, he single-handedly unarmed the soldiers marching past.

[Bagwan]

He added that he did odd jobs for a living and had never been trained in the military. He also said that since there were no other guards at the Satri Wittaya School, he single-handedly unarmed the soldiers marching past.

:jap: I don't know whether to laugh or cry. Does this guy wear his pants outside of his tights? Is this the return of Walter Mitty?

Note to Army generals :- Don't buy refurbished 30 year old tanks from the Swiss. Some black shirted civvy will only take them away from your lads. Why not give him a job and tell him to invade Cambodia?

[Buchholz]

Another Red-shirt Militant Nabbed

Special investigation officials have arrested another red-shirt supporter suspected of involvement in attacks on security troops during the crackdown on the political unrest in April and May last year.

The suspect has denied all charges against him.

Director-General of the Department of Special Investigation, or DSI, Tharit Pengdit, said Manop Charnchangthong was arrested in Nonthaburi's Bang Buathong district.

Tharit said investigators have obtained evidence showing that Manop was a member of a red-shirt guard team trained by Army Specialist Major-General Khattiya Sawasdipol, who was assassinated during the group's protests in May.

Thairt alleged the suspect took part in the protesters' armed clash with security troops during the failed crackdown at Kok Wua Intersection and robbed their firearms, including Tavor assault riffles which were then displayed on the rally stage and handed out to other guards for use against the authorities.

The DSI Chief added Manop was involved in the disruption of the attempt to arrest red-shirt hardliner Arisman Pongruangrong, who remains at large from the arrest warrant on terrorism charges.

Manop denied the charges, but admitted he had received five guns from other red-shirt guards who clashed with troops outside the Satriwittaya School and later displayed them on the rally stage.

The suspect also claimed he was not aware he had been issued arrest warrant and has resumed his normal life working as a garbage collector after the end of the protests.

The department will bring Manop to the Criminal Court tomorrow to get him remanded for further detention and will oppose his release on bail.

-- Tan Network 2011-01-20

[Buchholz]

The suspect also claimed he was not aware he had been issued arrest warrant and has resumed his normal life working as a garbage collector

Once again, one is reminded of the PCI study on Red Shirts done in November.

Most of the red-shirt supporters in jail are garbage collectors, homeless people, and the mentally ill who cannot seek legal help or find enough money for bail. The People’s Centre for Information (PCI) revealed its initial investigation on the April-May crackdowns yesterday.

PCI discovered that most of the detained red shirts could not find lawyers or enough money for bail. Most of the detainees are garbage collectors, homeless people, and people with mental health problems.

[Buchholz]

Manop was quoted during his arrest as saying he did not know how to use a firearm.

the earlier, widely-distributed photo of Manop