What To Do?

[youreavinalaff]

Looks like the TCT are sticking to their guns and soon everyone will need a Teaching Licence to teach here.

I don't want to get into a debate about whether they are right or wrong. I also don't wish to debate about teaching with or with out a degree.

The truth is that I have been teaching here for a long time without a degree. I live out in the sticks so up until now it has never really been a problem.

It would appear that I do now need to study. I want to study. I want to take all the tests required to get a TL.

The problem is that I have family here. I need to be here. I need to work here. I need to study here.

I have looked at several online courses. Some look pretty good but still require trips abroad to take exams. This would not be financially viable.

The few courses available in Thailand are also not viable because of where I live. I would not be able to attend weekend classes week in week out.

Rightly or wrongly I have put myself in this awkward situation.I would like some help please.

Are there any other people in this situation? What are the popular online programs? Are there any online programs that are 100 per cent on line? Are the TCT really going to go through with all of this?

Thanks in advance for your comments.

[Scott]

First, there are online courses which are entirely online, there are also extension courses. Hopefully some posters will guide you in the right direction.

[Wavefloater]

"...everyone will need a Teaching Licence to teach here."

I was wondering if the OP could give his source for this information. A friend of mine teaches at a university and has never required a TL. I just phoned her to let her know about what was posted, and she was not aware of any changes in this law. Actually, she told me that she has just signed a new employment contact and no one mentioned any requirement for her to get a TL.

[youreavinalaff]

I apologise for not refering to the University teachers not needing a TL. My main reason for writing was the need for qualifications.

Sorry for causing any confusion.

[Scott]

Teachers at Universities do not need a Teacher's License. I think the OP is referring only to those for whom the licensing requirements apply.

[TheOnceler]

Firstly, I assume from your username that you're British, so you may find that what I say doesn't apply, but here goes...

I'm a Canadian who is in pretty much exactly the same situation as you. I have been working for a school in Thailand for many years - without the proper qualifications. I started studying for my degree with Canada's version of the Open University (called Athabasca University) about 4 years ago. All books and materials are sent to me by DHL courier, and all my assignments are submitted to the professors by e-mail. It's fairly straightforward. When it comes to exams, I have had to arrange an invigilator here in Thailand (this can be someone in the education business here, like a school principal, but the university checks their credentials first) or I've written exams at the Canadian embassy itself. I haven't ever had to travel outside the country. Whether or not the OU in Britain does it this way, I don't know. Maybe there are other schools who do, you need to check it out.

Anyway, the result is that I'm able to study from here for a legitimate, recognized degree. The only real problem is that between work and family, I don't do nearly as many courses as I would like, so it's taking me ages (remember, I said I started 4 years ago...) Maybe you'd be able to devote more time to it, I don't know. Also, it isn't cheap. The total cost for the degree will be somewhere around the $15,000 mark, but if if you are intent on staying and working legally, well... it suits me, anyway.

I'm sure there are other options for you to consider, but that's my story, for what it's worth.

[aidenai]

Are the TCT really going to go through with all of this?

The whole TCT debacle started when The Teachers' Council of Thailand issued the requirements for teaching at certain institutes back in June 2006. Somewhere in 2007 the teachers community in Thailand became aware of the whole thing. Many teachers predicted a slow dead of the rules and the TCT. Unfortunately, the current reports from teachers at the several teacher forums show the opposite. That it, the number of test takers of the TCT Knowledge Tests seems to be increasing. As no teacher likes to do the tests as leisure, I presume that the forces to do so stem from the teacher's employer, Immigration Office or Labour Office.

[aidenai]

Forgot to write. Search at this forum to find loads of information about the TCT and its history.

[Firelily]

I continue to be totally puzzled. I am not a university teacher. I have a valid work permit and visa, recently extended. I still do not have a teaching license, and what's more, not even a waiver. I am always told that the application for the license was submitted over 2 years ago and there is nothing to be done but wait. All my colleagues are in the same position as far as we are aware.

I sincerely hope the whole thing won't be crashing down on us all of a sudden because the clerks have made a mistake.

[Scott]

And I know teachers who will be coming up on their 3rd waiver in the next several months and there has never been a word said to them about taking any exams. Waiver granted, non-B's renewed, Work Permit granted.

[youreavinalaff]

Firstly thank you TheOnceler for your thoughts. The OU in the UK don't appear to be as helpful as their Canadian counterparts.

I was hoping this thread might turn into a "I study here" or "I studied there" type thread. Instead it has become a discussion about what the TCT are thinking. I don't think we will ever know the answer to that.

Is there anyone out there that can recommend a good online course?

hanks

[Phatcharanan]

Google the University of London and/or University of Leicester. They have complete online courses and upon graduation, there is no mention in the transcripts of any 'online element'.

http://www.londoninternational.ac.uk/prospective_students/listing/index.shtml#B

http://www2.le.ac.uk/study/ways/distance

Good luck

[Shipwreck]

I'll have to second the University of London recommendation.

I have a friend without a degree who is doing his B.A. from them via a correspondence course. I'm not really sure why he isn't doing it online (perhaps cheaper?) - anyways, he's getting it done and his family and his future will be better off for it.

[JSixpack]

Can you go to one of the Thai open universities like Ramkaemhaeng? The latter I believe offers a degree in English Lit. You only have go to campus for registration and for exams.

[PlanetX]

Just because your british doesnt mean you have to get a british degree

In the US there are programs called CLEP and DANTES - you test out of a majority of subjects and can do the rest of the classes online through many online programs

Clep exams

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/exams.html

DANTES exams (former program for US Military - now open to all)

http://www.dantes.doded.mil/dantes_web/examinations/dsst.htm

There is a testing site in Bangkok

http://apps.collegeboard.com/cbsearch_clep/searchCLEPTestCenter.jsp

The second step is to choose an online program that will allow as many CLEP transfer credits as possible

Webster University Thailand allows some (20+ credits) and has a campus in Hua Hin and Bangkok - it is fully accredited

http://www.webster.ac.th/

There is a website called 'BA in 4 weeks" it takes you step by step how to take advantage of testing out and online schools

http://bain4weeks.com/

The following Universities allow you to combine online classes and maximum testing out courses

http://www.charteroak.edu/

https://www.excelsior.edu/

http://www.tesc.edu/

The tests only require 50% to receive credit so it becomes the quickest, cheapest and most efficient way to quickly amass credits and complete a BA

The tests cost around $80-90 US Dollars per test

I tested out of over 70+ credits during my BA and went on to complete 2 Masters and a PhD at prestigious institutions so this is by no means a diploma mill option

Good Luck!

[ozzieovaseas]

Firstly, I assume from your username that you're British, so you may find that what I say doesn't apply, but here goes...

I'm a Canadian who is in pretty much exactly the same situation as you. I have been working for a school in Thailand for many years - without the proper qualifications. I started studying for my degree with Canada's version of the Open University (called Athabasca University) about 4 years ago. All books and materials are sent to me by DHL courier, and all my assignments are submitted to the professors by e-mail. It's fairly straightforward. When it comes to exams, I have had to arrange an invigilator here in Thailand (this can be someone in the education business here, like a school principal, but the university checks their credentials first) or I've written exams at the Canadian embassy itself. I haven't ever had to travel outside the country. Whether or not the OU in Britain does it this way, I don't know. Maybe there are other schools who do, you need to check it out.

Anyway, the result is that I'm able to study from here for a legitimate, recognized degree. The only real problem is that between work and family, I don't do nearly as many courses as I would like, so it's taking me ages (remember, I said I started 4 years ago...) Maybe you'd be able to devote more time to it, I don't know. Also, it isn't cheap. The total cost for the degree will be somewhere around the $15,000 mark, but if if you are intent on staying and working legally, well... it suits me, anyway.

I'm sure there are other options for you to consider, but that's my story, for what it's worth.

Thanks for posting this, it puts things into perspective for me anyway.

I have thought about these issues before as i also have considered teaching but do not have a degree.

My only thoughts are who in their right mind would fork out US$15k with the ultimate objective of working in Thailand as a teacher, for baht30k per month??

how long would you have to work in Thailand to pay off this debt?

More realistically, if you are in the unenviable position of having to work for daily expenses now, how in the heck are you supposed to pay for a degree or do further study while being on a teachers salary in Thailand?

My thoughts are you can live long time in Thailand for 15k, why bother?

rley if there is a law change or swing in this direction there will be absolutely no farang teachers here

Edited November 27, 2010 by ozzieovaseas

[Scott]

For many people the change in the regulations presents them with the problem of justifying the cost of continuing their education versus the financial rewards and payback for a rather sizable outlay of money.

If you are young enough, it's probably a good investment, especially if you can continue to work while completing your degree.

I know a number of teachers in this position and I have advised those who are in their 20's & 30's to get themselves legal ASAP. Especially, if they plan on staying in Thailand and plan on teaching.

For some of the over 40 teachers, it really depends on their personal circumstances.

[Xangsamhua]

OP, if you're British I would think it is cheaper for you to study through a UK university than one overseas; however, you may be interested in having a look at the Open Universities Australia site and contacting them for further information. They do have some online Education courses available from fully accredited universities.

http://www.open.edu....s-and-units/edu

A degree testamur and transcript from a recognised university does not, in my experience, have anything on it to indicate that the degree has been undertaken online (or by any other mode for that matter). An online degree from a respectable university is an entirely different kettle of fish from something acquired from an "online university".

[JSixpack]

Some very helpful posts above, particularly by PlanetX.

However, if cost is a major consideration, the Thai open university approach is absurdly cheap even compared to an online program from the USA or UK. According to my Thai source, the English program at RU is doable by a native English speaker. Suggest you drop by and check out all the possibilities.

Sixpack out.

[thaicbr]

Can you go to one of the Thai open universities like Ramkaemhaeng? The latter I believe offers a degree in English Lit. You only have go to campus for registration and for exams.

BUT if its not an ED degree then it does not count. SO be careful. 

[TheOnceler]

Firstly, I assume from your username that you're British, so you may find that what I say doesn't apply, but here goes...

I'm a Canadian who is in pretty much exactly the same situation as you. I have been working for a school in Thailand for many years - without the proper qualifications. I started studying for my degree with Canada's version of the Open University (called Athabasca University) about 4 years ago. All books and materials are sent to me by DHL courier, and all my assignments are submitted to the professors by e-mail. It's fairly straightforward. When it comes to exams, I have had to arrange an invigilator here in Thailand (this can be someone in the education business here, like a school principal, but the university checks their credentials first) or I've written exams at the Canadian embassy itself. I haven't ever had to travel outside the country. Whether or not the OU in Britain does it this way, I don't know. Maybe there are other schools who do, you need to check it out.

Anyway, the result is that I'm able to study from here for a legitimate, recognized degree. The only real problem is that between work and family, I don't do nearly as many courses as I would like, so it's taking me ages (remember, I said I started 4 years ago...) Maybe you'd be able to devote more time to it, I don't know. Also, it isn't cheap. The total cost for the degree will be somewhere around the $15,000 mark, but if if you are intent on staying and working legally, well... it suits me, anyway.

I'm sure there are other options for you to consider, but that's my story, for what it's worth.

Thanks for posting this, it puts things into perspective for me anyway.

I have thought about these issues before as i also have considered teaching but do not have a degree.

My only thoughts are who in their right mind would fork out US$15k with the ultimate objective of working in Thailand as a teacher, for baht30k per month??

how long would you have to work in Thailand to pay off this debt?

More realistically, if you are in the unenviable position of having to work for daily expenses now, how in the heck are you supposed to pay for a degree or do further study while being on a teachers salary in Thailand?

My thoughts are you can live long time in Thailand for 15k, why bother?

rley if there is a law change or swing in this direction there will be absolutely no farang teachers here

Fair one, I guess I should have included that I actually intend to leave Thailand within a certain timeframe, and therefore, paying for and studying a western degree is logical for me.

Were I staying here indefinately, then yes, I agree that it would seem a waste.

[puchooay]

Was going to start a new thread then I found this one.

The phrase "Accredited University" really does seem to be a grey area.

I spent the long weekend with some old collegues in Bangkok.

One of the guys was proudly showing off his Teacher Licence that he had obtained using a BA Education from Almeda University.

Quick "google" check and it seems to be a diploma mill.

Did the TCT miss it? Was he lucky? Anyone else seen this?

Certainly would make a mockery of those of us currently spending time and money studying to get qualified.

[Scott]

I am curious as to what kind of TL the person had--there is a substitute and temporary TL (?) and the regular license. There is also a waiver. Was the degree in Education?

As far as the school is concerned, I have interviewed one person who presented a degree from that school. He might have gotten a job, but before verifying the degree, I had checked the school and saw that it was unaccredited, so it was a no-go on my part. I didn't want to take the chance with the MOE.

I only checked the school because sometimes there is an Alumni Association which can verify that person X graduated in a certain year. This is especially true if the school isn't under the National Clearinghouse (US) and you have to write to the school and wait for the verification.

Prior to the tightening of regulations in the past few years, I do know it was pretty easy for people who attended 'Bible' Colleges to get the necessary paperwork. I very much doubt that some of those schools were accredited.

So, it would be my belief that he slipped through the cracks.

[Xangsamhua]

I am curious as to what kind of TL the person had--there is a substitute and temporary TL (?) and the regular license. There is also a waiver. Was the degree in Education?

As far as the school is concerned, I have interviewed one person who presented a degree from that school. He might have gotten a job, but before verifying the degree, I had checked the school and saw that it was unaccredited, so it was a no-go on my part. I didn't want to take the chance with the MOE.

I only checked the school because sometimes there is an Alumni Association which can verify that person X graduated in a certain year. This is especially true if the school isn't under the National Clearinghouse (US) and you have to write to the school and wait for the verification.

Prior to the tightening of regulations in the past few years, I do know it was pretty easy for people who attended 'Bible' Colleges to get the necessary paperwork. I very much doubt that some of those schools were accredited.

So, it would be my belief that he slipped through the cracks.

1. My understanding is that a few years ago the life experience degrees were accepted, but that was later stopped. A life experience degree that states clearly, even if in small print, what it is (i.e. a "degree" granted on "life experience") on the diploma/testamur is not illegal; it's just unacceptable. If someone presented it and it was accepted, nothing illegal has been done (though it may be sleight of hand in the circumstances).

2. I think some Bible Colleges (e.g. Baptist) are legitimate and accepted by the MoE. I know a couple of graduates from Bible College in the Philippines; they are very bright, have excellent English and are doing well in their teaching.

[Scott]

I am not questioning the education at Bible Schools, only the accreditation of the schools, which is the main issue.

I also don't particularly care if it's a life experience degree or not, if an accredited University were to grant one, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I don't know if there are any schools that do that.

I know some Universities that would give you credit for having worked in a field for a number of years, if you were pursuing a degree in that field. This was for 'mature' students who decided to complete their education.

I would have trouble knowingly submitting a degree to a school that I know is not accredited. Primarily because I am breaking a law.

My concern, in this regard, is compliance with the regulations. Not a judgment for or against anyone in particular.

I have often wondered, theoretically, what would happen if someone showed up with an honorary degree awarded by a University.

[Rumpole]

Just because your british doesnt mean you have to get a british degree

In the US there are programs called CLEP and DANTES - you test out of a majority of subjects and can do the rest of the classes online through many online programs

Clep exams

http://www.collegeboard.com/student/testing/clep/exams.html

DANTES exams (former program for US Military - now open to all)

http://www.dantes.doded.mil/dantes_web/examinations/dsst.htm

There is a testing site in Bangkok

http://apps.collegeboard.com/cbsearch_clep/searchCLEPTestCenter.jsp

The second step is to choose an online program that will allow as many CLEP transfer credits as possible

Webster University Thailand allows some (20+ credits) and has a campus in Hua Hin and Bangkok - it is fully accredited

http://www.webster.ac.th/

There is a website called 'BA in 4 weeks" it takes you step by step how to take advantage of testing out and online schools

http://bain4weeks.com/

The following Universities allow you to combine online classes and maximum testing out courses

http://www.charteroak.edu/

https://www.excelsior.edu/

http://www.tesc.edu/

The tests only require 50% to receive credit so it becomes the quickest, cheapest and most efficient way to quickly amass credits and complete a BA

The tests cost around $80-90 US Dollars per test

I tested out of over 70+ credits during my BA and went on to complete 2 Masters and a PhD at prestigious institutions so this is by no means a diploma mill option

Good Luck!

Good post, Planet X. Excellent suggestions and practical advice for 'mature' students seeking to obtain a bachelor's relatively cheaply and speedily. I remember posting very similar advice a few years ago and being accused of posting links to 'diploma mills'.

Another moderately-priced option which has not yet been mentioned is UNISA - the University of South Africa. (You don't have to be a South African citizen or resident to apply). They were one of the pioneers in distance education and still offer one of the widest range of DL programmes of any legitametly accredited institution. They are held in fairly high regard, too. The only real disadvantage is that their admission procedures tend to be very bureaucratic and their admin staff slow to respond to queries etc. Still, worth a look for those for whom cost is a serious consideration.

Edited December 13, 2010 by Rumpole

[Xangsamhua]

I am not questioning the education at Bible Schools, only the accreditation of the schools, which is the main issue.

I also don't particularly care if it's a life experience degree or not, if an accredited University were to grant one, I wouldn't have a problem with it, but I don't know if there are any schools that do that.

I know some Universities that would give you credit for having worked in a field for a number of years, if you were pursuing a degree in that field. This was for 'mature' students who decided to complete their education.

I would have trouble knowingly submitting a degree to a school that I know is not accredited. Primarily because I am breaking a law.

My concern, in this regard, is compliance with the regulations. Not a judgment for or against anyone in particular.

I have often wondered, theoretically, what would happen if someone showed up with an honorary degree awarded by a University.

I doubt very much that an accredited university would grant a "life experience" degree unless it were an honorary doctorate. I, too, wonder how that would be looked upon.